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[nbthedude]

It's a bit presumptuous to assume that other people are biased based on your personal preferences, no?

Perhaps. But it's also presumptuous to assume that friendships don't impact perspectives. But that's a different topic.

I was talking specifically about those precise criticism Tom Chick brings up. Those criticism are the exact kind of thing I find most annoying in games. If someone offers a response or a debunking of them, I'm willing to hear out that perspective too.

 

[Canis lupus]

Any digital purchases you made on PSN last gen are stuck on PS3 hardware.

This game isn't coming out on PS3. The successor of the PS4 is likely never gonna return to the Cell or PowerPC architecture. It's safe to say that after seeing the benefits it's all x86 from now on. And thus, this game will be backwards compatible on PS5, PS6 etc.

 

[Jackbooted]

Nice to see lots of good reviews and I can totally appreciate that Tom Chick review too. Will probably wind up getting this on PC when a sale comes through. Perhaps I'm just cheap but I'm finding it hard to pay $20 for a pure SP game that I'll probably only go through once in a few hours. Loved Bastion though...decisions decisions.

 

[dLMN8R]

This thread is turning a bit ugly

I suggest we all take a minute to breathe and just talk about how the game is being very well received!



For those not aware, that is equivalent to 60 seconds, or 60 mississippis. It's not really a long while.

In a review thread it's nice to talk about reviews. Especially those that point things out that other reviews might not.

Even if you disagree with them! Or, having not actually played the game, think you'll disagree with!


Don't get so insecure with your own opinions and expectations that you let a bad review make you worried.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

Didn't expect so many glowing reviews, congrats to Supergiant.

Tom Chick's review reads as a combination of legitimately irritating design choices and too lazy to RTFM stuff. Always enjoy reading his reviews, but this is one of his reviews where I'm actually inclined to think he lost interest and/or stopped trying to improve once he realized he really disliked the combat. And that's fine, but it leaves me unsure whether some of these are as good criticisms as they are presented.

 

[Instro]

I wonder if this will be as boring as Bastion.

I've been thinking the same.

 

[Pimpwerx]

So the first review out was also disproportionately the worst?

Yeah...I'd say that dude is an attention whore. I'll wait to see what GAF thinks, but I was already set on this purchase. I can't wait to get this later in the week. PEACE.

 

[Opiate]

Can someone explain the mechanics of this game to me? Mechanically, what games can it be compared to?

 

[hawk2025]

In a review thread it's nice to talk about reviews. Especially those that point things out that other reviews might not.

Even if you disagree with them! Or, having not actually played the game, think you'll disagree with!


Don't get so insecure with your own opinions and expectations that you let a bad review make you worried.

I... Agree?

Have you confused me with someone else?

 

[Cess007]

Names you’ve never heard waft into the game and suddenly one of them is important and you have no idea why.

Hmm Sounds like one of the problems i had with ALBTW, yet lots of people didn't seems to care much about that :/
Wish there was a demo so i can try it out before buying it.

 

[nbthedude]

Didn't expect so many glowing reviews, congrats to Supergiant.

Tom Chick's review reads as a combination of legitimately irritating design choices and too lazy to RTFM stuff.

It is possibly just me, but I don't want to read long form text in a game and I have a PhD in literature. It is irritating and breaks the flow of games. Short, impactful bits, sure. Dark Souls is a perfect example of good story telling in my opinion because the item descriptions themselves help establish the world in very brief but effective ways. Elaborate backstories told in walls of text is always bad in my opinion in a medium that has "video" as part of it's key descriptor. It's like a movie that relies on narration heavily to explain the plot.

But sticking terminals in your game that explain a complicated story in long passages of text? That sounds like the absolute worst way to approach in game narrative.

 

[codhand]

i think maybe he went overboard on liking Bastion which was a solid 8/10 game for me, with a great ending.

