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[B!TCH]

Overreactions are overreaction. This kid got screwed because his roommate killed himself. Ravi was a shitty roommate and pretty crappy person overall, but this is such bullshit. If we held EVERYONE to the same standard that Ravi is being subjected to we would have A LOT more convictions for privacy violations. Hell most freshman dorms would basically become entrapment for 18 year olds. This is an overprosecution by a DA who took advantage of a sympathetic situation where a kid tragically took his own life, which should not be blamed entirely (or even mostly) on Ravi.

PS Clementi's mom didn't exactly support him when he came out to her months before the suicide. There were plenty of motivators for Tyler.

Nah, you are talking nonsense here my man. If that plea offer really was on the table then that was the olive branch Ravi should've grabbed on to. You don't fight a DA out of some phony principle when your life is on the line because the DA can and will throw the book at you if you force their hand.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Wait you think he killed himself because of Ravi? Not because his mother gave him a lukewarm reception when he came out that devastated him, he had very few friends, or a million other things? It was Ravi. Got it. Let's saddle him with the blame.

You're missing the point here. I'm saying Ravi is getting held to a different standard. That's the bottom line. I don't think it's reasonably possible to disagree with that. If you're cool with WHY he got that standard... well then whatever. I think you're going more off emotion than any sort of rational analysis though.

And what Twitter posts? He was making fun of Clementi prior to finding out he was gay. His orientation was just another element.

Are you honestly going to argue that he wasn't a homophobe? With that quote above?

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-03-05/...-clementi-dharun-ravi-gw-bridge?_s=PM:JUSTICE

Edit: He's being held to a different standard because someone is DEAD as a result of his idiotic actions.

 

[Special J]

I do. Ten years is a drop in the bucket and him being deported back to India is just a slap on the wrist for the fact he basically killed another kid for being gay.

uh... i dunno about that.

 

[Mercury Fred]

Good, hope this piece of shit has a great time spending the prime years of his life in jail.

 

[twobear]

This clearly is different to doing it to a straight flatmate, because of the associated social stigma of being gay and the fact that the other dude was not yet out of the closet

Being outed can ruin lives, he should have taken that into account before he pulled his idiotic prank

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

Are you honestly going to argue that he wasn't a homophobe? With that quote above?

No I'm going to argue his actions weren't clearly motivated by his homophobia rather than his dislike for his awkward roommate. I'm also gonna argue Ravi wasn't the primary reason for Clementi's suicide. Hell probably not even in the top 5.

 

[Freshmaker]

I do. Ten years is a drop in the bucket and him being deported back to India is just a slap on the wrist for the fact he basically killed another kid for being gay.

B...B...But dorm life!

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Good.

 

[Mercury Fred]

No I'm going to argue his actions weren't clearly motivated by his homophobia rather than his dislike for his awkward roommate. I'm also gonna argue Ravi wasn't the primary reason for Clementi's suicide. Hell probably not even in the top 5.

lol

 

[Stinkles]

Wait you think he killed himself because of Ravi? Not because his mother gave him a lukewarm reception when he came out that devastated him, he had very few friends, or a million other things? It was Ravi. Got it. Let's saddle him with the blame.

You're missing the point here. I'm saying Ravi is getting held to a different standard. That's the bottom line. I don't think it's reasonably possible to disagree with that. If you're cool with WHY he got that standard... well then whatever. I think you're going more off emotion than any sort of rational analysis though.

And what Twitter posts? He was making fun of Clementi prior to finding out he was gay. His orientation was just another element.

Why is there a homophobic bully defense force? Ravi is to blame here, for every aspect, from the suicide to the very fact that he was convicted and faces jail time and deportation. He made a series of cruel and poorly thought out decisions, inspired largely by hatred and a complete lack of respect. This is his doing, but you're carrying his water for him. Why?

Ravi got "screwed" because Ravi fucked up his own life, and the lives of many others in the process. Get a grip.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

Are you honestly going to argue that he wasn't a homophobe? With that quote above?

