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[thuway]

I have a theory on how Sony could use 4 GB of GDDR5 with an OS overhead. I am quite certain the PS4 has 4 GB of UMA RAM at 192 GB/S, no more, no less. This following is based on speculation and has no grounds in reality.

My theory is the PlayStation 4 OS will take up around 1 GB of of memory when it is booted up. However, when you are gaming, the OS shrinks down considerably to 256 MB of RAM and ONLY allows notifications and one app to "fully" run concurrently (IE Facebook notifications, Skype Calls, etc.). GDDR5 is fast enough so when you hit the "PS" button, your game pauses in the background and the OS reinflates to 1 GB once again. Allowing you the full suite of function while the game is paused in the background.

This technique is currently being used in the Vita. When you game the OS shrinks down considerably and runs a 'lite' version of itself in the background. These numbers are abritrary and pulled out of my ass. I think an economical and common sense approach where Sony allows developers 3.75 GB of GDDR5 to use in gameOS is more than generous, and a financially sound decision as opposed to chucking in another 2 GB DDR/LPDDR RAM module. The cost savings over times will be huge.

 

[i-Lo]

Who and what might you be referring to?

I'd assume the current 4GB GDDR5 rumour coupled with the first deep VGleak rumour.

 

[weekend_warrior]

HAHA, I totally remember being in like 1st or 2nd grade (I am a junior in high school now), and some kid would randomly say like "I have a PS3". I totally forgot about this until now, haha.

 

[Iacobellis]

I realize I am younger than most people here.

 

[Can Crusher]

I realize I am younger than most people here.

You just made me feel old as shit.

 

[Tagg9]

I have a theory on how Sony could use 4 GB of GDDR5 with an OS overhead. I am quite certain the PS4 has 4 GB of UMA RAM at 192 GB/S, no more, no less. This following is based on speculation and has no grounds in reality.

My theory is the PlayStation 4 OS will take up around 1 GB of of memory when it is booted up. However, when you are gaming, the OS shrinks down considerably to 256 MB of RAM and ONLY allows notifications and one app to "fully" run concurrently (IE Facebook notifications, Skype Calls, etc.). GDDR5 is fast enough to when you hit the "PS" button, your game pauses in the background and the OS reinflates to 1 GB once again. Allowing you the full suite of function while the game is paused in the background.

This technique is currently being used in the Vita. When you game the OS shrinks down considerably and runs a 'lite' version of itself in the background. These numbers are abritrary and pulled out of my ass. I think an economical and common sense approach where Sony allows developers 3.75 GB of GDDR5 to use in gameOS is more than generous, and a financially sound decision as opposed to chucking in another 2 GB DDR/LPDDR RAM module. The cost savings over times will be huge.

I realize where you're coming from, but if they just threw in 1GB of DDR3 for the OS, it would literally cost about $5. This is a lot easier than trying to use the same pool for game and OS resources, and would avoid the problem they have now with OS slowdown.

Also, I don't see how they can magically move 768MB of data from RAM to hard disk in the second or two it takes to press the PS button.

 

[Iacobellis]

You just made me feel old as shit.

I'm sorry. By the time next gen. ends, there will be kids on here to make me feel old!

 

[Reiko]

I have a theory on how Sony could use 4 GB of GDDR5 with an OS overhead. I am quite certain the PS4 has 4 GB of UMA RAM at 192 GB/S, no more, no less. This following is based on speculation and has no grounds in reality.

My theory is the PlayStation 4 OS will take up around 1 GB of of memory when it is booted up. However, when you are gaming, the OS shrinks down considerably to 256 MB of RAM and ONLY allows notifications and one app to "fully" run concurrently (IE Facebook notifications, Skype Calls, etc.). GDDR5 is fast enough to when you hit the "PS" button, your game pauses in the background and the OS reinflates to 1 GB once again. Allowing you the full suite of function while the game is paused in the background.

This technique is currently being used in the Vita. When you game the OS shrinks down considerably and runs a 'lite' version of itself in the background. These numbers are abritrary and pulled out of my ass. I think an economical and common sense approach where Sony allows developers 3.75 GB of GDDR5 to use in gameOS is more than generous, and a financially sound decision as opposed to chucking in another 2 GB DDR/LPDDR RAM module. The cost savings over times will be huge.

