That's nice. And he tears up NAFTA. Now what? What is Canada supposed to do? What leverage do we have to justifying a power play during the G20.
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Trudeau called Merkel to avoid calling out Trump at G20 summit over climate
- Thread starter Xando
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That's nice. And he tears up NAFTA. Now what? What is Canada supposed to do? What leverage do we have to justifying a power play during the G20.
excelsiorlef
Member
Then why did it leak....
Ok maybe she doesn't want top spot but certainly she seems interested in some increase of influence.
Which I'm not claiming is a bad thing btw.
Now come back and talk to us when one of those things actually turns into something real. We have punitive tariffs in effect right now. You have a piece of paper and some angry tweets.
Which is why you're safe and we're not.
Because Spiegel has some very good sources within the chancellory.
They repeatedly get storys from within which are both positive and negative for Merkel.
I mean just today they revealed that german car makers are still cheating on emissions.
ClosingADoor
Member
The fact that Trump is threatening NAFTA already shows he wants to fuck over Canada. Don't think just keeping quiet about other issues is going to do that much.
Look, I'm not really blaming Trudeau too much and I get his reasoning. I just don't think it will work with someone like Trump, because he will screw you either way, so better align yourself with trustworthy partners and try to make a bloc.
Pandora012
Member
Don't think Trump can do that, just congress. I think...
excelsiorlef
Member
LOL, you clearly haven't been paying attention. The guy just increased tariffs on our lumber on a FUCKING WHIM. I won't put it by him to retaliate by tearing up NAFTA if he felt so inclined to for humiliating him on the world stage. I'm just glad you're not in public policy.
Oh that's so fucking reassuring. Yah, congress. That institution that is willing to apply a border tax on goods across the border. That congress? Or is this a congress from fantasy land keeping their checks and balances on fucking incompetent president?
KernelPanic
Member
He's all talk. He will change a few things in it and call it a win.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Merkel can afford to have a few spats with the US but not Canada.
For context, Trump put tariffs on Canadian lumber, and tens of thousands of jobs are on the line (you know, Canadian lumberjacks...). I don't like that we're in this position but Trudeau has to do what he's got to do.
For context, Trump put tariffs on Canadian lumber, and tens of thousands of jobs are on the line (you know, Canadian lumberjacks...). I don't like that we're in this position but Trudeau has to do what he's got to do.
gutter_trash
Banned
don't forget that the majority of Governors are pro-NAFTA and don't want to see Trump fuck with it
Pretty dick move to leak this. Canada has basically no other option than public appeasement.
If there were any other climate-denying president in the White House I would say this tactic was cowardly, but everything is way too volatile with Trump. He's ready to burn everything down just to pander to some farmers. He could destroy our economy if he just doesn't like the way Trudeau looks at him.
Trudeau is smart to ride this out and work through other avenues. Going head to head with Trump is not an option.
If there were any other climate-denying president in the White House I would say this tactic was cowardly, but everything is way too volatile with Trump. He's ready to burn everything down just to pander to some farmers. He could destroy our economy if he just doesn't like the way Trudeau looks at him.
Trudeau is smart to ride this out and work through other avenues. Going head to head with Trump is not an option.
We (Canada) stated we're disappointed in the Americans on June 1st and we're going to push forward. That's the extent of it.
JordanN
Banned
For me, I'm not interested in geopolitics. I'm interested in politicians who care about me at a human level.
Trudeau already lives a life better than most Canadians. He doesn't have to worry how Trump personally affects him because his life will go on regardless.
It's that level of disconnect in politics I despise. Because they're making decisions for millions of other people but rarely ever face the consequences for it.
And I hold this true for all politicians. Like Obama for example. I'm pretty sure there were a lot of politics at play that he couldn't personally stop all those drone strikes around the world. But he's still a person who wields that much power that ordinary citizens can only watch as civilians get bombed to death without wondering "is this really right?".
truestatic
Member
And the US still accounts for less than 20% of EU trade. Canada is much more vulnerable.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
Who do you think pays for government incentives? Electric cars and LED bulbs don't fall from the sky. Carbon tax to subsidize green products (and give rebates to low income/seniors) is exactly what your Alberta government is doing. I mean, I prefer a carbon tax to be revenue neutral but what the Alberta NDP did is exactly what you wanted.
It's less this and more that it's not the job of a national leader to criticize a different sovereign nation. That never does anything other than to make the leader in question look good at the expense of that sovereign nation. In an international forum like the G20, there are much more important things to do that will require the assistance of the US, so alienating them is generally not the right tactic.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
But there's not going to be a way to fix that. The government wants to give them financial aid to find new jobs, and the American logging companies are crying that it is a form of government subsidy. Who do you think Trump will side with in that fight?
ClosingADoor
Member
Huh? I was making exactly the point in the post you quoted that because he is already fucking over Canada, just standing there and taking it won't help you guys out. He'll find another reason if he wants to.
And yes, I'm also glad I am not in charge of all this, because the whole situation is a shit storm.
TangoAlphaLima
Member
You do realize that, despite having an economy nearly twice the size of Canada, Germany does only a small fraction of the trade with the U.S. that Canada does?
It's an apples and oranges discussion. Canada is far more reliant on trade with the U.S. than Germany is, and that's why Trudeau is treading carefully, especially in light of prior comments by Trump about withdrawing from NAFTA. Canada has way more to lose than Germany does.
Matrix XII
Member
Trudeau is posturing for NAFTA and the pipeline. That's how I see this.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
We're in the 6 month cool off period for NAFTA renegotiations, it's not only lumber.
Yeah, you're right. It's too easy to be high and mighty about this from our German perspective. I'm sorry about that. But it's too bad that Canada, what should be a close ally, does not work with Germany on this one. The UK is desperate for a trade deal. It's sad, but understandable. Japan is afraid of war with North Korea. But Canada? That's somewhat surprising.
