• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Verdict reached in Rutgers webcam spying suicide case

Status
Not open for further replies.
B

brucewaynegretzky

Member
Sho_Nuff82 said:
So he's not a real homophobe, he's just an asshole. Where are my damn smilies. This just gets better and better.
Click to expand...

Still confusing the motivations. He may well be a homophobe. Doesn't make the actions motivated by homophobia. If Tyler Clementi was a shy, "poor", awkward hetero kid do you think Ravi wouldn't have done the same thing? That seems to be the legally relevant question for a hate crime. I believe yes.
 
K

[KoRp]Jazzman

Member
TBH, i think im more ok with the deportation more than the 10 year sentence. What he did was horrible, and I am glad that he is getting something, but 10 years in a prison seems harsh.

His dream was obviously to go to the states and pursue an education, I think denying him that right is fair.
 
A

apana

Member
[KoRp]Jazzman;36092066 said:
TBH, i think im more ok with the deportation more than the 10 year sentence. What he did was horrible, and I am glad that he is getting something, but 10 years in a prison seems harsh.

His dream was obviously to go to the states and pursue an education, I think denying him that right is fair.
Click to expand...

Wasn't he raised here? I'm not sure what his status is.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
brucewaynegretzky said:
Still confusing the motivations. He may well be a homophobe. Doesn't make the actions motivated by homophobia. If Tyler Clementi was a shy, "poor", awkward hetero kid do you think Ravi wouldn't have done the same thing? That seems to be the legally relevant question for a hate crime. I believe yes.
Click to expand...

Racist attacks are often motivated by peer pressure. That doesn't make them magically not racist attacks.

Again, what is your stake in this fight? Because you're carrying water for a fucking clown. He's either a true homophobe, or a true scumbag. Either way, you've spent an immense amount of energy and an conversely small amount of logic fighting for his cause. A cause which at best is reckless scumbaggery.
 
B

brucewaynegretzky

Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
Racist attacks are often motivated by peer pressure. That doesn't make them magically not racist attacks.

Again, what is your stake in this fight? Because you're carrying water for a fucking clown. He's either a true homophobe, or a true scumbag. Either way, you've spent an immense amount of energy and an conversely small amount of logic fighting for his cause. A cause which at best is reckless scumbaggery.
Click to expand...

Right, which is kinda my point. We don't hold all reckless scumbags to that standard.

Like I said, I know people who have committed suicide. There were scumbags involved. It's stupid to blame the scumbag. Suicide is tragic. Placing blame on others is dumb.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
brucewaynegretzky said:
Right, which is kinda my point. We don't hold all reckless scumbags to that standard.

Like I said, I know people who have committed suicide. There were scumbags involved. It's stupid to blame the scumbag. Suicide is tragic. Placing blame on others is dumb.
Click to expand...



Again, Ravi is in this position, in fact, a kind of double jeopardy, because of his own actions. If you want to argue that multiple factors contributed to this poor fellow's suicide, go ahead, but dismissing Ravi's actions as an important contributing factor is logically fallacious.
 
B

brucewaynegretzky

Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
Again, Ravi is in this position, in fact, a kind of double jeopardy, because of his own actions. If you want to argue that multiple factors contributed to this poor fellow's suicide, go ahead, but dismissing Ravi's actions as an important contributing factor is logically fallacious.
Click to expand...

Sure, and being a contributing factor in a suicide isn't something people normally get up in arms about....

EDIT: Also, no one has addressed the question: Do you think Ravi would have done the same thing if his roommate wasn't gay? If yes it isn't a hate crime and the prosecution is a gross overreach due to the increased sentencing. This is where Ravi being a giant tool is also relevant.
 
S

Sofo

Member
I highly doubt this guy would have recorded a straight couple, because it would have been perverted. Ravi felt he had the right to record them and shame his roommate because he was gay (though he used the f-word, of course).

A true charmer.

So yes, I very much think this asshole did this because Clementi was gay (on top of more reasons that made him less likable to Ravi, like being poor and introvert).
 
S

Sarye

Member
Sofo said:
I highly doubt this guy would have recorded a straight couple, because it would have been perverted. Ravi felt he had the right to record them and shame his roommate because he was gay (though he used the f-word, of course).

A true charmer.

