-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Turning a corner? Pirate groups fail to crack copy protection
- Thread starter Zenith
- Start date
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
Chairman Yang said:
To an extent. If a small name game has tough DRM, they might not waste their time. But once a big name game comes out with that same DRM, they will do it for the rep. From that point on they know how to break that DRM much more easily and are more likely to do it for smaller name titles.
TheHeretic
Banned
Just fyi, the game has been cracked. Don't know where the OP is getting that is hasn't.
Chairman Yang said:
Sort of. Once it's cracked it's cracked forever. Like I said the hackers themselves simply use knowledge of each copy-protection and so any game down the line using it will be instantly cracked. This is simply an example of copy-protection keeping them out for longer than usual. It too will eventually succumb.
The reason your analogy isn't good is because breaking is always much, much easier than creating.
gregor7777
Banned
TheHeretic said:
You keep reiterating that point, and I agree with you.
wolfmat
Confirmed Asshole
I'm a big Linux freak. Still, most botnet zombies are running Linux kernels. So much about security by design. Can we drop that one now? It's besides the point.
I refuse to believe the groups don't want the AitD GET. A release will still spawn millions of downloads with their NFO in it. This game has been reviewed by GameTrailers, 1UP etc. It's a blockbuster game, although one of the not-so-good ones. That doesn't mean shit though when you want the fame as a cracker group.
I refuse to believe the groups don't want the AitD GET. A release will still spawn millions of downloads with their NFO in it. This game has been reviewed by GameTrailers, 1UP etc. It's a blockbuster game, although one of the not-so-good ones. That doesn't mean shit though when you want the fame as a cracker group.
wayward archer
Member
There are two kinds of groups who crack pc games.
a) those who do it for straight up piracy
b) those who do it to remove cd-in-drive requirements or copy protection schemes that consume system resources (Starforce for instance).
with AiTD, Atari uses a copy protection scheme where you only need the CD when you install the game or patch it. So most of the groups that fall under category B are pretty satisfied with that and aren't even working on this game. Less people working on it = takes longer (or maybe never even happens).
a) those who do it for straight up piracy
b) those who do it to remove cd-in-drive requirements or copy protection schemes that consume system resources (Starforce for instance).
with AiTD, Atari uses a copy protection scheme where you only need the CD when you install the game or patch it. So most of the groups that fall under category B are pretty satisfied with that and aren't even working on this game. Less people working on it = takes longer (or maybe never even happens).
Actually, I think Splinter Cell 3 was the longest one that went without being broken due to Starforce, not SC2.
Actually, both popular anti-copy schemes (SecuROM and Starforce) don't consume system resources. Rather, they interfere with the proper operation of the optical drive. Starforce from 2-3 years ago installed stuff into Ring0. Around the same time, SecuROM 6 (or was it 7) had some compatibility issues with some optical drives (I think NWN2 was one with a lot of problems).
wayward archer said:
Actually, both popular anti-copy schemes (SecuROM and Starforce) don't consume system resources. Rather, they interfere with the proper operation of the optical drive. Starforce from 2-3 years ago installed stuff into Ring0. Around the same time, SecuROM 6 (or was it 7) had some compatibility issues with some optical drives (I think NWN2 was one with a lot of problems).
Emerson
May contain jokes =>
wayward archer said:
I don't think this is entirely true. Most scene groups aren't really interested in pirating games as they sometimes spend a lot of money in the pursuit of cracking games. The second might be true but I'd say real scene groups with the first motivation are near nonexistant.
well the logic is clearly flawed
if its the same protection as bioshock it can be cracked, so this type of protection clearly is crackable. just because a buttload of shit games have been cracked since then doesnt mean they cant do alone in the dark.
i'm sure Space Chimps wouldnt have been done either if it had the bioshock DRM, it no doubt had some easy serial number based thing or something that they broke in 5 minutes and if they can churn things out they will no matter how bad it is.
infact theres no such thing as uncrackable.
the only thing that i'm aware of that is becoming infeasible to crack is the dongle protection they use on things like cubase, although i think even that got done eventually.
and even so logic dropped their dongles (which were never broken on the mac) for logic pro 8 leaving it wide open.
if its the same protection as bioshock it can be cracked, so this type of protection clearly is crackable. just because a buttload of shit games have been cracked since then doesnt mean they cant do alone in the dark.
i'm sure Space Chimps wouldnt have been done either if it had the bioshock DRM, it no doubt had some easy serial number based thing or something that they broke in 5 minutes and if they can churn things out they will no matter how bad it is.
infact theres no such thing as uncrackable.
the only thing that i'm aware of that is becoming infeasible to crack is the dongle protection they use on things like cubase, although i think even that got done eventually.
and even so logic dropped their dongles (which were never broken on the mac) for logic pro 8 leaving it wide open.
DongHungLong
Banned
Umm... Its been cracked for a bit now actually. Just people don't know the right places to get things.
wayward archer
Member
SRG01 said:
I'm pretty sure one of Starforce's past schemes ate system resources.
From wikipedia:
dr_rus said:
that was the reason given but the crack doesn't work regardless. it was a fake crack made by someone who didn't know the "etiquette" for releasing.
didn't say it was uncrackable. and Bioshock took 3 weeks. this copy protection seems to tie into the games in different ways, meaning for each game it fucks up something different. if it wasn't for some random Russian and another random guy both working independently Mass Effect would never have been cracked.
I will gladly retract if PMed a link, but there's nothing on nforce so at the least none of the major groups have done anything. and the vast majority of pirates have still been prevented from pirating the game if true.
