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[coldcrush]

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2014/06/11/announcing-the-assembly-for-ps4-and-project-morpheus/
did anyone post the new Morpheus 'Assembly' game trailer yet?

Also, I have played with the Morpheus castle demo quite a bit and can confirm it is really good, with traditional games I really do not like motion controls, and find them either annoying or unresponsive, but the move controls feel like they were designed for VR, and were VERY impressive. I could rotate my wrist, do all kinds of weird gestures, move fast, swap hands, etc,,, the triggers to grip things felt more natural than I expected, I am more than happy to experience VR with a gamepad, but was shocked at how good the Move was,,
The screen door effect on the Morpheus was far less obvious than the DK1 (I have yet to try anything beyond that version from Oculus) I am completely convinced of the place that VR holds in the future of all entertainment, irrespective of medium.

 

[Seanspeed]

I really don't see what you are saying when you think it will have a huge impact on smartphones.

Why would giant tethered clumsy goggles have any impact on the device I make phone calls from that sits in my pocket?

Because people do more than just make calls with phones nowadays?

It would add a really fucking cool function to your smartphone. This obviously isn't meant for traveling around, but its something that nearly everybody has(unlike a console or a gaming PC) and it could potentially be completely wireless VR(using your smartphone as the display). Its kind of the end-game of VR(for the foreseeable future, obviously not like in 30+ years), even though its full realization wont happen for quite a while.

 

[coldcrush]

Because people do more than just make calls with phones nowadays?

It would add a really fucking cool function to your smartphone. This obviously isn't meant for traveling around, but its something that nearly everybody has(unlike a console or a gaming PC) and it could potentially be completely wireless VR(using your smartphone as the display). Its kind of the end-game of VR, even though its full realization wont happen for quite a while.

Agreed, the future = google glass type/size device that can do everything, and switch to full VR mode. I think Palmer has attested to this being the end goal down the line also.

 

[diablos991]

Because people do more than just make calls with phones nowadays?

It would add a really fucking cool function to your smartphone. This obviously isn't meant for traveling around, but its something that nearly everybody has(unlike a console or a gaming PC) and it could potentially be completely wireless VR(using your smartphone as the display). Its kind of the end-game of VR, even though its full realization wont happen for quite a while.

I still don't see it.
Using the smartphone as a display really isn't wise due to the variability of form factor and performance that will never be standard. Using components such as camera, GPS, barometer, etc... is equally dumb for the same reason. It is much cheaper and effective to build these into the unit itself.

VR is VR. It has not a damn thing to do with cell phones. The CPU processing power will always be better suited in the device itself or in a more capable computing medium.

Augmented reality is best done with the headset alone (which should be equipped with a camera feed).

Seriously, I can't think of a single thing associating VR with cell phones that will be beneficial in the future.

Cell phones are communications/entertainment devices for people on-the-go. VR headsets aren't exactly for people on-the-go until augmented reality starts to be a thing; in which case, the headset itself will be perfectly capable without a cell phone.

 

[Marion Cobretti]

I really don't see what you are saying when you think it will have a huge impact on smartphones.

Why would giant tethered clumsy goggles have any impact on the device I make phone calls from that sits in my pocket?

I never said that. I said it'll have a bigger impact than smart phones.

But since you brought it up, there's no reason they won't have some impact on them in the future. Considering that you need a computer to run VR, and smart phones are essentially pocket computers that are only getting more and more powerful, its very easy to see how the two can, and will cross paths soon enough.

This obviously isn't meant for traveling around

Only a matter of time til VR is the same size of raybans.

 

[coldcrush]

I still don't see it.
Using the smartphone as a display really isn't wise due to the variability of form factor and performance that will never be standard. Using components such as camera, GPS, barometer, etc... is equally dumb for the same reason. It is much cheaper and effective to build these into the unit itself.

VR is VR. It has not a damn thing to do with cell phones. The CPU processing power will always be better suited in the device itself or in a more capable computing medium.

Augmented reality is best done with the headset alone (which should be equipped with a camera feed).

