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Twin Peaks Season 3 OT |25 Years Later...It Is Happening Again

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Dan-o

Member
Zach said:
Can't hold a candle to "Llorando." And of course that episode ends with Moby all up on my TV.
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Llorando is top-tier.
I didn't even recognize Moby, so, I guess that's alright. Strange, because he is very easily recognizable, yet somehow I missed him. Paid too much attention to Rebekah, I guess. :)
 
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benicillin

Banned
Dougie's slow recovery and the relationship between him and Janey-E seems more and more integral to the season the more I think about it.

The sooner you bring Cooper back the sooner you start the race to the end because he knows so much that he'd resolve most of these plot lines in 4x the speed of anyone else. It's rough but I think the wait is going to be well worth it.
 
F

Futureman

Member
benicillin said:
Dougie's slow recovery and the relationship between him and Janey-E seems more and more integral to the season the more I think about it.

The sooner you bring Cooper back the sooner you start the race to the end because he knows so much that he'd resolve most of these plot lines in 4x the speed of anyone else. It's rough but I think the wait is going to be well worth it.
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This may sound insulting to those who don't like The Return, but it feels like the people who don't like this series (which probably boils down to no classic Coop yet for most) would rather have had Lynch not involved at all. We could have had something safe where all the fan favorite check boxes were already cleared after 2-3 episodes. ANY other director who had this beloved source material that was bringing it back after 25 years would have had normal Coop back no later than 3 hours in.

I think the story they've decided to tell is much more surprising/interesting.

I'm fine with people upset that the tone feels pretty different from the original series. That's understandable (though I don't 100% agree... I think the tone is definitely still there, it's just that Lynch can do whatever he wants and he tends to lean towards darker themes/imagery).
 
L

liquidtmd

Banned
Levito said:
I still feel the people saying this isn't "Twin Peaks" enough have some serious rose tinted glasses on. After Leland dies the second season takes such an immense nosedive in quality ....

... I don't need Kyle Maclachlan looking into the camera and saying "DAMN FINE COFFEE" for it to be Twin Peaks for me.
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Two things, not specifically at you Levito, but to these trains of thought

1) So many times people enter the thread and voice criticism, the old 'well lol Season 2' argument is given. How in any way is this addressing some people's criticisms of what we are watching now

2) Some people invariably would be satisfied with just a rehash of the Cooper mannerisms that hit popular culture, but many actually miss far more about Cooper than that. His optimism, his intelligence and generally well to do, heart on his sleeve personality. It was warm, comforting and pleasurable to watch

Lynch revels in making the audience feel awkward. It's challenging TV. Im totally onboard for the run, but as someone to anchor the whole endeavour, Dougie's simpleton whose form of communication is parroting is an absolute gaping hole in comparison to Cooper.

Without that warm charm of Cooper to serve as a gateway for the audience to latch onto as a descent into the off kilter world Twin Peaks represents, I'm not suprised it's having a fair few in this thread lamenting the missing link on its own merits - it's more than just wanting Cooper to wink at the camera and pull a thumbs up with Gordon or something
 
Kadayi

Kadayi

Banned
ElectricBlanketFire said:
It's literally the first negative thing I've posted in this thread and is a minor quibble I have with an otherwise solid episode. How is that "being edgy?"
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You have an inflated sense as to how much attention I gave your particular post tbh.

liquidtmd said:
Lynch revels in making the audience feel awkward. It's challenging TV. Im totally onboard for the run, but as someone to anchor the whole endeavour, Dougie's simpleton whose form of communication is parroting is an absolute gaping hole in comparison to Cooper.
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Cooper is most definitely in there, he's just hampered from being fully realised at this juncture.
 
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Vyse The Legend

Member
So, what's the deal with Diane? She's feeding DoppelCoop information, and Gordon says he felt something off about her.

Is she a doppelganger? Could she be the little girl with the bug?
 
B

benicillin

Banned
liquidtmd said:
2) Some people invariably would be satisfied with just a rehash of the Cooper mannerisms that hit popular culture, but many actually miss far more about Cooper than that. His optimism, his intelligence and generally well to do, heart on his sleeve personality. It was warm, comforting and pleasurable to watch.
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In an interesting way I feel like Cooper's personality traits are reflected by the people around him. By all rights he should be dead by now, he's never been more vulnerable and exposed (a big deal for someone as cool, calm, in control and collected as Cooper) but more or less everyone he's run into has taken care of him. If anything it's proof that his inherent goodness and belief in the goodness of others is what is like the karma and good luck keeping him alive, and will eventually make his return that much better.
 
