Support NeoGAF

[DieH@rd]

If they will use stacked DDR RAM, couldn't they easily use even more than 4 GB RAM?

DDR4 and presumably WideIO memory can be stacked to eight levels. But, you can test this stack only when you finish it. More levels, more chances for failure. More failure, more wasted money.

Their vision of consoles is aimed at 4 GB of fast RAM [upped after developer screamed @ 2GB] and chances for going to 6 or 8 is close to zero.

 

[CorrisD]

Cameras are so unsettling to me.

I'm going to have to unplug my console whenever I'm not playing it

Turn the camera around, unplug it? lol.

 

[iamshadowlark]

About memory bandwidth:

AMD's high-end 7000-series GPUs have about 60-70 (MB/s)/(GFLOP/s).
The proposed Orbis specs (1.84 TF / 192 GB/s) would be 105 (MB/s)/(GFLOP/s).
CPU memory bandwidth consumption needs to be considered (but it's very small compared to GPU) and more is always better, but from these numbers it wouldn't seem like a small reduction in memory bandwidth would imbalance Orbis.

Yeah but thats kind of skewed. The Sapphire 7970 is rated at 3.7 TFLOPs and has a theo max BW of 307 Gb/s.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Okay don't hang me gaf.
I am hearing from my source that were looking at something over 170 GB/S

 

[Reiko]

DDR4 and presumably WideIO memory can be stacked to eight levels. But, you can test this stack only when you finish it. More levels, more chances for failure. More failure, more wasted money.

Their vision of consoles is aimed at 4 GB of fast RAM [upped after developer screamed @ 2GB] and chances for going to 6 or 8 is close to zero.

Is this developer First Party or Third Party?

Does the Third Party end in TEK?


....or SOFT?

 

[ghst]

i'm waiting for the conversation to move over to the CPUs. we're seeing games on PC like planetside 2 make the most of PCs with a passmark of 6-8000. i'm not a CPU guy by any means, but i gathered that they suffer less from abstraction than GPUs?

with 8 cores, if each pair of those cores has a PC-side passmark of 800 - giving it a theoretical high end (if perfectly optimally threaded) of 3200, are the gains from "to the metal" programming enough to make up the deficit?

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Okay don't hang me gaf.
I am hearing from my source that were looking at something over 170 GB/S

honestly anything even close to that is pretty fucking great

some people need to chill out.

 

[shinobi602]

Okay don't hang me gaf.
I am hearing from my source that were looking at something over 170 GB/S

I got the rope GAF.

 

[slider]

I am hearing from my source that were looking at something over 170 GB/S

Sounds tasty.

Is your source pm'ing you on GAF? Could your source be thuway's source too?

Hope you'll understand my curiosity.

 

[thuway]

Okay don't hang me gaf.
I am hearing from my source that were looking at something over 170 GB/S

You beautiful bastard.

 

[daveo42]

I am hearing from my source that were looking at something over 170 GB/S

Staying ahead of Durango and their theoretical 170 GB/s? I guess knowing what the competition is doing before coming in at final spec has it's advantages.

720 silicon is at it's final stage before mass production right? So only minor changes to the hardware unless there are any massive yield or quality issues if that's the case.

 

[Boss Man]

So basically they were holding onto vaguer specs than what we already knew and it looks like the DF specs are correct? It looks like we didn't really learn anything new at all, just more validity for the DF specs. Or am I missing something?

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Sounds tasty.

Is your source pm'ing you on GAF? Could your source be thuway's source too?

Hope you'll understand my curiosity.

Not PM and not Thuway's source.

 

[Durante]

Yeah but thats kind of skewed

How so? I just looked at AMDs reference specs for their top 6 cards, and all fall into the 60-70 range.

I am hearing from my source that were looking at something over 170 GB/S

170 GB/s would be 94 (MB/s)/(GFLOP/s). Still quite a bit above AMDs current GPUs.

 

[deanos]

Okay don't hang me gaf.
I am hearing from my source that were looking at something over 170 GB/S

171 GB/S confirmed.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Hang him by his oily keester

 

[KageMaru]

The estimated specs really look great. Lately more and more it's looking like I'll probably pick up a PS4 at launch this fall and just wait on the nextBox, unless the launch line up is much better (which I doubt).

