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[Slayven]

I think we have a lot of conservatives in our ranks pretending to be open minded liberals; secret agents whose only goal is to further soften us up and guilt trip us into taking mercy on oppressors and harassers. They tell us we should be open to dialogue that will never take place and exhibit sympathy that will never be reciprocated because they know that we have the tools and numbers to effectively grind them into dust, but as long as we never have the balls to treat them the way they treat us, they can remain in control.

I hope you're not falling for it.

I agree.

They aren't even saying anything new, just the same bigotry that's been around since jump

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I think we have a lot of conservatives in our ranks pretending to be open minded liberals; secret agents whose only goal is to further soften us up and guilt trip us into taking mercy on oppressors and harassers. They tell us we should be open to dialogue that will never take place and exhibit sympathy that will never be reciprocated because they know that we have the tools and numbers to effectively grind them into dust, but as long as we never have the balls to treat them the way they treat us, they can remain in control.

I hope you're not falling for it.

This, this is spot on. I've felt this way about some people on GAF for a long time since I've been frequenting OT more and more, and I think a lot of them exposed themselves since the aftermath of this election.

Playing to the weaknesses of the left knowing good and goddamn well it gets us nowhere, and then laughing about it when people take the bait.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

The university absolutely has a responsibility to it's students to protect them from hate speech. Milo shouldn't have been allowed to speak not because he has opposite views but because he's a fucking low life piece of trash who needs to get fucked. And anyone with a functioning brain could have figured out this would happen and hey they did and they warned the administration and the administration ignored them.

There is no conversation to be had with that piece of trash, people arguing there is are kidding themselves. You don't get to have your "meaningful" conversations with asswipes like this at the full extent and detriment of students who have done zero wrong to incur any harassment.

Fuck outta here.

 

[Dude Abides]

I just don't understand the desire to characterize this format where one guy is in full control as a "conversation".

 

[Future PhaZe]

This is so fucking heart breaking

 

[brokenwatch]

This whole thread is disappointing. Yes, Milo is a provocateur, a giant douche and a miserable piece of human excrement. But why are people not willing to have a discussion with him and tell him that? You can do that without simply "no-platforming" him and expressing your opinion. If you're not willing to have an honest and open debate with someone who can so easily be shutdown with facts from reality, then maybe you don't really have as much conviction as you think. This should be the debate equivalent of taking out the cat litter.

Why not simply tell him he's a human piece of garbage for insulting a transgender person? I really don't understand this attitude of simply sticking your fingers in your ears and hoping he stops saying things that hurts your feelings, but I guess I'm old.

 

[FF Seraphim]

I dont understand why a university gave him a platform to begin with. We dont need two sides of the conversation when one said is basically telling people they shouldn't exist.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

lol.

one leaves, another takes their place.

 

[The Kree]

This, this is spot on. I've felt this way about some people on GAF for a long time since I've been frequenting OT more and more, and I think a lot of them exposed themselves since the aftermath of this election.

Playing to the weaknesses of the left knowing good and goddamn well it gets us nowhere, and then laughing about it when people take the bait.

I'm not even talking about just GAF. I'm talking in general. College campuses, churches, workplaces, forums, comment sections, anywhere people gather, there are insidious assholes who use our tactic of encouraging inclusiveness to secure a spot for themselves at the table, ensuring that we don't use their tactics of exclusion against them. They cling to some imaginary moral highground wherein they can continue finger wagging at anybody who dares to call out the sheer stupidity and hypocrisy of asking for tolerance of intolerance.

These people are virulent, poisonous, infectious, and they need to be excised immediately. A man like Milo is a parasite who only exists to spread disease, and anyone playing host to him is a fucking idiot and should be treated as a leper.

