dragonzdogma
Member
Well,I am out of ideas,
My only conclusion is that my LG TV can't be fooled by GSM 480p when running PSX games.
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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!
- Thread starter IrishNinja
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Well,I am out of ideas,
My only conclusion is that my LG TV can't be fooled by GSM 480p when running PSX games.
Sgt. Killjoy
Member
So I have the Mini, and I have confirmed RGB input on it works with a Sega Genesis.
I also tested my Saturn RCA cables on the Mini and it worked fine. I did this one two Saturns.
The seller shipped another RGB cable and I tested it and it also didn't work. I tried changing the sync level, but I'm not even totally sure what that does.
The input light on the Mini also doesn't light up for the Saturn, but it did for the Genesis. There really is no reason it shouldn't work.
This is the cable, which I have heard is supposed to work just fine with the JP21 adapter that comes with the mini.
ebay link
And it's a North American Saturn.
I also tested my Saturn RCA cables on the Mini and it worked fine. I did this one two Saturns.
The seller shipped another RGB cable and I tested it and it also didn't work. I tried changing the sync level, but I'm not even totally sure what that does.
The input light on the Mini also doesn't light up for the Saturn, but it did for the Genesis. There really is no reason it shouldn't work.
This is the cable, which I have heard is supposed to work just fine with the JP21 adapter that comes with the mini.
ebay link
And it's a North American Saturn.
Errrmm... I think that's a broken link.
Sgt. Killjoy
Member
*deleted
dragonzdogma
Member
About a year ago I had a samsung 32 LCD,and yes I was able to Run 480P with the current set up I have. My guess is that it's my current TV LG n5300 fault.
If I could somehow manually adjust the resolution of the TV to whatever I wanted ,that would be nice, I know some tv's have special hidden services hidden on them, but I cant seem to find them for this TV.
baphomet
Member
Well,I am out of ideas,
My only conclusion is that my LG TV can't be fooled by GSM 480p when running PSX games.
If you set gsm to 480p its going to display 480p, not 240p.
dragonzdogma
Member
Right, However my LG n5300 wont get tricked by GSM.
By pressing the info button it will tell me if it's 480p ,which it is but as soon as the psone game starts , the tv swtiches to 480i.
I cant figure this out.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Are you using component cables?
I know it's not ideal but you could always play your PS1 discs on a PS3.
sixteen-bit
Member
PS3 is not capable of outputting 240p. It will upscale ps1 games.
better than having the TV recognise it as 480i.
I think I'll share my experience with a couple of cheap upscalers in order to spare some GAFers the experience of jumping in blind.
First I should explain that I was predominantly interested in something that would upscale S Video. The reason for that is that I bought a Super Retro Trio expecting that my 2011 Panny plasma would have S video inputs the same way my old 2006 Panny plasma did. Well, turns out it doesn't, so I'm stick with composite. And in any case, the TV's scaler is treating the signal as 480i.
So, forewarned that they'd probably suck, I bit the bullet and blindly bought a couple of cheap(ish) upscalers to try out. I first tried to buy the Coosis box here:
http://www.coosis.com/products-page...-rca-w-s-video-to-hdmi-080-ultimate-features/
The reason being that it would handle both S video and SCART, so it would give me the option to upgrade to RGB in the future if I so chose. At the time it was out of stock and the Coosis sales people said it was discontinued. So, believing I wouldn't be able to get it, I bought the Portta PETCSHP 3 R Converter for about $33 on eBay.
Now, first the good: it does what it sets out to do. Specifically, it allowed me to use the S video output on my TV, and the image is indeed much sharper than composite could ever hope to be. Although I didn't do any sophisticated timing tests, I didn't perceive even a hint of lag in the conversion, which is definitely a plus.
That said, this still treats 240p as 480i and produces the artifacts expected as a result. It also seems to heighten the contrast in a way that seemed jarring (it does this with both S video and composite, so I know it's not just the cable) and resulted in an image that was a good bit darker than expected. It also has no aspect ratio selection (which I knew beforehand) and my TV can't horizontally compress HD images, so I was stuck with the stretch. Also, composite upscaling looked terrible, far worse than what my TV's default scaler did.
So, the negatives are pretty extensive, but for the price, I could see this being an acceptable solution for some. If my TV could 'squish' the image, it would undoubtedly be better than composite and preferable even despite the heightened contrast. That said, it's not quite what I was looking for.
After having ordered the PORTTA box, I got word that Coosis had managed to restock the scaler I was originall interested in and ended up getting that as well. Given that it had an S Video input, an aspect ratio selector, and even independent video controls, this seemed like it had to be the superior product, right?
...
No GAF, it is not. I'll type out why a bit later, but suffice to say, you shouldn't buy it as it is wholly unsuitable for any game console.
