Yes, when the SCART cable is plugged into the Genesis but not into the RGB cable it powers on.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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GBP's lag is only of the only 1st party devices I've ever played on a CRT where I actually felt the input lag so pronounced. It truly is a shame. But, it's still my go-to device for GBA and I don't see anything ever changing that.
How do GBA games play on Wii U VC? I assume they fixed input lag, but are the frame drops gone? It might be good for a few select titles as my secondary GBA device. Also, how do the games sound?
I'm not an expert but it may be that your TV is trying to take too much power from the RGB cord.
What happens if the scart is plugged into the breakout cable, but the RGB cords are not connected to your TV?
Just checked, the Genesis doesn't power on with the SCART and RGB connected, but not plugged into the TV.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Are you absolutely certain you got the right cable? I thought there was possible confusion over Euro SCART cables and Japanese 21-pin "SCART" cables? I had to make certain I was buying the right cable for my Genesis and found that people have bought the wrong cabling which was meant specifically for XRGB converters.
Well now we know the source of the problem is the breakout cables at least, which seller did you buy them from? Send them a message.
Yeah I'm starting to think this is the problem: that the SCART cable is a Euro one and the BNC cables are based on the Japanese ones.
Here's the original eBay listing:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/201173842608?txnId=1115768146010
Gah, this shit is so frustrating.
Yes, this is a 21 pin breakout cable.
Send me a PM, I know a guy on the shmups forum who makes these and sells them for $25 and they work perfectly. You have to make an account there and make one post before you can send PMs there though. Guy shipped fast too.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Anyone have experience with VGA-to-component transcoders? I'm trying to figure out why the one I have has such an off-centered output. It's so far off-centered on 480p sources that my TV can't display it properly.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUF38mWf6u0
(The audio is a bit loud and distorted, so turn down your volume.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUF38mWf6u0
(The audio is a bit loud and distorted, so turn down your volume.)
Well, swiss is able to force 240p from the GBP via a cheap and accessible SD card reader like the SD Media Launcher. I'd imagine the same sort of thing is possible force the GBP to do other things.
theSlacker
Member
That person on ebay also sells the euro scart version if you don't want to make an account on another forum. It is one of the two that I have and works.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Could be related to this: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/XRGB-3#Bad_scaling_in_B1_mode
Edit: That wiki says that transcoding to component should fix is but in your case it's not. Maybe your box isn't handing the difference between VGA 640x480 and 480p 720x480 properly.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
No.
The transcoder is not changing the resolution. I've already verified that. That's not the issue. The problem is that it is way off-centered.
BONKERS
Member
You know, I played several games years and years ago and don't ever remember noticing anything. I still have my GBP too, maybe I should test and see if I notice it now ha
It would be nice if that guy wouldn't use confusing, incorrect names. There is no such thing as "Japanese SCART". JP21 is not SCART, it uses the same connector but has nothing to do with the SCART standard.
Conversely, saying "Euro SCART" is redundant, SCART is always European.
Conversely, saying "Euro SCART" is redundant, SCART is always European.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Well, all this may be true, but in the post-analog era where everything is HDMI or Displayport or other digital AV connector, I'd say it's very useful to clarify beyond that which may be necessary to avoid confusing non-European or otherwise ignorant users, especially now with retro being delved into by many new global users or those who never knew about these things in the first place. I mean, we're now in the era where there are new gamers who are getting into these things that were never alive to play them when they were the standard.
I also appreciate it. I had no idea RGB even existed growing up. Up until recently, I always thought we jumped straight from S-Video to Component... I had no idea 240p was even a thing either.
Okay folks, I need a SCART switcher. I need 5-6 inputs if possible, though I only require one output. Euro is fine, I'll just update my cables. I currently run things in Japanese RGB21, but clearly I'll never get my hands on a Selecty 21.
I've seen this list:
http://www.videogameperfection.com/2011/11/23/scart-switch-roundup/
But it seems largely inconclusive since so many switches are no longer available, and some that are ranked highly are hotly debated quality-wise. Initially I thought I'd go with the Bandbridge, but I've seen really ugly videos on youTube of the crawl that some units have. Since I'll most likely be importing something and won't be able to easily return it, I'm kind of stuck.
Help me GAF, you're my only hope.
I've seen this list:
http://www.videogameperfection.com/2011/11/23/scart-switch-roundup/
But it seems largely inconclusive since so many switches are no longer available, and some that are ranked highly are hotly debated quality-wise. Initially I thought I'd go with the Bandbridge, but I've seen really ugly videos on youTube of the crawl that some units have. Since I'll most likely be importing something and won't be able to easily return it, I'm kind of stuck.
Help me GAF, you're my only hope.