Kadayi

Kadayi

Banned
Vyse The Legend said:
So, what's the deal with Diane? She's feeding DoppelCoop information, and Gordon says he felt something off about her.
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I think what he meant was with regard to her reaction to Evil Coop in the prison. I don't think she was necessarily unhappy to see him behind bars, but at the same time, the text message conveys the fact that she certainly has had dealings with him outside of what she told Gordon. She's probably much like Duncan Todd (the desk guy in Las Vegas) deeply afraid of him. Judging by the events in episode 2. It's questionable whether Evil Coop can be killed, and given the dubious circles, he mixes in, I suspect a few people know already that based on past experience.
 
L

liquidtmd

Banned
benicillin said:
In an interesting way I feel like Cooper's personality traits are reflected by the people around him. By all rights he should be dead by now, he's never been more vulnerable and exposed (a big deal for someone as cool, calm, in control and collected as Cooper) but more or less everyone he's run into has taken care of him. If anything it's proof that his inherent goodness and belief in the goodness of others is what is like the karma and good luck keeping him alive, and will eventually make his return that much better.
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I...actually quite like this take.

Still frustrating over the space of the eight odd hours he's been this way, but I like it.
 
V

VistraNorrez

Member
Don Draper's Hat said:
That's never going to happen. I very rarely watch films. What are his best ones?
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Tough. He's only got 10 theatrical releases. 1 he disowns and the other is attached to Twin Peaks. I would think over the course of a life you'd have time to watch them all, but if I narrowed down to 3 I'd go with Eraserhead, Blue Velvet, and Mulholland Dr. But that's tough. Watch them in release order. If just 1 go Mulholland Dr.
 
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Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
I wouldn't miss Lost Highway either. The "I'm in your house scene" is still in my mind after all this time.

Also I like the analysis that Cooper has survived so far because of his good karma.
 
3

31GhostsIV

Banned
Don Draper's Hat said:
That's never going to happen. I very rarely watch films. What are his best ones?
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Mulholland Dr. should be your first, it's his best one (IMO of course).

Got the new ep on in the background, didn't notice the classic score bleeding through the jazz drums during the Mitchum brother scene after Anthony left first time.

Did anyone catch Sylvia Horne's safe number?
 
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Dan-o

Member
Juan29.zapata said:
I wouldn't miss Lost Highway either. The "I'm in your house scene" is still in my mind after all this time.
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Yup. Honestly, I think starting with Mulholland Drive is a mistake (and yes, it IS his best). LH is the best entry point. Some day, I'll write an essay about this... :)
 
3

31GhostsIV

Banned
Dan-o said:
Yup. Honestly, I think starting with Mulholland Drive is a mistake (and yes, it IS his best). LH is the best entry point. Some day, I'll write an essay about this... :)
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I would say Blue Velvet (his second best) is a pretty straightforward tale so maybe I'd do that one first.
 
V

Vectorman

Banned
I can just understand the ones that are defending this show are that Lynch fans. What I don't like is them trying to say, 'You guys just don't get what Lynch is trying to do here, you're living off nostalgia'. I feel like this show is like how I felt when I watch Nicholas Winding Refn's Only God Forgives or like Gosling's Lost River, they looks great, oddly surreal, and the music is top notch, but the story and the characters is so minimal and they so focus on symbols and barely alluded themes that they almost make you forget about plot, pace, and characters. And this show has those same characteristics in Lynch's more recent efforts in film. A lot of style and atmosphere but also has a bare minimum of substance. And perhaps in television, this is very unique and interesting, but having seen Lynch's efforts before, it's not exactly something that is new. Besides, it's like none of you have seen Mr. Robot, which I feel handles surreal and moving the plot somewhat a bit better. It's Lynch being Lynch, for better or for worse. I'm glad some of you are really digging this season, but as for me, I also want some meat on this story and it's just finally picking up steam. A better balance with the surreal, goofy moments and plot advancement would have helped this show.
 
1

120v

Member
Vectorman said:
Besides, it's like none of you have seen Mr. Robot, which I feel handles surreal and moving the plot somewhat a bit better. It's Lynch being Lynch, for better or for worse.
.
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LOL

i mean, i like mr. robot. but that's amateur hour compared to this
 
D

Dan-o

Member
31GhostsIV said:
I would say Blue Velvet (his second best) is a pretty straightforward tale so maybe I'd do that one first.
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While I agree, I have trouble recommending BV first, only because it revels in that mid-80's cheese that newcomers in the 2010's would likely be turned-off by.
Blue Velvet is great, and can be a fulfilling experience to watch. I do recommend it, but not as one of the first three flicks to see, unless the viewer is specifically aiming to dive into Twin Peaks sooner than later. BV is a good primer for early TP.