 

[Grief.exe]

 

[Zeliard]

It is possibly just me, but I don't want to read long form text in a game and I have a PhD in literature. It is irritating and breaks the flow of games. Short, impactful bits, sure. Dark Souls is a perfect example of good story telling in my opinion because the item descriptions themselves help establish the world in very brief but effective ways. Elaborate backstories told in walls of text is always bad in my opinion in a medium that has "video" as part of it's key descriptor. It's like a movie that relies on narration heavily to explain the plot.

But sticking terminals in your game that explain a complicated story in long passages of text? That sounds like the absolute worst way to approach in game narrative.

It's a fair criticism I don't personally don't mind reams of text in games so long as they're actually well-written, which they rarely are.

My favorite game of all-time is Planescape: Torment, after all. And I recall Greg Kasavin being a pretty big fan of that game as well.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

Can someone explain the mechanics of this game to me? Mechanically, what games can it be compared to?

Fallout 3's VAT system as a 2D game. So kind of like Parasite Eve 1 or Vagrant Story.

Basically in combat, you run around and fight things in typical Action/RPG fashion but you also have a meter that fills up which you can use to pause time and program a series of crazy combos with.

 

[B E N K E]

Why so low?

I felt the narrative was somewhat "flat", not a lot of highs and lows and no real twists, just a steady trek. That and it takes a little too long to get into the combat mechanics. It's minor flaws really and some that others may not care about. But yeah, it's an 8 which is great in my book - recommended.

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

It is possibly just me, but I don't want to read long form text in a game and I have a PhD in literature. It is irritating and breaks the flow of games. Short, impactful bits, sure. Dark Souls is a perfect example of good story telling in my opinion because the item descriptions themselves help establish the world in very brief but effective ways. Elaborate backstories told in walls of text is always bad in my opinion in a medium that has "video" as part of it's key descriptor. It's like a movie that relies on narration heavily to explain the plot.

But sticking terminals in your game that explain a complicated story in long passages of text? That sounds like the absolute worst way to approach in game narrative.

I'd say the most text I've seen at once from a terminal was a paragraph and an extra sentence. The character bios get more detailed though I don't know just how much more due to there being gates on how much info you get at once.

 

[pharmboy044]

I felt the narrative was somewhat "flat", not a lot of highs and lows and no real twists, just a steady trek. That and it takes a little too long to get into the combat mechanics. It's minor flaws really and some that others may not care about. But yeah, it's an 8 which is great in my book - recommended.

Don't take him seriously. 8 is a great score.

 

[Deleted member 752119]

So you're just going to take his word for it instead of trying it yourself?

I understand we need filters, but maybe you wouldn't agree with him if you tried it.

Just bugs me when someone quotes a single opinion and says "there, no way am I playing this now! It's obviously terrible because this one person said so!".

To be fair there's no demo and being a digital game it can't be rented. $20 is a lot to take a chance on for someone who thinks it hits some of their biggest gaming pet peeves based on reviews.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

It is possibly just me, but I don't want to read long form text in a game and I have a PhD in literature. It is irritating and breaks the flow of games. Short, impactful bits, sure. Dark Souls is a perfect example of good story telling in my opinion because the item descriptions themselves help establish the world in very brief but effective ways. Elaborate backstories told in walls of text is always bad in my opinion in a medium that has "video" as part of it's key descriptor. It's like a movie that relies on narration heavily to explain the plot.

I don't think there's one good way to tell a story in a game, and frankly I don't really care as long as the game part is the foundation. I didn't have a problem at all with the optional walls of text in Lost Odyssey for example, and I also think just dropping hints in item descriptions in Dark Souls is a great way as well.

That said, I've still not played Bastion because I found the narration impossibly distracting and annoying from just watching videos, and became worried playing the game would be like being forced to play through someone else's roleplaying youtube Let's Play.

But sticking terminals in your game that explain a complicated story in long passages of text? That sounds like the absolute worst way to approach in game narrative.

Sounds like audio logs to me. The best of course being the ones in South Park:TSOT.

