And the same discussion was had last time and for the most part we had parity. Will be the same thing this time with negligible differences if any. I always said before this current gen launched that there would be less exclusives but that would make them more important as the real difference. I feel that trend continuing.
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VGLeaks Durango specs: x64 8-core CPU @1.6GHz, 8GB DDR3 + 32MB ESRAM, 50GB 6x BD...
- Thread starter Shikoro
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And the same discussion was had last time and for the most part we had parity. Will be the same thing this time with negligible differences if any. I always said before this current gen launched that there would be less exclusives but that would make them more important as the real difference. I feel that trend continuing.
I guess they're buffers with fixed logic which make certain datas be readily available to specific components which need them without having to lose time waiting for store/fetch operations.
It's no magic, secret sauce, holy grail, things like that are widely known and used at a inner-level for pipelining.
The same one that was brought up at B3D as a joke, then made the rounds around the net?
Guess that's the one. I'm a law student, not an hardware engineer so really I'm only learning these things as I go along.
Can Crusher
Banned
This isn't true. I've been pretty much up to date on rumors and contribution from posters, and the data move engines aren't rumored to be spent on Kinect or audio or video encoding. Even from the vgleaks diagram, that wouldn't make sense, since it already alludes to 2 separate blocks that will take care of audio/video.
Rumor is 4 move units that are all meant to assist the GPU. With none of them being reserved for Kinect.
I think we should look at the "blitter" thing and extract the philosophy behind it, not what it actually is.
phosphor112
Banned
They are separate chips.
Data Move, Audio Codecs/MEC, Video Codecs
I don't see where the "4th" one is.
My mistake was I never meant to imply that those mover units were for Kinect. I saw those 3 chips, 2 were for non-gpu related tasks.
I guess the "data mover engines" is 4 different things put together?
badcrumble
Member
Yeah, I guess "history repeats itself" is pretty much the only thing we need to think about instead of leaked specs or whatever. It seems to be working well for Nintendo with the Wii U. I feel all caught up now, thanks!
They are separate chips.
Data Move, Audio Codecs/MEC, Video Codecs
I don't see where the "4th" one is.
the (alleged) 4 units refers to the data move engines
Can Crusher
Banned
The move block is made of 4 units.
In the same sense that the large CPU block is made of 8 units, not 1.
There you go again with magic and etc. The point here is to understand how these will impact performance.
It is dully noted that there's no magic in the world, the holy grail is a myth, secret sauces are used by chefs and there's no silver bullet to turn durango into something capable of powering skynet. Now let's move on.
According to proelite, aside from the 2 audio/video things, there are 4 engines in that 1 data move engines block in the diagram.
it means 2 things are equal (more or less)
phosphor112
Banned
Oh, I see. Thanks!
Can Crusher
Banned
No problem.
Well I would also guess that these 4 units will be specialized in different aspects. But now we reach the point where it's clear who's a developer, or who's an hardware engineer (in this type of field).
I can't even begin to extrapolate something that makes sense in terms of hardware.
When leaked specs are again very close with little advantages here and there on BOTH consoles then yea. Gamewise both companies are trying to achieve the same thing while staying within a similar price range. We are bound to see similar results and the leaked specs show it. Its obvious we are going to see the same parity this gen with MS and Sony, But whatever, continue to argue the placement of the purple block in the diagram.
most people "leaking" info dont know what are they talking about technically, so it is hard for me to trust them when they basically dont know 0 from 1.
For me it's not obvious, it seems Sony are putting a better GPU in their machine than MS. You can't say it will be a wash because it was a wash the last time around, if one of the companies are aiming at higher spec they will have more powerful hardware.
amstradcpc
Member
But, no one has a simple idea of what the move engines do?.people that say it will increase the gpu performance say that withot knowing a single fact abot their utility?.
pr0cs
Member
It's way too early to make that call, as well as it's too early to say that one system is more powerful than the other.
It's a pointless exercise really. Until we see more concrete details and perhaps see information regarding dev tools and tech demos this thread and the Orbis one is a circle jerk and pissing match if you're here to debate one system's power over another.
Now is the worst time of the system wars, people waiving flags for their 'horse' when we know next to nothing about what either horse looks like.
