BONKERS
Member
Well it is only a scaler. But also: Youtube recompresses a compressed video.
So if the poster could upload the actual video file to a place like Mega.co.nz, you'd be able to have a better representation with less compression.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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Well it is only a scaler. But also: Youtube recompresses a compressed video.
So if the poster could upload the actual video file to a place like Mega.co.nz, you'd be able to have a better representation with less compression.
It makes other 240p stuff look beautiful though, pretty close to a CRT. Maybe it needs to have scan lines on or something?
*shrug* I don't own an XRGB and have never seen one in person, I just use a PVM.
So upscalers don't really work for 3D games?
D.Lo
Member
N64 is 240p.
Yes they do. They work exactly as well as they do for 2D games. The Framemeister s great for N64 and PS1.
Some games look ridiculously good. Mario 64, Banjo, Silent Hill, MGS, Resident Evil 2 - generally the decent performing games. Choppy, and highly detailed games suffer from the low resolution which is more visible on bigger screens than it was back in the day.
Does the XRGB mini add scanlines to composite signals? I know everyone and their mother will tell me "don't use composite" for XRGB.
But assume I don't want to mod my NES, and I will use RGB for all of my other systems. Can it add scanlines to my NES composite signal? Even though it'll still look like lossy garbage, the scanlines should still help give it a nicer look, correct?
But assume I don't want to mod my NES, and I will use RGB for all of my other systems. Can it add scanlines to my NES composite signal? Even though it'll still look like lossy garbage, the scanlines should still help give it a nicer look, correct?
sixteen-bit
Member
Yes, you can scanline up your composite signal with XRGB mini
I know it doesn't change the rendering, lol. I guess I just thought it'd make it look nice like on a CRT.
I guess in my brain I think of the XRGB as a replacement for a CRT, when I should probably think of it more as just something that makes shit look better on a modern TV instead. N64 looks horrible on a modern TV so I guess the relative jump still means it won't look as good as say, SNES, which looks better than the N64 in the first place on a modern TV.
robot
Member
I use my xrgb mini for my composite famicom and it looks great. Not nearly as good as w/ my other systems through RGB, but way better than it did on my LED before. I plan on modding my famicom now that I've seen what RGB can do, but composite will still impress you.
I have some shots on my IG feed if you want to take a look.
Looks pretty good.
D.Lo
Member
I think of it as a replacement for a CRT, and I have one as well as a Sony PVM.
CRTs are great, but take up heaps of space and don't get anywhere near as large as plasmas etc. And the largest CRTs, like my old 68cm flat screen 4:3 Panasonic CRT (the best CRT I've ever had, including PVMs) had geometry issues.
RGB modded N64 on my 1080p Panasonic plasma though the Framemeister is the best the N64 has ever looked IMO. It's ridiculously good actually.
Interesting! I keep hearing conflicting things. Can you post some pics? Does yours look better than that video?
Wow, the XRGB mini actually made composite look decent...now I'm a bit tempted again.
Same here. Can anyone recommend a reputable seller who ships to the US?
Also, does anyone have any thoughts on the Panasonic the BT-H1350Y RGB monitor? Someone near me is willing to part with it for pretty cheap. I might get it for my desk as a separate thing from my main gaming setup.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Even though I prefer the 3 over other scalers, I wouldn't call it a "deal" unless you were getting it for $200 or less. Maybe if it came complete in box.Oh man, I may have a deal for a XRGB3.
It's a guy I dealt with to mod my Genesis before, his stuff seems all MINT with the box and all the cables. He's selling it for 275$ and after looking for one on Ebay, it sounds like a great deal!
From just glancing at sold listings on Yahoo Japan Auctions, I can spot an XRGB-1 for 7500, an XRGB-2+ with adapter cables for 8000, an XRGB-2 for 12000, and an XRGB-3 CIB for 13000.
theSlacker
Member
I'll be more interested when they can fix the problem with the black screen wait in games that switch resolutions for things. Sure, it is a small amount of games, but sticking with my crt's until then.
baphomet
Member
Oh man, I may have a deal for a XRGB3.
It's a guy I dealt with to mod my Genesis before, his stuff seems all MINT with the box and all the cables. He's selling it for 275$ and after looking for one on Ebay, it sounds like a great deal!
Yea that's definitely not a deal for an xrgb3.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
This is sort of off-topic but pertains to second-hand retro gaming in general, specifically buying or selling on the internet.