I would like that. If it is possible.

I do wonder if 1GB or DDR3 RAM is feasible for the OS? But rumors of the PS4 having unified RAM cancels that out.

I'm sorry. By the time next gen. ends, there will be kids on here to make me feel old!

I remember talking about the rumored OG Xbox during my senior year in HS. It was literally the year 2000...

 

[Stephen Colbert]

I have a theory on how Sony could use 4 GB of GDDR5 with an OS overhead. I am quite certain the PS4 has 4 GB of UMA RAM at 192 GB/S, no more, no less. This following is based on speculation and has no grounds in reality.

My theory is the PlayStation 4 OS will take up around 1 GB of of memory when it is booted up. However, when you are gaming, the OS shrinks down considerably to 256 MB of RAM and ONLY allows notifications and one app to "fully" run concurrently (IE Facebook notifications, Skype Calls, etc.). GDDR5 is fast enough to when you hit the "PS" button, your game pauses in the background and the OS reinflates to 1 GB once again. Allowing you the full suite of function while the game is paused in the background.

This technique is currently being used in the Vita. When you game the OS shrinks down considerably and runs a 'lite' version of itself in the background. These numbers are abritrary and pulled out of my ass. I think an economical and common sense approach where Sony allows developers 3.75 GB of GDDR5 to use in gameOS is more than generous, and a financially sound decision as opposed to chucking in another 2 GB DDR/LPDDR RAM module. The cost savings over times will be huge.

Sounds like a great solution.

I hope you guys are right about 4gbs. I would frankly take 4gbs of GDDR5 ram over 8gbs of DDR3 ram any day of the week.

Unless the 720 manages to somehow have 2gbs of eSRAM on the GPU. If so, the 720 would be pretty damn powerful.

I would also handily take 4 high clock Steamroller cores over 8 low clock jaguar cores any day of the week too, especially given that overwhelmingly most gaming pcs have 4 or less cores as well.

So it all comes down to the GPU. Lets hope the PS4 has a 8850 equivalent GPU despite being integrated. If so, it would hands down be the more powerful console.

If not, well the GPU is the most important component of any console so it would all depend on how much better the 720s GPU is, but the 720 could easily come out on top.

 

[thuway]

I realize where you're coming from, but if they just threw in 1GB of DDR3 for the OS, it would literally cost about $5. This is a lot easier than trying to use the same pool for game and OS resources, and would avoid the problem they have now with OS slowdown.

Also, I don't see how they can magically move 768MB of data from RAM to hard disk in the second or two it takes to press the PS button.

A- It is NOT as simple as adding five dollars. PEOPLE NEED TO STOP SAYING THIS. You are talking about the millions required to increase board complexity, parts for repair, heat, and production time. A sensible decision would be to take a modest chunk while being very close to 4 GB of GDDR5.

B- As for the second part I would assume you would need flash based storage on the HD.

 

[i-Lo]

I have a theory on how Sony could use 4 GB of GDDR5 with an OS overhead. I am quite certain the PS4 has 4 GB of UMA RAM at 192 GB/S, no more, no less. This following is based on speculation and has no grounds in reality.

My theory is the PlayStation 4 OS will take up around 1 GB of of memory when it is booted up. However, when you are gaming, the OS shrinks down considerably to 256 MB of RAM and ONLY allows notifications and one app to "fully" run concurrently (IE Facebook notifications, Skype Calls, etc.). GDDR5 is fast enough to when you hit the "PS" button, your game pauses in the background and the OS reinflates to 1 GB once again. Allowing you the full suite of function while the game is paused in the background.

This technique is currently being used in the Vita. When you game the OS shrinks down considerably and runs a 'lite' version of itself in the background. These numbers are abritrary and pulled out of my ass. I think an economical and common sense approach where Sony allows developers 3.75 GB of GDDR5 to use in gameOS is more than generous, and a financially sound decision as opposed to chucking in another 2 GB DDR/LPDDR RAM module. The cost savings over times will be huge.

I remember reading that a member mentioned that during gameplay, devs can have access of over 300MB of system RAM, whereas a PDF stated that of the 512MB, 256 was reserved for OS. So to me, it sounds like the "lite" OS came to fruition. Now because I don't have a Vita, what does the lite version restrict in terms of features that are only accessible post game exit?