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-03-05/...-clementi-dharun-ravi-gw-bridge?_s=PM:JUSTICE

Edit: He's being held to a different standard because someone is DEAD as a result of his idiotic actions.

Someone is dead AS A RESULT of his actions? Really? Not because of all the other people who shunned Clementi? Not because Clementi took his life into his own hands? Bullshit.

Also to people saying Clementi was outed by Ravi, you are wrong. Period. Clementi was out.

I've had close family members kill themselves. Their primary motivations were directly related to other people cheating them poorly. I place NO BLAME on those other people for the deaths. I place blame on those people for being shitty human beings, but not for the deaths. Get your shit straight people.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

Here is a New Yorker piece on the trial. It gives way more in depth facts than most of the reporting out there. I'd suggest everyone read it before claiming to understand the facts.

 

[CrudeDiatribe]

Here is a New Yorker piece on the trial. It gives way more in depth facts than most of the reporting out there. I'd suggest everyone read it before claiming to understand the facts.

I was just going to post that in reply to some of the things you've posted in this thread; are you going to change your tune in light of it?

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

I was just going to post that in reply to some of the things you've posted in this thread; are you going to change your tune in light of it?

Um, to what extent? It shows Ravi and Clementi making fun of eachother long before Ravi even realized Clementi was gay...

 

[Count Dookkake]

roommates can be annoying. and the fact that they're in a shared space like that would you want someone doing that in a small ass dorm room?

Haha, you can't get laid.

 

[twobear]

I stand corrected, apparently Clementi was already out of the closet.

Still not sure I forgive Ravi for anything.

 

[params7]

There might have been other motivators for the kid who killed himself but Ravi should have acknowledged that before playing the prank on him and it was a very, very shitty prank. Digital copies like that on net can never be destroyed, it would always would have stuck with him.

 

[ToxicAdam]

Minority wrongs a white person, gets the book thrown at him.

Nothing new here.

 

[Jasoneyu]

No I'm going to argue his actions weren't clearly motivated by his homophobia rather than his dislike for his awkward roommate. I'm also gonna argue Ravi wasn't the primary reason for Clementi's suicide. Hell probably not even in the top 5.

Seriously?! it wasn't his top 5 !?! I am sure there was other factors in his suicide but Ravi's actions had a HUGE impact.

 

[jmdajr]

Minority wrongs a white person, gets the book thrown at him.

Nothing new here.

Gays are minorities too no?

 

[btkadams]

No I'm going to argue his actions weren't clearly motivated by his homophobia rather than his dislike for his awkward roommate. I'm also gonna argue Ravi wasn't the primary reason for Clementi's suicide. Hell probably not even in the top 5.

seriously? i'm cool with you arguing about the severity of ravi's punishment, but ravi's bullying/exposure was most definitely the leading factor that pushed clementi to commit suicide.

 

[sangreal]

Seriously?! it wasn't his top 5 !?! I am sure there was other factors in his suicide but Ravi's actions had a HUGE impact.

seriously? i'm cool with you arguing about the severity of ravi's punishment, but ravi's bullying/exposure was most definitely the leading factor that pushed clementi to commit suicide.

What is your evidence for that? On the internet, Clementi joked about "having a good time" with his partner after discovering (and defeating) Ravi's intentions

 

[ToxicAdam]

Gays are minorities too no?

The color of your skin trumps all, you know this.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

Seriously?! it wasn't his top 5 !?! I am sure there was other factors in his suicide but Ravi's actions had a HUGE impact.

There's an extensive record of Clementi discussing his feelings of isolation/loneliness in regards to people in general and his family. He was a depressed kid. Ravi may well have pushed him over the edge. I'm not convinced that's true, but I'm open to the possibility. Suicide is a complicated thing. The bottom line is that trying to "blame" someone for suicide is just stupid.

 

[jmdajr]

The color of your skin trumps all, you know this.

I thought it was gender. That's why Obama beat Hilary!

 

[Vox-Pop]

They should send him to jail in India.