I moved recently, and before I did, I offloaded a lot of items in my collection on eBay for the first time in several years. (Some of you might have picked up a few items in the BST thread here as well.) I live in the US, and one thing that I noticed on this round of selling is that I got a lot more interest from international buyers than I used to in the past. For example, a lot of either common or generally undesirable Genesis games that I wasn't able to sell individually on GAF ended up selling on eBay for an average of $5 per game, in auction format, despite having a very low starting bid ($1 per game), not including shipping. Literally every bid on this particular auction was from either Brazil or Russia, from about 4 or 5 individual users. I was pretty pleased with the sale price since I was just cleaning house and didn't expect to get much from this particular lot. Some other listings went a similar way, and I attributed most of this to either a more knowledgeable modern PAL audience seeking 60hz games or maybe even a weaker dollar or something, but I've discovered recently that it's probably eBay's GSP that put a lot more international eyes on my listings, specifically because I don't use it.
When I started listing my items in the summer, I kept getting nag screens to enroll in eBay's relatively new Global Shipping Program, which wasn't around the last time I sold anything on the website. The sales pitch to US sellers is pretty simple: Instead of having to fill out customs information for international purchases and risk shipments being lost in a particularly unreliable overseas postal system, all you have to do is mail your shipment to eBay's US distribution center, and they'll cover it from there, offering international tracking on all packages and shielding you from any further liability as long as you can deliver the item to eBay, since any mishaps from that point on would be completely out of your hands. Not a bad sales pitch, but I declined for what was (to me, anyway) an obvious reason: it inserts another middle-man into the transaction that would likely take a significant chunk of my potential earnings. eBay doesn't disclose the costs of the program to US sellers at all (what specific fees there are, how much those fees are, and who pays for them), but from personal experience with courier services that I've had to go through to buy some stuff from Japan, I expected that they'd be fairly significant. So, I opted out of the program and never really gave it a second thought. Filling out a customs form myself is hardly difficult or time-consuming.
It turns out, though, that a lot of US sellers that sell internationally, definitely most of them, are enrolled in the GSP now. And I've heard that not only are the courier fees significant, but they tend to always impose import duty fees on top of everything, even on shipments that would be well below the tax thresholds for international commerce set by most countries. I've also read stories about the GSP distribution center opening packages and removing some of the packing material to lighten the load and skimp on shipping costs.
With all of that in mind, it's not surprising that my auctions that offer basic First Class International shipping (the lowest rate offered by USPS for most shipments) draw a lot of international eyes compared to similar item listings on eBay.
Something to keep in mind if you're in the market at all. If I lived overseas I'd definitely ask certain sellers if they would be willing to circumvent the GSP. I doubt most of them even consider it since the extra costs are hidden from them altogether.
I moved recently, and before I did, I offloaded a lot of items in my collection on eBay for the first time in several years. (Some of you might have picked up a few items in the BST thread here as well.) I live in the US, and one thing that I noticed on this round of selling is that I got a lot more interest from international buyers than I used to in the past. For example, a lot of either common or generally undesirable Genesis games that I wasn't able to sell individually on GAF ended up selling on eBay for an average of $5 per game, in auction format, despite having a very low starting bid ($1 per game), not including shipping. Literally every bid on this particular auction was from either Brazil or Russia, from about 4 or 5 individual users. I was pretty pleased with the sale price since I was just cleaning house and didn't expect to get much from this particular lot. Some other listings went a similar way, and I attributed most of this to either a more knowledgeable modern PAL audience seeking 60hz games or maybe even a weaker dollar or something, but I've discovered recently that it's probably eBay's GSP that put a lot more international eyes on my listings, specifically because I don't use it.
When I started listing my items in the summer, I kept getting nag screens to enroll in eBay's relatively new Global Shipping Program, which wasn't around the last time I sold anything on the website. The sales pitch to US sellers is pretty simple: Instead of having to fill out customs information for international purchases and risk shipments being lost in a particularly unreliable overseas postal system, all you have to do is mail your shipment to eBay's US distribution center, and they'll cover it from there, offering international tracking on all packages and shielding you from any further liability as long as you can deliver the item to eBay, since any mishaps from that point on would be completely out of your hands. Not a bad sales pitch, but I declined for what was (to me, anyway) an obvious reason: it inserts another middle-man into the transaction that would likely take a significant chunk of my potential earnings. eBay doesn't disclose the costs of the program to US sellers at all (what specific fees there are, how much those fees are, and who pays for them), but from personal experience with courier services that I've had to go through to buy some stuff from Japan, I expected that they'd be fairly significant. So, I opted out of the program and never really gave it a second thought. Filling out a customs form myself is hardly difficult or time-consuming.