First I should explain that I was predominantly interested in something that would upscale S Video. The reason for that is that I bought a Super Retro Trio expecting that my 2011 Panny plasma would have S video inputs the same way my old 2006 Panny plasma did. Well, turns out it doesn't, so I'm stick with composite. And in any case, the TV's scaler is treating the signal as 480i.
So, forewarned that they'd probably suck, I bit the bullet and blindly bought a couple of cheap(ish) upscalers to try out. I first tried to buy the Coosis box here:
http://www.coosis.com/products-page...-rca-w-s-video-to-hdmi-080-ultimate-features/
The reason being that it would handle both S video and SCART, so it would give me the option to upgrade to RGB in the future if I so chose. At the time it was out of stock and the Coosis sales people said it was discontinued. So, believing I wouldn't be able to get it, I bought the Portta PETCSHP 3 R Converter for about $33 on eBay.
Now, first the good: it does what it sets out to do. Specifically, it allowed me to use the S video output on my TV, and the image is indeed much sharper than composite could ever hope to be. Although I didn't do any sophisticated timing tests, I didn't perceive even a hint of lag in the conversion, which is definitely a plus.
That said, this still treats 240p as 480i and produces the artifacts expected as a result. It also seems to heighten the contrast in a way that seemed jarring (it does this with both S video and composite, so I know it's not just the cable) and resulted in an image that was a good bit darker than expected. It also has no aspect ratio selection (which I knew beforehand) and my TV can't horizontally compress HD images, so I was stuck with the stretch. Also, composite upscaling looked terrible, far worse than what my TV's default scaler did.
So, the negatives are pretty extensive, but for the price, I could see this being an acceptable solution for some. If my TV could 'squish' the image, it would undoubtedly be better than composite and preferable even despite the heightened contrast. That said, it's not quite what I was looking for.
After having ordered the PORTTA box, I got word that Coosis had managed to restock the scaler I was originall interested in and ended up getting that as well. Given that it had an S Video input, an aspect ratio selector, and even independent video controls, this seemed like it had to be the superior product, right?
...
No GAF, it is not. I'll type out why a bit later, but suffice to say, you shouldn't buy it as it is wholly unsuitable for any game console.
Thanks for the info Ocaso.
At this rate I wonder if we should just have a bolded section in the OP that explains that you get what you pay for and if you want superior quality you have to fork out space for either a PVM/BVM/decent CRT or fork our the cash for a Framemeister. There isn't yet a way to cheap out on this and have it be worthwhile.
At this rate I wonder if we should just have a bolded section in the OP that explains that you get what you pay for and if you want superior quality you have to fork out space for either a PVM/BVM/decent CRT or fork our the cash for a Framemeister. There isn't yet a way to cheap out on this and have it be worthwhile.
dragonzdogma
Member
yes I have component cables,and I have tested them,currently I have HDMI ps2.
BONKERS
Member
The PS3 at 480p/720p has been known to do pretty good upscaling for PS1 games on LCD TVs.
It's just not the best when using on a CRT.
Based on my own experience, PS1 games upscaled on the PS3 to 720P+ on an LCD look pretty good IMO!
I do believe that finding something that provides Framemeister-like performance at a cheap price is a fool's dream, but as I said earlier in the thread, there must be something that will at least allow you to connect SCART or S video to modern sets and still output acceptable results for a moderate price. If that PORTTA box I mentioned had better color reproduction and my TV could squish the image, it could fit the bill (for S Video at least).
Now, the Coosis box... That was a disappointment. After shipping I ended up paying around $90 for it, which would have been acceptable had the quality of the upscaling been anywhere decent. Given how they mention gaming as important on the website, you'd think this thing was designed with gaming in mind, right?
Wrong.
I suppose it's always worth it to start with the good. From its appearance you'd assume this to be a quality product. It looks nice enough, it has a remote controller, and unlike other cheap options if allows you to turn it on or off so as to not waste power. It does essentially do what it is advertised to do, namely output a 1080p upscaled signal via HDMI through either S video or SCART (the latter of which I haven't tested). It also does allow you to maintain native aspect ratio, which is a great feature for TVs like mine (although 4:3 still looks slightly wider than it should, but not offensively so). Unlike the PORTTA box, colors and contrast all look appropriate. All of these are nice features. So why the disappointment?
Two things. The first is that during upscaling this applies some type of post-processing that essentially smooths out the image, not unlike applying a filter in an emulator. If it were subtle this might not be so bad, but it's agressive as hell and results in all manner of dancing artifacts in both still and moving images. Sorry I can't share a video, but just imagine that it's trying to "fill in" the jagged edges of the sprites to smooth them out but can't quite decide which color to use every other frame. It's distracting and unappealing, and from what I can tell not something that can be turned off in the menu.