Seriously, I can't think of a single thing associating VR with cell phones that will be beneficial in the future.

Cell phones are communications/entertainment devices for people on-the-go. VR headsets aren't exactly for people on-the-go until augmented reality starts to be a thing; in which case, the headset itself will be perfectly capable without a cell phone.

Lets say in the next few years Skype is able to figure out a way to include VR, it will make sense to figure out smartphone VR

 

[diablos991]

I never said that. I said it'll have a bigger impact than smart phones.

But since you brought it up, there's no reason they won't have some impact on them in the future. Considering that you need a computer to run VR, and smart phones are essentially pocket computers that are only getting more and more powerful, its very easy to see how the two can, and will cross paths soon enough.

My bad, I misread that part. I have read articles though that indicate Oculus and other VR companies are focusing on cell phones for some weird reason. (which I still really want to understand)

I agree that VR has the potential to be more disruptive than smartphones.

 

[Seanspeed]

I still don't see it.
Using the smartphone as a display really isn't wise due to the variability of form factor and performance that will never be standard. Using components such as camera, GPS, barometer, etc... is equally dumb for the same reason. It is much cheaper and effective to build these into the unit itself.

VR is VR. It has not a damn thing to do with cell phones. The CPU processing power will always be better suited in the device itself or in a more capable computing medium.

Augmented reality is best done with the headset alone (which should be equipped with a camera feed).

Seriously, I can't think of a single thing associating VR with cell phones that will be beneficial in the future.

Cell phones are communications/entertainment devices for people on-the-go. VR headsets aren't exactly for people on-the-go until augmented reality starts to be a thing; in which case, the headset itself will be perfectly capable without a cell phone.

10 years ago, cell phones were basically for calling people and that's it. What something is now doesn't mean it will always be that way, I think you'll agree.

Your limited imagination of how this could be 'a thing' thankfully has little relevance on its actual potential.

You'll see. It'll take a while, but shit is going to get quite crazy in the next 10-20 years.

 

[Atomski]

I think even the Hydra is short-sighted as a 'standard' VR controller.

Really want a proper Kinect, full-body tracking system and maybe even have 3d image processing that puts us in the game, as ourselves. Then something like a power glove would be really cool so we wouldn't have to keep a closed fist and worry about holding onto anything.

Yeah but Im thinking logical.

Kinect dosnt work cause the delay. Imagine moving your hand and in vr seeing it move after you do. It would just be weird.. maybe someday when theres a Kinect 3 with less lag it will work but now.. Nah.

The glove idea is great and I was excited when I saw the kickstarter.. then when i saw they were going for like 600 dollars I was lost. Its gona be a while before that is affordable.

We need a good temporary solution while other technology catches up and I think the Move should not be it.

 

[Seanspeed]

Only a matter of time til VR is the same size of raybans.

Well yea, eventually we'll probably have goggle-like communication devices that have VR functionality, but I dont think VR will ever be meant to be used on-the-move. Augmented reality maybe, but not complete virtual reality.

 

[RetroStu]

Great impressions!

I'm more convinced than ever before that Oculus needs motion controllers similar to Move. I don't want to just be stuck in a chair with a regular controller the whole time.

Its funny because i feel the complete opposite. I'm VERY interested in VR, i can't wait actually BUT i'm only interested in it for the visual nature, the immersion. I still only want to control games with the controller, i'm not and never will be interested in the flailing arms motion control shite.
As long as VR games still give you the option to use a controller then you have a customer here!.

 

[Dr.Acula]

Hey Marion,

As someone who's only tried the rift, how does Morpheus compare in weight, comfort, fov, resolution (you said initially it felt like 720?), etc?

Did the Rift ver you tried have headtracking?

Did the Morpheus have any other sensors that the PS Eye picking it up?

 

[Seanspeed]

Hey Marion,

As someone who's only tried the rift, how does Morpheus compare in weight, comfort, fov, resolution (you said initially it felt like 720?), etc?

Did the Rift ver you tried have headtracking?

Did the Morpheus have any other sensors that the PS Eye picking it up?