 

[dreamer3kx]

Can someone explain the mechanics of this game to me? Mechanically, what games can it be compared to?

Just from quick videos Ive seen it looks similar Vagrant Story's combat.

 

[Fushichou187]

Can someone explain the mechanics of this game to me? Mechanically, what games can it be compared to?

I had posted this in the Transistor Launch Trailer thread. Maybe seeing it in action while getting commentary from Greg Kasavin will explain it better than I could abstract?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rh0UbaMbQs

Just from quick videos Ive seen it looks similar Vagrant Story's combat.

Yeah, the comparisons to Vagrant Story's combat are pretty fair (not like that is a bad thing to me).

 

[nbthedude]

To be fair there's no demo and being a digital game it can't be rented. $20 is a lot to take a chance on for someone who thinks it hits some of their biggest gaming pet peeves based on reviews.

I'll probably still pick it up during a Steam sale to give it a chance but I was consider buying it today and that's what the review convinced me pretty much not to do.

Anyway, I'm still probably only 3/4 through Dark Souls 2 (I'm not positive on how far I am and don't really want to know; I just beat the Mirror Knight) and Watch Dogs comes out next week so I am probably good for now.

 

[Justice_Bolt]

So the game is out on PSN? Still show preorder for me..

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

For those downloading: how big is it? The mobile store won't say.

 

[Zakalwe]

Ah, nevermind...

I'll report back in 20 hours or so.

 

[Cave Johnson]

It is possibly just me, but I don't want to read long form text in a game and I have a PhD in literature. It is irritating and breaks the flow of games. Short, impactful bits, sure. Dark Souls is a perfect example of good story telling in my opinion because the item descriptions themselves help establish the world in very brief but effective ways. Elaborate backstories told in walls of text is always bad in my opinion in a medium that has "video" as part of it's key descriptor. It's like a movie that relies on narration heavily to explain the plot.

But sticking terminals in your game that explain a complicated story in long passages of text? That sounds like the absolute worst way to approach in game narrative.

Assassin's creed 3's animus' bullshit encyclopaedia comes to mind. Thanks for the overly detailed background I need to read right in the middle of an in-game event since - you know - we're stupid enough to need an explanation of what is happening on-screen.

 

[Fushichou187]

So the game is out on PSN? Still show preorder for me..

US SEN is up and running. Already download to my PS4.

 

[bombshell]

For those downloading: how big is it? The mobile store won't say.

2.4GB

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

Is there a demo?

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

So the game is out on PSN? Still show preorder for me..

Yes click on that and it should take you to the add cart button and it costs $0.00 if you already preordered. Otherwise it shows $19.99 and you can buy and download.

The name just says preorder still.

 

[OnPoint]

Well, if some critic could offer counter points to those objections or demonstrate how they aren't true, I'd be willing to listen. It's just that those particular criticism are very specific and are also very much the kind of things I hate in games. It also does seem to me that the gaming press in general is bit starry eyed for SuperGiant because Greg Kassavan was their buddy and fellow game journalist. I'm not saying it was a bad game but it sure as hell got more of a glowing free ride to amazing press than it should have.

Sure.

The story is convoluted and brimming with extraneous detail, doled out at optional terminals and on unlockable screens you might never see. Names you’ve never heard waft into the game and suddenly one of them is important and you have no idea why. . ..

The world is packed with lore, much of it optional. You get no real gameplay benefit for visiting these. Similarly to Metroid Prime, there are deeper details of the story housed in these, things that flesh out the background of the world and provide history. It helps it feel like it existed before you entered the story. A lot of it is meaningless, sure, but again, it's optional details for those who want to dig more deeply into the world.

There’s no sense of exploration or discovery. If there was a revelation, it was lost on me. There is only a glowing cyber-city, laid out end to end, dropping you back where you began with a few cutscenes along the way.

I kind of don't even understand this one. I would have liked more secrets, but it wasn't billed as open world or free-roaming. It's a linear action game. Seems like his expectations were off here. Silly complaint, honestly.

