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[Goody]

I really hope this all means we'll see more downloadable PSP titles. I love my Go, but I'm missing a few UMD only games.

 

[Agent X]

Because we live in a different world now. When I go from an iPhone 3GS to an iPhone 4, I don't have to give up everything I've purchased until then even if the iPhone 4 can run more powerful software that isn't usable on older hardware.

The era of game consoles completely wiping the slate every time needs to come to an end.

I agree with what you've said, but fortunately the Vita doesn't completely wipe the slate. I'm still comforted in knowing that I'll at least be able to carry over my downloadable games from the old one to the new one. I understand that UMD games won't carry over the same way, and that's disappointing, but ever since January when the new system (then called NGP) was revealed and didn't have a UMD drive, I've been able to deal with it.

 

[Michan]

I'm pretty sure the press release only says that to encourage people to be honest with the transfer program. I've never heard of any way to uniquely identify pressed UMDs, and have heard several times from people who know the system pretty well that it's simply impossible. Sony's basically saying "please don't abuse this".

They surely wouldn't "trust" people not to abuse it and say something it isn't.

It's really not impossible. It really, really isn't. It's so easy to create an increment and make it act as an identifier. Here, I'll do it now.

inc = 1;
while() {
write_disc();
++inc;
}

You can mix it up a little by throwing a randomly-generated salt in there and running this in the machines. This is the most basic of basic things in the whole of computing.

 

[androvsky]

This man knows how to think sharply.

You love the impossible solutions. Remember, reauthenticating with PSP still means easy piracy, even if you do it every two weeks (which would suck if your authentication ran out while on vacation).

 

[mollipen]

You can use digital licenses of PSP games you've bought on PSN on the Vita. This is a physical copy vs digital license issue.

Specifically in the case of the PSP and Vita, sure, due to the wacky format that was UMD.

The bigger point is that the trend of consoles not fully supporting the previous generation's content needs to come to an end. If a company develops a piece of hardware that is so specialized and unique that it cannot be used as the basis for, or part of, the next generation of consoles, that hardware needs to not exist. First you had PC gaming that allowed for older games to move with you through better hardware, and now you have the iOS platform doing the same for games.

The more examples customers get for having that security of their purchases being usable on future hardware, (hopefully) the less they'll tolerate it from other platforms.

The only way this is even remotely possible with consumer electronics is if it's 100% digital.

There is no reason due to physical media that my PS3 couldn't play all previous generations of PlayStation content. There's no reason the Xbox 360 can't play Xbox content. The only time this is an actual factor is when non-standardize formats are used. Even then, there's no reason that Nintendo's next handheld could not play both DS and 3DS carts.

In the case of digital content, however, there really is no excuse. So as a consumer, I am fully correct in expecting that all of my XBLA and PSN content should transfer over to the next generations of hardware, and if they don't, then Sony and/or Microsoft have failed me.

 

[androvsky]

They surely wouldn't "trust" people not to abuse it and say something it isn't.

It's really not impossible. It really, really isn't. It's so easy to create an increment and make it act as an identifier. Here, I'll do it now.

inc = 1;
while() {
write_disc();
++inc;
}

You can mix it up a little by throwing a randomly-generated salt in there and running this in the machines. This is the most basic of basic things in the whole of computing.

Wait, do you still think retail UMDs are burned?

 

[Cipherr]

I agree with what you've said, but fortunately the Vita doesn't completely wipe the slate. I'm still comforted in knowing that I'll at least be able to carry over my downloadable games from the old one to the new one.

And noone will fault you for feeling that way. Do others a favor and not fault them for not being happy about the 200+ million UMD's in the wild sold at retail that flat out dont work in Vita. Lack of BC is going to be something of a thorn in peoples sides these days. There is no 'but, but... but' that will change that.

 

[Michan]

You love the impossible solutions. Remember, reauthenticating with PSP still means easy piracy, even if you do it every two weeks (which would suck if your authentication ran out while on vacation).