It turns out, though, that a lot of US sellers that sell internationally, definitely most of them, are enrolled in the GSP now. And I've heard that not only are the courier fees significant, but they tend to always impose import duty fees on top of everything, even on shipments that would be well below the tax thresholds for international commerce set by most countries. I've also read stories about the GSP distribution center opening packages and removing some of the packing material to lighten the load and skimp on shipping costs.
With all of that in mind, it's not surprising that my auctions that offer basic First Class International shipping (the lowest rate offered by USPS for most shipments) draw a lot of international eyes compared to similar item listings on eBay.
Something to keep in mind if you're in the market at all. If I lived overseas I'd definitely ask certain sellers if they would be willing to circumvent the GSP. I doubt most of them even consider it since the extra costs are hidden from them altogether.
D.Lo
Member
Exactly right Sixfortyfive, we were discussing it in the SNES thread.
The Global Shipping Program is an absolute scam that is a nightmare for us international buyers. It costs between 2 and 3 times USPS actual price, even with tracking.
And bizarrely, it shows a LOWER postage price in the list of items, then it goes up when you to the actual listing page, false advertising right from the start. The listing itself goes on about 'all fees included' etc when there are no fees for anything under $1000 to Australia.
Once bought, you then watch your item (via tracking) circle the US for up to two weeks before it even leaves the country, despite being advertised as 'global express'. It is potentially OPENED AND RE-PACKED by ebay's middleman, a dodgy courier company called Pitney-Bowles, who at least in one case of mine was re-packed in less packaging to save postage costs. Insane - the seller managed to show me a photo of the original packaging, which was in a box, I received the item in a bag!
Then when it is finally gets to Australia (in my case), it's delivered as ECONOMY by Fedex, so takes a week internally! Then fedex, unlike regular postage, only delivers during business hours, and doesn't leave items at the local post office for collection, only at their centres, of which there are only a couple in Sydney.
Takes over three weeks, is potentially damaged by re-packing, and you pay ~$30 for mail of an NES game, when non-GSP sellers ship for $10.
Ebay is a bad company. I avoid GSP listings in all cases, nothing is worth all that bullshit.
The Global Shipping Program is an absolute scam that is a nightmare for us international buyers. It costs between 2 and 3 times USPS actual price, even with tracking.
And bizarrely, it shows a LOWER postage price in the list of items, then it goes up when you to the actual listing page, false advertising right from the start. The listing itself goes on about 'all fees included' etc when there are no fees for anything under $1000 to Australia.
Once bought, you then watch your item (via tracking) circle the US for up to two weeks before it even leaves the country, despite being advertised as 'global express'. It is potentially OPENED AND RE-PACKED by ebay's middleman, a dodgy courier company called Pitney-Bowles, who at least in one case of mine was re-packed in less packaging to save postage costs. Insane - the seller managed to show me a photo of the original packaging, which was in a box, I received the item in a bag!
Then when it is finally gets to Australia (in my case), it's delivered as ECONOMY by Fedex, so takes a week internally! Then fedex, unlike regular postage, only delivers during business hours, and doesn't leave items at the local post office for collection, only at their centres, of which there are only a couple in Sydney.
Takes over three weeks, is potentially damaged by re-packing, and you pay ~$30 for mail of an NES game, when non-GSP sellers ship for $10.
Ebay is a bad company. I avoid GSP listings in all cases, nothing is worth all that bullshit.
sixteen-bit
Member
Yakumo used to sell on here too. Apparently he's banned though.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=98274092&postcount=1570
the lack of 60 fps on youtube murdered this.
F-Zero X is a game that really shines when you see it running at 60 fps.
(i also lack a capture card that can record 1080p60 so the point is moot until i get a new capture card)
BONKERS
Member
Oh, I see, I guess they're all overpriced on Ebay then, as most things are.
It's a decent price though, right? It's not like I'm getting screwed either?
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
It's decent if it's CIB and in good condition. Solaris sells them new for $300 + shipping.Oh, I see, I guess they're all overpriced on Ebay then, as most things are.
It's a decent price though, right? It's not like I'm getting screwed either?
I got mine for $250 (just unit and AC, no remote or box). I wouldn't pay much more than that.
Note that my deal is 275 Canadian dollars incl. shipping, so something around USD245$.
Tbh I was waiting for a deal like this because I don't really want to spend more either.
I wanted a framemeister at first, but this sounds like the opportunity.
EDIT: So yeah I bought it after seeing a couple of closed up, high-res photos of it, it's done!