 

[Iacobellis]

I remember reading that a member mentioned that during gameplay, devs can have access of over 300MB of system RAM, whereas a PDF stated that of the 512MB, 256 was reserved for OS. So to me, it sounds like the "lite" OS came to fruition. Now because I don't have a Vita, what does the lite version restrict in terms of features that are only accessible post game exit?

Apps such as YouTube. If I remember correctly, the web browser cannot be accessed while in a Party chat.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

A- It is NOT as simple as adding five dollars. PEOPLE NEED TO STOP SAYING THIS. You are talking about the millions required to increase board complexity, parts for repair, heat, and production time. A sensible decision would be to take a modest chunk while being very close to 4 GB of GDDR5.

B- As for the second part I would assume you would need flash based storage on the HD.

Not sure of this, but wouldn't adding 1GB of DDR3 also require its own memory controller too? That would add a lot of complexity/cost just for the OS.

 

[thuway]

Apps such as YouTube. If I remember correctly, the web browser cannot be accessed while in a Party chat.

I think Durango will be the machine that will allow for Nasne recording, Youtube overlay running, and videochat all to work simultaneously as you game. Sony should at max allow notifications and limited function apps.

Not sure of this, but wouldn't adding 1GB of DDR3 also require its own memory controller too? That would add a lot of complexity/cost just for the OS.

If Sony does go this route, I expect 2 GB of LPDDR or DDR4. TBH, the last thing I want is to watch a Youtube video, tweet, party chat, make a phone call to Russia, and boot up Angry Birds - all while COD is running in the background. Keep this shit away and for a premium machine.

 

[i-Lo]

Apps such as YouTube. If I remember correctly, the web browser cannot be accessed while in a Party chat.

Intriguing. Thanks.

OT: You're one of the few new members who I find to be friendly.

 

[Radec]

I hope we can minimize a game on the PS4 like in Vita.

It sucjs that you have to exit the game when you just have to adjust something in the settings like pairing a blutooth headset.

 

[BlackJace]

I hope we can minimize a game on the PS4 like in Vita.

It sucjs that you have to exit the game when you just have to adjust something in the settings like pairing a blutooth headset.

God, I hate that so much. The Vita and 3DS got it right in at least being able to access some Settings functions without closing a game.

 

[Reiko]

If Sony does go this route, I expect 2 GB of LPDDR or DDR4. TBH, the last thing I want is to watch a Youtube video, tweet, party chat, make a phone call to Russia, and boot up Angry Birds - all while COD is running in the background. Keep this shit away and for a premium machine.

Agreed.

 

[Iacobellis]

Intriguing. Thanks.

OT: You're one of the few new members who I find to be friendly.

Wow, that means a lot! Thanks!

I always find you posting in these hardware threads, and you seem to know your stuff. It greatly adds to these great conversations and I really appreciate it.

 

[i-Lo]

Wow, that means a lot! Thanks!

I always find you posting in these hardware threads, and you seem to know your stuff. It greatly adds to these great conversations and I really appreciate it.

OT: Ah, thanks but I must confess, I pretty much regurgitate what I hear here and sometimes use the power of too much imagination. So in truth I know exactly what you know but the complexities when getting into the detail escape me and I compensate for my lack of intellect with active day dreaming. Hahaha.

Also, I mentioned this before, but I hope you know the story behind your avatar.

 

[Mindlog]

I think Durango will be the machine that will allow for Nasne recording, Youtube overlay running, and videochat all to work simultaneously as you game. Sony should at max allow notifications and limited function apps.

That would be dangerously close to repeating what happened this gen. As Sony strives for OS feature parity they're not going to have enough RAM. I'm figuring the bare minimum reserved for OS is 512MB, but 1GB sounds about right. I don't know if it comes from the unified pool or if someone is hiding more RAM somewhere.

All speculation.

If Sony does go this route, I expect 2 GB of LPDDR or DDR4. TBH, the last thing I want is to watch a Youtube video, tweet, party chat, make a phone call to Russia, and boot up Angry Birds - all while COD is running in the background. Keep this shit away and for a premium machine.

Wait...