Still, that's not what makes this unsuitable for games. That would be the lag. Probably as a result of that post-processing, this thing is incredibly laggy. It's not something that will affect just twitchy games. The lag is sufficient enough that it made platformers extremely difficult. As a result, it is a no go for gaming purposes.
In fairness to the device, that post-processing might be something that could allow legacy video devices to look acceptable on HD sets, but that's a small consolation given that that was not my purpose.
The Mageling
Member
Thanks, Ocaso. That's very helpful information.
Man, I feel like I could spend the rest of my life tweaking the geometry of my PVM. I think I'm just going to have to settle for a few imperfections. Is there a good set way of going about geometry adjustments, or is it just a matter of tweaking things to see how it looks?
Man, I feel like I could spend the rest of my life tweaking the geometry of my PVM. I think I'm just going to have to settle for a few imperfections. Is there a good set way of going about geometry adjustments, or is it just a matter of tweaking things to see how it looks?
Sgt. Killjoy
Member
So the seller got back to me. The Genesis SCART cable he sold me with the XRGB is Euro. So I assume this means my RGB adapter cable is Euro and i need to get a JP21?
or a Euro Saturn cable?
or a Euro Saturn cable?
PumpkinSpice
Banned
I ended up getting one of these as well do have non-shit video for my GameBoy Player. Since GBP is normally running at 480i over s-video it's not as big a deal to be deinterlacing. I'm pretty pleased with the low latency of the scaler, since the GBP is fairly high latency as it is and adding more would probably kill me. It looks way, way better than composite scaled/de-interlaced by my LG TV so if you're not needing 240p and just want s-video this thing isn't so bad.
I also have one of these, which passes 240p component on as 240p HDMI. For whatever ridiculous reason, my TV supports 240p over HDMI and scales it fairly nicely but says fuck no to component, so this little box is pretty nice to have. Since it's doing no scaling latency is very low. The only real drawback is that the only audio input for it is SPDIF, so... it's not very useful for retro stuff. I component and spdif modded my SNES though so its great for that.
I don't have any room on my power strip and bought the wrong RGB cable to use it right now. I intend to let it come back out eventually. Although at the moment I keep it out as a pass thru for my import games.
Wow...that sounds amazing, I think I need one of those.
I have a very basic question.
Why, for example with the Original Wii's VC over component, do people prefer to output in 240p over 480p?
I understand why 240p is always preferable to 480i. But what makes 240p better than 480p? Sorry if this has been covered. I'm still educating myself on all of this stuff.
Why, for example with the Original Wii's VC over component, do people prefer to output in 240p over 480p?
I understand why 240p is always preferable to 480i. But what makes 240p better than 480p? Sorry if this has been covered. I'm still educating myself on all of this stuff.
sixteen-bit
Member
Scanlines, and ain't no better res than native res.
Sixfortyfive
He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Flexibility. When used on an SD CRT, 240p gives you true scanlines. When used on an upscaler like an XRGB, 240p can be scaled to your display's resolution however you please.
If you let the console output at 480p, then you're at the mercy of whatever method that console uses to scale the 240p source to 480p. Odds are that it's going to be stretched and smeared a bit instead of sharp and rigid. For an example, see the Game Boy Player (480p/480i) vs Super Game Boy (240p).
sixteen-bit
Member
You can actually force 240p on Game Boy Player using a homebrew program called Swiss. I think the results actually look better than Super Game Boy because the aspect ratio is correct.
Though, the timing is apparently off so your best bet might still be SGB2.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
Plus the latency problem on GBP.
If you can correct the aspect ratio on your monitor for the Super Gameboy 2 (or modded Super Gameboy) it's very nice for plain GameBoy games. No GBC or GBA though.
The Mageling
Member
No GBC or GBA though.
This is the kicker for me, and the reason why I'm stuck with GBP. I should probably get around to modding my Gamecube or getting one of those SD loaders.
GB Player's aspect ratio isn't correct? Jeez... how so?
sixteen-bit
Member
Whoa, I meant SGB. Post corrected.
NTSC Saturns are mssing the +5V line. This causes problems if your setup depends on that power feed.
Don't know how it impacts the XRGB Mini though, as I don't have one.
My TV's VGA input won't recognize my Dreamcast via VGA, so i'm looking for an alternative on the cheap.
Would this cable work (hypothetically)?
http://www.thesource.ca/estore/prod...ine&category=VGAMonitorCables&product=8015556
Would I be better off going with a cheap VGA to HDMI scaler/converter?
Would this cable work (hypothetically)?
http://www.thesource.ca/estore/prod...ine&category=VGAMonitorCables&product=8015556
Would I be better off going with a cheap VGA to HDMI scaler/converter?