 

[metalslimer]

This whole thread is disappointing. Yes, Milo is a provocateur, a giant douche and a miserable piece of human excrement. But why are people not willing to have a discussion with him and tell him that? You can do that without simply "no-platforming" him and expressing your opinion. If you're not willing to have an honest and open debate with someone who can so easily be shutdown with facts from reality, then maybe you don't really have as much conviction as you think. This should be the debate equivalent of taking out the cat litter.

Why not simply tell him he's a human piece of garbage for insulting a transgender person? I really don't understand this attitude of simply sticking your fingers in your ears and hoping he stops saying things that hurts your feelings, but I guess I'm old.

Because he doesn't care that you tell him he's a human piece of garbage? At what point were people supposed to have this mythical conversation with him? WHo is sticking their fingers in their ear? I want you to actually explain how give someone a platform to harass a student is a good idea.

Fuck, you agree he is garbage so what in the world is the point of yelling at him that he's a piece of shit? That is as useless as not saying anything at all.

 

[Psychoward]

This whole thread is disappointing. Yes, Milo is a provocateur, a giant douche and a miserable piece of human excrement. But why are people not willing to have a discussion with him and tell him that? You can do that without simply "no-platforming" him and expressing your opinion. If you're not willing to have an honest and open debate with someone who can so easily be shutdown with facts from reality, then maybe you don't really have as much conviction as you think. This should be the debate equivalent of taking out the cat litter.

Why not simply tell him he's a human piece of garbage for insulting a transgender person? I really don't understand this attitude of simply sticking your fingers in your ears and hoping he stops saying things that hurts your feelings, but I guess I'm old.

Please tell me a single instance where Milo offered to have a genuine debate in good faith with someone.

There's nothing to be gained by debating someone who willfully ignores facts and spews hatred.

 

[brokenwatch]

Because he doesn't care that you tell him he's a human piece of garbage? At what point were people supposed to have this mythical conversation with him?

Why does it matter what he cares? If you have a discussion, the target audience is the people listening, not the person who hosted it. You're not trying to convince him he's a giant piece of shit, you're convincing the audience. That's what you do with facts, not with censorship and "no-platform"-ing.

 

[FF Seraphim]

This whole thread is disappointing. Yes, Milo is a provocateur, a giant douche and a miserable piece of human excrement. But why are people not willing to have a discussion with him and tell him that? You can do that without simply "no-platforming" him and expressing your opinion. If you're not willing to have an honest and open debate with someone who can so easily be shutdown with facts from reality, then maybe you don't really have as much conviction as you think. This should be the debate equivalent of taking out the cat litter.

Why not simply tell him he's a human piece of garbage for insulting a transgender person? I really don't understand this attitude of simply sticking your fingers in your ears and hoping he stops saying things that hurts your feelings, but I guess I'm old.

If im reading the article correctly, this wasn't an open forum to pass back and forth ideas. This was just letting Milo speak. If there was an open discussion, im all for that.

 

[Oersted]

This whole thread is disappointing. Yes, Milo is a provocateur, a giant douche and a miserable piece of human excrement. But why are people not willing to have a discussion with him and tell him that? You can do that without simply "no-platforming" him and expressing your opinion. If you're not willing to have an honest and open debate with someone who can so easily be shutdown with facts from reality, then maybe you don't really have as much conviction as you think. This should be the debate equivalent of taking out the cat litter.

Why not simply tell him he's a human piece of garbage for insulting a transgender person? I really don't understand this attitude of simply sticking your fingers in your ears and hoping he stops saying things that hurts your feelings, but I guess I'm old.

This is a guy who wants to tell you are not a human, not discuss it.

You are falling for a blatant redherring.

 

[excelsiorlef]

This whole thread is disappointing. Yes, Milo is a provocateur, a giant douche and a miserable piece of human excrement. But why are people not willing to have a discussion with him and tell him that? You can do that without simply "no-platforming" him and expressing your opinion. If you're not willing to have an honest and open debate with someone who can so easily be shutdown with facts from reality, then maybe you don't really have as much conviction as you think. This should be the debate equivalent of taking out the cat litter.

