No he wasn't lol. He's been saying Sony have a tendency to downgrade last minute for weeks. Thuway has actually been right on 90% of his details, much earlier than others to boot.
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VGLeaks: Details multiple devkits evolution of Orbis
- Thread starter shinobi602
- Start date
No he wasn't lol. He's been saying Sony have a tendency to downgrade last minute for weeks. Thuway has actually been right on 90% of his details, much earlier than others to boot.
R10Neymarfan
Member
Oh really? Then how come the AMD GPUs always have the better benchmarks? And whose not to say that Microsoft or Sony will overclock their GPUs to almost match the preformance of a GTX 670/680 or at least near it
Ehh... not defending Thuway but you can only do so much with a CPU/GPU - there is a point where more RAM wont help anything when the Us are filled to the brim with tasks. You can only feed them so much at a time.
specialguy
Banned
umm, it likely wont make much difference at all. 192 gb/s is an insane amount for a console. if the downgrade is slight it'll be fine.
It is probably not by choice. The orignal 192 was based on the lower density GDDR5 chips out now. The upcoming chips with double the density might well run at a slower speed and nothing sony can do about it. I would take twice the ram at a small down grade in speed any day of the week.
That Durango peak figure is limited to a very small amount of RAM in conjunction with the 32MB ESRAM. It is not comparable to a full 4gb of 192 MB/s ram.
systemfehler
Member
I'll take a ban bet with you, it won't be substantial.
Haha we don't have to go that far I would rather be interested what the reason for a "minor" downgrade would be. GDDR5 did not change within the last 2 years and I don't see the need of a clock reduction - you don't save money only some heat which should be neglectable.
That leaves DDR4 and IF that finally works up to 1xx GB/s why can't they reach 192GB/s and even more interesting why doesn't Sony use 8GB ...
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
You guys need to relax.
Thuway absolutely knows what he is talking about guys. I can't state that enough, he is giving you guys the info he receives when its comes from multiple sources. 192 GB/s has been a constant focus in all the documents but things change quickly. He is only doing the courtesy of relaying this stuff to you guys as he hears it. Don't shoot the messenger.
Conversely he could be extremely vague in his data so that he could avoid situations like this but he is giving you all the detail on this stuff he can find.
And probably also take these nice screenshots for the press with ridiculous resolutions
Same, not to mention I hate that shit when it comes to gaming.
And therefore the memory type has changed and is no longer able to offer 192gb/s (a figure which had been stated and restated lots) or gddr5? Seems a little like fumbling for an answer! What else gives you circa 180gb/s? Are we veering into talk of stacking??
Change quickly? As in days?
He said that 4GB unified GDDR5 and 192GB/s bandwidth were a lock a few days ago and people had a huge thread about it.
Now based on a few posts/speculations others have made, not his sources, he completely changed his tune, he's saying that GDDR5 won't be there but they're using some kind of stacked memory with slightly less bandwidth.
Sorry but that doesn't sound like reliable to me, he can't get his facts straight.
Even if he's just the messenger it means that his sources aren't really reliable or up to date with the facts.
Psychotext
Member
Just put something over it.
Then do your freaky masturbation rituals to your hearts content.
They really wanted stacked memory. WideIO will give them that, and will also be cheaper on the long run. Also, not having eight GDDR5 chips on a mobo will provide massive savings.
We shall see...
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Move 2.0? Nooooooo, don´t waste resources on that.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
It will be interesting if Microsoft decides to make the next Xbox more like a platform rather than a single spec machine. KInd of like Ipad with yearly updates each of which is faster than a previous one and runs your existing games with better framerate and resolution. I can see them doing this, core crowd would buy into it heavily IMO.
This was already hinted at in Timothy Lotte's article. Very interesting article btw. I had no idea so many hardware limitations are placed over the APIs on the PC.
This was already hinted at in Timothy Lotte's article. Very interesting article btw. I had no idea so many hardware limitations are placed over the APIs on the PC.
iamshadowlark
Banned
We're talking Ram BW not Ram volume...
You can already have 4 pretty cheaply. 2 also, but a bit more costly.
Wait, you expect the camera to be built into the console?
thesuperfunk
Member
What does 'SOC' stand for when they refer to the newest dev-kit?
Like WiiU?
I've always implied 192 GB/S was a TARGET and that things could change. I have even went so far as to say the 1.84 TF is also a target. Nothing is set in stone until final kits have arrived.Change quickly? As in days?
He said that 4GB unified GDDR5 and 192GB/s bandwidth were a lock a few days ago and people had a huge thread about it.
Now based on a few posts other have made, not his sources, he completely changed his tune, he's saying that GDDR5 won't be there but they're using some kind of stacked memory with slightly less bandwidth.
Sorry but that doesn't sound like reliable to me, he can't get his facts straight.
Even if he's just the messenger it means that his sources aren't really reliable or up to date with the facts.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Change quickly? As in days?
He said that 4GB unified GDDR5 and 192GB/s bandwidth were a lock a few days ago and people had a huge thread about it.
Now based on a few posts/speculations others have made, not his sources, he completely changed his tune, he's saying that GDDR5 won't be there but they're using some kind of stacked memory with slightly less bandwidth.
Sorry but that doesn't sound like reliable to me, he can't get his facts straight.
Even if he's just the messenger it means that his sources aren't really reliable or up to date with the facts.
Elios you have no idea how funny this stuff is. I have two relatively good sources that should have amazing access to stuff and they are constantly out of date. Whoever Thuway is using is pretty dang current comparatively. He has been a solid source for a very long long time. You guys need to trust the parrot.
maverick40
Junior Member
Where are you getting Move 2.0 from? From the sounds of the OP it could be a kinect type device.
Change quickly? As in days?
