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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
- Start date
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theSlacker
Member
Northern VA area craigslist? I was thinking about offering him $50 for it but would need a demo first. Will pass on it if you are going for it though since I have a few monitors.
Do what I was going to do if you are going to go for it, and make sure to see it in action first. It is one of the older 20" models so has a higher chance of having had heavy use.
Yeah, Nova.
Cool and thanks for the tip. Is it worth 75? I dont know anything about monitors.
After messing around with the 2 different sets of drivers and settings in capture programs I can safely say the Startech Pexhdcap is a must have for RGB gaming. It's one of the few capture cards to capture 240p even through component and the quality is great. You can also use the Sync Splitter for scart to vga though I don't have one to test that out. I'm still fine with the scart to component converter so I'll be using that for my main. Here's Super Empire Strikes Back with it's official shot compared to mine on the right:
Official/Mine
After this, I don't think I'll need an upscaler for a while(not even an XRGB mini), maybe until capture cards stop detecting 240p(which I hope won't happen). So I love it so far!
theSlacker
Member
$75 doesn't seem unfair if the picture doesn't have problems. $50 wouldn't be an unfair price either. I think those would be the upper and lower fair limits for that specific unit if it isn't worn out. There isn't a way to check operational hours on that particular monitor though, and they were the ones made before 2000 so there is a lot of potential usage on it. The actual manufactured date is on a sticker on the back of the unit just a little above the top of one of his pictures of it, but knowing that will not tell you much since its going to be an older model regardless. Only way to really tell is to have something you can test on it.
sixteen-bit
Member
Neo Geo line doubler
http://youtu.be/hxGz6h3eMhs
http://youtu.be/hxGz6h3eMhs
Moor-Angol
Banned
some test with my Framemeister and Saturn RGB on LG IPS monitor
Lunar, default (no scanlines) (image poor quality, sorry)
Lunar, scanlines (width 75)
Today I found an option which allows to change a little the image on the border, probably simulating the little curve old CRT had back in the day
Lunar, scanlines yes, border no
Lunar, scanlines yes, border yes
So this is more or less the difference between default setting and custom setting with scanlines and borders activated:
Fatal Fury Special, scanlines no, border no
Fatal Fury Special, scanlines yes, border yes
Lunar, default (no scanlines) (image poor quality, sorry)
Lunar, scanlines (width 75)
Today I found an option which allows to change a little the image on the border, probably simulating the little curve old CRT had back in the day
Lunar, scanlines yes, border no
Lunar, scanlines yes, border yes
So this is more or less the difference between default setting and custom setting with scanlines and borders activated:
Fatal Fury Special, scanlines no, border no
Fatal Fury Special, scanlines yes, border yes
Superblatt
Member
I spent 2 hours yesterday adjusting the geometry on my Sony BVM (20F1U) and it's still not very good. Any tips or guides? So frustrating.
GayForMaster
Banned
I've got the money now to buy a PVM but I need to confirm first, can the L1-5 20 inch models support component? I'm afraid that if I put my wii through component into it I'm going to see 2 half screens on it.
My 20L5 has component, also 20L5's go up to 1080i over componenent.
Isn't that less about supporting component and more about supporting 480p?
IrishNinja
Member
congrats to Timu by the way! i like that we're starting to see other setups/options show up here.
i sure hope so, since the framemeister he's coming off of is absolutely horrible* for N64/PS1/Saturn and 480p systems, as seen on this page.
*FUD
i sure hope so, since the framemeister he's coming off of is absolutely horrible* for N64/PS1/Saturn and 480p systems, as seen on this page.
*FUD
GayForMaster
Banned
I'm sorry I meant 480p.
The main issue for me was the resolution blackouts. Don't get me wrong, it's a great a device but it's hardly future proof with those blackouts. I can't even play Dino Crisis or Silent Hill on it so it's not a perfect device for me.
theSlacker
Member
I have spent hours messing with the geometry on the ones I have. It took a while to be able to realize how to use multiple changes to fix stuff in one corner. As for tips, I would say use the grid pattern on the 240p test suite and to start make the H size and V size a little bigger then you intend on it being when you finish, so that the 4 sides (or whatever side you are working on at the time) lines up with the edge of the set itself so you can see changes to it easily. Can you take a picture of your screen with something on it to show the problems you are having?
Friend of Sonic
Member
Crossposting from the Gen thread. I am getting a horrible buzz that *seens* to be resulting from the patch cable that connects the 32x to the CDX. Would it be worth it to try Retro Console Accessories patch cable? Wondering if hers is shielded more than the stock cable. Or maybebi need to go coaxial with the Gen Scart cable. But I can hear the interfence change by jiggling the patch cable.
Genesis Buzz is usually a power supply issue fyi. What adapters are you using for both your Gen and 32x? Gen itself needs 1.2 amps. Mine had buzz until I gave it an adapter with enough amps.
