-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
- Status
baphomet
Member
Sexy.
Also: What camera did you take those pictures with? They look most excellent.
Thanks, they're taken with a Canon 600D and a Rokinon 35mm Cine lens.
I don't know if it's included in your "easily", but I recently found out about a board to allow every N64 to be modded to RGB. It does involve a lot more soldering though.
I could only find informations on this board on this French website, who also happens to sell them: http://www.otakus-store.net/en/home/229-n64-rgb-for-all-kit-modding.html . They're apparently the only one to make them and there is no indications whatsoever about how it theoretically works.
Currently considering getting a 13 inch PVM to use as a dedicated tate screen. There's a good looking one near my area on Kijiji right now... Hmm...
I don't have many vertical games though, I do have Ikaruga and Neo XYX on Dreamcast but that's pretty much all. But vertical games have such a weird appeal, especially if you actually play them the way they're meant to be.
Should I go for it, RGBGAF?
I don't have many vertical games though, I do have Ikaruga and Neo XYX on Dreamcast but that's pretty much all. But vertical games have such a weird appeal, especially if you actually play them the way they're meant to be.
Should I go for it, RGBGAF?
sixteen-bit
Member
Sure. And with a dedicated tate monitor your vertical game collection is more likely to grow to take advantage of it.
Damn, almost went number 3 on the spot when I saw this post. Great pickups.
Bonus points for Metal Slug 6. I don't know anyone else who has that on native hardware. Although, I haven't really made it a point to ask. Can you confirm whether that game's native res is 240p? I assume it is, but would just like to hear it from someone who actually knows what he's talking about and has the game on hand. It came out during the weird EDTV era so sometimes we take things for granted and assume things are 240p when they aren't (cough... mega man 9).
I played Metal Slug 6 at an arcade once and I'm pretty sure it was not 240p. Probably 480p like any other Sega hardware of the time. The game still keeps the traditional pixel art, but zooms out the scene at particular moments (mostly bosses).
Metal Slug 6 is part of the Metal Slug Collection (on PS2, PSP and Wii), BTW.
Ugh.. that's what I'd like confirm/denied. It looks very gross on PS2 in a way that the other games of the anthology don't... even though all 7 games of the Anthology look "off" in 480i.
Not saying I don't believe you. Rather, you make perfect sense. I just think it'd be nice to have someone with the actual game on hand to confirm it. There are some weird scaling effects and other bizarre things happening in MS 6 and knowing the native resolution would at least put my mind a bit more at ease by understanding why the game looks like such shit to my eyes in comparison to the previous 6 games of the series.
I also have MSA on PS2, I've never tried it in 480i but it does support 480p, and from what I remember MS6 looked okay. It's been a while I tried though, I was a bit clueless about those things back then, I should try it again, and then I'll tell you if it looks similar to my experience in the arcade.
Since I literally own all Neo Geo Metal Slug games on real hardware now, Metal Slug 6 is the only reason I still keep MSA in my collection lol.
In any case this Anthology is not suited for a non-progressive CRT because there's no 240p option AFAIK (so very few PS2 games support 240p).
Wait what, it's less powerful? Why? I thought it was the successor to the Naomi.
sixteen-bit
Member
Nice! I've been getting the itch to add some new PCB's/kits to my collection as well, but it'll most likely be next month as a few unexpected tunes popped up for sale...
Was thinking of getting both Bubble Symphony and Memories.
baphomet
Member
The Taito F3 is probably my next addition to the collection. There's some really fun looking games on there. Not to mention a multicart in the works for it in the future.
And it's not too bad price-wise either. Replaying the original BB PCB over this past weekend was really tempting me... So it could be next unless something crazy pops up between now and then!