EDIT2: Also, I'm looking for PS1 SCART cable now, is this one from play-asia okay? http://www.play-asia.com/rgb-cable-with-audio-and-guncon-output-paOS-13-49-en-70-7f.html
I bought a SCART -> JAP RGB adapter, too, just in case someone warns me I may fry my XRBG3 with this.
I hate that new GSP. There's no reason a $10 Genesis game should cost $15 to ship from the States. It's so frustrating, that I'd rather pay $5-10 more locally just to avoid the gamble with long/expensive shipping on eBay.
Hooked my ps2 to framemeister again for some Phantasy 4...but I am seeing problems wi5h colors. The blue for some reasons is very weak. What is blue is very dark to the point of being black...can't seem to fix it...though i am using a rear project tv,and ps2 with RGB..not sure if that has anything to do with this..Sony XBR2 btw.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I'd distrust any cable with that many components in it that is also that cheap, but I suppose you wouldn't be out too much if you chose to be a guinea pig for it. (Should've asked a couple days ago, when I still had a perfectly good JP-21 PS1 cable to sell.
)Good luck with the XRGB-3 purchase. Make sure to update the firmware to the most recent English version if it's not already in there and get a feel for what all the options do. Some important features aren't the most obvious to decipher.
You're a good man. I'd buy from you.
And yes, prices are outrageous, but the seller will never see it. It can be tough sometimes just trying to convince the seller to ship it internationally, as they need to modify the auction (before it's concluded, afterwards you can't remove GSP), they need to react before the auction ends, and the buyer just pass for a greedy person trying to lower the costs (and bypass customs! you're a bad person, international buyer) at the expense of the seller's convenience.
Some people are compring the move to the introduction to paypal. True, Paypal introduced added costs but also gave some massive protections for both the buyer and seller. Paypal fees are tiny compared to what the GSP forces upon the buyer.
And I heard horror stories about how the parcels are handed. Apparently the GSP open your parcel, takes what's inside and put it in their own box to dispatch. They do it to lower their shipping costs but their packaging is really bad, as it has to be the lightest possible.
Terrible service overall.
I'd distrust any cable with that many components in it that is also that cheap, but I suppose you wouldn't be out too much if you chose to be a guinea pig for it. (Should've asked a couple days ago, when I still had a perfectly good JP-21 PS1 cable to sell.
Good luck with the XRGB-3 purchase. Make sure to update the firmware to the most recent English version if it's not already in there and get a feel for what all the options do. Some important features aren't the most obvious to decipher.
Well, I just choked. :/
I had a second thought last night, thinking ''Why the hell do I need this? I can get my perfect IQ on PC, yes the games will be on their OG hardware but is it worth 300$+ with the cables and everything?''
Then I though about the SNES and the battery saves dying (Because I lost my FF Mystic Quest save lately) and realized I was better investing somewhere else. I was getting way too hyped over a XRGB3.
I need to go back to my basic ''Emulation is the future of retro-gaming.'' way of thinking I had when I first entered GAF and made my retro-GAF threads. It'll cost me less.
At least I know the guy so he understood my POV and said he would have no problem selling it back on Ebay anyway.
Danny Dudekisser
I paid good money for this Dynex!
Well, I just choked. :/
I had a second thought last night, thinking ''Why the hell do I need this? I can get my perfect IQ on PC, yes the games will be on their OG hardware but is it worth 300$+ with the cables and everything?''
Then I though about the SNES and the battery saves dying (Because I lost my FF Mystic Quest save lately) and realized I was better investing somewhere else. I was getting way too hyped over a XRGB3.
I need to go back to my basic ''Emulation is the future of retro-gaming.'' way of thinking I had when I first entered GAF and made my retro-GAF threads. It'll cost me less.
At least I know the guy so he understood my POV and said he would have no problem selling it back on Ebay anyway.
Unfortunately, though, the future is not now.
Emulation's headed in the right direction with projects like Higan, but I'd still rather be playing the real shit for the time being.
But yeah, it's expensive.
I hate that fucking scam that is the Global Shipping Program and I immediately ignore any listing that uses it.
True story: the shit 3rd party company that manages GSP somehow mixed up one of my orders once. Thankfully I successfully got PayPal to refund me, but there's no way I'm ever doing business with those crooks again. It's already bad enough that they charge way too much (and don't make it clear in the listings, especially when it's an auction where you have no way of knowing the final charge!!), but they also add an extra level of handling which means more things can go wrong with your order.
For any American reading this: DON'T ENROLL IN THE GSP!!! We international buyers all hate it like the plague, despite what eBay tells you it will NOT get you more international sales, quite the opposite.