I'm trying not to but next gen hype is starting to creep up on me. =p

sony could overclock the PS4 with firmware updates like they did with the PSP.

They didn't overclock the PSP, they underclocked it which is why they were able to go higher. They basically unlocked the PSP, not overclocked it. Big difference.

-_- It is not going up. There is no benefit of going up. Sony is not looking to use GDDR5 from what it sounds like. It will be downgraded by a few GB, but enough to get you 1080p 60 FPS. You aren't playing games in 4k son.

I thought all indications pointed to them using GDDR5, did I miss something?

It will be interesting if Microsoft decides to make the next Xbox more like a platform rather than a single spec machine. KInd of like Ipad with yearly updates each of which is faster than a previous one and runs your existing games with better framerate and resolution. I can see them doing this, core crowd would buy into it heavily IMO.

This was already hinted at in Timothy Lotte's article. Very interesting article btw. I had no idea so many hardware limitations are placed over the APIs on the PC.

This would be a horrible idea IMO, which is why MS could be stupid enough to try it.

 

[iamshadowlark]

honestly anything even close to that is pretty fucking great

some people need to chill out.

It's alright, you could do a lot worse. It just eeks me when some supposed insider says that it makes no sense to upgrade BW for a GPU.

 

[beast786]

Okay don't hang me gaf.
I am hearing from my source that were looking at something over 170 GB/S

Bruce, at least give me credit for being your reliable source

Spoiler

if its correct ;p

 

[Ashes]

DDR4 and presumably WideIO memory can be stacked to eight levels. But, you can test this stack only when you finish it. More levels, more chances for failure. More failure, more wasted money.

Their vision of consoles is aimed at 4 GB of fast RAM [upped after developer screamed @ 2GB] and chances for going to 6 or 8 is close to zero.

I think this is misleading. RAM changes can be made late, as compared to other parts. Such as in the example of x360 and vita. Or so they say.

 

[Reiko]

170GB. Not bad at all.

 

[AgentP]

Okay don't hang me gaf.
I am hearing from my source that were looking at something over 170 GB/S

Honestly it is higher than I expected (144GB/s), but I expect some headroom is for the CPU.

 

[omonimo]

Will be a very long year.

 

[Interfectum]

What is Durango's rumored RAM speed?

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Bruce, at least give me credit for being your reliable source

Spoiler

if its correct ;p

Damnit Beast I told you to wait in the shadows!

 

[Reiko]

Will be a very long year.

Yeah. It's still freakin January.

Things could change from now till Fall.

 

[iamshadowlark]

How so? I just looked at AMDs reference specs for their top 6 cards, and all fall into the 60-70 range.

170 GB/s would be 94 (MB/s)/(GFLOP/s). Still quite a bit above AMDs current GPUs.

I didn't carry a one, or something. Excuse me.

 

[patsu]

Sounds like a stereoscopic camera (depth).

I hope it's dual mode regular 1080p or fast 720p now !

 

[specialguy]

It's alright, you could do a lot worse. It just eeks me when some supposed insider says that it makes no sense to upgrade BW for a GPU.

it's like anything else, at some point it's stupid without upgrading everything else.

 

[DieH@rd]

Okay don't hang me gaf.
I am hearing from my source that were looking at something over 170 GB/S

I think it will be 176 GB/s.

[It can be easily be divided with 8! Golden rule in computing, numbers like to be divided with 8. ]

 

[Moosichu]

I don't really understand teach-stuff. But I hope this is the Gen where art can really shine through. I also hope that one of Sony's studios is working on a Zelda-esque structured game with WRPG elements crossed with God of War's combat alongside Journey's sand-engine for a desert region. As long as not every announced game is a shooter I will be over the moon with joy. ^_^

 

[gofreak]

I hope it's dual mode regular 1080p or fast 720p now !

There's processing speed to account for too. Although I guess they could always downsample the image from the camera and work on that instead of the full res image if they need to...

