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[Reallink]

You mean responsive to the player's intentions? My intentions are never to walk in slow motion. The problem for me is that the slowest walk animation isn't subdued enough. It looks like a midspeed walk animation slowed down. I find it to be more difficult to hold the stick in the position necessary to do a realistic walk than it is to do the ultra slow walk. I can get used to it, but again, it's a pointless change from UC2.

But I don't even think this is a big deal. I brought it up because I thought it might have something to do with the aiming problems. There's nothing useful about being able to move the cursor that slowly. And if it's affecting aiming, which I am not saying it definitely is, then that would be a problem.

A lot of games do adopt what you're proposing, and I hate them for it. They intentionally gimp the analog range cause they can't (or don't want to do) more animations, or existing animations may look silly or unrealistic at any given speed. They are effectively sacrificing player control for something purely superficial.

 

[kneePat]

Odd. All I really care about is the diagonal issue...that's the only part that feels odd and restricting to me.

There are a multitude of issues that are all aiming related. The diagonal issue, while major, is just one of the problems (it probably stems from the new 8 direction-deviation system ND have implemented if you read Arne's blog post but this is just a guess); the input lag will also make it feel like going diagonal is not working right away and you will feel the need to constantly fight the controls because of this reduced responsiveness.

 

[Artex]

There are a multitude of issues that are all aiming related. The diagonal issue, while major, is just one of the problems (it probably stems from the new 8 direction-deviation system ND have implemented if you read Arne's blog post but this is just a guess); the input lag will also make it feel like going diagonal is not working right away and you will feel the need to constantly fight the controls because of this reduced responsiveness.

Whatever it is, I noticed it right away. I wrestled with the aiming in the first couple chapters. I'm only through 7 now, and I definitely believe I've acclimated to them, but I'd love to see it fixed. It really would improve my enjoyment.

 

[Salmonax]

Just checking this thread for the first time since yesterday - have ND given any kind of indication of a fix, or that they're at least looking into one? Looking at the videos, I'm definitely not getting the game until a patch is available.

 

[VeryGooster]

Just checking this thread for the first time since yesterday - have ND given any kind of indication of a fix, or that they're at least looking into one? Looking at the videos, I'm definitely not getting the game until a patch is available.

http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/news/a348920/uncharted-3-gunplay-complaints-addressed.html

Community manager Arne Meyer has confirmed a number of changes since Uncharted 2, such as straight-firing bullets.

"In Uncharted 2 the bullets would leave the barrel at a pre-set deviation when you were aimed in. What this means is that the bullets would not fire straight out of the barrel all the time - they could come out at an angle," he said.

"Therefore, you could have a target clearly in the reticle and still miss it by a wide margin. This was frustrating, because it was difficult to tell why you were missing a target.

"In Uncharted 3 the bullets now fire straight out of the barrel 100% of the time. However, we have recoil - where the reticle moves/bounces as you fire. Therefore, it is easier to tell if you are missing or hitting a target. Now it is much more obvious when you are hitting or missing based on the reticle itself."

Aiming has become more sensitive in Uncharted 3 for a "more precise feel", while the enemies themselves will run faster than previously.

Finally, Arne has explained that AK rifles, which were too accurate in Uncharted 3, now only work properly in close range and with short bursts.

 

[RedRedSuit]

Just checking this thread for the first time since yesterday - have ND given any kind of indication of a fix, or that they're at least looking into one? Looking at the videos, I'm definitely not getting the game until a patch is available.

See OP.

 

[Salmonax]

Ew. In other words:

 

[RedRedSuit]

Ew. In other words:

A bit, yeah. The problem is the issue isn't a totally easy-to-demonstrate one defined technical problem. It's a bit fuzzy what exactly contributes to the problem how much. What's undeniable is that the aiming is compromised as a result.

 

[Salmonax]

A bit, yeah. The problem is the issue isn't a totally easy-to-demonstrate one defined technical problem. It's a bit fuzzy what exactly contributes to the problem how much. What's undeniable is that the aiming is compromised as a result.

Right. My concern is that it's completely systemic to the engine (rather than an isolated component) and that they would have to rebuild it from the ground up, which would mean having to play-test the whole game again...

...which would mean it probably wouldn't happen.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

Right. My concern is that it's completely systemic to the engine (rather than an isolated component) and that they would have to rebuild it from the ground up, which would mean having to play-test the whole game again...

...which would mean it probably wouldn't happen.

Nah man, it's easy. Here's what you do:

1. Go to multiplayer.
2. Highlight aiming model and hit Ctrl+C
3. Go to single-player
4. Hit Ctrl+V
5. Save

See? 5 minutes of work, tops.

