nelsonroyale
Member
If there is a difference in specs there will be a visible difference...it will likely be in performance rather than much visual difference, however. From what we know it is pretty much 7850+ vs a 7770+...
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VGLeaks - Orbis GPU Detailed - compute, queues and pipelines
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If there is a difference in specs there will be a visible difference...it will likely be in performance rather than much visual difference, however. From what we know it is pretty much 7850+ vs a 7770+...
I said rumored because it's a rumor that the Xbox Next CPU is getting 2X the flops of a normal Jaguar Core.
Cell is 200GFLOPS by the way so I wouldn't say it's impossible.
DeFiBkIlLeR
Banned
That Cell figure is single precision, double precision is the industry standard definition these-days, which would translate into a figure less than half that 200.
So your not comparing like with like.
Pitcairn is pretty much the best they could have chosen, 7950 is way too big and power hungry.
JohnnySasaki86
Member
Isn't the 1.84TFLOP number for PS4 GPU, single precision?
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
I think it is just changes to the VMX units, not general purpose at all. They did a similar modification to the 360 CPU.
Like I have said, you will see better effects and higher resolutions on PS4. A game on PS4 will effectively run at 1080p maxed out effects. Durango will run at a lower resolution with scaled back features. They will look close enough for most people to never catch on.
Call of Duty Black Ops on PS3/360 was mentioned to me explicitly.
seattle6418
Member
This is already happening, we had some speculation threads that people posted reports of the chip having bad yields if i´m not mistaken.
Why 6 or 7 for games? I´m seeing this a lot here lately, and what they upped was the RAM amount. We never saw any leak hinting at more than what was previously set for the OS. If the leaks are right, it´s still 0.5gb for the OS, and 7.5gb for games.
JohnnySasaki86
Member
That was a small resolution difference though, miniscule in comparison to 1080p vs 720p. Also 60fps vs 30fps is much more noticeable. Timothy Lottes predicated that framerate difference, based on bandwidth alone, not including a GPU with 50% more flops thats directly comparable. PS4 doesn't need to be twice as powerful in order to get games at nearly twice the framerate. If games on Durango can't hit that "perceptual 60fps" line, which is 50-55fps(which is what the PS4 version may run at), then devs will purposely reduce the framerate to a locked 30fps. Most devs don't want a variable 40-45fps for there games and would rather have a completely locked 30fps.
which would further support the point hes trying to make lol.
I never said 720p. A modified 1080p or a 945p, that's it. 30% difference is comparing a game that is running at 30 FPS on PS4 to 21 FPS on the next Xbox. The moment you rip out AA, and ultra effects, parity becomes easy.
It was 512 MB when the PS4 was going to have 4 GB of RAM. Now they have 8 so they have more breathing room, so they may decide to increase it for a little breathing room. You must not forget once Sony sets aside the RAM for the OS they can never increase it, only decrease it.
because I wasn't pin pointing the exact amount I was speaking loosely since we don't have the full facts about everything.
JohnnySasaki86
Member
Really? You think when a system has 2.5gb's more RAM for games and a lot more bandwidth, that it will only go down to 945p, even if they take out all the AA and whatever else? I guess they would would have to use lower res textures too.
One thing to remember about PS3/360 games. Assets are 95% of the time identical, omitting the very early years on PS3. As are the effects. A change here would already make the difference compared to last gen, quite a bit different. Hence the Xbox vs PS2 comparison. Look at the PS2 version of RE6, vs the GC version. Those differences are way bigger than what we saw between PS3/360 games.
Also 20fps vs 30 fps on avg is huge, compared to something that is runing at 60fps vs 50fps. If its avg 20fps(with it sometimes going as low as 15fps), thats getting close to unplayable IMO.
yes. They really hindering themselves by shoving this vision down our throats. But hey thats there business model, and thats what they think will make them the most successful. If they end up selling more consoles by broading their audience this way, then good for them. But for the hardcore, PS4 seems the way to go.
I guess everyboady win except the hardcore Xbox gamer...
I believe that friend, specially the part you bolded.
What interest EA, Acti or Ubi would have in the PS4 being considerably more powerful than Durango which in turn would still be considerably more powerful than the WiiU?
Do you really believe porting a game like BF3 from PC to the PS3 and 360 was a painless experience?
A lot of compromises had to be made.
Sorry, you're right. I'm probably helping derail the thread.
phosphor112
Banned
CPU flop count is double precision.
GPU flop count is single precision.
It's because they do different types of tasks.
I asked before, but has anyone tried to work out how large each of these SoCs might be?
JohnnySasaki86
Member
Ooooooh! SO thats one of the reasons the GPU number is always so much higher!! It's not apples to apples... what does double precision and single precision actually mean?
This comparison worries me because PS3 BLOPS 1 was a piece of shit port compared to the 360 version. I can't comment on BLOPS 2 since I didn't bother buying that game, but the BLOPS 1 is one of the worst ports I have experienced. Almost on the Bayonetta PS3 port level.