Why not simply tell him he's a human piece of garbage for insulting a transgender person? I really don't understand this attitude of simply sticking your fingers in your ears and hoping he stops saying things that hurts your feelings, but I guess I'm old.

Because the platform he got was used to do nothing but to harass, slur, and destroy an innocent woman. To drive her away, out of the school.

This wasn't even a talk it was a public harassment campaign.

 

[brokenwatch]

If im reading the article correctly, this wasn't an open forum to pass back and forth ideas. This was just letting Milo speak. If there was an open discussion, im all for that.

If I misunderstood, then fair enough.

 

[Primus]

Why not simply tell him he's a human piece of garbage for insulting a transgender person?

What exactly does this accomplish?

 

[Psychoward]

Why does it matter what he cares? If you have a discussion, the target audience is the people listening, not the person who hosted it. You're not trying to convince him he's a giant piece of shit, you're convincing the audience. That's what you do with facts, not with censorship and "no-platform"-ing.

Oh so now it's censorship by not inviting a piece of shit to your universities huh

 

[metalslimer]

Why does it matter what he cares? If you have a discussion, the target audience is the people listening, not the person who hosted it. You're not trying to convince him he's a giant piece of shit, you're convincing the audience. That's what you do with facts, not with censorship and "no-platform"-ing.

Please tell me at what point were people supposed to stop him from harassing the student? If you wanted students to yell over him speaking then there was no point to having him there in the first place.

 

[Vince_Russo]

This is really sickening. This is how far "ANTI-PC" culture has gone; to the point where we give parasites like this time of day in our universities.

 

[Team Alucard]

This whole thread is disappointing. Yes, Milo is a provocateur, a giant douche and a miserable piece of human excrement. But why are people not willing to have a discussion with him and tell him that? You can do that without simply "no-platforming" him and expressing your opinion. If you're not willing to have an honest and open debate with someone who can so easily be shutdown with facts from reality, then maybe you don't really have as much conviction as you think. This should be the debate equivalent of taking out the cat litter.

Why not simply tell him he's a human piece of garbage for insulting a transgender person? I really don't understand this attitude of simply sticking your fingers in your ears and hoping he stops saying things that hurts your feelings, but I guess I'm old.

Milo has an army of followers who are capable of destroying anyone who dares to cross him. All he has to do is give the signal. This is why he was banned from Twitter. The extreme level of harrassment coming from his posse had gotten out of hand.

Engaging Milo is the worst thing you can do. All you're accomplishing by doing so is exposing yourself to a tremendous level of harassment that is potentially threatening to your physical safety and well-being.

 

[Matty77]

I agree.

They aren't even saying anything new, just the same bigotry that's been around since jump

Having a debate/conversation is the same old dishonest pretend unawareness used to deflect and muddy an actual conversation that they don't want to have.

In fact in the case of at least one poster in this thread I keep expecting to see the phrase "just asking questions" because that was the last face of this tiring tactic I am just sick of and done even entertaining.

 

[brokenwatch]

What exactly does this accomplish?

I don't know, but a free debate of ideas sounds pretty reasonable to me. Especially when you're talking to someone like Milo whose ideas are literally shit.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

This whole thread is disappointing. Yes, Milo is a provocateur, a giant douche and a miserable piece of human excrement. But why are people not willing to have a discussion with him and tell him that? You can do that without simply "no-platforming" him and expressing your opinion. If you're not willing to have an honest and open debate with someone who can so easily be shutdown with facts from reality, then maybe you don't really have as much conviction as you think. This should be the debate equivalent of taking out the cat litter.

Why not simply tell him he's a human piece of garbage for insulting a transgender person? I really don't understand this attitude of simply sticking your fingers in your ears and hoping he stops saying things that hurts your feelings, but I guess I'm old.