 

[hsukardi]

Bad game design. To be fair it's never been one Naughty Dog has ever been known for, but it's shocking. Letdown.

 

[darkwing]

was this posted yet?

http://www.naughtydog.com/site/post/singleplayer_multiplayer_gun_mechanics/

 

[LiK]

Nah man, it's easy. Here's what you do:

1. Go to multiplayer.
2. Highlight aiming model and hit Ctrl+C
3. Go to single-player
4. Hit Ctrl+V
5. Save

See? 5 minutes of work, tops.

lol,nice

 

[RedRedSuit]

was this posted yet?

http://www.naughtydog.com/site/post/singleplayer_multiplayer_gun_mechanics/

See OP.

 

[darkwing]

See OP.

lol too many UC3 threads :|

 

[LiK]

lol too many UC3 threads :|

This is the only one that matters

 

[Salmonax]

was this posted yet?

http://www.naughtydog.com/site/post/singleplayer_multiplayer_gun_mechanics/

Yeah, and it's pretty much the worst part of this debacle. Intimating that your fiercely, wildly loyal fan base is crazy or just playing the game wrong just doesn't seem like a good PR strategy.

 

[hayejin]

Some what related but why did they remove the "chime" that happens on headshots from UC1 and UC2?

 

[Kambing]

I just beat the game and went to try the MP out... started at rank 35 so i played the MP prior to the SP. Why can't they just copy and paste the MP controls into SP... In MP, the controls work brilliantly. This is my conspiracy theory, but maybe some of the UC3 disc contained a bug or some shit to alter the aiming in SP? I mean, if arne or someone could confirm if aiming is supposed to be different in SP or MP that would be great. If they are not supposed to be different, than something is wrong or there is a bug with aiming in SP. If they are supposed to be different why is this the case?

 

[hsukardi]

Yeah, and it's pretty much the worst part of this debacle. Intimating that your fiercely, wildly loyal fan base is crazy or just playing the game wrong just doesn't seem like a good PR strategy.

This is the naive reaction of a game team that doesn't necessarily know how best to react to criticism after longggg hours and hard work.

Naughty Dog, you guys have only made one really good game this generation. Just suck it up and change the game, don't be another one of those developers.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Just beat this game. Mind blown. Not a single game is doing what Uncharted is doing, it's on its own level. Loved every millisecond and am now upset it's over.

 

[Artex]

I just beat the game and went to try the MP out... started at rank 35 so i played the MP prior to the SP. Why can't they just copy and paste the MP controls into SP... In MP, the controls work brilliantly. This is my conspiracy theory, but maybe some of the UC3 disc contained a bug or some shit to alter the aiming in SP? I mean, if arne or someone could confirm if aiming is supposed to be different in SP or MP that would be great. If they are not supposed to be different, than something is wrong or there is a bug with aiming in SP. If they are supposed to be different why is this the case?

Yeah...I don't understand why they would be different. Can anyone say that MP is more like or identical to UC2? If so then maybe we're on to something...

 

[Bad_Boy]

dat desert. wow.

 

[kneePat]

reposting this here as it was in the other thread:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcJ0WrhiUSM

minor spoilers to a part of the game (chapter 13), but does a great job at showing the diagonal issue (if the person that made the video can be trusted to be using the controller the same way)

He compares UC3 and UC2 and show the aim assist and sticky aim as well. Pretty solid evidence that something is up to me. Just compare the diagonals at the beginning of the video and at around the 5:35 mark.

 

[ced]

So now the other thread is locked? I wish we never had two as there is a lot of good info in it, and it was the last place arne posted.

 

[MarshMellow96]

Guess I'll go read this instead...

 

[Salmonax]

So now the other thread is locked? I wish we never had two as there is a lot of good info in it, and it was the last place arne posted.

He did indicate that they're looking into it, which is more than their official "it's not bad, just different" statement seemed to imply. So there may yet be hope.

 

[pigeon interrupted]

I have lost a bit of faith in ND over U3. So many things tweaked and changed that were perfectly tuned in U2, I really question where their heads were at and I never thought I would think that about ND. From the on and off jagfest anti-aliasing solution to the sluggish, sideways lurching movement and god awful aiming. Too much concentration on making things extreeeeme they forgot the important things, imo. I think they tried to add extra weight to the movement/aiming and ballsed it up.

Uncharted 2 was a joy to control, this... not so much.

 

[lowrider007]

So now the other thread is locked? I wish we never had two as there is a lot of good info in it, and it was the last place arne posted.

Can't the mods just merge the threads?