At one point, you encounter a single puzzle that’s not even really a puzzle. There’s a terrible boss battle for a finale, unlike anything you’d done previously. Then there’s an ending that I didn’t understand and therefore didn’t care about, despite the music caring deeply.

I don't know what puzzle he was talking about...? It's a pretty straight forward game with no puzzles. The final boss battle is definitely a slight departure, but makes sense in the context of the story. Also, I thought it was a pretty cool event, so I think we just disagree there.

As for the ending, I'm not at all shocked he didn't care. He didn't like the game. I am shocked, though, that he says couldn't comprehend it. It wasn't a very difficult conclusion to understand, and makes sense given the events that lead up to it.

And as for you insinuating that people love the game because they're buddies with Kassavin, I loved both this and Bastion and I am not buddies with him. I've spoken with him at shows and demoed his games, but outside of those experiences and a few press emails him and I are entire strangers. It's a pretty presumptuous accusation to make, and you might want to think better of posting things like that in the future.

 

[Justice_Bolt]

Yes click on that and it should take you to the add cart button and it costs $0.00 if you already preordered. Otherwise it shows $19.99 and you can buy and download.

The name just says preorder still.

Ok thanks! Now time to download this!

 

[Zakalwe]

Sure.



The world is packed with lore, much of it optional. You get no real gameplay benefit for visiting these. Similarly to Metroid Prime, there are deeper details of the story housed in these, things that flesh out the background of the world and provide history. It helps it feel like it existed before you entered the story. A lot of it is meaningless, sure, but again, it's optional details for those who want to dig more deeply into the world.



I kind of don't even understand this one. I would have liked more secrets, but it wasn't billed as open world or free-roaming. It's a linear action game. Seems like his expectations were off here. Silly complaint, honestly.



I don't know what puzzle he was talking about...? It's a pretty straight forward game with no puzzles. The final boss battle is definitely a slight departure, but makes sense in the context of the story. Also, I thought it was a pretty cool event, so I think we just disagree there.

As for the ending, I'm not at all shocked he didn't care. He didn't like the game. I am shocked, though, that he says couldn't comprehend it. It wasn't a very difficult conclusion to understand, and makes sense given the events that lead up to it.

And as for you insinuating that people love the game because they're buddies with Kassavin, I loved both this and Bastion and I am not buddies with him. I've spoken with him at shows and demoed his games, but outside of those experiences and a few press emails him and I are entire strangers. It's a pretty presumptuous accusation to make, and you might want to think better of posting things like that in the future.

On point.

 

[Fine Ham Abounds]

So kind of like Parasite Eve 1 or Vagrant Story.

Ah, now that means something to an old fart like me

 

[nbthedude]

I get it. I just don't know why you're so ready to believe the problems he highlights are legitimate. He could have just lost focus due to disliking the combat, or it not being Bastion, or whatever.

It would irritate me too if I find the issues he describes, but I'm not willing to write off an intriguing looking game by the makers of a game I thoroughly enjoyed just because some dude articulated an option well.

Still, I understand we need filters.

I'll report back in roughly 20 hours time.

Well I specifically read the worst criticism first precisely because I thought Bastion got more praise than I thought it deserved. I wouldn't qualify it as a bad game, just a average one with above average music and artwork. I will stop trying to mind read critics motives, but I will say their opinion on Bastion didn't resonate with me at all. Hell, based on the games praise it received in reviews, I recommended the game to more casual gaming friends, a lot of whom bought it on my recommendation and most of whom didn't find it interesting enough to bother finishing.

This game is $20 and I have $80 in my steam wallet for Watch Dogs and perhaps one other game. I was reading these reviews specifically because I was on the fence, not because I wanted hype up my excitement, which is why many other people seem to read them.

 

[Fushichou187]

Ah, now that means something to an old fart like me

You and me both, mate lol

First time I saw the combat gameplay I mentioned to a younger friend "oh, that reminds me of Vagrant Story.."