For Lynch, in general, I'd go in this order:
Lost Highway
Mulholland Dr
Eraserhead

LH and MD are the most similar, and have the best balance of "this is definitely a David Lynch movie" vs "accessibility" so some might find those choices repetitive, but I think they're kind of a perfect pair. Eraserhead is #3 because it's full-on Lynch and inaccessible, but not over-long like Inland Empire. BV would be #4 on my "Introduction to Lynch" manifesto. Everything else would be sprinkled in after that.
 
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Emperor_Uriel

Member
Levito said:
To me it really isn't all that different, just modernized. It's hilarious, weird, and has a dream like quality that makes this show feel not quite like reality at all times. I don't need Kyle Maclachlan looking into the camera and saying "DAMN FINE COFFEE" for it to be Twin Peaks for me.
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Being different isn't a problem. FWWM was very different from the core story, and I loved it. The problem is that, as I said before, too much and too little is going on at once. You've got one barely coherent scene after another, often with 30 seconds to 2 minutes of dialogue-free lingering padding out every other scene, and very little in the way of cohesive narrative between them all.

It's an annoying show to watch, and I feel like even the people who like it are acutely aware of this. Almost every bit positive feedback I read is people making excuses for Lynch's bizarre direction. It's always: "Don't you see? This scene might look like a bullshit waste of time, but it's actually a profound meta commentary on the ADHD nature of modern television!" Which, at best, is like games that make you do fetch quests while poking fun at how boring fetch quests are.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt, Lynch might be making a very unique and innovative show that speaks to the flawed demands of modern viewers... but I'd much rather he shelved that idea and just made something good.
 
Z

Zach

Member
31GhostsIV said:
For those complaining about Del Rio's performance, be thankful we didn't get the unbearable Ed Sheeran who appeared on the 'other' big cable show last night.

Which, incidentally, continues to be incredibly boring for a show with dragons in it.
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dammit-todd.gif
 
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BorkBork

The Legend of BorkBork: BorkBorkity Borking
Vox - Twin Peaks episode 10: the series delves deeper into violence against women and American misogyny

"There have been episodes since then where I’ve found myself reflexively shuddering when a woman enters view because I fear something bad might happen to her, whether by forces supernatural or (more often) otherwise.

And this is, I think, what Lynch and Frost intend. Twin Peaks contains lots of violence against women because the world it takes place in contains lots of violence against women, as does our world. This idea — that the kind of carefully constructed small-town utopia the American dream is built on comes with a hefty side of misogyny and violence against women — has been present in a lot of Lynch’s work. But it’s never been so prominently in the foreground as it is in this miniseries."
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Vulture - Twin Peaks Recap: Laura Is the One

"We then come back to the Log Lady, who leaves Hawk another cryptic message, but this one a simple metaphor. She talks of fading rivers, electricity, and life, remarking, “The glow is dying.” But she also tells him that the “good ones who have been with you” will help bring the circle back together. And to that, “Laura is the one.” With this powerful message, the Log Lady paints a portrait of a strained world, lost and helpless, like Jerry Horne screaming in the woods, or Nadine quietly watching from her store (Run Silent, Run Drapes!) as Doc Jacoby rants about an opportunistic, capitalist world that owns your life all the way to the graveyard. But in the end, even Jacoby is just trying to sell an overpriced shovel.

How can we live in a world without the glow? The sentiment echoes as we finally go to the Bang Bang Bar and Rebekah Del Rio sings a song called “No Stars,” co-written with Lynch himself. She sings of a wonderful, romantic night under the stars and calls out, “My dream is to go / To the place / Where it all began,” because now we live in a world of “No Stars.” It’s haunting, and it reminds us why moments like Albert’s date matter more than ever. Those moments lie at the center of Cole’s wants, the Log Lady’s message, and our own desire for Cooper to rejoin the family he’s been apart from for so long. We want to get back to where it all began."
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E

ElectricBlanketFire

Member
benicillin said:
She thinks Cooper is Dougie. So it's rape by deception, like if you had two twin brothers and one tricked the others girlfriend into sleeping with him.
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She doesn't know it's not him and Cooper just does whatever people want. He's not capable of being deceived. He's an empty vessel with flashes of his old self.
 