Phonomezer
Banned
ERP gives a few clues as to what the Data Move thingy is, maybe.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1697305&postcount=418
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1697311&postcount=422
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1697305&postcount=418
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.php?p=1697311&postcount=422
soundscream
Member
Haven't you been reading the thread? It has no games, its a kinect based interactive ad machine.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
nelsonroyale
Member
I don't understand why/how MS would use a lower spec GPU with some advance customization to allow it perform at a similar level to a higher spec GPU, rather than just use a higher spec GPU...I mean unless it is a cheaper option, but extra R&D would indicate it would be
ERP gives example of what it will help with and what it won't. I think this is as clear an answer as you going to get from a developer
Can Crusher
Banned
Only thing we really know is that Durango and Orbis are close, to say other wise would be disregarding what thuway,proelite,lherre and aegies have said.
Funny enough many here were quick to believe thuway and proelite when they were saying that Orbis would have 4GB of GDDR5. Looking through that thread no one even stopped once to question that information. But when these same people come out and say that Durango and Orbis are close, suddenly you have people who don't want to believe that information. I think that says a lot about the agenda some of the people in this thread have.
Funny enough many here were quick to believe thuway and proelite when they were saying that Orbis would have 4GB of GDDR5. Looking through that thread no one even stopped once to question that information. But when these same people come out and say that Durango and Orbis are close, suddenly you have people who don't want to believe that information. I think that says a lot about the agenda some of the people in this thread have.
its cheaper, period. allows them to spend extra money on kinect 2.0 and lower the price of overall package.
You're not the same guy who was posting that the 720 was a set top box that could play games earlier in this thread.
Second thing; Erp works for sony so he is not that credible when it comes to durango news. (I remember something similar with a guy on b3d in 2005/6 who worked for ninja theory saying how much more powerful the ps3 was). Erp said he knows what it does and it is not game changing, but he does not have a full understanding of it, so he can not say that.
Can Crusher
Banned
It's not magical, but it sounds like it's pretty good for efficiency. It's not really bumping up the horsepower, but it's making the horsepower available more usable.
GarthVaderUK
Banned
I believe Proelite also said there wouldn't be DDR3 for the PS4 OS and it would instead use some of the GDDR5 RAM, so he was probably already in some people's bad books for that.
LukasTaves
Member
But he is not being negative about it. On the contrary, he seems to think that it can indeed improve general utilization of the design.
oversitting
Banned
why did they make spoon when a shovel will do?
specialguy
Banned
And Microsoft is putting more RAM in their machine than Sony.
specialguy
Banned
ERP is very credible. Hell, I always get the vibe he's more pro-MS whether he works for Sony or not. But mostly even handed.
The thing is I dont think it needs to be game changing. Currently Durango has more RAM and a 1.8-1.2 flop deficit. What if that deficit was in practice more like 1.8-1.5 thx to the DMA engines?
I think that would be all Durango needs to be competitive if not come out on top. A lot more RAM and a little less GPU=win.
Much slower ram than what's in the Sony console though
I think he's being pretty even-handed and realistic in his commentary about the eSRAM and data movers. His comments actually got me to re-examine my attitude to the memory setup a bit, as per an earlier post. Even if his comments are not hyperbolic, even they don't wax lyrical about 'game changers', they give credit, and give a much better explanation of why MS might have chosen to go with this type of setup and made the tradeoffs they vs the one in 360, than I've seen from anyone else. Everyone else has been vague on this stuff, he offers a pretty straight idea of the reasoning behind it.
Baconsammy
Banned
I just read 5 pages of Sony fans attempting to downplay the "special sauce" because they desperately want to believe what some other rumor said about Orbis being more powerful and Xbox fans defending something they don't have any facts about yet. It's 2013, baby! In other words, 2005 the Sequel. Good times for gamers, fun/hard time for forum mods.
So, Django unchained as a gaming console confirmed by you? No cable box/tv tuner anymore?
specialguy
Banned
seems to be mitigated by various helpers though. esram and dma engines.
Does not matter, Esram and other parts will offset the workload. Freeing up the 68gb for games only. 192gb will be used for the post processing, cpu, frame buffer, etc. Durango is just like the 360, just with easier to use esram that can do more.
Can Crusher
Banned
you know what? f it
/post delete
/post delete