bitoriginal
Member
Apologies, I edited because I do have a component cable. Still doesn't look great though.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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Apologies, I edited because I do have a component cable. Still doesn't look great though.
speedlolita
Member
The Xbox component output isn't bad at all, I dont know why people would think that. Perfect? No. But compared to the PS2, or even the PS3, it is great.
You've reminded me that someone has offered me a nearly new Halo LE NTSC machine and THPS 2X for £20. Need to go and collect that next weekend I think.
And of course, source some official component cables.
1st I heard of that, I'll keep that in mind. Though I read about the Sync Strike and it seems cheaper and even recommended for my capture device so I'll look into that as well.
Really what make is it, those Pelican only seem available in the states and shipping cost to the UK are as much again
i do but i never noticed that since i spent very little time in that menu.
Friend of Sonic
Member
I can't help you but do you get a lot of audio buzz in that menu? Just curious if it's mine or it happens to everyone
Friend of Sonic
Member
Hmm... thank you. Maybe it's my everdrive or my scart cable
No buzzing here. I even tried cranking it up to test it out.
Friend of Sonic
Member
Damn. Weird. Maybe I need to ask Krizz. Thanks for checking
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
The Xbox component output isn't bad at all, I dont know why people would think that. Perfect? No. But compared to the PS2, or even the PS3, it is great.
Wait, where is this "Xbox video output is bad" nonsense coming from? That shit is immaculate over component.
And the sound quality out of that thing is also fantastic.
It's not bad, but it's not up to the standard of the GC or the DC in the same generation.
Friend of Sonic
Member
Does anyone know someone that would mod a 7800 for S-video?
D.Lo
Member
It's significantly and visibly worse than Gamecube component or Dreamcast VGA. Easily testable by playing games from those systems ported to Xbox. It's washed out and colours are worse, no matter how much you adjust the monitor.
Yes it's a switch in the settings in the latest firmware. 'Low res' menu or something?
baphomet
Member
I'm pretty sure it's the pelican one. Let me double check when I'm home, but if you want it we'll get it over there cheap.
BONKERS
Member
Component breakout box is all that is "Official"
baphomet
Member
I believe it was a Pelican, but I can't say for certain. It was definitely a company I had heard of before, because I specifically remember thinking "huh, didn't know they made scart cables."
I did just check it on my mini and it works just fine. If you want to work something out pm me and we can hash out the details.
Edit: after looking up the box online it was definitely the pelican one.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
I thought that was the case, too, until last week:
These were released in late 2004, and still have the optical audio jack. Supposedly, the video quality is slightly better with these, too, though I haven't verified that for myself.
I thought that was the case, too, until last week:
These were released in late 2004, and still have the optical audio jack. Supposedly, the video quality is slightly better with these, too, though I haven't verified that for myself.
These output a better image than both the official PS2 and GCN's component cables to my eyes. I have all three.
However, take my opinion with a grain of salt. My OG Xbox hasn't been hooked up in a few years and I'm going based memory.
D.Lo
Member
PS2, yeah it's like 6/10, Xbox 6-8/10, GCN 10/10 for component (Wii 8/10).
The Gamecube component cables have an extremely high quality DAC made by Macronix in them.
The original Xbox depended on model, bizarrely in its short four years of life there were like 15 variations - MS did lose $4 billion on the console (US$166 for every console 'sold'), so were obviously trying to cut costs, and many different cheap off-the-shelf video encoders were used throughout its life. Maybe one of the chips was good (perhaps launch consoles?), but I've never seen one that was anywhere near the Macronix.
FYI, my OG Xbox was indeed a launch console.
I also think the GCN cables are a bit overhyped to be perfectly honest with you. They're great, but not the be all end all of IQ. However, they are definitely a step above PS2's.
But I really don't see much difference compared to the Wii's cables even though people are convinced there is a discernable one. Edit: I tried to directly compare the difference of the same infamous menu from F-Zero GX used in comparison pics between the GCN and Wii's outputs and both of them looked like the "sharper" picture on my setup. Each was directly wired to my Panasonic Viera with no intervening devices or switches.