He said that 4GB unified GDDR5 and 192GB/s bandwidth were a lock a few days ago and people had a huge thread about it.
Now based on a few posts/speculations others have made, not his sources, he completely changed his tune, he's saying that GDDR5 won't be there but they're using some kind of stacked memory with slightly less bandwidth.
Sorry but that doesn't sound like reliable to me, he can't get his facts straight.
Even if he's just the messenger it means that his sources aren't really reliable or up to date with the facts.
You have no idea what you're talking about. He's been saying specs are privy to change for weeks. Just look through his post history.
1) They don't.
2) When they do, it's because they have a lot more theoretical FLOPS. Per FLOP, NV's performance is (and has been for a long time) > AMD's
Everyone (with a lick of sense).
System on Chip. Basically, the GPU and CPU (and other stuff) are integrated on a single die.
That card (gtx 680) is better than the speculated ps4 gpu on every metric we currently have [except power, value etc].
And secondly, it's AMD equivalent [ their top of the line gpu] is a very much a class above the gpu we are talking about.
Thirdly, Nvidia does more with its flops. And they are measured differently.
Top of the line cards:
(Single gpu)
Gtx 680 is like 3 tf
7990 is like 3.7 or something.
LukasTaves
Member
I think it's more to make 3d recordings. Determining depth through stereoscopic images is a lot costlier (computationally) then the method kinect uses. Unless they still maintain a known object (like the glowing ball of move), but i don't know if this would actually make a sizeable difference as pseye can already track the ball quite accurately...
Edit:
Ah, reducing the size of the tracking object could be a reason for the extra camera. Makes perfect sense.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
WiiU doesn't play existing Wii games natively in higher resolution and beter framerate as far as I know. And if it does, it's probably done through emulation.
No, definitely not like WiiU. I think Ipad is a perfect comparison of what I think they might do.
Glorified G
Member
But It seems like you think there is a downgrade based on a vague post, which doesn't even say one way or another if there has been changes.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
You guys have to remember the whole point of the Bandwidth. Sony want's 1080p games at 60fps. They don't want more than that. Its not like they are trying to hit 4k at 60fps.
Knowing that they are going to price this unit to hit that goal so if they can get away with dropping the bandwidth and keeping that target they are going to do it. Thats just smart design.
Knowing that they are going to price this unit to hit that goal so if they can get away with dropping the bandwidth and keeping that target they are going to do it. Thats just smart design.
Well that's what I get when going back and forth multiple threads on my phone
Sometimes hard to keep track where I left a thread.
I think that's a very good question, but one I'm not sure we'll be able to answer until we see the games.
On the plus side people at least built their technology notably ahead of time instead of panicking a year or two late, which has made me much more happy on the PC side recently.
Gemüsepizza
Member
If they will use stacked DDR RAM, couldn't they easily use even more than 4 GB RAM?
Orbis it's a platform, not a pc, it's a bizarre comparison. We are not talking of a single gpu but of a whole system, it's quite different.
Exactly.
I'm not sure i follow you. What is your argument again?
Beelzebubs
Member
Potential is there but as always it will depend on developers.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Sony is probably the biggest pusher of 3D, and they aren't backing down from yet if CES is anything to go by. 1080P 3D will require massive bandwidth, for even PS3 level graphics.
Zoe
Member
Patents actually do take a long time to get approved.
About memory bandwidth:
AMD's high-end 7000-series GPUs have about 60-70 (MB/s)/(GFLOP/s).
The proposed Orbis specs (1.84 TF / 192 GB/s) would be 105 (MB/s)/(GFLOP/s).
CPU memory bandwidth consumption needs to be considered (but it's very small compared to GPU) and more is always better, but from these numbers it wouldn't seem like a small reduction in memory bandwidth would imbalance Orbis.
AMD's high-end 7000-series GPUs have about 60-70 (MB/s)/(GFLOP/s).
The proposed Orbis specs (1.84 TF / 192 GB/s) would be 105 (MB/s)/(GFLOP/s).
CPU memory bandwidth consumption needs to be considered (but it's very small compared to GPU) and more is always better, but from these numbers it wouldn't seem like a small reduction in memory bandwidth would imbalance Orbis.
Nope sorry if I sound rude, of course I've nothing against you, but you passed from talking about 4 Teraflops GPUs and fancy technologies together with jeff rigby, to suddenly become an insider.
Then swearing about 4GB GDDR5 at 192 GB/s just the other day and now it's sufficient that you see someone throwing a bone than you're already talking about a TOTAL change in the memory system in favour of a stacked memory with less bandwidth. Something which should have been decided long ago, stacked memory is advanced tech which makes building your chips much more difficult. You don't plan on using stacked memory as a plan B.
So basically what you're proving here is that your sources, if you really have them, don't know anything definitive, that we're still only talking about rumors and that you change your mind according to the wind.
That's not reliable to me, I mean at this point let's just say that there's nothing we can assume for certain.
But wouldn't having a higher BW allow for devs to do a bit more at 1080p/60fps? I understand the reasons behind dropping the clock, but it almost seems counter-intuitive to do so if they are building what most have said is a more "brute force" machine as opposed to the 720.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Last thing about Thuway. He has no console bias whatsoever. Look at his post history and you can see he has no leanings one way or the other. He just wants the best systems possible. With info like this you need someone to be completely unbiased. If he wasn't he would constantly be trying to spin every piece of news into some type of advantage and he isn't.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
It's better, yes, but you should really read this:
http://timothylottes.blogspot.fr/2013/01/orbis-and-durango.html
to get an idea why comments like that keep popping up. It's not just crazy wishful thinking.
You basically said Orbis can't compete graphically with a GTX680 based only of rumoured GPU specs, right? I don't think it's worth when we are talking of a whole hardware vs a single GPU. imho.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Damnit last post again!
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