 

[sajj316]

So now the other thread is locked? I wish we never had two as there is a lot of good info in it, and it was the last place arne posted.

So you guys know the last thing arne said on GAF ..

I or we never denied there was an issue. We wanted to explain the changes that were there to add to and clear up any aspects of the debate. At no point did anything we wrote say "you're wrong, we're right, kthxbai"

The fact that we went so far to detail the weapon system meant we were looking into it.

http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=32389629&postcount=430

 

[RuGalz]

Yeah...I don't understand why they would be different. Can anyone say that MP is more like or identical to UC2? If so then maybe we're on to something...

Even if the aiming code were exactly the same for SP and MP, other parts of the game are running different code paths that could interfere due to thread scheduling, post processing, processor usage, etc. There are many ways that something seems so "simple" can break under different conditions.

 

[RedRedSuit]

So you guys know the last thing arne said on GAF ..



http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=32389629&postcount=430

Adding to OP.

 

[Jocchan]

Adding to OP.

Could you also add Papercut's video (post 925 in this thread), please? It shows off clearly the issues people are having.

So you guys know the last thing arne said on GAF ..



http://neogaf.net/forum/showpost.php?p=32389629&postcount=430

He also said:

Either way, we're looking further into the discussion around aiming and what could be behind it all.

Which is very good news.

 

[thetrin]

I have lost a bit of faith in ND over U3. So many things tweaked and changed that were perfectly tuned in U2, I really question where their heads were at and I never thought I would think that about ND. From the on and off jagfest anti-aliasing solution to the sluggish, sideways lurching movement and god awful aiming. Too much concentration on making things extreeeeme they forgot the important things, imo. I think they tried to add extra weight to the movement/aiming and ballsed it up.

Uncharted 2 was a joy to control, this... not so much.

I'm noticing also that (unlike U2) Nate runs around like a wet noodle. His limbs kinda flop around and he stumbles everywhere.

I love the way Nate touches and pushes himself off things when he's near them, but when he's just running around, he looks like his bones have been taken out and he's been filled with liquid.

 

[sajj316]

Could you also add Papercut's video, please? It shows off clearly the issues people are having..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcJ0WrhiUSM .. you welcome OP

 

[AwesomeSauce]

I haven't tried the MP off the disc yet, but played some Co-op and the aiming problem is still present there, but less so. It is especially noticeable when using a weapon that zooms close.

 

[RedRedSuit]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcJ0WrhiUSM .. you welcome OP

Already there for a while, but thanks.

 

[tripleWRECK]

I have lost a bit of faith in ND over U3. So many things tweaked and changed that were perfectly tuned in U2, I really question where their heads were at and I never thought I would think that about ND. From the on and off jagfest anti-aliasing solution to the sluggish, sideways lurching movement and god awful aiming. Too much concentration on making things extreeeeme they forgot the important things, imo. I think they tried to add extra weight to the movement/aiming and ballsed it up.

Uncharted 2 was a joy to control, this... not so much.

I know that feel bro.

Graphics are more uneven, animations are worse, and aiming is obviously a big issue. And don't get me started on the multiplayer...

Don't get me wrong Uncharted 3 is still an excellent game, but I feel it's a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none compared to the incredible Among Thieves.

 

[kneePat]

I know that feel bro.

Graphics are more uneven, animations are worse, and aiming is obviously a big issue. And don't get me started on the multiplayer...

Don't get me wrong Uncharted 3 is still an excellent game, but I feel it's a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none compared to the incredible Among Thieves.

You guys do those awesome videos right? Could you do one for single player UC3 compared to UC2 or UC3 MP?

 

[ced]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcJ0WrhiUSM .. you welcome OP

So can some of you all that say you had no issues with the aiming watch that and at least go to your game and see if your aiming does that in regards to diagonal movement of the reticule?

 

[pigeon interrupted]

I'm noticing also that (unlike U2) Nate runs around like a wet noodle. His limbs kinda flop around and he stumbles everywhere.

I love the way Nate touches and pushes himself off things when he's near them, but when he's just running around, he looks like his bones have been taken out and he's been filled with liquid.

Yeah, I really love the extra little contextual touches like that, but when Nate is running around, head twisting one way, arms flailing, body twisting and lurching coupled with the weird sluggish movement... I dunno. I had lots of trouble hitting a ramp during a foot chase, lol. It felt like I had revved a motorbike too hard and kept taking the corner wide or too tight. I swear if it is a dead zone problem then it is present from the camera controls all the way to the aiming.

 

[webcivilian]

I really thought there was something wrong when I was playing the game. I noticed there was something off. I guess this thread makes a lot of sense.