I felt it too... particularly with Mario Golf on GBC which requires precise timing to swing the club accurately. It was totally unplayable on GB Player. It's nice to finally have an explanation for it, though.
baphomet
Member
Yes that's correct. Since you have a euro scart adapter email the seller of your Saturn cable and let her know you actually need a euro cable and she should let you exchange it.
PumpkinSpice
Banned
It's OK if you have a slow moving game. The frame drops are mostly only noticeable when the scrolling is really fast, which is uncommon among Gameboy games. Try Dragon Warrior 3 if you have it -- the fast movement around town makes the jerky framedrop really noticeable.
I think if Mother 3 is slow scrolling it should be fine.
I'm thinking more of the battle rhythms. I have good timing on a GBA but it could go to custard with enough latency/frame drops. Maybe I'll just try it out today and see how it is.
No it won't work. Component and VGA are not directly compatible with each other (different colorspace, and different sync carrier method). That cable is designed for specific equipment that supports a component signal going from/to a VGA port, which is not a standard feature.
Yeah you're going to need some sort of external upscaler if you want Dreamcast in full 480p resolution, as it doesn't support component.
(Have you double checked that your DC VGA box is working? with another monitor)
It's honestly not THAT bad. There is a slight input delay, and a fairly unnoticeable stutter every couple of seconds. I'm primarily an action gamer and it didn't ruin my enjoyment of games like Metroid Zero Mission, Castlevania:CotM, or Minish Cap one bit.
In fact, I owned it for a while before I knew something was up. And even then, I thought I was imagining it until years later when I read about it online. It's still my favorite way to play GBA games. It's going to be great for a game like Mother 3.
SavoryCade
Member
Are there any decent quality and budget-friendly options for converting S-Video to component or HDMI?
I have a Mitsubishi Megaview RGB monitor, but it's HUGE and I may get rid of it to save space and just use my HDTV. I bought one of those cheap SCART to Component converters and I'm fairly pleased with the results, at least until I can afford an XRGB. All my systems have RGB except the TurboDuo which was only modded for S-Video. The Bandbridge scart switch i've got has an S-Video input which I tried, but the picture was too dark to see (didn't really think it would work). I'm guessing my best option is probably just to get the Duo modded again for component?
I have a Mitsubishi Megaview RGB monitor, but it's HUGE and I may get rid of it to save space and just use my HDTV. I bought one of those cheap SCART to Component converters and I'm fairly pleased with the results, at least until I can afford an XRGB. All my systems have RGB except the TurboDuo which was only modded for S-Video. The Bandbridge scart switch i've got has an S-Video input which I tried, but the picture was too dark to see (didn't really think it would work). I'm guessing my best option is probably just to get the Duo modded again for component?
Moor-Angol
Banned
what about a PS3 hooked up to a Frandmeister and use scanlines with PS1 games?
I should try cause i'm planning to buy a PS2 and i'll also buy a D-terminal cable
Friend of Sonic
Member
I've read this before but can't remember the details on it; I guess it's too late for me since the NTSC Saturn cable from retro game accessories is in the mail, but how will I know if the +5 line issue impacts me? If it looks like it's working, am I fine?
D.Lo
Member
GBPlayer drops frames? But it has the GBA chipset inside?
Maybe the GBA drops frames but the LCDs blurred them?
It's not 5V that's missing, On PAL pin 1 on the mini-din is 9V, but on NTSC models it's Sync.
Both models have 5V on pin 4.
You can make a cable compatible with both PAL and NTSC, by using the 5V present from both systems to trigger RGB, and using composite as the sync.
Maybe the GBA drops frames but the LCDs blurred them?
You get no sync, so you get a picture but the screen will be all jacked, usually horizontal 'swimming' of pixels.
It's not 5V that's missing, On PAL pin 1 on the mini-din is 9V, but on NTSC models it's Sync.
Both models have 5V on pin 4.
You can make a cable compatible with both PAL and NTSC, by using the 5V present from both systems to trigger RGB, and using composite as the sync.
baphomet
Member
Shouldn't matter at all for you. Its only used for switching modes on pal television as far as I understand.
Friend of Sonic
Member
Thanks guys!
I know I already posted about this, but now it's at $66.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Ninte...ideo_Game_Cables_Adapters&hash=item2595434332
Are these joke bids?
I know I already posted about this, but now it's at $66.00
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Ninte...ideo_Game_Cables_Adapters&hash=item2595434332
Are these joke bids?
D.Lo
Member
Haha what?
'Super Premium' cables are bordering on expensive Monster Cables nonsense. You need shielding to a certain extent, but beyond that it's useless.
IrishNinja
Member
....wow
there's literally no reason for her to ever price cables - at least, certainly SNES ones - at $20 something ever again, hope you guys got what you needed
there's literally no reason for her to ever price cables - at least, certainly SNES ones - at $20 something ever again, hope you guys got what you needed
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