Cant answer all those questions, but the DK2 does have head-tracking and Morpheus doesn't have any different sorts of sensors, but it does have an extra camera sensor(or two?) in the back of the unit for full 360 tracking.

 

[Seanspeed]

Yeah but Im thinking logical.

Kinect dosnt work cause the delay. Imagine moving your hand and in vr seeing it move after you do. It would just be weird.. maybe someday when theres a Kinect 3 with less lag it will work but now.. Nah.

The glove idea is great and I was excited when I saw the kickstarter.. then when i saw they were going for like 600 dollars I was lost. Its gona be a while before that is affordable.

We need a good temporary solution while other technology catches up and I think the Move should not be it.

Well I was talking about a Kinect-like system, not necessarily Kinect itself. The full-body tracking of it just seems like the way to go rather than having body harnesses and shit, ya know?

And if we just need a temporary solution, I'd agree the Hydra(or Sixense) would be great, but they're a bit pricey. Something simple like the Move might be more financially practical.

I still dont want to see any 'standards' being set, though. Potential is just way too big for people to starting thinking within boxes.

 

[Marion Cobretti]

Hey Marion,

As someone who's only tried the rift, how does Morpheus compare in weight, comfort, fov, resolution (you said initially it felt like 720?), etc?

Did the Rift ver you tried have headtracking?

Did the Morpheus have any other sensors that the PS Eye picking it up?

You know, I can't really speak for their weight. Although Morpheus did seem to rest better on your head, and had more coverage. By that I mean that all your vision what covered, where as with Oculus, at times I could see reality at the very bottom of my periphery.

Oculus definitely had some head tracking going on for sure in some demos. I definitely remember peaking around corners and stuff.

 

[Hale-XF11]

Its funny because i feel the complete opposite. I'm VERY interested in VR, i can't wait actually BUT i'm only interested in it for the visual nature, the immersion. I still only want to control games with the controller, i'm not and never will be interested in the flailing arms motion control shite.
As long as VR games still give you the option to use a controller then you have a customer here!.

You say you're only interested in immersion. Well, one way to achieve that is by making it so that players can see a pair of arms and hands that they themselves freely control. One of the things I hear quite often from people trying out the latest VR demos is that they find it jarring when they can't see their own hands, but in demos where they can see them, the immersion level goes way up. You can't achieve that with just a regular controller. And why would all games require you to flail your arms? You can have adventure games where you simply pick up and exam objects, but with your own hands. If that's not more immersive than just using a control stick, then I don't know what is.

 

[Myansie]

Treadmills are so excessive for movement. Just use the same method of control the Segway uses.

Leaning!

A more accurate version of the Wii balance board would be perfect. The cameras could do an alright job, but they are ten times the work, processing and all for a laggier and less accurate result.

 

[BrettWeir]

I don't think I can even recall the last time that I was this excited for a new tech.

 

[RetroStu]

You say you're only interested in immersion. Well, one way to achieve that is by making it so that players can see a pair of arms and hands that they themselves freely control. One of the things I hear quite often from people trying out the latest VR demos is that they find it jarring when they can't see their own hands, but in demos where they can see them, the immersion level goes way up. You can't achieve that with just a regular controller. And why would all games require you to flail your arms? You can have adventure games where you simply pick up and exam objects, but with your own hands. If that's not more immersive than just using a control stick, then I don't know what is.

I mean visual immersion (I shoild of actually said that) as in obviously its going to feel more immersive viewing games through VR than viewing games on the TV so visual immersion in that sense. I'm just not interested in motion controls at all.

 

[Ding II]

Just want to relay a post from a friend TheSonicRetard. He doesn't have a GAF account as yet but he wanted to clear up some misconceptions he saw that people may have about Oculus and such

Sigh. Um... no. TheSonicRetard appears to have no idea what he's talking about. Well, actually he seems to know just enough to be dangerous. He got some stuff kinda halfway sorta right.