A discussion is not targetting and openly degrading a specific individual. It is not going on twitter and organizing a hate campaign against a woman in a movie who has never done anything to deserve such treatment. This dude isn't a smart guy with dissenting opinions who presents respectfully. He's a trolling piece of shit.

This isn't a debate, it's just him continuing his campaign of harassing people. And you know it is.

 

[kame-sennin]

Fuck him, but I still have issues with the idea of no platforming.


Edit: having read more I would acknowledge that this case is different due to the harassment. In general however I stand by the fact that no platforming at universities is somewhat silly. Universities should promote debate and people should question these people rather than stop them from speaking.

You're out of your fucking mind. Fascists will literally kill blacks/jews/muslims/trans if they can't the chance. There ain't no debate to be had.

 

[Psychoward]

This is really sickening. This is how far "ANTI-PC" culture has gone; to the point where we give parasites like this time of day in our universities.

yup

but please tell me more how happy holidays is ruining your culture

 

[brokenwatch]

A discussion is not targetting and openly degrading a specific individual. It is not going on twitter and organizing a hate campaign against a woman in a movie who has never done anything to deserve such treatment. This dude isn't a smart guy with dissenting opinions who presents respectfully. He's a trolling piece of shit.

This isn't a debate, it's just him continuing his campaign of harassing people. And you know it is.

i agree 100%, and that's why I feel it should be so simple to respond to what he says. Not by shutting him down by not allowing him to visit a campus, but by just telling him he's a fucking idiot with shit for brains when his speeches open for questions. Maybe I've had too much to drink, but this seems like a simple problem to solve. :-/

 

[Oersted]

I don't know, but a free debate of ideas sounds pretty reasonable to me. Especially when you're talking to someone like Milo whose ideas are literally shit.

Besides the fact he wasn't there for debate, do you expect people seriously to put their humanity up for debate?

 

[Stumpokapow]

i agree 100%, and that's why I feel it should be so simple to respond to what he says. Not by shutting him down by not allowing him to visit a campus, but by just telling him he's a fucking idiot with shit for brains when his speeches open for questions. Maybe I've had too much to drink, but this seems like a simple problem to solve. :-/

So in this scenario:

Milo: brokenwatch is a fucking faggot and here's his home address if you want to piss on his face I bet he'd like that *uproarious cheering and crowd laughter*
brokenwatch: You're a fucking idiot with shit for brains *crowd, mostly stocked with 4channers, boos loudly*

Is solving the problem?

 

[kame-sennin]

While I'm with most of you in having a personal disdain for Milo and his views, I don't fault the college for allowing him to speak on their campus. We should be open to having a conversation with our political opposition


Obama said it best ->https://youtu.be/mi5da2AhDCY?t=241

Obama's an idiot who's done nothing to stop Trump from taking the highest office in the land.

 

[The Kree]

i agree 100%, and that's why I feel it should be so simple to respond to what he says. Not by shutting him down by not allowing him to visit a campus, but by just telling him he's a fucking idiot with shit for brains when his speeches open for questions. Maybe I've had too much to drink, but this seems like a simple problem to solve. :-/

Not allowing him to speak is a way of telling him he's a fucking idiot. Allowing him to speak gives the impression that his views have merit when they do not.

 

[Jpop]

I don't know, but a free debate of ideas sounds pretty reasonable to me. Especially when you're talking to someone like Milo whose ideas are literally shit.

There was no debate. there was no conversation. There was no dialogue.

There was bigotry. There was sexual harassment. There was discrimination.

This was a targeted hate campaign.

Of a singular individual.

The University was warned. They ignored the warnings and will suffer the consequences.

Please don't hide behind your "Debate" "Conversation" "Freedom of Speech" this was not those.