Friend of Sonic
Member
I switched to the Game Cave AC adapter, the two in 1 for 32X and CDX. I guess I'll switch back to the OEM adapters and see if I get the issue. Good idea, thank you
It's also a cable quality problem. I have a non-shielded Chinese cable with a loud buzz regardless of whether I used the official AC adapter or my expensive universal adapter. The buzzing volume was considerably lowered when I finally got an official Sega RGB cable, to the point it's not noticeable with background music. I'll check what my options are once I'll plug my consoles in a proper sound system, but I'm quite satisfied now.
The fact that the buzzing varies with what's on screen makes me rule out an AC problem. It's clearly the three RGB wires interacting with the audio wires. Proper shielding or independent audio out should eradicate it.
The fact that the buzzing varies with what's on screen makes me rule out an AC problem. It's clearly the three RGB wires interacting with the audio wires. Proper shielding or independent audio out should eradicate it.
I didn't listen.
I didn't listen and I regret it as FUCK.
I chocked on you guys and bought a Retron 5, played 10 minutes with it and went back to the shop then I got refunded.
-Terrible build quality, the thing already had bloody scratches and weird spots the glossy parts.
-I felt like I was destroying something each time I got a cartridge out.
-The button delay was even WORSE than my PC plugged on my TV, I honestly didn't expect that one, I guess I was hoping it wouldn't happen too much.
-The sounds of the UI was just terrible.
-The moment I turned the scanlines ON the screen started to flicker as shit.
Overall, the Retron 5 is a neat concept, I wanted something future-proof, by this I mean something that could help me keep playing my battery-dead cartridges without having to open them up. (Even if I could totally do it, I studied in repairing electronics, but a part of me just wanted to keep the stuff in my cartridges intact and another one was just being lazy.)
Meeeeeeeeh....I have such a salty taste in my mouth guys...
I'll listen to you all next time, hype got the better of me, but that thing was shit, don't buy it...
EDIT: OH YEAH, I almost forgot, that shit was 199,99$ here in Quebec, 230$ with the taxes... =_=
I didn't listen and I regret it as FUCK.
I chocked on you guys and bought a Retron 5, played 10 minutes with it and went back to the shop then I got refunded.
-Terrible build quality, the thing already had bloody scratches and weird spots the glossy parts.
-I felt like I was destroying something each time I got a cartridge out.
-The button delay was even WORSE than my PC plugged on my TV, I honestly didn't expect that one, I guess I was hoping it wouldn't happen too much.
-The sounds of the UI was just terrible.
-The moment I turned the scanlines ON the screen started to flicker as shit.
Overall, the Retron 5 is a neat concept, I wanted something future-proof, by this I mean something that could help me keep playing my battery-dead cartridges without having to open them up. (Even if I could totally do it, I studied in repairing electronics, but a part of me just wanted to keep the stuff in my cartridges intact and another one was just being lazy.)
Meeeeeeeeh....I have such a salty taste in my mouth guys...
I'll listen to you all next time, hype got the better of me, but that thing was shit, don't buy it...
EDIT: OH YEAH, I almost forgot, that shit was 199,99$ here in Quebec, 230$ with the taxes... =_=
sixteen-bit
Member
lol, sounds even worse than I expected
IrishNinja
Member
Goddamn....sorry seik, was hoping it'd work out if even just as a sort of cart dex drive like you did...ugh
In happier news, a good buddy has a kid on the way & called to ask if I wanted his 32" trinotron! Apparently it's in good shape & even has a component out, so it should make a great option when I have space for my classic game room...where it's gonna go right now, how I'm gonna replace my back after moving it etc are questions for another time~
In happier news, a good buddy has a kid on the way & called to ask if I wanted his 32" trinotron! Apparently it's in good shape & even has a component out, so it should make a great option when I have space for my classic game room...where it's gonna go right now, how I'm gonna replace my back after moving it etc are questions for another time~
you've won this day, #teamCRT, but you haven't won the war
IrishNinja
Member
oh it better or ima throw leave it in the bushes
Also thank you peagles, at least now when I picture slipping a disc on the staircase with this monstrosity ill hear Wario in my head on the way down
Also thank you peagles, at least now when I picture slipping a disc on the staircase with this monstrosity ill hear Wario in my head on the way down
If you really hurt yourself I will be sad.
IrishNinja
Member
Aw I appreciate the sentiment, since Mzo & SixFour already assured me that if I die in an effort to minimize input lag, at least it will be a noble death~
*edit be fair gun, I was still.recovering from all that booze we listed from your in-laws
*edit be fair gun, I was still.recovering from all that booze we listed from your in-laws
D.Lo
Member
Got a Bainbridge 5 way scart switch, haven't modded it yet, video is perfect on all inputs but I'm getting audio buzz. It may be the male/male scart extension from the output, but I got a good quality cable so I'm not sure of that.
More testing to be done I guess...
As good as it is, it is kind of ridiculous the Framemeister's RGB input is on the FRONT.
More testing to be done I guess...
As good as it is, it is kind of ridiculous the Framemeister's RGB input is on the FRONT.
IrishNinja
Member
True, it's also ridiculous that there's 1 s video, component, rgb etc but multiple HDMIs
My fault for not listening. =_=
I'll end up with a Framemeister, some day...
when I'll find 400$ somewhere in the cracks of my couch.