You could hang out and see if you can make an order with this guy when he's accepting them again: http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?52513-gscartsw-automatic-8-1-SCART-RGB-switch Looks like he also does JP21 now.
theSlacker
Member
People normally sugjest the bandridge one since its good and easy to get a hold of. This is the link to the ebay listing of the one I got months ago. Five inputs, and there is an automatic one available as well if you want that.
It would get really expensive to replace all your game system cables with Euro Scart since you are already invested in JP21. Not sure what you mean about "Crawl" with Bandridge but if you mean the consoles powering whats hooked into AV5 all you do is pop screw covers off the back, open it up, and cut a trace on the circuit board.
This was the link I used too when I got mine a month or so ago, insane price.
There's a YouTube video of the test suite showing odd jitter. I'll try to hunt it down.
I do have a Saturn Euro SCART, I'd just need ones for my Genesis, SNES (which could double for the N64), and Neo Geo Omega. That'll probably run me $50+, but I don't see an alternative unless the Bandbridge can fixed up to run JP21 cables.
What do you mean about the consoles powering the AV5?
MightyHedgehog
Member
I've got mild jailbars, depending on color, coming through this SCART-to-component converter feeding an SD CRT from a launch model 1 Genny. Is there a way to address this?
I just ordered this and should within a week or 2:
Yep, it's a Sync Strike to get direct, full, real RGB. Now I'm going to compare it to my scart to component converter to see any differences in quality(as I suspect that the color will be best on the Sync Strike).
I re-read your post twice and still have no idea what this thing does. Can anyone break it down for a layman?
I think it's a converter for the ol' 240p VGA to SCART. Since both are RGB (and component isn't) you, in theory, shouldn't experience any loss in the picture.
Basically allows you to hook up your 240p retro RGB scart cable console straight to your capture card
Is your Sega Genesis rgb cable composite video or composite sync? Former has them, latter doesn't.
MightyHedgehog
Member
I don't know but the description mentioned the possibility of needing sync calibration, though it sounded like it only applied to XRGB use from the way it was worded.
This is the I one bought based on recommendations across the internet, including here.
That's composite video...composite sync is best for Genesis to reduce jailbars.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Do you have a link to a simple explanation on how to mod it or a link to the right cable? From what I've read, it's a rewiring and soldering of a sync cable inside of the console to one of connections on the encoder chip? Is that right? It's no massive deal, but I do notice it on certain games more than others based on the colors used and it's not anywhere as blatant as it is on lesser outputs. Feels a tad bit on the OCD side to want to futz with it at this point, but I'm curious.
theSlacker
Member
She sells both versions for genesis, but it can be a pain when you were recommended to buy from here and only one is in stock, not even showing the other, so you think that is the only one.
To be fair though even with the composite sync cable the very early models of the genesis can still show jailbars. I had to cut a peg inside my system to make them not visible on mine. It is very small and can be hard not to mess up, not to mention that doing it removes the option of using other kinds of outputs from the system. Will go into more detail if you are interested, but would have to know the motherboard revision of your system to even know if it is the same as mine.
MightyHedgehog
Member
It's a VA2 if that's what you're asking. Thanks for the info, and I would like to know what the process is if you have a link or the time to type it up, whichever is easiest.
Yeah that's probably true but later Model 1 revisions are less prone to jailbars.=O
theSlacker
Member
Correct. VA6 and up I believe, but VA6 is also where TMSS starts. I also believe that VA6 is the sweet spot, even though it has TMSS it still has "High Definition Graphics" printed on it and the better sound, and with much lower jail bar appearance then the previous revisions. After VA6 is when the bad sound started, I think starting with VA7. This is all off memory so don't quote me. :3
Before saying anything else I am going to warn you that you can very easily damage your system by doing anything that I say. That even doing it properly will make it so you can no longer run any other output but RGB without doing additional modding. I also fully recommend waiting for that seller to have some composite sync cables back in stock to see if the jail bars are tolerable with them before doing anything permanent to your system. Also I should ask how your jailbars look? As in are the only on the color blue? If they are across all colors then that isn't what this will fix.
The problem with the early revisions of the Genesis and jail bars is apparently cross contamination between the "subcarrier" and "blue" signals. The subcarrier signal starts at pin 50 of the VPD, and goes though the motherboard to pin 6 of the video encoder. Thus lifting pin 50 of the VPD or pin 6 of the video encoder "fixes" the problem. Or cutting the trace on the motherboard between the two. I put quotations around "fixes" because the problem may still be apparent inside the VPD and some people report faint jailbars even after lifting the pin. Depending of what you choose to do you will run into different problems. The pins on the VPD are really really small, and close together. By trying to lift pin 50 you run the risk of damaging the pins next to it. If you want to lift pin 6 of the video encoder instead you will need to remove the heat sync from the motherboard, which can be a pain. I personally did pin 50 of the VPD, as it is the closest to the start of the problem that you can get to, and I have a set of small tools. This completely removed all apparent jailbars for me, but doesn't mean it will work fully for you. People have reports of the same results from lifting pin 6 of the video encoder, and I don't have a way to compare the two choices. References follow:
This is a post in a thread discussing the issue that shows the result of lifting pin 50 Consider reading all of the thread as it discusses the problem a lot.