He was building upon other solutions. This, combined with a server check, would be infinitely more secure than installing to a HDD.

And two weeks is arbitrary. It could be every 3 months, 2 days, every Sunday morning, or whatever. I think iPhone becomes a developer unit for 3 months on trust before you need to reauthenticate it again.

Wait, do you still think retail UMDs are burned?

Anybody who does not put some kind of identifier on something like this from the very beginning is an idiot and deserves to be fired.

 

[firehawk12]

Specifically in the case of the PSP and Vita, sure, due to the wacky format that was UMD.

The bigger point is that the trend of consoles not fully supporting the previous generation's content needs to come to an end. If a company develops a piece of hardware that is so specialized and unique that it cannot be used as the basis for, or part of, the next generation of consoles, that hardware needs to not exist. First you had PC gaming that allowed for older games to move with you through better hardware, and now you have the iOS platform doing the same for games.

The more examples customers get for having that security of their purchases being usable on future hardware, (hopefully) the less they'll tolerate it from other platforms.

Well, the problem here is the simple shift in physical format. You can't play GBA games in a 3DS after all. I agree that format compatibility should be a priority, but there's no guarantee that the next Nintendo handheld will support 3DS carts or that the Vita 2 will support Vita carts, especially if the next handhelds go completely digital.

At this point, any time you buy a cart, you are gambling on the future of that particular physical medium.

 

[mollipen]

Well, the problem here is the simple shift in physical format. You can't play GBA games in a 3DS after all. I agree that format compatibility should be a priority, but there's no guarantee that the next Nintendo handheld will support 3DS carts or that the Vita 2 will support Vita carts, especially if the next handhelds go completely digital.

At this point, any time you buy a cart, you are gambling on the future of that particular physical medium.

If either of those next platforms use physical media, then use the same style carts. Problem solved! I totally understand why GBA -> DS didn't work that way, because GBA games were stupid huge. At this point, however, the physical media is no longer dictating the design and size of the hardware it'll be played on.

 

[djplaeskool]

In the case of digital content, however, there really is no excuse. So as a consumer, I am fully correct in expecting that all of my XBLA and PSN content should transfer over to the next generations of hardware, and if they don't, then Sony and/or Microsoft have failed me.

Oh, definitely in agreement there, and from the looks of it, most camps are doing a good job keeping digital content accessible. I'm very interested to see where Sony goes with the PS Suite and Playstation certification on third-party devices. Universal access to compatible content across all compatible devices is a grand goal.

 

[Jomjom]

Just saw information that there will be a way for Sony to ensure that each UMD can only be registered once. This would be great so that people don't abuse this, but how the heck can this even be done?

 

[androvsky]

Anybody who does not put some kind of identifier on something like this from the very beginning is an idiot and deserves to be fired.

They are mass-produced pressed discs. Putting unique identifiers on every disc adds to the cost, which would've been pointless and probably very expensive back in 2004.

As far as I know, the only pressed optical discs with unique identifiers are blu-rays with managed copy. Feel free to cite any others.

edit: probably HD-DVD and DIVX too. Not CDs or DVDs afaik though.

 

[Huff]

If everything went digital all of us with huge PS360 game collections will be fucked. It'll happen eventually, just hopefully not with this next generation.

Whenever it happens, we are going to be in a situation similar to this. Consider this like a practice run.

 

[jcm]

Wait, do you still think retail UMDs are burned?

I don't know about UMDs, but BRs can have unique disc identifiers. It's called the Pre-recorded Media Serial Number, and it's stored in the BCA.

I think it gets cut into the disc after it has been pressed from the master.

 

[XOMTOR]

This man knows how to think sharply.