 

[twobear]

What is your evidence for that? On the internet, Clementi joked about "having a good time" with his partner after discovering (and defeating) Ravi's intentions

The fact that he killed himself is a pretty good indicator.

 

[sangreal]

The fact that he killed himself is a pretty good indicator.

Yeah, that is a pretty good indicator that he is suicidal. Now explain how you are linking that to Ravi's actions. As far as I know, he has not explained why he killed himself.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

The fact that he killed himself is a pretty good indicator.

Did he scream "YOU DID THIS RAVI!" while jumping or something and you recorded it? Seriously, the conclusions people reach about why others commit suicide are so fucking stupid.

 

[btkadams]

Yeah, that is a pretty good indicator that he is suicidal. Now explain how you are linking that to Ravi's actions.

because he did it right after ravi committed the actions? it's not like it's a coincidence that clementi happened to commit suicide at that point.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

because he did it right after ravi committed the actions? it's not like it's a coincidence that clementi happened to commit suicide at that point.

Is that timeline correct? I don't think it is, but I'll check.

 

[KibblesBits]

It wasn't related to Clementi's sexual orientation though. It was aimed at he had a roommate he wanted to expose having sex. Irregardless of orientation. I knew people who busted in on roommates having sex in undergrad too. Had nothing to do with orientation.

 

[RawPower]

Minority wrongs a white person, gets the book thrown at him.

Nothing new here.

What?

He was offered a plea, and he rejected it. He would never have had the book thrown at him, if he had accepted it.

 

[sangreal]

because he did it right after ravi committed the actions? it's not like it's a coincidence that clementi happened to commit suicide at that point.

It was a week later

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

Is this for the grammar fail? Cuz I'll accept that. But there's pretty clear evidence Ravi disliked Clementi for a lot of other stupid reasons other than being gay.

 

[params7]

They should send him to jail in India.

And his family there will get him out within a week. They won't give a shit there he made a gay white kid kill himself.

 

[charsace]

roommates can be annoying. and the fact that they're in a shared space like that would you want someone doing that in a small ass dorm room?

Doing what exactly? I wouldn't give a fuck. As long as I don't wake up with some dudes penis on me I don't care how many guys some other dude wants to fuck. Hell, I would imagine having a gay roommate would be a good thing because he would have a ton a female friends that you could jump off.

 

[twobear]

Did he scream "YOU DID THIS RAVI!" while jumping or something and you recorded it? Seriously, the conclusions people reach about why others commit suicide are so fucking stupid.

This is a pretty good point. Unless a person shouts their intentions at all times, it's virtually impossible to assign any motives to them whatsoever.

 

[btkadams]

Minority wrongs a white person, gets the book thrown at him.

Nothing new here.

if anything affected this case, i bet it was the national exposure of gay suicide at the time, along with people like obama taking a stand against bullying. i don't see how this is related to race, although i could be wrong. i think you're reaching a bit.

It was a week later

yes?

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Here is a New Yorker piece on the trial. It gives way more in depth facts than most of the reporting out there. I'd suggest everyone read it before claiming to understand the facts.

Just before midnight, Ravi wrote to Tam: “FUCK MY LIFE / He’s gay.”

He posted a link to the Justusboys page on his Twitter account: “Found out my roommate is gay.”

Tam remembered that Ravi had met a gay student named Carter during orientation at Rutgers, and had since spoken of him admiringly. Tam wrote, “If gay people were like carter, there wouldnt b a problem with gay hatred / Its the fags like this guy that just cause all sorts of trouble.” Ravi replied, “I know.” And then: “He would be born in January / what a gay month.”

Ravi certainly appears to have cared a lot more about the reputational value of gossip than about Picone’s sexuality. (In witness statements taken for the Clementi case, nobody has recalled Ravi being contemptuous of gay people.) If this helps protect him from the charge of extreme prejudice, he might still be accused of lacking empathy: there’s no sign that he was inhibited by the fear that he might cause his roommate embarrassment, or annoyance, by discussing him on Facebook and Twitter. His Twitter account—@Dharun—was public and easy to find. Tyler Clementi read that first tweet about himself before he started at Rutgers.