 

[Gotdatmoney]

i agree 100%, and that's why I feel it should be so simple to respond to what he says. Not by shutting him down by not allowing him to visit a campus, but by just telling him he's a fucking idiot with shit for brains when his speeches open for questions. Maybe I've had too much to drink, but this seems like a simple problem to solve. :-/

Where in the situation you have presented stops a student from being publically targeted and humiliated by a paid speaker? Milo doesn't give a shit if you disagree with him and even if he did that isn't the point. If a KKK member was invited to speak at a university and he went "and that Gotdatmoney character is the worst type of nigger, a total monkey" would your expectation be that we engage this person with genuine desire to debate this disgusting attack while I sit there utterly shamed?

Think about what you are saying man.

 

[brokenwatch]

So in this scenario:

Milo: brokenwatch is a fucking faggot and here's his home address if you want to piss on his face I bet he'd like that *uproarious cheering and crowd laughter*
brokenwatch: You're a fucking idiot with shit for brains *crowd, mostly stocked with 4channers, boos loudly*

Is solving the problem?

Has he posted the home address of anyone? If he has, I apologize, that is horrible and unacceptable.

Also don't really understand your point; I don't think my sexuality is really relevant to this discussion.

 

[oreomunsta]

Maybe I've had too much to drink, but this seems like a simple problem to solve. :-/

There is a simple solution, but it's not what you're proposing.

You're giving people like Milo too much credit. A roach like him just looks for a new place to shout his shit. As long as he does that, he feels empowered enough to keep going on to do it.

 

[Primus]

but by just telling him he's a fucking idiot with shit for brains when his speeches open for questions.

Even though you just told me you don't know what hurling insults at Milo would accomplish, that continues to be your go-to for "challenging" him.

So Milo just spent an hour personally insulting and publicly ridiculing a trans student, to the point where she's now quit the university. Your response is to tell him, "Hey Milo, you're a fucking idiot with shit for brains". He laughs at you, the crowd laughs at you, several call you a cuck, and the microphone is forcefully taken away from you.

Congratulations, you've solved the problem called Milo. Well fucking done.

Maybe I've had too much to drink, but this seems like a simple problem to solve. :-/

Too easy.

EDIT: Oh damn it, Stump.

 

[jellies_two]

I would understand giving someone a chance.

But when you know someone is a pro level troll, you don't need to give them a chance anymore. He has his own platform too (not that that matters), why must he be offered other platforms when his plan is to be destructive?
It's like letting brevik give speeches from the dock. It's just stupid.

 

[Steeped in a Sea of Games]

This whole thread is disappointing. Yes, Milo is a provocateur, a giant douche and a miserable piece of human excrement. But why are people not willing to have a discussion with him and tell him that? You can do that without simply "no-platforming" him and expressing your opinion. If you're not willing to have an honest and open debate with someone who can so easily be shutdown with facts from reality, then maybe you don't really have as much conviction as you think. This should be the debate equivalent of taking out the cat litter.

Why not simply tell him he's a human piece of garbage for insulting a transgender person? I really don't understand this attitude of simply sticking your fingers in your ears and hoping he stops saying things that hurts your feelings, but I guess I'm old.

Ok, so I'm probably falling for bait but...

The dude has a track record. He's not saying anything new here. Why the hell does he need to be given a platform over and over again when we already know he's just going to keep spewing hateful bullshit and targeting people? Telling Milo to fuck off is telling him that you think his ideas are garbage. Even if you let him in, what, people should be bringing graphs and sourced papers to counter every point he makes while he's speaking from a pulpit? You're going to split the engagement so someone can fact check everything he says? I wasn't aware that these speaking engagements were actually in a debate format.

It's like someone sending a letter to my house telling me they're coming over to punch me in the face and having others tell me that I better open the door when they get there because he should have a right to try to take a swing at me.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

You're out of your fucking mind. Fascists will literally kill blacks/jews/muslims/trans if they can't the chance. There ain't no debate to be had.

They know, they just don't fucking care.

 

[Jpop]

Has he posted the home address of anyone? If he has, I apologize, that is horrible and unacceptable.