Here's a short version of what is actually happening, and why:

The Oculus and Morpheus both use an inertial measurement unit (IMU) to detect rotation. This is primarily done via three gyroscopes in the IMU. Since gyros are subject to drift, they are backed up by three magnetometers (think, compasses), and three accelerometers. The magnetometers can (slowly) detect "north", and the accelerometers can (slowly) detect "down", so they can be used to test if the (fast) data coming from gyros is starting to drift. Think of it as a constant re-calibration of the gyros. A sanity check, if you will. The IMU in your phone can do all of this stuff.

Positional tracking works in a similar way, but with different sensors. As I said, the IMU contains accelerometers. They measure acceleration, which can be used to (roughly) calculate velocity, with can in-turn be used to (roughly) calculate position. However, any errors made in measuring acceleration will turn into giant errors after you've integrated them twice to get position. The IMU will (within seconds) think you are shooting off at a high velocity, even if you are standing still. In short, consumer-grade IMUs are useless for measuring location, and that has precisely nothing to do with gravity, nor the frequency of the sensor updates in the IMU.

So, to accurately measure the movement and position of something for more than a fraction of a second, you need something else. Usually, the "something else" is a camera. The Move, the Morpheus, the Kinect, the Rift DK2, the TrackIR, and the Wiimote all use a camera to measure the position of stuff. The Kinect uses some fairly fancy tech to do it, but all the others essentially just look for points that are a known distance apart, and then use trig to decide where those points must be in relation to the camera. Motion to the left, right, up and down can be detected pretty easily. If the points appear to be getting smaller or closer together, the camera can deduce that the points are getting further away from the camera, and vice versa. That's all you need to measure position: A camera, and some points in a known configuration to "look at".

Ah, but there's a rub. Cameras are slow compared to IMUs. And once you've got a picture, you still need to do some clever math to figure out what the picture means. That leads to latency, and in VR, puking. So, developers do something called "sensor fusion" to look at both the camera and the IMU when they they try to calculate position. To oversimplify, they use the IMU to sense the very beginning of a motion, and then use the camera to verify that the motion is actually happening, and isn't just some crazy IMU drift. In a sense, the camera is doing a continuous re-calibration of the fast and sensitive (but very error prone) IMU.

It's even groovier and more complicated than that, because every one of those sensors helps to make every one of the other sensors work better. (E.g. rotation data from the gyros helps the camera better (more quickly and unambiguously) understand what the points it is tracking are actually doing.) Every sensor is providing valuable hints to the other sensors, with reduces their errors. Synergy!

 

[coldcrush]

I mean visual immersion (I shoild of actually said that) as in obviously its going to feel more immersive viewing games through VR than viewing games on the TV so visual immersion in that sense. I'm just not interested in motion controls at all.

I understand your point, and I was in the same camp as you until I tried the Morpheus Castle demo with Move, it was really good. A lot better than I expected, I typically dislike most motion controls, but this worked really well. After this I am excited to see the progression with full ''glove'' type input devices...
I will still gladly play VR with a controller etc, as I think it still works great, but I had my opinion changed after using them.
The other advantage Morpheus has is that I am sure Sony has a warehouse full of old move controlers, and the capability to produce more cheaply that they can bundle with the Headset, so that you don't have to go out and buy a peripheral to test the motion control with

 

[hesido]

VR may catch on, but I don't think threadmills will gain mass popularity. We may see a comeback of arcades that have these threadmills, tho.

How does Sony want to tackle free motion with dual wielded move controllers, them not having any analog stick (Thanks Obama)? Maybe looking at the direction and pushing the top move button?

 

[border]

I still think good VR is a long way off -- like 5-10 years. You need some pretty serious hardware to power this stuff, and on top of that you need a $300+ headset. Most consumers won't be interested at the current price point.

My main concern is that VR will be overpriced and rushed to market -- too expensive, with a low-fidelity experience that does not justify the cost. Reviews will be mixed, hardware manufacturers will lose a ton of money, and interest in developing the tech will crater.

 

[Sepp]

It seems that most people who try it lose interest in the game. They just want to explore the world. Interesting.