This is a post from another forum atempting the same fix as in the assemblergames thread. A problem you will run into with looking for info about a lot of this are dead pics from threads that are years and years old. That post is an example of this, but the thread can still have some good information.
Here is a youtube video going over the pin 6 of the video encoder method. Be warned that he is working on a megadrive of a later revision, whereas the VA2's video encoder is flipped so pin 6 would be on the other side. The pins on any chip will be numbered at the beginning and end of the row, printed on the motherboard itself, so always make sure to double check your own motherboard since different revisions will have different orientation.
This is a motherboard diagram for the genesis. Not that it will not make much sense unless you understand what you are looking at. Orientation isn't accurate, nether is pin placement, as they will group things together in ways that they aren't on the actual motherboard to make it easier to show where the leads go. As in the numbers are all in order on the actual motherboard, not all mixed up across it.
And this is a picture of the VA2 motherboard, where I have outlined the VPD and Video Encoder units in black, and labeled them in red. Note that the heatsync has been removed in that picture already.
I hope this helps you. Remember that this is your system that you will be working on so make sure to double check anything that I have said.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Man, that is above and beyond the call... Thanks, man, this is exactly the sort of all-in-one source for the topic. I'm sure I'll find time to get this done this weekend. And, yes, blue is the common color involved with my jailbars.
digita1alchemy
Member
theSlacker
Member
That is the one I use as well, and recommend it to MightyHedgehog unless he has some other mod to his system that gets him stereo sound, since it get's it's sound from the one place the starting models had stereo from, the headphone jack. Depending on your system revision a cable isn't going to completely remove jailbars though. As mentioned above the first few motherboards for the Genesis have a problem with the "subcarrier" and "blue" signals interfering with each other all the way from inside the VPD. For instance, my VA6 motherboard genesis had no jail bars at all with that cable, while my VA2 one did. This doesn't mean that all VA2-5s will have them, just the cable can't fully fix what is wrong in the system. Depending on anything from the monitor you are using to the age and wear of the system you may never get them, I really don't know.
It is kinda like the white line/glow down the center of the screen for the SNES. Some people have never seen it and didn't even know it existed, but it is possible on all the non 1chip/mini snes revisions. Good luck with your system.
Good luck if you plan on going though with it, and still look into that other cable. If you don't fully comprehend what you are getting into feel free to pm me with any questions or clarifications you need.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Is yours a VA2 board as well? If I can spend around $25 to avoid the possibility of killing my original Genny, one of the only pieces of video game hardware I have any emotional attachment to at all, I'll go with that. Not averse to doing it under the hood, but I await your impressions.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Yeah, it looks like all I need, in terms of info, is what you've provided in your post, but I will wait to see what's up with the cable alternative.
theSlacker
Member
Still look into that cable since it does pull stereo sound from the microphone jack in the front. Got to be careful about not bending it since it is an extra cable, but other then that it works great. If I saw when you were asking about what cable to get that is the one I would have recommended for the model 1.
i felt like sharing this showing how an N64 game looks at 1080p with the XRGB and using RGB (the N64 is RGB modded)
isn't that comparison a bit unfair since one plays games on hardware natively (GBP) and the other is full emulation (VC)?
isn't that comparison a bit unfair since one plays games on hardware natively (GBP) and the other is full emulation (VC)?
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
The Game Boy Player might have actual GBA hardware in it, but the implementation is so lacking that competent emulation ought to be a better experience imo.
That... doesn't look as good as I expected.
BONKERS
Member
Low Res 3D is Low Res.
Not much more to be expected. Especially when upscaling a 320x240p 3D game. (or 640x480. I don't recall F-Zero's specifically, but i'm leaning towards the former)
76,800 pixels (Or 307,200 | 480p) vs 2,073,600 pixels
I'm sure it looks glorious on a CRT though over RGB. And that's what I took out of the video.
Yeh it looks lovely on a PVM. I just thought the XRGB would do a better job.
D.Lo
Member
Holy shit you can drive...
Fzero X is one of those games that gave up everything for performance, so was never particularly good looking though. But made choppy-ass wipeout look like crap in comparison.
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