Interesting that they have a dips switch setting for the resolution. Was that common on any other arcade hardware?
baphomet
Member
For stuff around that time yes. Not all monitors accept 31khz so they gave the 15khz option so people would use them in more cabinets.
baphomet
Member
I believe so. I don't know for certain though.
i tested with the SNES adapter + controller and it works. it looks like it was the analog stick thing that was stopping the N64 one from working.
it's a good thing i got this adapter too and have a SNES pad around.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
Why is this 850$
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/pho/4787558869.html
This seems about right
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pho/4787890936.html
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/pho/4787558869.html
This seems about right
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/pho/4787890936.html
theSlacker
Member
People thinking that it is still used by professionals for professional work is why. Hard to talk people down when they think they have something worth a ton, and normally just got to wait it out. I have 2 of the same exact units that I got for around $160 each iirc that the guy wanted way more for originally. Well mines have the 4:3 screen mask instead of the widescreen one that one has, but that is just a pop off thing to uncover the rest of the screen. Will look odd without any border part on the screen though. That one does have really low hours on it which is good. Mine has like 4-5x more hours on them.
I doubt you will be able to get a good deal from him since he seems to think that ebay prices are a good representation of what he should sell things for so good luck with that.
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
haha id definitely have to pop off the widescreen mask to play games.
I thought PVMs are more natural? BVMs having to high-density of pixel structure (or whatever it is called) that is not the mist ideal for 240. I'd love a BVM, though.
Lynd7
Member
Can any PVM experts help me out please. Just wondering about a minor issue.
In the bottom right area of my PVM it appears as though that area gets squished, or pinched slightly. It's not too noticeable, but it is apparent on 2D horizontal scrolling games, noticed it the most on Sonic.
Is there some setting I should try to adjust to reduce this? I hadn't seen it or noticed it much before I went through and adjusted the image using the service menu controls, maybe it was always like that.
Overall though my settings are good picture wise.
In the bottom right area of my PVM it appears as though that area gets squished, or pinched slightly. It's not too noticeable, but it is apparent on 2D horizontal scrolling games, noticed it the most on Sonic.
Is there some setting I should try to adjust to reduce this? I hadn't seen it or noticed it much before I went through and adjusted the image using the service menu controls, maybe it was always like that.
Overall though my settings are good picture wise.
theSlacker
Member
Can any PVM experts help me out please. Just wondering about a minor issue.
In the bottom right area of my PVM it appears as though that area gets squished, or pinched slightly. It's not too noticeable, but it is apparent on 2D horizontal scrolling games, noticed it the most on Sonic.
Is there some setting I should try to adjust to reduce this? I hadn't seen it or noticed it much before I went through and adjusted the image using the service menu controls, maybe it was always like that.
Overall though my settings are good picture wise.
There are a ton of settings you can adjust to mess with the geometry if you get into the service menu of your set. You can take hours getting everything just right though it and normally have to work a few different settings to get it all sorted out. Can be a hassle that may or may not be worth it to you as well. What is your PVM model number and I can try to find the service manual for it tomorrow or something for you.
BONKERS
Member
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/113891498/blinking-light-win-resurrecting-your-nes
And here I was thinking I was gonna go chop the shit out of the ZIF in my NES to make it a top loader.
And here I was thinking I was gonna go chop the shit out of the ZIF in my NES to make it a top loader.
StevieWhite
Member
I am skeptical. I replaced my 72 pin connector a few years back, and it still works great. If you disable the 10NES as well, you get near flawless performance, provided you are working with a clean cartridge. It is difficult for me to see how this would be worth it, unless it is extremely cheap.
I meant it in the sense that they are more expensive equipment. For retro gaming purposes then yeah apparently they may not be optimal due to being "too sharp".
600 lines:
750 lines:
Both are from 14" monitors I own.
You were saying?
Sorry, I don't mean to be a dick, but why grab a studio monitor in the first place if you aren't trying to get the highest quality picture? The more lines of pixels, the better. It still looks perfectly retro with more lines of pixels....( emphasis on the word "perfectly" ). It's just that the details become even that much more distinct, and everything looks that much more gorgeous.