I wouldn't expect Trump/US Congress to scrap trade relations just because of this either to be honest. I get the caution, but it's disappointing.
MeBecomingI
Member
There is a lot unnecessary outrage here. His statement he released when Trump announced he was leaving the Paris Agreement was pretty good and rather than start a public war of words (with a giant child who gets angry quickly) at a time when Trump is trying to swing a better deal for the U.S during a renegoiated NAFTA (which is bad for Canada), he is trying to keep things low-key.
I think this is the best approach. Regardless if Trump is a piece of shit, Trudeau still needs to be professional and take a careful approach.
I'm not frustrated with Trudeau at all over this. I think it's a little overblown. I get that everyone hates Trump and they all get excited when another leader sticks it to Trump, but Canada borders the U.S and they are so intrinsically linked that starting a little war of words is not a smart play. If anything, this shows Trudeau is a smart guy who understands the smaller, careful approach with the big bully is probably the better one.
I think this is the best approach. Regardless if Trump is a piece of shit, Trudeau still needs to be professional and take a careful approach.
I'm not frustrated with Trudeau at all over this. I think it's a little overblown. I get that everyone hates Trump and they all get excited when another leader sticks it to Trump, but Canada borders the U.S and they are so intrinsically linked that starting a little war of words is not a smart play. If anything, this shows Trudeau is a smart guy who understands the smaller, careful approach with the big bully is probably the better one.
Not sure where this has popped up from lol. Merkel runs this shit now. Although damn GAF, another political 180 by y'all.
Impeccable
Member
Based on all the evidence these types of posts share.
Trump got Schumer on board for this, its a tit for tat(lumber/dairy) thing.
Buba Big Guns
Banned
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Lumber and NAFTA are separate negotiations at the moment.
Lmao cool. Vote conservative. That'll be helpful when it comes to climate change and actual progress on anything. LDP are never making government so it's one or the other. Liberals are the only people a sane person would vote for.
Edit: seriously, what started this Trudeau hate? Is it people being clueless? People see him as week and a liar and all this shit and it makes no sense. Out of all the English speaking countries he is by far the best and most progressive leaders and is probably one of the best and most progressive in the world.
truestatic
Member
He's too handsome and smiley, and we don't have a State of the Union for him to trumpet his accomplishments, so what with the occassional accidental and intentional photo op, he comes off as a glad handing prettyboy.
I think.
That's kinda always been where Canada has stood, they were willing to criticize the U.S. but only so far as to not piss off its leaders permanently. And Trump is stupid enough to go nuclear over minor slights. It's not like it changes Canada's own policy.
yeah i don't get it either. Clearly there is an axe to grind beforehand. We unforunately don't have the realistic position to be just throwing shit willy-nilly at an erratic and radical leader like Trump. That's not capitulation, that's just smart politics. People need to stop being children who demand to see a tonne of school-yard name-calling thrown around by adults whose decisions can have serious impact. It's not like changing our words about Trump will mean ANYTHING to him, so best air on the side of not poking the rattlesnake.
firehawk12
Subete no aware
Like I said in other threads, I know exactly how Sanders supporters feel when Democrats call them traitors and "purists". lol
(Because not liking Trudeau means I'm a Scheer supporter I guess? lulz)
RiverShell
Member
I've had few problems with Trudeau, I hear people talk shit about him everyday and usually defend him. I worry sometimes that the resistence to critique him isn't going to stop him from tearing up NAFTA anyway, and leave Trudeau with an about face and less votes down the line.
I find it particularly hilarious because I was defending his pipeline decision a few months ago.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I got a haircut in Alberta and the stylist called him "Prime Minister Selfie". :/
Buba Big Guns
Banned
And to further add to Trudeau's actions:
Canada's current CO2e projections under a status quo scenario (high to low GDP growth)
How Canada plans to reach it's target
Symbolic gestures such as the one in the OP don't mean anything. It wont affect negotiations with respect to the Paris agreement and it wont change Trump's opinion on it.
If you wan't actual substance, this Canadian government is actually working really hard to deliver. Drive by posters have no idea of what is actually being proposed, and as much as they would like to believe otherwise, have no idea what the government even plans to do. It's sad when 5 seconds of research can teach you everything you need to know.
Dude, no offense but you've been posting nonsense since that kayak thread. Where exactly is Trudeau not delivering with climate?
Canada's current CO2e projections under a status quo scenario (high to low GDP growth)
How Canada plans to reach it's target
Symbolic gestures such as the one in the OP don't mean anything. It wont affect negotiations with respect to the Paris agreement and it wont change Trump's opinion on it.
If you wan't actual substance, this Canadian government is actually working really hard to deliver. Drive by posters have no idea of what is actually being proposed, and as much as they would like to believe otherwise, have no idea what the government even plans to do. It's sad when 5 seconds of research can teach you everything you need to know.
Dude, no offense but you've been posting nonsense since that kayak thread. Where exactly is Trudeau not delivering with climate?
These are excellent posts.
Trudeau is doing nothing wrong in this instance.
I would have much preferred a unified voice with the EU. I know that the US is our midst important ally and poking the bear that is trump isn't smart, but this is someplace where we shouldn't waiver. Yes let's do oil deals with the US, keys be cautious, but sometimes history is more important
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
Keep telling me how Canada is the new leader of the free world, Canadians.
You Are Viewtiful
Member
It's the same personalities in both discussions, and we're taking the Americans to court under NAFTA afaik.
Now I believe those people who say being beautiful is difficult.
He has a lot of haters just because of his hair and good looks. xD
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
what was the name of this show anyway?
RiverShell
Member
Fantastical
Death Prophet
The Weekenders!
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