I'll stick with what I've always been sticking, legit PC emulation on my good old monitor, sounds like it'll be my best IQ go-to for a couple more years now.
s74rshaped
Member
I also noticed this on my one, happens from all audio out ports and the tv too.
Put that $230 towards it, gogogo!
You really don't want to consider a CRT? It would be much cheaper and you'd end up with a much better picture quality.
Goddam!
Anyone know where I can grab a console-ized MVS like that? I have no soldering skills to make a supergun for myself, and would so love the ability to plug and play MVS carts.
I saw those nice wooden ones, but +$600 is a bit too rich for my blood. Bonus points if I can use Neo Geo AES sticks on it
Edit: any thoughts on the Omega Entertainment Machine?
MightyHedgehog
Member
So, a little while back, my go-to SD CRT finally got to the point of non-usability for my old SD consoles. While waiting for a good deal on a PVM/BVM or otherwise nice SD CRT replacement, I've decided to dig out an older ED (1080i/540p) CRT that accepts component and HDMI as its highest-end inputs. Given how much my discretionary spending is maxxed out on this year's crop of new games, I don't think I want to make room in my budget for something as expensive as finally getting a Framemeister.
Does anyone have any experience going with a less expensive, perhaps less-than-perfect image solution of going with a line doubler/scaler>scanline generator>transcoder trio to get that SD look on what is practically an HD CRT? It's a lot less expensive than going whole hog on XRGB and doesn't seem to be any more latency added overall. I've checked out my unmodded model 1 Genny on it via composite and RF (yech!) and it seems pretty much fairly lag-free that way, though the image quality is meh. I also already own a SCART cable that could interface with the scaler. Anyone on this route have any suggestions or experience to share?
Does anyone have any experience going with a less expensive, perhaps less-than-perfect image solution of going with a line doubler/scaler>scanline generator>transcoder trio to get that SD look on what is practically an HD CRT? It's a lot less expensive than going whole hog on XRGB and doesn't seem to be any more latency added overall. I've checked out my unmodded model 1 Genny on it via composite and RF (yech!) and it seems pretty much fairly lag-free that way, though the image quality is meh. I also already own a SCART cable that could interface with the scaler. Anyone on this route have any suggestions or experience to share?
I already have a little (something around) 17'' CRT, I play on it frequently and all...it's just that it's in my room, it's little and it has a little frequency that gets on my nerves so much that I'm planning to throw it out the window.
I wanted something for the big ass HDTV in my living room. It'll come, some day.
After messing around with the 2 different sets of drivers and settings in capture programs I can safely say the Startech Pexhdcap is a must have for RGB gaming. It's one of the few capture cards to capture 240p even through component and the quality is great. You can also use the Sync Splitter for scart to vga though I don't have one to test that out. I'm still fine with the scart to component converter so I'll be using that for my main. Here's Super Empire Strikes Back with it's official shot compared to mine on the right:
Official/Mine
/
After this, I don't think I'll need an upscaler for a while(not even an XRGB mini), maybe until capture cards stop detecting 240p(which I hope won't happen). So I love it so far!
I used to have one of those great card, but have since upgraded to the XCAPTURE-1 USB 3.0.
Just keep an eye on the CPU throttling the STARTECH PEXHDCAP causes though
Later Alligator
Member
i used a cheapo scaler at first while i acquired scart cables for everything to split the costs up a bit
id recommend just saving up a bit and doing it proper with an xrgb
How's the input lag with your device?
Yep, another way to do RGB gaming for sure while being able to record it as well.
I would like to have a XCAPTURE but that price and being exclusive to Japan makes it tough for me to get it, wouldn't still mind getting one though. I'll also keep that in mind.
There is no input lag to speak of, and awesomely enough internal capture cards tend to not have input lag(from the 2 I own and what I heard) which is why I prefer them over external capture cards when recording(unless it's USB 3.0).
IrishNinja
Member
Okay so if this CRT I'm getting has a component in,how can I make that work for my SCART RGB cables? Guess I should start learning this stuff
If your CRT does component you would need a scart to component converter.
MightyHedgehog
Member
Not the answer I was hoping to hear. Was the quality that bad? Were you just using the upscaler/line doubler and nothing else in your setup? I can totally be fine with softness of image as long as there isn't blatant ghosting/interlacing on the upscale because, after all, with a scanline generator as part of the process chain, its appearance, even on fast movement, will likely be mitigated in the final image...or so I was thinking. I was anticipating that it really came down to the quality/speed of the scaler and how it handled interlaced 240p signals.
IrishNinja
Member
Awesome, what's the recommended one around here? Ideally I'm thinking the XRGB will stay with the plasma
This is the one I used and it has worked flawlessly for me though this is another alternative that works.
MightyHedgehog
Member
What's up with the difference in price when they seem to be both doing the exact same thing? Quality of scaling or is it just taking advantage of consumer ignorance?
They don't scale, thy just transcode. As for the price difference, beats me.
Friend of Sonic
Member
Are the Pelican scart cables for Dreamcast good? Thinking about buying one off of eBay
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