Take from this what you will, but if you're looking to get the best possible image quality from GCN games, I think Wii's component cables will absolutely do a great job. I wouldn't shell out the $200 for the GCN component unless you want GB Player support.
D.Lo
Member
I've always noticed a difference GCN to Wii. Yes not a $200 difference, but I remember when I first got the Wii how I was disappointed in the output. Both were running into my Panasonic CRT at the time, and it was just a bit more washed out.
PAL Xbox had DISGUSTING output, and when I softmodded it to force NTSC 480p it only got to 'good'.
I now run my GCN games on Wii anyway using widescreen hacks etc. Not as much difference on my Panasonic Plasma, which scales 480p very very nicely, but scaled is scaled - the difference in output quality is diminished when you're scaling to seven times the pixels on your screen.
Maybe I should sell my component cables. But I got them from Nintendo Australia for AU$35 delivered back in the day (that was when the AU dollar was US$0.5 too!), and they did me so well for years,
PAL Xbox had DISGUSTING output, and when I softmodded it to force NTSC 480p it only got to 'good'.
I now run my GCN games on Wii anyway using widescreen hacks etc. Not as much difference on my Panasonic Plasma, which scales 480p very very nicely, but scaled is scaled - the difference in output quality is diminished when you're scaling to seven times the pixels on your screen.
Maybe I should sell my component cables. But I got them from Nintendo Australia for AU$35 delivered back in the day (that was when the AU dollar was US$0.5 too!), and they did me so well for years,
The Wii probably has had dozens of hardware revisions over its long lifespan though. Maybe some models have better component output quality, just like the OG Xbox.
With the gamecube you're guaranteed to have good quality because the DAC is on the cable itself, and there probably is only a single version of it.
With the gamecube you're guaranteed to have good quality because the DAC is on the cable itself, and there probably is only a single version of it.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I'm actually in the middle of running a side-by-side Gamecube vs Wii test right now.
There's definitely a measurable difference. Whether that difference is actually perceptible and significant is a different matter.
There's definitely a measurable difference. Whether that difference is actually perceptible and significant is a different matter.
You know that's something I never considered. I thought, after testing it for myself and seeing the results of other people testing it, that the F Zero pic that everyone throws around was just done wrong and that the Wii pic was in 480i. It is possible that maybe it was just a bad Wii model...I wonder if there are differences.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
D.Lo
Member
At least for the first three years, the Wii had the exact same DAC. This was known when the first Wii softmod video hacks came in, the chip can be set instructions on video mode, and all Wii consoles could take the same instructions.
Cheers, gonna check this out!
Which side is which in the stills? Gamecube on the left?
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Yes.
Thought so from the colour bleed check, but to be honest that's the only one I can really see a difference on. Maybe pluge and colour bars too actually, but way more subtle.
baphomet
Member
Excellent comparison.
sixteen-bit
Member
well done sixfo'
Well done, but the only big difference I saw was in the color bleed(which is worse on the Wii).
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Testing the timing differences on GBP vs SGB2 vs GBA next.
The input lag on the GBP is bad. Like, immediately, obviously bad. Not even sure I'm going to bother with the 240p hacks if the SGB2 is better in this regard.
The input lag on the GBP is bad. Like, immediately, obviously bad. Not even sure I'm going to bother with the 240p hacks if the SGB2 is better in this regard.
D.Lo
Member
Ah now that I am interested in.
There is no perfect hardware GBA on TV it seems. Or software in my experience.
baphomet
Member
Yea its unfortunate, but its the best way to play GBC and GBA games on a monitor.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Stuff used:
- US SNES-101 w/ JP SGB2
- US GCN w/ US GBP (running at 480p)
- US GBC
- US GBA
- US Super Mario Land
Stutter:
- The Super Game Boy 2 repeats a single frame at regular intervals. Every 161st frame is a duplicate of the one that precedes it.
- The Game Boy Player also repeats frames, but more erratically and severely. About 4 to 5 seconds will play normally, then there will be a burst of 5 to 8 duplicate frames in less than half a second.
Overall speed:
- The Super Game Boy 2 runs at 100.188% the speed of both the Game Boy Color and Game Boy Advance. This means that if you start the same game on the GBA and the SGB2 at the same time, and then play them in the exact same manner, you'd finish on the SGB2 slightly faster. Reportedly, the SGB1 is much less accurate and runs considerably faster.