 

[YuShtink]

It seems that most people who try it lose interest in the game. They just want to explore the world. Interesting.

Its kind of true. "Playing" a "game" seems a bit like missing the point once you look around for the first time and realize you are actually in virtual space.

 

[disastermouse]

That just positional tracking with the PS4 camera. You wouldn't be able to move very far though. You'll still need analog sticks to "really" move around a game world.

All of this can be solved if they just focus on games where you're in a vehicle or Segway-like 'people-mover' or a mech. As long as your locomotion is somehow vehicular, using controls to move will feel natural. I just don't see omnidirectional treadmills being inexpensive enough to hit mainstream, not even counting the space requirements and safety issues.

So...everyone in mechs, I guess?

 

[disastermouse]

If they do figure out actual walking or running locomotion, I believe we've probably solved the physical fitness problem in the west!

 

[Sharpeye]

Any impressions on the Jurassic Encounter tech-demo?

 

[J-Rzez]

Nice impressions. I always said this will be the next step in gaming immersion, not a doubt in my mind. I've been waiting for decades for this to finally come.

 

[Marion Cobretti]

If they do figure out actual walking or running locomotion, I believe we've probably solved the physical fitness problem in the west!

I know that whenever I'm on the west coast, or on the road for work, I'd love to use VR with a stationary exercise bike at home or a hotel to do some laps in Central Park, or Tour De France, or any other beautiful cycling location.

 

[rjcc]

I had the valkyrie demo and the...I dunno, demon chess? demo at CES.

once you try it, you know why zuckerberg bought it right away. it's real, and the feeling of being in something as opposed to just watching it on a screen is immediately and clearly the next level.

 

[MrFrankFontaine]

You know, I can't really speak for their weight. Although Morpheus did seem to rest better on your head, and had more coverage. By that I mean that all your vision what covered, where as with Oculus, at times I could see reality at the very bottom of my periphery..

Thanks for your impressions Marion!

As far as your comment on being able to see out of the bottom of the Oculus. I got to try out Dev Kit 2 at PAX East. They made sure during the demos that it was adjusted to fit everyone. I didn't have that same experience and although I was in the middle of the convention hall, all I could see was the virtual room I was in for the "Couch Knight" demo. Very cool.

 

[TheBear]

there are omnidirectional treadmills

I thought you were joking. Holy shit.

 

[abracadaver]

Please post a picture of the treadmills.

How do they look and how do they work ?

 

[Pimpwerx]

Awesome impressions. VR and flying cars are 2 things I've waited my whole life for. Now I can get at least one of them. PEACE.

 

[googleplex]

Please post a picture of the treadmills.

How do they look and how do they work ?

There were no treadmills at the Morpheus exhibit.

 

[Marion Cobretti]

They definitely exist though.

This is definately gonna result in the return of arcades.

 

[Dr.Acula]

Please post a picture of the treadmills.

How do they look and how do they work ?

Like this.

 

[YuShtink]

They definitely exist though.

This is definately gonna result in the return of arcades.

I think so too. VR arcade machines can give you the hydraulic/textile sensations that can nearly complete the illusion. Treadmills, gun peripherals, cockpit/driver's seats. You'll be able to have some crazy fucking experiences soon.

 

[Marion Cobretti]

Like this.

That doesn't look like a treadmill. Looks like he's just standing on plastic with shoes that have plastic soles resulting in no friction.

Not a bad solution, but obviously an ultra treadmill is gonna feel the best.

 

[BiGBoSSMk23]

I still think good VR is a long way off -- like 5-10 years. You need some pretty serious hardware to power this stuff, and on top of that you need a $300+ headset. Most consumers won't be interested at the current price point.

My main concern is that VR will be overpriced and rushed to market -- too expensive, with a low-fidelity experience that does not justify the cost. Reviews will be mixed, hardware manufacturers will lose a ton of money, and interest in developing the tech will crater.

I'm almost certain manufactures have considered all this before venturing into VR, and everything's being done so that it becomes more than just a failed pipe dream.

 

[Replicant]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7n5kRRHDpw

So they can no longer say that gaming is a passive physical activity. Now you really have to move your ass around.