 

[Gaogaogao]

how the fuck did they break the input lag? they seriously don't feel its important? even the multiplayer has more input lag than uc2 multiplayer.

 

[pigeon interrupted]

I know that feel bro.

Graphics are more uneven, animations are worse, and aiming is obviously a big issue. And don't get me started on the multi-player...

Don't get me wrong Uncharted 3 is still an excellent game, but I feel it's a jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none compared to the incredible Among Thieves.

I hear that. The thing is this is a great game... better than most, but because we have the brilliance of U2 to compare it to, the problems stand out much more.

One thing that shouldn't change is the feel of the shooting controls. That's shooter 101.

 

[sajj316]

You guys do those awesome videos right? Could you do one for single player UC3 compared to UC2 or UC3 MP?

Give it a couple days I'm sure you'll find one on youtube with the label of Nathan "Wet Noodle" Drake in Uncharted 3. Who knows .. maybe someone here will put one together since GAF feeds the internets.

 

[Replicant]

Are many other people bothered by how slow the slowest analog walk is in the game? I think it might stem from the same stick acceleration issue that is hurting aiming, though the "auto-aim" surely isn't helping either.

Why is it so easy to walk in slow motion, in a way that looks ridiculous? I feel like that movement speed should be cut out all together. Same goes for moving the reticule that slowly. It's just not practical or useful. You don't need it to move that slowly to easily line up a shot on a stationary enemy, and you would NEVER move it that slowly if an enemy were on the move.

I'm not just talking about sensitivity, I don't think. It just seems like there's way too much space on the acceleration curve dedicated to incredibly slow movement. I bet this creates the sensation of greater input lag too, as the stick has to travel through that zone of minimal movement before the cursor gets to the speed you want it to move.

I do! I think they put something in the way the character is controlled. I don't know what, but it makes pointing your controller to a specific location and directing your character to go there becoming really awkward and harder. It feels like you have to zig-zag-ing your character to get to a point that you should be able to arrive at just by either diagonal point of the controller.

Yeah, I really love the extra little contextual touches like that, but when Nate is running around, head twisting one way, arms flailing, body twisting and lurching coupled with the weird sluggish movement... I dunno. I had lots of trouble hitting a ramp during a foot chase, lol. It felt like I had revved a motorbike too hard and kept taking the corner wide or too tight. I swear if it is a dead zone problem then it is present from the camera controls all the way to the aiming.

This! Fucking this! I felt like I was steering Agro (that horse from SOC). It was fucking hard to keep Nate on a straight path leading up to a ramp. Maybe it's done for 'realism posturing' but the result makes it annoying and hard to control the character.

 

[Papercuts]

So can some of you all that say you had no issues with the aiming watch that and at least go to your game and see if your aiming does that in regards to diagonal movement of the reticule?

Yeah, I'd actually like to see this too. To me, personally, it's immediately apparent that these controls are messed up and I can't believe others are saying they're perfectly fine, which leads me to believe this is actually a glitch not everyone has.

It'd be easy to just load up chapter 13 if you're there, do the same diagonal tests(make a shape up and right, try to trace to it from the center), and then jump down and see how much pull the reticule has on the enemy, which really doesn't seem right either.

 

[kneePat]

Yeah, I'd actually like to see this too. To me, personally, it's immediately apparent that these controls are messed up and I can't believe others are saying they're perfectly fine, which leads me to believe this is actually a glitch not everyone has.

It'd be easy to just load up chapter 13 if you're there, do the same diagonal tests(make a shape up and right, try to trace to it from the center), and then jump down and see how much pull the reticule has on the enemy, which really doesn't seem right either.

Maybe so but... the scary thought, and according to everything Arne has said, is that all the versions (Review, Retail, Code, and Gold Masters) are universally the same and additionally they are working as intended and always have been. This is where I have serious problems because any sane 'journalist' who has seriously played UC2 would notice something is off, just count the hundreds in this review thread. So if they don't have different copies and they don't see a problem, did they seriously play the same game I am playing, or did they even play the game at all/have adequate time with it?

To NOT mention it is quite astonishing, and if they never experienced it than either there is something wrong with all of us and we're imaging it or they are oblivious to it which would imply they shouldn't be reviewing games in the first place. Or a third and even worse possibility is that they have hitched a ride on the hype train and are basically lying/brushing it aside and throwing away any integrity they had.

 

[H_Prestige]

was this posted yet?

http://www.naughtydog.com/site/post/singleplayer_multiplayer_gun_mechanics/

Really interesting info.

 

[Salmonax]

Really interesting info.

Interesting, but also kind of disheartening that they sidestepped the actual issues people were having.