V

VistraNorrez

Member
Emperor_Uriel said:
Being different isn't a problem. FWWM was very different from the core story, and I loved it. The problem is that, as I said before, too much and too little is going on at once. You've got one barely coherent scene after another, often with 30 seconds to 2 minutes of dialogue-free lingering padding out every other scene, and very little in the way of cohesive narrative between them all.

It's an annoying show to watch, and I feel like even the people who like it are acutely aware of this. Almost every bit positive feedback I read is people making excuses for Lynch's bizarre direction. It's always: "Don't you see? This scene might look like a bullshit waste of time, but it's actually a profound meta commentary on the ADHD nature of modern television!" Which, at best, is like games that make you do fetch quests while poking fun at how boring fetch quests are.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt, Lynch might be making a very unique and innovative show that speaks to the flawed demands of modern viewers... but I'd much rather he shelved that idea and just made something good.
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What is good exactly and why do you get to be the one to define it? Your perogative seems to focus on traditional narrative development. Scenes HAVE to be a certain length and HAVE to convey information in a certain way.

The show has plenty of substance to me, and not because of some meta commentary. I don't care about that much at all. I think it's a funny little thing to notice.

What I enjoy is the feeling this show creates. Just the mood and the way characters interact. There is a lot being shown to us. In those silent spaces you see a lot of what these characters are like or what kind of atmosphere fills a space. I feel transported. You add a little mystery to that and I'm hooked to see what happens next.

I've rewatched the Parts 2-3 times and I love them even more. I notice so much more of what's going on. I see things that didn't seem like setups but have been followed through. I see more of the characters themselves because I live more in that moment. It's kind of amazing how much faster an episode moves on rewatch.

I want to feel something from art. And I want that feeling to linger and stick in my memory and come up when I least expect it in my everyday life. It's too early to say for sure, but this new season has more of that than the original run for me.

It's just lovely.
 
Z

Zach

Member
Net_Wrecker said:
People want faster plot development, I understand, but it's been stated time and time again that this is 18 parts of one thing, and I don't know how much more clear the show can make that considering the compressed passage of time and how sequences have been rolled out episode to episode. Halfway through, the pacing is set. Even if your expectations have been crushed, it's pointless to keep hoping for something you will not get.



Anyway, I liked the episode. This is basically a late 90s Lynch crime story unfolding on premium TV in 2017, and I'm 100% down with this. We got some A1 criminal scum scenes in this episode from Richard, some ridiculous Dougie sex comedy with amazing facial expressions by MacLachlan, Jim Belushi and Robert Knepper's Mitchum Brothers getting into the "Kill Dougie Sweepstakes" (they are great together btw), random Laura Palmer jump scare vision, possible confirmation on Diane's heel turn, DoppelCoop connected to the glass box, a classic Log Lady monologue, more of these weird ass showgirls, and the gotdamn Club Silencio woman singing a song wearing a Waiting Room floor dress. I'm ok with all of this.

Things are being meticulously set up to collide throughout the remainder of the season, and I, for one, am enjoying watching it all happen.
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I'm-a let you finish, Net_Wrecker -- and I agree with your overall sentiment here, daddeh -- but last night's episode still felt less than the sum of its parts. I do think it'll feel better later, when I can watch another episode immediately after it.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
BorkBork said:
Vox - Twin Peaks episode 10: the series delves deeper into violence against women and American misogyny
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Quotes from this article:

I've always hesitated a bit to call Twin Peaks a ”feminist" show — at least in the colloquial definition of ”feminist art," which usually just means something that either highlights a well-drawn female protagonist or explores the ways horrible things are brought upon women in a patriarchal society.

But Twin Peaks is at least adjacent to that second colloquial definition.
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Plenty of the original Twin Peaks, especially after David Lynch and Mark Frost left, didn't engage with this idea of the world warping and destroying young women — or it did so poorly (the Miss Twin Peaks pageant from late in the second season comes to mind). But it's so baked into the show's DNA, thanks to being present from the very first, that the show can never get away from it for long.
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Twin Peaks doesn't believe relationships between men and women are inherently horrible. Indeed, there's a very sweet scene in ”Part 10" when we get to peek in on Albert and Constance having a quiet dinner for two, one that seems like a little gift from the show to the audience, an oasis from everything else that's happening.

And if nothing else, there's the continued and growing closeness of Janey-E and Cooper/Dougie, who seem as if they're slowly but surely falling in love.
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I was also particularly worried about the treatment about women in the show (Janey-E standing up to the loan sharks notwithstanding), specially considering how many strong female characters were in the original run. But since we are in FWWM-recharged mode, Frost and Lynch are probably highlighting the horrible treatment women receive, specially in non-urban areas.
 
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