 

[meta4]

Really surprised at the number of people preferring morpheus over oculus in their first impressions after trying both. Maybe because it is just much more comfortable to wear and has better camera tracking. Otherwise should the Rift not be technically better for immersion?

 

[Fusebox]

Here's a short version of what is actually happening, and why:

This stuff is crazy interesting to me, thanks for posting it man.

 

[Seanspeed]

Really surprised at the number of people preferring morpheus over oculus in their first impressions after trying both. Maybe because it is just much more comfortable to wear and has better camera tracking. Otherwise should the Rift not be technically better for immersion?

They're saying that the standing up, accurate motion control experience is more immersive, which I'm sure it is. Its a step beyond seated VR. However:

How does Sony want to tackle free motion with dual wielded move controllers, them not having any analog stick (Thanks Obama)? Maybe looking at the direction and pushing the top move button?

This is the main problem with Morpheus' standing up capability. You wont practically be able to move anywhere. So while its possible to have some cool experiences like this, Oculus is probably very right in targeting seated VR for the moment. Sony will likely be focusing on this as well in terms of proper gamer games.

Also hesido, its not impossible for you to be able to move around with Move(at least in rudimentary directions), but you'll need to be seated. If you start moving around in-game but you're standing up and standing still in real life, it'll mess with your equilibrium.

Also, I see people posting just that one treadmill, but there's another one:

Virtuix Omni



It is unlikely these become massively popular anytime soon, but its very hard to think of any other way to tackle the issue of actual movement. I think if VR really takes off, these will stand a chance of being a bit more popular as it'll really take things to the next level.

 

[CountAntonius]

+

+

=

I used to create hotas controllers with legos and play all day imagining being inside a varitech. My childhood dream, so close to fruition.

Already there.

 

[Rhindle]

Really surprised at the number of people preferring morpheus over oculus in their first impressions after trying both. Maybe because it is just much more comfortable to wear and has better camera tracking. Otherwise should the Rift not be technically better for immersion?

Hard to believe anyone would prefer Morpheus over Oculus at the moment. The Oculus headset has better resolution, a wider field of vision, and is physically much more comfortable. Morpheus is very clunky in its current incarnation.

That said, you could argue that Sony's demos are more polished, so that may contribute to the positive impressions. It's not bad for a first iteration, but they have a long way to go before they have something consumer-ready.

 

[Nikodemos]

There's no way a treadmill will become even remotely popular among home users. It'll probably go the way of the force-feedback gaming chair.


OTOH, arcades will definitely get a second lease of life with VR booths. Sony should team up with Sammy Sega and start planning dat arcade revival (and quickly snap up the most promising treadmill design). It's gonna be a world changer. Besides, they need to spread out, now that laptops, TVs and whatever don't work for them anymore.

 

[Seanspeed]

There's no way a treadmill will become even remotely popular among home users. It'll probably go the way of the force-feedback gaming chair.

I wouldn't be so sure in the long term. If you remember that virtual reality wont just be for gaming, I think there could be merit in having a treadmill setup for VR in the home. Could be used for all sorts of things.

This is obviously looking a bit farther into the future(10/15+ years), but shit changes man.

 

[mrklaw]

I still think good VR is a long way off -- like 5-10 years. You need some pretty serious hardware to power this stuff, and on top of that you need a $300+ headset. Most consumers won't be interested at the current price point.

My main concern is that VR will be overpriced and rushed to market -- too expensive, with a low-fidelity experience that does not justify the cost. Reviews will be mixed, hardware manufacturers will lose a ton of money, and interest in developing the tech will crater.

Nah, DK2 sounds good enough already. Anything on too is a bonus. Go too high in spec and you won't be able to drive it with consumer PCs.

They do need to work on controllers though. Kind of a hydra/stem/move/dualshock mashup thing would be a good start.

Zuckerberg has just said he expects the first consumer rift to do 'slightly north of 1m units, targeting early adopters etc'. So just get it out and let it iterate in our hands, not just in the labs.