HarryHengst
Member
That's not relevant. The question is if it helps increase sales. I'm not sure if that's the case with AITD.MirageDwarf said:
I think the bigger news in the same direction of "Turning a corner" is that it's still not possible to play "backups" on PS3. The usual reasons that were brought up in the past for this don't make much sense any more:
- "The PS3 has no games worth pirating" -- No longer true, if it ever was.
- "BR burners are too expensive" -- Starting from 180 now.
- "BD blanks are too expensive" -- Starting from 7/blank.
So I believe it's quite likely that PS3 is simply the first example of a modern console that is truly secure. When you control all of the hardware, the application layer, and the software that is distributed and have the ability to push updates over the internet it is perfectly possible to create a virtually "uncrackable" system.
If it is as I suppose, and PS3 remains uncracked for much of its lifetime, it will be interesting to see how the effect on this on both hardware and software sales plays out -- we'll see if the impact is anything like as big as publishers seem to believe. One part of the market I see being significantly affected is the price of used copies long after the initial sale of a game.
- "The PS3 has no games worth pirating" -- No longer true, if it ever was.
- "BR burners are too expensive" -- Starting from 180 now.
- "BD blanks are too expensive" -- Starting from 7/blank.
So I believe it's quite likely that PS3 is simply the first example of a modern console that is truly secure. When you control all of the hardware, the application layer, and the software that is distributed and have the ability to push updates over the internet it is perfectly possible to create a virtually "uncrackable" system.
If it is as I suppose, and PS3 remains uncracked for much of its lifetime, it will be interesting to see how the effect on this on both hardware and software sales plays out -- we'll see if the impact is anything like as big as publishers seem to believe. One part of the market I see being significantly affected is the price of used copies long after the initial sale of a game.
1. Invite onlyEmerson said:
2. Skills in cracking, expensive equipment (computer resources mainly) or lots of bandwidth are desirable.
3. Access to pre-release material is another way to get invited.
4. Constant paranoia is a job requirement.
5. "A desire to live an alternative lifestyle free from the corporate world" is the nice version of why they do it.
6. IMHO, gets very boring after a short time. Who in the world really cares all that much about cracking software,etc? Better things to spend time on for me.
wmat said:Dude I'm all over that shit.
Although it's Atari all the way here.
So burn in hell.
Bah!
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=7WDSEp86Nms&feature=related
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=W4_V6leTq-E&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6tq5eyjKoM
Woo-Fu
Banned
It is dual-securerom protection, dvd check and activation.
Trickier stuff like this often goes uncracked until somebody works up a skeleton key of sorts to crack any game using a variant of this protection.
It would appear that Alone in the Dark isn't motivating enough to go to that effort.
Think I would mark that up as a LOSE for Atari before marking it as a WIN for securerom.
Trickier stuff like this often goes uncracked until somebody works up a skeleton key of sorts to crack any game using a variant of this protection.
It would appear that Alone in the Dark isn't motivating enough to go to that effort.
Think I would mark that up as a LOSE for Atari before marking it as a WIN for securerom.
First off, Alone in the Dark PC isn't a major release any way you look at it.
Second, many other games have had longer times be be cracked by scene rules.
-Bioshock was over a month
-Mass Effect is at 2 months without a good crack
-Dead to Rights was 2 months without a crack
-Splinter Cell *Chaos Theory* does count, 13.5 months on that one
I think it's good that it's taking longer to crack things (god damn people, buy your games) but I don't think this speaks for piracy on the whole and I don't think this trend will last too long. What we're seeing is new, not so commonly used copy-protection that groups aren't used to. When every game starts shipping with securom 7 and online activation, you'll see this is no different than any other copy-protection that gave people a hard time when it first came out.
Second, many other games have had longer times be be cracked by scene rules.
-Bioshock was over a month
-Mass Effect is at 2 months without a good crack
-Dead to Rights was 2 months without a crack
-Splinter Cell *Chaos Theory* does count, 13.5 months on that one
I think it's good that it's taking longer to crack things (god damn people, buy your games) but I don't think this speaks for piracy on the whole and I don't think this trend will last too long. What we're seeing is new, not so commonly used copy-protection that groups aren't used to. When every game starts shipping with securom 7 and online activation, you'll see this is no different than any other copy-protection that gave people a hard time when it first came out.
Woo-Fu
Banned
Durante said:
PS3 is not secure, it is obscure. There are not unlimited resources available to pirate groups, which means those limited resources tend to get spent where they'll have the greatest effect. PS3 being in last place(in America) means the risk/reward ratio is the worst on that platform.
...it is the same reason there are far more windows virus than mac virus.
gregor7777
Banned
theBishop said:
Why the stealth edit? :lol
I liked the man's head exploding.
EDIT: because it's the wrong thread lol...I read too much GAF :lol
wolfmat
Confirmed Asshole
FLEABttn said:
Actually, it got cracked within a week.
This is all just pointless speculation. The Scene is made up of many individuals, and there will always be someone willing to take up the intellectual challenge of defeating the DRM.
Also, it's probably a losing battle to begin with. Online music is doing pretty well without DRM, the same will probably eventually happen with PC gaming (Steam anyone?)
Woo-Fu said:
Wow... injecting Systemwars into a thread about piracy :slowclap:
I seem to remember Xbox1's mod/piracy scene being quite robust...
The biggest reason why PS3 hasn't been "cracked" yet is that Sony provided an outlet for the people who usually do the cracking. Most of the initial proof of concept hacks in the mod scene come from people who want to do homebrew development, not rip off games.
PS3 allows anyone to write code for the Cell processor free of charge without the need for hacks. So rather than wasting time on buffer overflows and exploiting system calls, the homebrew scene can get straight down to business.