So yes, I very much think this asshole did this because Clementi was gay (on top of more reasons that made him less likable to Ravi, like being poor and introvert).
Click to expand...

actually Ravi is just a douchbag. According to testimony, Ravi has tricked his friends in highschool to download a program that granted him access to their webcams. He has a history of acting like an idiot with no regard for people's privacy.

It doesn't excuse his actions but I don't think he did it soley because Clementi was gay. According to the new York times article he was just as upset that Clementi came from a poor family. Ravi grew up in a rich neighborhood and drove a BMW.
 
B

brucewaynegretzky

Member
Sarye said:
actually Ravi is just a douchbag. According to testimony, Ravi has tricked his friends in highschool to download a program that granted him access to their webcams. He has a history of acting like an idiot with no regard for people's privacy.

It doesn't excuse his actions but I don't think he did it soley because Clementi was gay. According to the new York times article he was just as upset that Clementi came from a poor family. Ravi grew up in a rich neighborhood and drove a BMW.
Click to expand...

And that is why it isn't a hate crime....

Hate crimes talk about motivations. Ravi was motivated by his inner douchebag. Not some anti-gay message.
 
Death Dealer

Death Dealer

Member
Sarye said:
It doesn't excuse his actions but I don't think he did it soley because Clementi was gay. According to the new York times article he was just as upset that Clementi came from a poor family. Ravi grew up in a rich neighborhood and drove a BMW.
Click to expand...

Clementi was not from a poor family. I'd call it the definition of middle class.
Ravi was from a well off family though and before he'd even met Tyler, and was trying to find out information about him, he made a comment (can't remember if it was a text or whatever) in which he told someone he hates poor people.

I read that whole New Yorker story last month. Ravi comes off as a total fucking prick. I'm so happy he got convicted and will likely get deported. I can't think of more poetic justice. He can live in India and work in a call center with a bucket to shit in and think about how much he hates poor people.

And yeah what a god damn fool for not taking the plea deal. From what I remember reading, he didn't take it because even though they said they would try and help him not get deported, there were no guarantees. And now it seems like he will certainly be deported, but only have at least a few years in prison. He deserves it. I'm laughing out loud.
 
B

brucewaynegretzky

Member
Death Dealer said:
]
I read that whole New Yorker story last month. Ravi comes off as a total fucking prick. I'm so happy he got convicted and will likely get deported. I can't think of more poetic justice. He can live in India and work in a call center with a bucket to shit in and think about how much he hates poor people.
Click to expand...

Since we're judging people based on their internet posts... yeah you seem like a winner. Do you hate Indians?

If I was Indian I would totally be throwing myself off a bridge right now. You big bully. Go shit in a bucket.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
Clementi's death stirred discussion about bullying, with Obama releasing a videotaped message less than a month later condemning it. A few months later, New Jersey legislators enacted stricter laws to better protect against bullying in schools.
Click to expand...
Can someone familiar with the proceeding tell me if he was found guilty on any of the laws that were later enacted?

If so, wouldn't that constitute ex post facto law ... which is expressly forbidding in the US? And doesn't that open this up to an obvious appeal?
 
B

brucewaynegretzky

Member
Raistlin said:
Can someone familiar with the proceeding tell me if he was found guilty on any of the laws that were later enacted?

If so, wouldn't that constitute ex post facto law ... which is expressly forbidding in the US? And doesn't that open this up to an obvious appeal?
Click to expand...

My understanding is the bullying laws have to do with reporting in schools. Not what was used here.

I have a friend who teaches in NJ, and I don't remember the specifics, but my understanding is every single conflict between students now needs to have a written report and they are required to have what is essentially a mediation.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
brucewaynegretzky said:
My understanding is the bullying laws have to do with reporting in schools. Not what was used here.

I have a friend who teaches in NJ, and I don't remember the specifics, but my understanding is every single conflict between students now needs to have a written report and they are required to have what is essentially a mediation.
Click to expand...
Ah good.
 
L

LuchaShaq

Banned
Freshmaker said:
So if someone secretly taped you having sex and then dumped it on the net, you'd just write it off as a wacky prank?
Click to expand...

Personally? Yes. Even had an ex secretly tape out sex and put it on xtube which was super awkward when someone sent me a link a year later. Apparently she gained about 100 lbs and was having threesomes with dudes. Also I learned that a bunch of people apparently think I'm a sexy straight bear....yup



That said I have no issue with a harsh punishment because this was clearly done malliciously.
 