 

[rdrr gnr]

Why don't you two get a room?

Spoiler

Kidding, of course.

If Sony does go this route, I expect 2 GB of LPDDR or DDR4. TBH, the last thing I want is to watch a Youtube video, tweet, party chat, make a phone call to Russia, and boot up Angry Birds - all while COD is running in the background. Keep this shit away and for a premium machine.

Exactly. All accessible whenever I want, instantly. I hope for quick boot time, as well.

 

[Iacobellis]

OT: Ah, thanks but I must confess, I pretty much regurgitate what I hear here and sometimes use the power of too much imagination. So in truth I know exactly what you know but the complexities when getting into the detail escape me and I compensate for my lack of intellect with active day dreaming. Hahaha.

Also, I mentioned this before, but I hope you know the story behind your avatar.

Yes, I think you mentioned her face was modeled after a man!

http://everything2.com/title/Reiko+Nagase

I could honestly never see it, even after all the years I have played Ridge Racer.

 

[Thamauturge]

Man am I excited for E3 this year! The second a PS4 is announced I will be saving up money! I've owned every PlayStation so far, and this wont be any different, unless they totally drop the ball.

With the PS4, I want to see:

-Backwards compatibility with PS1, PS2 and PS3
-Dualshock 4 maintaining the same design
-Upgraded XMB or even a system kind of like the Vita. I like the Vita OS.

Definitely going to try to get it ASAP if I like it though. If its anything like this gen, Sony will both remove features and make it less visually appealing.

Thing about BC is that I am not that optimistic about it... I would LOVE to see it, especially considering that the PS3 has a bunch of awesome looking upcoming games this year that will still be fresh. It would make the transition much easier. I don't really expect it though due to the Cell...

I hope Sony just makes two models of PS3. One that is much cheaper, and then a premium model that is BC.

 

[androvsky]

I have a theory on how Sony could use 4 GB of GDDR5 with an OS overhead. I am quite certain the PS4 has 4 GB of UMA RAM at 192 GB/S, no more, no less. This following is based on speculation and has no grounds in reality.

My theory is the PlayStation 4 OS will take up around 1 GB of of memory when it is booted up. However, when you are gaming, the OS shrinks down considerably to 256 MB of RAM and ONLY allows notifications and one app to "fully" run concurrently (IE Facebook notifications, Skype Calls, etc.). GDDR5 is fast enough so when you hit the "PS" button, your game pauses in the background and the OS reinflates to 1 GB once again. Allowing you the full suite of function while the game is paused in the background.

This technique is currently being used in the Vita. When you game the OS shrinks down considerably and runs a 'lite' version of itself in the background. These numbers are abritrary and pulled out of my ass. I think an economical and common sense approach where Sony allows developers 3.75 GB of GDDR5 to use in gameOS is more than generous, and a financially sound decision as opposed to chucking in another 2 GB DDR/LPDDR RAM module. The cost savings over times will be huge.

It makes sense. Although I'd point out the OS is going to take around 128 MB (most of the bloat coming from always-present social networking stuff) in any scenario, and wouldn't need inflating until you start up an app. The time to swap the game's memory to flash would be hidden in the app's startup.

And I agree, having separate RAM for the "OS" (in reality, apps) is a lot more trouble than it's worth.

 

[i-Lo]

That would be dangerously close to repeating what happened this gen. As Sony strives for OS feature parity they're not going to have enough RAM. I'm figuring the bare minimum reserved for OS is 512MB, but 1GB sounds about right. I don't know if it comes from the unified pool or if someone is hiding more RAM somewhere.

All speculation.

Wait...

I still feel 512MB is pushing it especially if PS4 indeed only has GDDR5 RAM. But perhaps it's an acceptable figure if it's dump-able/swappable in lieu of a lite version during gameplay.

Yes, I think you mentioned her face was modeled after a man!

http://everything2.com/title/Reiko+Nagase

I could honestly never see it, even after all the years I have played Ridge Racer.

OT: Yea, I remember the shock value of that myself after thinking, "Oh my what a cute girl she is...". My fantasy was shattered.

 

[Iacobellis]

I still feel 512MB is pushing it especially if PS4 indeed only has GDDR5 RAM. But perhaps it's an acceptable figure if it's dump-able/swappable in lieu of a lite version during gameplay.