- The Game Boy Player runs at exactly the same speed as the Game Boy Advance. If there is a difference, the GBP is still more than 99.999% accurate to the GBA's speed.
Input lag:
- I don't have the means to actually measure this, but the lag on the Game Boy Player definitely seems more pronounced than that of the Super Game Boy 2. It's very easy to feel the lag on the GBP, even on a CRT.
- US SNES-101 w/ JP SGB2
- US GCN w/ US GBP (running at 480p)
- US GBC
- US GBA
- US Super Mario Land
Stutter:
- The Super Game Boy 2 repeats a single frame at regular intervals. Every 161st frame is a duplicate of the one that precedes it.
- The Game Boy Player also repeats frames, but more erratically and severely. About 4 to 5 seconds will play normally, then there will be a burst of 5 to 8 duplicate frames in less than half a second.
Overall speed:
- The Super Game Boy 2 runs at 100.188% the speed of both the Game Boy Color and Game Boy Advance. This means that if you start the same game on the GBA and the SGB2 at the same time, and then play them in the exact same manner, you'd finish on the SGB2 slightly faster. Reportedly, the SGB1 is much less accurate and runs considerably faster.
- The Game Boy Player runs at exactly the same speed as the Game Boy Advance. If there is a difference, the GBP is still more than 99.999% accurate to the GBA's speed.
Input lag:
- I don't have the means to actually measure this, but the lag on the Game Boy Player definitely seems more pronounced than that of the Super Game Boy 2. It's very easy to feel the lag on the GBP, even on a CRT.
Now why in the hell does the GBP repeat so many frames? I wonder if that's fixable through a soft hack.
Edit: Also, If you blow up SixFour's images up on a 1080p monitor, you can tell in almost every comparison that the Wii has a fuzzy image. It's actually pretty bad. Some shots even look like RGB Vs S-video/composite or something. The difference was always drastic for me in real life as well. From the moment I popped RE4 Wii edition in my system I was like "What the hell is this Vaseline filter?!"
Edges are much cleaner in the GC screens and text is easier to read.
Edit: Also, If you blow up SixFour's images up on a 1080p monitor, you can tell in almost every comparison that the Wii has a fuzzy image. It's actually pretty bad. Some shots even look like RGB Vs S-video/composite or something. The difference was always drastic for me in real life as well. From the moment I popped RE4 Wii edition in my system I was like "What the hell is this Vaseline filter?!"
Edges are much cleaner in the GC screens and text is easier to read.
BONKERS
Member
Very interesting. I was going to say, "Maybe the Wii subsamples chroma at some point" But then thought some more and saw the part where captures are only at 4:2:2. So perhaps is just like a 1 pixel shift of the individual chroma channels or weak amplification.
Otherwise though, Wii seems plenty good enough. Considering the price difference :|
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/93666
If you look hard enough, you can see the same 1px shift on the greyscale "White" as well
PumpkinSpice
Banned
I've been thinking about trying to modify the GBP software to not have these issues but I don't have a way to run homebrew on my GC.
Even better if someone could develop something from the ground up for GBP hardware that worked better than the normal GBP software. GBP with Super Gameboy borders would be kinda cool.
So I'm having some trouble with my new SCART cable and RGB inputs for my Genesis on my PVM. While plugged into the PVM monitor via SCART and RGB, the system will straight up not power on. Even tried it with two different model 1 systems: same thing occured. Previously had my SNES hooked up to it with S-video and it worked fine. I did a search for info for a problem similar to this and can find zero info. Yes, before the obvious is asked, I'm using the correct power supply, and it is plugged into the outlet.
If it helps at all it's a PVM-8042Q.
If it helps at all it's a PVM-8042Q.
Where did you get your cables from? Does your PVM go straight to SCART or are you using another cable to go from SCART to BNC? If you unplug the SCART cable, after switching the system off, and turn it on without the SCART cable plugged in, does the power LED come on?
Cables were purchased from ebay. It's a Genesis output with SCART, and it plugs into a female SCART end connected to the BNC cables. Yes the system turns on when the SCART cable is not plugged in.
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