True story: the shit 3rd party company that manages GSP somehow mixed up one of my orders once. Thankfully I successfully got PayPal to refund me, but there's no way I'm ever doing business with those crooks again. It's already bad enough that they charge way too much (and don't make it clear in the listings, especially when it's an auction where you have no way of knowing the final charge!!), but they also add an extra level of handling which means more things can go wrong with your order.
For any American reading this: DON'T ENROLL IN THE GSP!!! We international buyers all hate it like the plague, despite what eBay tells you it will NOT get you more international sales, quite the opposite.
sixteen-bit
Member
I remember lukemorse1 ranting about the global shipping program a while ago in the form of a youtube video. They opened and poorly repacked his shit too.
edit: found the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijmdVlQ36-w
edit: found the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijmdVlQ36-w
Tell me about it.
I called a couple of complete N64 games and a GBA game a month ago from an Ebay seller that was enrolled in this mess, it was the first time I had to deal with this (I'm in Canada), it cost me something around 40$ for shipping only and I got a package that seemed like it's been shot by a shotgun and put back together with Ebay tape all over it. THE BOX WASN'T EVEN CLOSED PROPERLY FFS, water could've entered the box without any problem...I'll post a photo later.
My copy of FF Advance arrived a bit crushed, but thankfully the rest seemed okay, never again I'll deal with anybody enrolled with GSP.
I did this recently. You actually aren't cutting the LED lead but the path that draws signals from consoles and puts them into input 5. There are six screw covers underneath the bandridge that you need a knife to pop off. I almost cut through my entire board before realizing that the LED actually isn't the issue. Just cut the trace and the LED will still be on, but that's OK, as long as it isn't tranfering power to the console in slot 5.
I finally got around to doing this today, the trace shown has been cut and no longer is power being sent to input 5 BUT the LED isnt working when i select input 5 now, isnt it still supposed to work?
speedlolita
Member
Got my Bandridge and a JVC SCART to SCART lead (this thing is like 1cm thick) and all seems well. Very nice solution!
So I got the Euro SCART to RGB cable, and I have signal to my PVM without the Genesis turning off, great!
Only problem:
The image is appearing unstable, lot of bouncing, misaligned image and the like, like when you switch to RGB image output on a PS2 when using component cables. I've stabilized it as much as I can, otherwise I'm at a loss as to how to get it any better.
EDIT: NVM, we're all fine here, now, here. How are you?
Only problem:
The image is appearing unstable, lot of bouncing, misaligned image and the like, like when you switch to RGB image output on a PS2 when using component cables. I've stabilized it as much as I can, otherwise I'm at a loss as to how to get it any better.
EDIT: NVM, we're all fine here, now, here. How are you?
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
That sure looks like a sync problem.
Gotta post more info about the cables that you're using. Which sync signal does the SCART cable pull from the console (composite video pin, or the dedicated sync pin)? Does the PVM require one type of sync or another? Does any device in the chain have some kind of sync-stripping or sync-altering component built into it?
Gotta post more info about the cables that you're using. Which sync signal does the SCART cable pull from the console (composite video pin, or the dedicated sync pin)? Does the PVM require one type of sync or another? Does any device in the chain have some kind of sync-stripping or sync-altering component built into it?
Whoop, never mind, thanks for the help, messed with the sync and V-hold and now it's looking pretty bad-ass. Joe Musashi lives in glorious RGB! Will get more pics of how awesome Sega looks in RGB, sharpest I've ever seen the old Genny looking!
That's probably a good thing. My LED still works but no power is sent to slot 5. LED is drawing power from somewhere though, so having it not working is a good thing I suppose.
baphomet
Member
Still messing with it, but so far I'm super pleased.
I'm getting some video noise but I'm sure it's a cable issue. Once that's taken care of it'll be perfect
Time Killers Arcade PCB Capture - XRGB Mini - RGB : http://youtu.be/tnxaSTrBf7Q
I'm getting some video noise but I'm sure it's a cable issue. Once that's taken care of it'll be perfect
Time Killers Arcade PCB Capture - XRGB Mini - RGB : http://youtu.be/tnxaSTrBf7Q
sixteen-bit
Member
this game looks amazing, haha
Pancakes R Us
Member
Agreed on this Global Shipping Program. The whole bloody thing is a scam. Sometimes packages get through without customs charges and I suspect that they just keep the charges.
Amazon US is so much better. They charge me the fee in advance but then reimburse it if there wasn't any cost incurred.
baphomet
Member
Its a Sony PVM. I think that's a 20m4u. Its great.
Have you never seen Time Killers before? Its so awful its great.
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