OT: Yea, I remember the shock value of that myself after thinking, "Oh my what a cute girl she is...". My fantasy was shattered.

Yep, I totally see it now. Just made the eyes a little thinner, changed the bone structure. That's so a man.

 

[rdrr gnr]

Man am I excited for E3 this year! The second a PS4 is announced I will be saving up money! I've owned every PlayStation so far, and this wont be any different, unless they totally drop the ball.

With the PS4, I want to see:

-Backwards compatibility with PS1, PS2 and PS3
-Dualshock 4 maintaining the same design
-Upgraded XMB or even a system kind of like the Vita. I like the Vita OS.

Definitely going to try to get it ASAP if I like it though. If its anything like this gen, Sony will both remove features and make it less visually appealing.

Thing about BC is that I am not that optimistic about it... I would LOVE to see it, especially considering that the PS3 has a bunch of awesome looking upcoming games this year that will still be fresh. It would make the transition much easier. I don't really expect it though due to the Cell...

I hope Sony just makes two models of PS3. One that is much cheaper, and then a premium model that is BC.

I disagree almost point for point. Goddamn, one of us is going to be disappointed.

 

[Reiko]

I disagree almost point for point. Goddamn, one of us is going to be disappointed.

When all of us meet our disappointments... We will take it like real men and women. No meltdowns.

I am hype, but I'm reserving expectations.

 

[Ramblin]

Yes, I think you mentioned her face was modeled after a man!

http://everything2.com/title/Reiko+Nagase

I could honestly never see it, even after all the years I have played Ridge Racer.

All the years huh? I was probably playing Ridge Racer while you were racing out the rigid

 

[Iacobellis]

All the years huh? I was probably playing Ridge Racer while you were racing out the rigid

I guess you saw my other posts in this thread.

 

[coldfoot]

1 or 2 GB of LPDDR memory can easily be stacked to the PS3 I/O controller chip (analogous to northbridge/southbridge on a PC motherboard) without too much cost I think. The CPU would access it the same way it would access the SATA bus, an USB device, or network. Not super high bandwidth but enough for the types of apps it will run.

 

[Ramblin]

I guess you saw my other posts in this thread.

Yes, but don't be sad, you're probably more mature than half the folks here.

 

[Iacobellis]

Yes, but don't be sad, you're probably more mature than half the folks here.

Another compliment! Thank you, you are not so bad yourself.

 

[Crimsonlink]

Going by the rumor the next PlayStation sounds amazing from a tech perspective. I'm more curious about the video card as the RAM seems be stuck at GDDR 2-4 GB based on rumor.

Wish something basic would leak that was 100% accurate or someone broke NDA. (terrible since that person would lose their job but hey I'm getting desperate for info. lol)

 

[Reiko]

Going by the rumor the next PlayStation sounds amazing from a tech perspective. I'm more curious about the video card as the RAM seems be stuck at GDDR 2-4 GB based on rumor.

Wish something basic would leak that was 100% accurate or someone broke NDA. (terrible since that person would lose their job but hey I'm getting desperate for info. lol)

Too early. As long as we're on the right track. No more disappearing posts! lol

 

[Persona86]

Yes, but don't be sad, you're probably more mature than half the folks here.

Some 40 year olds are more immature than some 12 year olds, age really is just a number.

 

[Ramblin]

Some 40 year olds are more immature than some 12 year olds, age really is just a number.

Well duh!!

 

[RaijinFY]

I realize where you're coming from, but if they just threw in 1GB of DDR3 for the OS, it would literally cost about $5. This is a lot easier than trying to use the same pool for game and OS resources, and would avoid the problem they have now with OS slowdown.

Also, I don't see how they can magically move 768MB of data from RAM to hard disk in the second or two it takes to press the PS button.

If it's an APU, i dont see how they could add 1GB of DDR3. An APU, i think, forces you with UMA meaning it's either GDDR5 or DDR3.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

I realize where you're coming from, but if they just threw in 1GB of DDR3 for the OS, it would literally cost about $5. This is a lot easier than trying to use the same pool for game and OS resources, and would avoid the problem they have now with OS slowdown.

Also, I don't see how they can magically move 768MB of data from RAM to hard disk in the second or two it takes to press the PS button.