“Dharun didn’t want Tyler to die.” Rather, he said, Ravi had probably wanted people to be amused by his actions—to “think of him as this bro.”

Great story. Compelling, and rich. And I'm only halfway through.

Um, to what extent? It shows Ravi and Clementi making fun of eachother long before Ravi even realized Clementi was gay...

You could at least read the 14 page story before you ask others to slog through it.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

This is a pretty good point. Unless a person shouts their intentions at all times, it's virtually impossible to assign any motives to them whatsoever.

No, but you're assigning motivation with pretty much nothing, so I figured you had some smoking gun evidence. Especially since there's a record of Clementi saying what Ravi did didn't really bother him that much, but rather that he just didn't like Ravi. Guess not...

 

[twobear]

No, but you're assigning motivation with pretty much nothing, so I figured you had some smoking gun evidence. Especially since there's a record of Clementi saying what Ravi did didn't really bother him that much, but rather that he just didn't like Ravi. Guess not...

Not liking your room mate is not generally a reason to kill yourself, though it is often a reason to change dorm rooms.

 

[CrudeDiatribe]

Um, to what extent? It shows Ravi and Clementi making fun of eachother long before Ravi even realized Clementi was gay...

What!? It says Ravi knew he was gay the night he found his roommate on the internet in August:

Just before midnight, Ravi wrote to Tam: “FUCK MY LIFE / He’s gay.” He had found Keybowvio’s name on Justusboys, a gay-pornography site that also has discussion areas.

The whole article on a single page.

EDIT: beaten by Sho_Nuff82.

 

[KibblesBits]

Is this for the grammar fail? Cuz I'll accept that.

I'm glad we've come to an understanding.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

What!? It says Ravi knew he was gay the night he found his roommate on the internet in August:



EDIT: beaten by Sho_Nuff82.

He also was going on about him being poor, weird, etc. Before that though wasn't he? Also it certainly seems he went off on Clementi more for being "poor" rather than gay....

 

[apana]

Minority wrongs a white person, gets the book thrown at him.

Nothing new here.

Look at the details of a case before you try and place it into a certain category or narrative.

They should send him to jail in India.

Why?

 

[Jasoneyu]

What is your evidence for that? On the internet, Clementi joked about "having a good time" with his partner after discovering (and defeating) Ravi's intentions

Do you honestly believe that Ravi's actions had no major impact on Clementi's actions. I would argue that his actions simply was the tipping point that drove him to suicide.

Ravi was in the room when, sometime after five o’clock, Clementi returned to Davidson C. This may have been the first time they had interacted since Sunday. Ravi later recalled Clementi “doing something by his desk.” That’s where police found the handwritten note, inside Clementi’s backpack. (The note’s contents have not yet been disclosed to the Clementi family.) Ravi and Clementi were there together for less than an hour. It’s not known if they talked—there is no electronic record.

Read more http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2012/02/06/120206fa_fact_parker#ixzz1pIuTkUOe

Right after he committed suicide.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

You could at least read the 14 page story before you ask others to slog through it.

Read it weeks ago....

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Though Ravi could be “kind of funny at times,” and good company, Tam said, “he’s a dick,” adding, “I’d trust a rock more than dharun.”

But Tam’s lack of caution gives a kind of authority to his denial that Ravi was homophobic. As Tam put it, “He’s so much of a jerk that it may seem like he’s a homophobe but he’s not.”

So he's not a real homophobe, he's just an asshole. Where are my damn smilies. This just gets better and better.

 

[FunnyBunny]

He also was going on about him being poor, weird, etc. Before that though wasn't he? Also it certainly seems he went off on Clementi more for being "poor" rather than gay....

That makes it better?

If anything, it adds credence to the argument the bullying was a contributing factor to Clementi's depression, isolation and eventual suicide.