Thanks Michan. Unfortunately it doesn't happen very often. *grabs dunce hat and returns to corner*

 

[Agent X]

And noone will fault you for feeling that way. Do others a favor and not fault them for not being happy about the 200+ million UMD's in the wild sold at retail that flat out dont work in Vita. Lack of BC is going to be something of a thorn in peoples sides these days. There is no 'but, but... but' that will change that.

I don't have a problem with that, and I myself even said (in the same post that you quoted) that it's disappointing that UMD games cannot be carried over the same way.

The point is, this is old news. People who are complaining about this today in this thread should have demonstrated their outrage back in January when the system was revealed and didn't have a UMD drive. Or they should have complained when Sony released the PSP Go two years ago. Maybe they did complain at the time, and maybe they didn't. But it's water under the bridge now.

I don't think very many people out there are expecting the PS Vita to play UMD discs. That's probably part of the reason why they chose the Vita name, rather than "PSP2".

What was announced today was an accomodation for people who have UMD games. They'll now have the opportunity to purchase downloadable versions of those games at discounted prices so that they can have a copy for their Vita. This solution is not "ideal" and it's not "free", but no matter how you slice it, this is a step forward and better than what we had just a day ago.

 

[Shig]

I don't have a problem with that, and I myself even said (in the same post that you quoted) that it's disappointing that UMD games cannot be carried over the same way.

The point is, this is old news. People who are complaining about this today in this thread should have demonstrated their outrage back in January when the system was revealed and didn't have a UMD drive. Or they should have complained when Sony released the PSP Go two years ago. Maybe they did complain at the time, and maybe they didn't. But it's water under the bridge now.

I don't think very many people out there are expecting the PS Vita to play UMD discs. That's probably part of the reason why they chose the Vita name, rather than "PSP2".

What was announced today was an accomodation for people who have UMD games. They'll now have the opportunity to purchase downloadable versions of those games at discounted prices so that they can have a copy for their Vita. This solution is not "ideal" and it's not "free", but no matter how you slice it, this is a step forward and better than what we had just a day ago.

Well said.

 

[lowrider007]

Because we live in a different world now. When I go from an iPhone 3GS to an iPhone 4, I don't have to give up everything I've purchased until then even if the iPhone 4 can run more powerful software that isn't usable on older hardware.

The era of game consoles completely wiping the slate every time needs to come to an end.

That's becuase going the 3gs to ip4 your not moving from a hard format to a digitaly downloaded format, which is why going from a pspGo to a Vita is no problem.

 

[Quixzlizx]

If either of those next platforms use physical media, then use the same style carts. Problem solved! I totally understand why GBA -> DS didn't work that way, because GBA games were stupid huge. At this point, however, the physical media is no longer dictating the design and size of the hardware it'll be played on.

In this particular instance, it absolutely is the case. I'd agree with you concerning the next round of home consoles, however.

 

[Dunan]

He was building upon other solutions. This, combined with a server check, would be infinitely more secure than installing to a HDD.

And two weeks is arbitrary. It could be every 3 months, 2 days, every Sunday morning, or whatever. I think iPhone becomes a developer unit for 3 months on trust before you need to reauthenticate it again.

Given the frequency with which people are willing to sit and wait while their PS3s install yet another system update, without which you're temporarily barred from playing games, I can see people being OK with doing that reauthentication every few months. Ideally it would be a one-time thing but I'm willing to reauthenticate if it's what makes UMD transfers possible.

As someone with a lot of UMDs, and who knows well that Sony products aren't exactly famous for longevity these days, I'd like to have assurance that I can still enjoy them five or ten or fifty years from now.

Saying that you can just play them on your old PSP isn't much of a solution if the PSP is out of production.

 

[Demigod Mac]

Prices like these seem like they're assuming you'll copy a game to the Vita and then sell or give away the UMD copy.

 

[Curufinwe]

Prices like these seem like they're assuming you'll copy a game to the Vita and then sell or give away the UMD copy.

That would make more sense than paying money to get a PSP game on your Vita and then still playing it on your PSP.