E

Eric C

Member
Ravi turned down a plea deal offered by Middlesex County prosecutors that would have allowed him to avoid jail time in exchange for undergoing counseling, doing 600 hours of community service and disposing of any information that could identify the man who appeared in the web video with Clementi.
Click to expand...

He turned down this ^

he could now face the maximum penalty: Up to 10 years in jail and deportation to his native India.
Click to expand...

and instead got this ^

LDhZF.jpg

Looks like he regrets turning down that plea deal now.

Not that I feel sorry for him, but damn considering all the charges he was facing that was a generous plea deal.
 
R

RobotMafia

Banned
Ericsc said:
He turned down this ^



and instead got this ^

LDhZF.jpg

Looks like he regrets turning down that plea deal now.

Not that I feel sorry for him, but damn considering all the charges he was facing that was a generous plea deal.
Click to expand...

He would have faced possible deportation even if he took the plea, but at least there the prosecutors said they would try to fight against it for him. Anyway, he sounds like a real moron but I doubt he gets anywhere near ten years.
 
T

Treefingers

Member
Death Dealer said:
Clementi was not from a poor family. I'd call it the definition of middle class.
Ravi was from a well off family though and before he'd even met Tyler, and was trying to find out information about him, he made a comment (can't remember if it was a text or whatever) in which he told someone he hates poor people.

I read that whole New Yorker story last month. Ravi comes off as a total fucking prick. I'm so happy he got convicted and will likely get deported. I can't think of more poetic justice. He can live in India and work in a call center with a bucket to shit in and think about how much he hates poor people.

And yeah what a god damn fool for not taking the plea deal. From what I remember reading, he didn't take it because even though they said they would try and help him not get deported, there were no guarantees. And now it seems like he will certainly be deported, but only have at least a few years in prison. He deserves it. I'm laughing out loud.
Click to expand...
Wtf is this shit?

And wow, he told someone he HATES POOR PEOPLE, how relevant to this case
 
V

Vermillion

Banned
TheSeks said:
I do. Ten years is a drop in the bucket and him being deported back to India is just a slap on the wrist for the fact he basically killed another kid for being gay.
Click to expand...

From where I'm standing, kid killed himself. I mean sure, dick move and all, but the kid made the mistake of killing himself. That shouldn't be on his roommate's hands.
 
A

apana

Member
Death Dealer said:
Clementi was not from a poor family. I'd call it the definition of middle class.
Ravi was from a well off family though and before he'd even met Tyler, and was trying to find out information about him, he made a comment (can't remember if it was a text or whatever) in which he told someone he hates poor people.

I read that whole New Yorker story last month. Ravi comes off as a total fucking prick. I'm so happy he got convicted and will likely get deported. I can't think of more poetic justice. He can live in India and work in a call center with a bucket to shit in and think about how much he hates poor people.

And yeah what a god damn fool for not taking the plea deal. From what I remember reading, he didn't take it because even though they said they would try and help him not get deported, there were no guarantees. And now it seems like he will certainly be deported, but only have at least a few years in prison. He deserves it. I'm laughing out loud.
Click to expand...

I said wow, but not in a good way.
 
T

TheSeks

Blinded by the luminous glory that is David Bowie's physical manifestation.
JokerOfSpades said:
From where I'm standing, kid killed himself. I mean sure, dick move and all, but the kid made the mistake of killing himself. That shouldn't be on his roommate's hands.
Click to expand...

Contributing factor. Kid may have killed himself otherwise, but this was part of the straw that broke the camels back. And from everything I've seen, Ravi doesn't seem like a "winner" and is an asshole and invaded the kids privacy due to the fact he caught his roommate having gay sex.

He's as much a part of the suicide of the kid as anything else in that kids environment and being told "yeah, you can go back to India and be a homophobe there instead of rotting in prison for pushing a kid to jump off a bridge" rubs me the wrong way.
 
N

nyong

Banned
Why the hell would you turn down that plea deal? No jail time vs. potential 10 years in prison and deportation...HMMMMM....
 
V

Vermillion

Banned
TheSeks said:
Contributing factor. Kid may have killed himself otherwise, but this was part of the straw that broke the camels back. And from everything I've seen, Ravi doesn't seem like a "winner" and is an asshole and invaded the kids privacy due to the fact he caught his roommate having gay sex.