1GB of DDR3 + 8GB of Flash memory for OS would be godly.

 

[Evolution_1ne]

is there really only 2GB of DDR3 in the wii u?

 

[RaijinFY]

is there really only 2GB of DDR3 in the wii u?

Yeah and not the fastest on the top of that.

 

[beast786]

is there really only 2GB of DDR3 in the wii u?

crazy if you compare that to PS3.

 

[Ashes]

I realize where you're coming from, but if they just threw in 1GB of DDR3 for the OS, it would literally cost about $5. This is a lot easier than trying to use the same pool for game and OS resources, and would avoid the problem they have now with OS slowdown.

Also, I don't see how they can magically move 768MB of data from RAM to hard disk in the second or two it takes to press the PS button.

Only $5 is about $50 million by the time they sell only 10m worldwide.

 

[Avtomat]

192GB/S would imply a 256bit bus and I don't really think they will want to go over 128 bit. Sony might go the XDR route again to keep pin counts down. I think between 90 and 130 GB/S is more realistic.

Having 2 separate pools of memory also complicates design so I am guessing 1 with a generous helping of esram.

 

[BloodMoney]

Adding an additional 2GB of DDR3 (on top of the the 4 GB DDR5) would easily be worth another +50$ at retail, at least as far as i am concerned. Add the ram... $400 vs $450. whatever. It would be nice to know the 4 GB of DDR5 was solely allocated for gaming.

 

[Melchiah]

192GB/S would imply a 256bit bus and I don't really think they will want to go over 128 bit. Sony might go the XDR route again to keep pin counts down. I think between 90 and 130 GB/S is more realistic.

Hopefully they do want to go over that, as we've had a 128-bit bus for two generations, and I'd think it would severely limit the efficiency of the system further ahead.

 

[WalkMan]

I have a theory on how Sony could use 4 GB of GDDR5 with an OS overhead. I am quite certain the PS4 has 4 GB of UMA RAM at 192 GB/S, no more, no less. This following is based on speculation and has no grounds in reality.

My theory is the PlayStation 4 OS will take up around 1 GB of of memory when it is booted up. However, when you are gaming, the OS shrinks down considerably to 256 MB of RAM and ONLY allows notifications and one app to "fully" run concurrently (IE Facebook notifications, Skype Calls, etc.). GDDR5 is fast enough so when you hit the "PS" button, your game pauses in the background and the OS reinflates to 1 GB once again. Allowing you the full suite of function while the game is paused in the background.

This technique is currently being used in the Vita. When you game the OS shrinks down considerably and runs a 'lite' version of itself in the background. These numbers are abritrary and pulled out of my ass. I think an economical and common sense approach where Sony allows developers 3.75 GB of GDDR5 to use in gameOS is more than generous, and a financially sound decision as opposed to chucking in another 2 GB DDR/LPDDR RAM module. The cost savings over times will be huge.

You've just kinda described a fundamental system employed by computer architecture. Basically it's all virtual memory and of course the memory components are swapped to and from the hard drive when needed/not needed. The thing is though that paging to and from the hard drive is expensive and time-intensive.

 

[coldfoot]

If it's an APU, i dont see how they could add 1GB of DDR3. An APU, i think, forces you with UMA meaning it's either GDDR5 or DDR3.

The APU still has to communicate with the southbridge, which can have LPDDR stacked for some low bandwidth memory at minimal cost:

The bus between the CPU and the Southbridge is 5GB/s in the PS3. iPhone 4S/iPad 2 have 6.4GB/s bandwidth and can run many "OS" apps just fine, that bandwidth on iDevices is for the total system including GPU.
I'd say 512MB/1GB of LPDDR2 stacked onto the southbridge would accomplish this task with minimal cost without having an extra memory bus and you have full 4GB of GDDR5 available for games. Sony is already stacking LPDDR chips with the Vita.

Developers would not have any access to this memory at all. It'd be reserved for the PS OS development team and used solely for PS3 OS/security (impossible to do geohot hack if there are no traces on the board between memory and cpu)...

 

[Noisepurge]

You just made me feel old as shit.

i was just about to comment that in my youth it was stuff like "i saw the Megadrive 2, its INSANE"