I really recommend that everyone shoots for the studio monitors with the most lines possible. And BVMs are probably the best of the bunch in that regard. I really think my 600 line PVM offers phenomenal picture in person, but I really don't think it's the ideal CRT for play retro games by any means. I keep mine because it has perfect geometry - far better than my 750 line set which isn't in great condition.
PVMs are popular because they're more common, not because they're better gaming devices than BVMs which have more lines.
But, of course.... opinions....
Play on what makes you happy.
Edit: What color temperature does everyone prefer? Is there a "correct" temperature for videogames?
D
Deleted member 22576
Unconfirmed Member
Dang yeah that 750 line image looks a lot better to me.
Just sent that guy an email asking if he's had any offers at that price and not so subtly hinting it's a tall order.
Maybe he'll slowly breakdown overtime. I'm really into that one because of the low hour count: I don't want to buy another CRT anytime soon.
Just sent that guy an email asking if he's had any offers at that price and not so subtly hinting it's a tall order.
Maybe he'll slowly breakdown overtime. I'm really into that one because of the low hour count: I don't want to buy another CRT anytime soon.
Lynd7
Member
Thanks.
I have on and off been tweaking the picture in the service menu. Maybe I altered something eventually that made this little pinch more noticeable.
Figured we needed some more shots so I took a few of a new addition I just added to the collection. These were taken on my iPhone, had to switch phones but I think I like the picture my old phone took more. I do plan on getting a good camera eventually. I will say the burst feature on the iPhone is really helpful when trying to get some action shots in these games.
BONKERS
Member
20$ is cheap mang. For something that will fix essentially every problem I have had with NES's for 20 years.
ZIFs suck. Replacements will damage your carts in time because of how they are made.
If you are going with a ZIF, keep originals, boil them and bend the pins up but don't use one of those cheap POS aftermarket ones.
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
I didn't know how much of an abomination PAL N64 really was.
S-Video looks atrocious.
S-Video looks atrocious.
Are you trying to say Composite is better?
sixteen-bit
Member
isn't there some kind of special cable you need to get it to look right?
We have a scanline screenshots thread now:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=921436
Could you post these in there as well when you have a chance?
They look great.
Figured we needed some more shots so I took a few of a new addition I just added to the collection. These were taken on my iPhone, had to switch phones but I think I like the picture my old phone took more. I do plan on getting a good camera eventually. I will say the burst feature on the iPhone is really helpful when trying to get some action shots in these games.
Its great to see shots from other peoples SNES's as it shows you how varied PQ was across the different models.
This is the same game on a SNES mini with the 'simple' RGB mod
Its great to see shots from other peoples SNES's as it shows you how varied PQ was across the different models.
This is the same game on a SNES mini with the 'simple' RGB mod
Nice shot. Though I'm curious as to your camera? I know my iPhone mutes colours terribly and that was what was used for the other shot you're comparing to.
Granted that was with a dslr, but i was referencing more to sharpness this can be different across the snes models. It's a shame the orignal snes's PQ could vary so much across board configuration
Heavy's Sandvich
Member
It does.
I'm really ignorant about these sorts of thing, was trying to find a solution as to why it looked so bad.
It's completely washed out/too bright with this ridiculous noise as well on the image.
I need help
So I've been messing a bit with my Dreamcast which had not being plugged in for a while now. Tried a bunch of games on my PVM, and to my surprise 3rd Strike does not appear to support 240p?? I was pretty sure it did? Is there are way to force it to 240p somehow?
EDIT: Wait, found it
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=22842
Hold Start+L
EDIT: Wait, found it
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=22842
Hold Start+L
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I believe there is a button code to force that game and some other Capcom games to 240p.
I bought a new VGA box for my Dreamcast (specifically the Retro-Bit one) and the difference in quality is massive, with the previous one the VGA output was super noisy, and all this time I assumed it was my TV that had crappy VGA support, but no it was my VGA box that was a total piece of shit, now it's really clean and sharp.
And of course I switch to the s-video out to my PVM for games that support 240p. Best of both worlds!
And of course I switch to the s-video out to my PVM for games that support 240p. Best of both worlds!
- Status