He's as much a part of the suicide of the kid as anything else in that kids environment and being told "yeah, you can go back to India and be a homophobe there instead of rotting in prison for pushing a kid to jump off a bridge" rubs me the wrong way.
Click to expand...

The kid still made the mistake. At some point, you can't keep taking other people's shit, and you have to be you. You have to be strong and fight against oppression. Kid chose to kill himself, and that's on him and him alone. The roommate is still a dick, and should have to live with his own mistakes. But the death should not be on his head.
 
B

brucewaynegretzky

Member
Loofy said:
Found this on google.
http://nj-statute-info.com/getStatute.php?statute_id=1576

Im a little confused to what bias intimidation actually is. Cause to me the link above is basically just saying being a bigot can get you 15-30 years in jail.
Click to expand...

Yep, this is why hate crime legislation in this country just typically sucks. Commit a crime against a minority and regardless of your intent people say, "You should have known it would be interpreted by the community as threatening. a(2) is the real kicker there. Basically it says Ravi "should have known" that Clementi would think the internet crime was pointed at his sexuality.

Btw, the jury didn't actually convict Ravi of acting out of his own bias, but rather that he should have known Clementi could perceive it that way, which it isn't even clear he did since he SAID it didn't bother him that much....
 
M

Mondriaan

Member
brucewaynegretzky said:
Btw, the jury didn't actually convict Ravi of acting out of his own bias, but rather that he should have known Clementi could perceive it that way, which it isn't even clear he did since he SAID it didn't bother him that much....
Click to expand...
Clementi said that he was fine with being filmed having sex?
 
P

PumpkinPie

Banned
"He hasn't lived long enough to have any experience with homosexuality or gays," said attorney Steven Altman in closing arguments earlier this week. "He doesn't know anything about it. He just graduated high school."
Click to expand...

20 years old... too young to have grown out of homophobia.


Wait, what?
 
A

Al-ibn Kermit

Junior Member
TheSeks said:
I do. Ten years is a drop in the bucket and him being deported back to India is just a slap on the wrist for the fact he basically killed another kid for being gay.
Click to expand...
Not intentionally, most people would never assume that these actions would lead to a suicide. Does it make any sense to punish this person more harshly than a drunk driver?
 
T

The Lamp

Member
Wait so the girl could have just been like "Hey what's going on in he---oh wow is that porn? :)" and then woken up the next day facing charges and eventually having to do a 3-year-program on cyberbullying and 300 hours of community service?

Seems harsh if she didn't know what was going on. If she did, I still think a 3-year-program for watching some classmate fool around, when it wasn't even her idea or probably she intentionally did to "bully" anyone, is kind of ridiculous.

Ravi is an idiot however.
 
P

PumpkinPie

Banned
Loofy said:
18 years old, still arent comfortable with your sexuality?
Click to expand...

Depends on how you've been brought up and your background, I can imagine that if you were raised as a devout Christian, for example, that you may have some pretty big demons to face and issues accepting or coming to terms with being gay.

You don't choose your sexuality, but you do choose whether or not to persecute someone because of their sexuality.
 
G

Glorified G

Member
TheSeks said:
Contributing factor. Kid may have killed himself otherwise, but this was part of the straw that broke the camels back. And from everything I've seen, Ravi doesn't seem like a "winner" and is an asshole and invaded the kids privacy due to the fact he caught his roommate having gay sex.

He's as much a part of the suicide of the kid as anything else in that kids environment and being told "yeah, you can go back to India and be a homophobe there instead of rotting in prison for pushing a kid to jump off a bridge" rubs me the wrong way.
Click to expand...

What about the other "straws" in his life that contributed to his suicide. Do they all get a pass?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Remember the CEO who paid all employees $70,000 or more?
23
4K
Konnor replied
R.Kelly found guilty on all counts, faces 10 years to life in prison
Social Drama Cringe 2
95
7K
Kreen101 replied
Dentist who defrauded Medicaid and extracted patient tooth while riding hoverboard sentenced to prison
6
1K
Stilton Disco replied
Britain's 'most prolific' rapist jailed for life.
News 2
56
3K
Breakage replied
Missouri police officer told to 'tone down your gayness' reaches $10 million settlement, gets promotion
2
65
4K
H4ze replied
Top Bottom