"Vagrant what now? Is that another one of those indie games?"

I died a little that day.

 

[TheJollyCorner]

I know nothing of this game...


Those reviews are hard to ignore.
I will blind buy.

 

[Confused Cheeseburger]

Marty @ ign described the style and story as blade runner meets cowboy bebop.
Sold.

 

[nbthedude]

And as for you insinuating that people love the game because they're buddies with Kassavin, I loved both this and Bastion and I am not buddies with him. I've spoken with him at shows and demoed his games, but outside of those experiences and a few press emails him and I are entire strangers. It's a pretty presumptuous accusation to make, and you might want to think better of posting things like that in the future.

It may be fair that I shouldn't try to mind read critics motives. But on the other hand, I think it's also fair game when they are reviewing their friends games (and he is indeed good friends with a number of people in the gaming press).

But fair enough. Obviously not everybody who liked Bastion were friends with Kassavin. I should have maybe just said that the critical opinion of the game didn't resonate with me at all and left it at that. What I would really like is to hear from someone who disliked Bastion or thought it was mediocre (as I know a lot of Gaffers did) and see what they think of this game.

 

[Vire]

I normally pay no mind to Tom Chick's reviews because his taste is garbage, but the fact that most or some of the game's story is told through terminals is rather disappointing to me. After witnessing the abomination that was Halo 4's story, I rather games do away with terminals all together and just organically tell the story through normally playing the game.

 

[Cess007]

Marty @ ign described the style and story as blade runner meets cowboy bebop.
Sold.

Wait, what? WHAT?? Ehh, guys; i made my mind, give me a second..

**buys**

 

[PetriP-TNT]

Dang, Supergiant should have read the 15 things thing from the Quarter To Three review, what a shame.

Spoiler

lawl

 

[OnPoint]

I normally pay no mind to Tom Chick's reviews because his taste is garbage, but the fact that most or some of the game's story is told through terminals is rather disappointing to me. After witnessing the abomination that was Halo 4's story, I rather games do away with terminals all together and just organically tell the story through normally playing the game.

The background and finer details are told through the terminals. The game is narrated in the same way Bastion is. In fact, there might be more constant narration than there was in that game. You can skip almost every single terminal and have a complete understanding of what's going on, and the ones you shouldn't skip, the game points out to you by saying "hey, go check that out" somehow.

 

[Zakalwe]

Well I specifically read the worst criticism first precisely because I thought Bastion got more praise than I thought it deserved. I wouldn't qualify it as a bad game, just a average one with above average music and artwork. I will stop trying to mind read critics motives, but I will say their opinion on Bastion didn't resonate with me at all. Hell, based on the games praise it received in reviews, I recommended the game to more casual gaming friends, a lot of whom bought it on my recommendation and most of whom didn't find it interesting enough to bother finishing.

This game is $20 and I have $80 in my steam wallet for Watch Dogs and perhaps one other game. I was reading these reviews specifically because I was on the fence, not because I wanted hype up my excitement, which is why many other people seem to read them.

Careful, you're projecting at the end there again.

Hyperbole is common yes, but that's because people are passionate. I don't think that's always an immediately bad thing, nor something you should consider a worry if you don't agree with.

Anyway, you got a counter opinion above. Maybe that will help. People will start reporting back soon enough too.

 

[Dark Octave]

Modelled first, turned into a sprite and then painted over, I'm sure

 

[0ptimusPayne]

Great reviews. Definitely will be picking this up during a PS+ sale down the line. Still got my hands deep in Child of light, and then Watchdogs next week.

 

[kittens]

Nice! Gonna go download now.

 

[Architect]

Great reviews, just picked it up. Looking forward to giving it a try.

 

[DarthPrince]

Reviews look fantastic, I wasn't expecting them to be this high, but sure am glad I was wrong. Gonna try to duck out of work early for this =p