 

[Reiko]

I don't really understand teach-stuff. But I hope this is the Gen where art can really shine through. I also hope that one of Sony's studios is working on a Zelda-esque structured game with WRPG elements crossed with God of War's combat alongside Journey's sand-engine for a desert region. As long as not every announced game is a shooter I will be over the moon with joy. ^_^

Great Tech and Art goes hand in hand.

 

[Officerrob]

Staying ahead of Durango and their theoretical 170 GB/s? I guess knowing what the competition is doing before coming in at final spec has it's advantages.

Both of these companies know what they other is doing

 

[ZaCH3000]

I just want the games.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

I think it will be 176 GB/s.

[It can be easily be divided with 8! Golden rule in computing, numbers like to be divided with 8. ]

I like it.

 

[Lord Error]

This would be a horrible idea IMO, which is why MS could be stupid enough to try it.

Works well enough for the Ipad. Noone's making you buy the new one and the never software still runs on the old machine, only if worse.

What is Durango's rumored RAM speed?

68 for DDR3 and ~100 for ESRAM. I think it's more than a little generous to add the two and call it a theoretical maximum though. You pretty much have to copy stuff to esram all the time, if you want to do anything, when there's only 32MB of it.

 

[iamshadowlark]

it's like anything else, at some point it's stupid without upgrading everything else.

Maybe, but that point is alot higher than 192gbps.

 

[Reiko]

Both of these companies know what they other is doing

Yep. But hopefully no last minute stuff like throwing in a RSX. Cell still ended up doing most of the work which was cool and disappointing for their GPU.

 

[gcubed]

Yep. But hopefully no last minute stuff like throwing in a RSX. Cell still ended up doing most of the work which was cool and disappointing for their GPU.

well, it was also because the RSX was old

 

[sajj316]

Yep. But hopefully no last minute stuff like throwing in a RSX. Cell still ended up doing most of the work which was cool and disappointing for their GPU.

Don't think that mistake will be repeated ..

 

[Ashes]

Honestly don't get how they [ microsoft] get away with combined bandwidth, but they must know what they are doing.

 

[Concept17]

Dual cameras? New controller?

Controller is phone.

 

[TheOddOne]

I thought all indications pointed to them using GDDR5, did I miss something?

This is my question aswell.

 

[specialguy]

Maybe, but that point is alot higher than 192gbps.

are you sure when a 660ti, which outperforms the ~7850 ps4 has, has 144 gb/s?

and not only that but you're likely aiming only for 1080p, where 660ti has to go way beyond that if called on?

i think bandwidth is the least of ps4's worries. put it that way. you'd be better off with more cu's than more bw.

or consider, granted the esram, but durango is going to try to work with 68 gb/s of main bw?

 

[gcubed]

Honestly don't get how they [ microsoft] get away with combined bandwidth, but they must know what they are doing.

was the combined bandwidth number anything more then some random assumption by a blogger?

 

[Zuhzuhzombie!!]

So what's the general consensus so far on PS4 vs Xbox 3 based on all these leaks/rumors? Are they going to be close enough to make next gen just as annoying as the beginning of this gen?

They'll be super close. PS4 from the leaks MIGHT have better memory access but so far that's about it.

 

[omonimo]

So now about backward; I mean, psn is full of deals, I can't believe ps4 future owners can't access to those. It's that absurd to expect it? To be optimistic, how many launching games could have? Surely not close the offer of the whole psn package.

 

[KageMaru]

Works well enough for the Ipad. Noone's making you buy the new one and the never software still runs on the old machine, only if worse.

True, but that effects how well the hardware can be utilized. Basically console optimizations are possible due to the thin layered API found on these consoles. By introducing multiple hardware SKUs that are all compatible with these games, you're moving over to a fatter API so devs don't have to write code for each hardware SKU.

I don't like that TBH.

 

[slider]

Not PM and not Thuway's source.

Ok, thanks for commenting on what could've been read as a snarky question.

What else has your source shared? Has it all been memory related? If you can't be bothered answering this one that's fine. I can do a post history search when I have time.