JohnnySasaki86
Member
multiplayer played great on PS3 IMO, very little differences there, and this is really all that mattered to most people(the masses that buy the game mainly do it for MP). If i can remember correctly(according to the DF face off) the main difference was the lower resolution and slightly worse framerate in SP. The IW versions were always much closer though(MW2+MW3).
Ironchef3500
Banned
Higher res and better effects is exactly what I want next gen. I know we havent seen nextbox yet, but as a "hardcore" gamer I feel ps4 is targeted at me.
Galacticos
Banned
new thread material:
Rumor: PlayStation 4 CPU runs at 2 GHz
if someone choose to open a new thread, credit would be nice
Rumor: PlayStation 4 CPU runs at 2 GHz
if someone choose to open a new thread, credit would be nice
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
new thread material:
Rumor: PlayStation 4 CPU runs at 2 GHz
if someone choose to open a new thread, credit would be nice
They never mention how they got this "news".
Galacticos
Banned
Same as any other insider here.
new thread material:
Rumor: PlayStation 4 CPU runs at 2 GHz
if someone choose to open a new thread, credit would be nice
Really ?
Galacticos
Banned
what?
JohnnySasaki86
Member
new thread material:
Rumor: PlayStation 4 CPU runs at 2 GHz
if someone choose to open a new thread, credit would be nice
wouldn't that put the system over 2gflops of total system performance? I would of thought Sony would of emphasized this, and not keep saying "nearly" 2gflops of performance.
TheGreyHulk
Member
the GPU in the PS4 is pretty much the best option to roll with since both MS & Sony were aiming for APUs (CPU + GPU on one chip die), so putting in a 7950 would increase the size of the APU chip by too much and would affect yeilds. If they had a discrete GPU chip that didn't have to share a die with the CPU, then they could have used a 7900 gpu, but due to chip size & yeild limitations, the 7800 series based chips was the best to use since they're smaller chips that pack a big punch, but don't consume a ton of power as well.
the chip in the PS4 is somewhere between a 7850 & 7870. 18 compute unites in the PS4. 7870 has 20 and 7850 has 16. The PS4 also has some customization added into the 18 compute units to improve efficiency when running compute & graphics calculations at the same time.
Both are single precision flops. Both are capable of double precision flops both that is largely useless for game development.
eddfromtheriver
Banned
I'm with you on that one, is it likely that the PS4 will have better AA as well?
If it is running at 2ghz then the system has at least 2tflops. It would have been said in the conference instead of "nearly".
McHuj
Member
32-bit (single precision float) and 64-bit (double precision float) data types.
Both GPU and CPU flop counts are single precision numbers.
GPU Gigaflop count: 2 (single precision ops ADD + MUL) * .800 GHz (Clock) * 1152 (Shader count) = 1843.2 Gigaflops.
CPU: 8 (single precision ops 4 ADD + 4 MUL) * 1.6 GHz (Clock) * 8 (Cores) = 102.4 Gigaflops.
Counter-microsoft tactic?
Punkster_NY
Member
.
Mark Cerny was talking about the GPU when he said "nearly" 2 TF. Not the overall system.
Glorified G
Member
Cerny was specifically talking about the gpu.
new thread material:
Rumor: PlayStation 4 CPU runs at 2 GHz
if someone choose to open a new thread, credit would be nice
Someone said it would be 1.8 GHz but this is even better & the CPU is even starting to look like a beast.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
They made it up?
JohnnySasaki86
Member
Has it ever been confirmed that Durango is using an APU?
Nope, they've said multiple times(press releases, ect) that the total system power was nearly 2tflops.
No, at 2GHz it's still going to be your crappy Jaguar, not a beast by any stretch.
so if it's 2.0 GHz we are looking at about 160 GFLOPS for the CPU?
Does a 2GHz CPU have any impact on GPU clock?
Wouldn't it be fairly easy to get a ballpark size on the PS4? Jaguar is about 6mm^2 (3.1mm per 4 core unit) at 28nm I think, then a 7870 die size should be known (I'm assuming ps4 still has 20CUs but two are disabled for yield purposes). Then sprinkle in some additional bits
Wouldn't it be fairly easy to get a ballpark size on the PS4? Jaguar is about 6mm^2 (3.1mm per 4 core unit) at 28nm I think, then a 7870 die size should be known (I'm assuming ps4 still has 20CUs but two are disabled for yield purposes). Then sprinkle in some additional bits
have you come back from the future where you had a PC or Console with 8 Jaguar cores clocked at 2GHz?
I get 128 GFLOPS, so a 20% boost?
McHuj
Member
Just 128, it's only 25% more.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Why would I need to do that? It's an off-shoot of a mobile line of CPUs, it's not even comparable to your usual 2013 desktop CPU, let alone the high-end ones (which one would describe as 'beasts').