Also don't really understand your point; I don't think my sexuality is really relevant to this discussion.

And her sexuality was relevant to his "discussion"?

 

[brokenwatch]

Ok, so I'm probably falling for bait but...

The dude has a track record. He's not saying anything new here. Why the hell does he need to be given a platform over and over again when we already know he's just going to keep spewing hateful bullshit and targeting people? Telling Milo to fuck off is telling him that you think his ideas are garbage. Even if you let him in, what, people should be bringing graphs and sourced papers to counter every point he makes while speaking from a pulpit? You're going to split the engagement so someone can fact check everything he says? I wasn't aware that these speaking engagements were actually in a debate format.

It's like someone sending a letter to my house telling me they're coming over to punch me in the face and having others tell me that I better open the door when they get there because he should have a right to try to take a swing at me.

I promise you this is not bait. I just feel like valid ideas prevail over shit ideas in an open an honest debate. Maybe I'm being naive, and I'll stop posting for now, but that's just my opinion.

 

[Platy]

You know ... this talk is making me curious ..

Someone mentioned that Breitbart livestreamed the event ... does they have a recording somehwere ?
They probably have the 20min Q&A in that .... I REALLY want to see how that went

 

[Jpop]

I promise you this is not bait. I just feel like valid ideas prevail over shit ideas in an open an honest debate. Maybe I'm being naive, and I'll stop posting for now, but that's just my opinion.

Before you flee the scene answer my above question.

 

[Vince_Russo]

Has he posted the home address of anyone? If he has, I apologize, that is horrible and unacceptable.

Also don't really understand your point; I don't think my sexuality is really relevant to this discussion.

So it's totally relevant when publicly shaming a transgender person though, right ?

Go away

 

[EnlightenedMint]

Hopefully the student ends up suing and then this sets a precedent for other schools even considering allowing this guy on campus.

 

[Psychoward]

I promise you this is not bait. I just feel like valid ideas prevail over shit ideas in an open an honest debate. Maybe I'm being naive, and I'll stop posting for now, but that's just my opinion.

What you're failing to grasp is Milo doesn't engage in honest debates and any attempts to try will be fruitless.

 

[brokenwatch]

And her sexuality was relevant to his "discussion"?

Relevant to what discussion? If Milo is being a shithead, then it should be straightforward to call him out. I don't think it proves anything by just refusing to allow him to speak. I thought I made that point pretty straightforwardly.

 

[Frozenprince]

They were specifically told that gender discrimination and/or harassment was going to happen.
They did not dismiss it as non-credible, they simply cited that they felt they had a conflicting obligation to promote pluralism or whatever.
Gender discrimination and/or harassment occurred.
It would not have occurred but for their inaction -- not disallowing him from speaking specifically, but doing anything at all.

How would Title IX have any teeth if it did not cover this situation? You keep getting back to "should he be allowed to speak or not" but I am not interested in that question even in the slightest. This is a student who, by name, was harassed and her personal information shared by a speaker that the university was warned was going to be abusive. How could the victim not have recourse in this regard?

Situations just like this are exactly what schools have Title IX departments for.

I fully expect her to sue, and win, because this is outlandish.

 

[brokenwatch]

What you're failing to grasp is Milo doesn't engage in honest debates and any attempts to try will be fruitless.

Fair enough. And I apologize, I said I would leave this thread so I don't monopolize it and I will. I'll check back tomorrow and respond if I have some more feedback or second thoughts.

 

[Psychoward]

Relevant to what discussion? If Milo is being a shithead, then it should be straightforward to call him out. I don't think it proves anything by just refusing to allow him to speak. I thought I made that point pretty straightforwardly.

He's allowed to speak, he shouldn't be invited to speak at the university.


If someone did the exact same thing Milo did but was a student they would probably be expelled for harassment. So why is it okay when an outside actor does it? And why is it okay to give that person an elevated platform to do it?