makingmusic476
Member
Hell of a read. It's a powerful example of the fact that people can and do change, and they shouldn't be written off because of their political views.
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WaPo: The white flight of Derek Black (son of Stormfront founder)
- Thread starter berzeli
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Wandering Robot
Member
Excellent article. Thank you.
I do find it ironic that his father was the one willing to sit down and talk with him after it all, though--the one doing apparently the most work to indoctrinate him. I wouldn't call it a bad loss for Derek, but seeing your family shun you like that can't feel good.
Either way, good for him. I wish him the best.
I do find it ironic that his father was the one willing to sit down and talk with him after it all, though--the one doing apparently the most work to indoctrinate him. I wouldn't call it a bad loss for Derek, but seeing your family shun you like that can't feel good.
Either way, good for him. I wish him the best.
Like a lot of people, I came away from that article with a lot of admiration for Matthew. What he did is indicative of... Some almost intangible trait that I hope I can incorporate into who I am.
If you really consider what he did... He potentially prevented the rise of a powerful new political leader who was going to push a terrible agenda. And he did it with dinner and boardgames, and with discussion and kindness. Not just him, but everyone who attended those dinners.
It reminds me of Daryl Davis, the musician who tried talking to and befriending KKK members. He just wanted to challenge their insular perceptions and actually try and understand why they were who they were. It's not something I think everyone should be doing, what people like Daryl and Matthew do, but I really feel happy that there are people like them out there, who take on those burdens because they want to help everyone.
If you really consider what he did... He potentially prevented the rise of a powerful new political leader who was going to push a terrible agenda. And he did it with dinner and boardgames, and with discussion and kindness. Not just him, but everyone who attended those dinners.
It reminds me of Daryl Davis, the musician who tried talking to and befriending KKK members. He just wanted to challenge their insular perceptions and actually try and understand why they were who they were. It's not something I think everyone should be doing, what people like Daryl and Matthew do, but I really feel happy that there are people like them out there, who take on those burdens because they want to help everyone.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
It's ironic that writing people off for perceived views is so in style lately.
Tinfoilhatsron
Banned
I'm looking this man up and wow, he's amazing. Just trying to talk to them made them accept other races just a bit. I hope to change people too one day, for the better.
piratepwnsninja
Member
Empathy.
It's why, as a Christian, the Christian Right drives me insane. They lack the core tenant of who Jesus was, or at least what he represented. They can't look outside of themselves for a single instant. It's why I don't go to church anymore. It's why I dropped out of ministry (yes, I was a youth minister. Now I work on games with dildo bats.) Even just thinking about it while writing this short post makes me incredibly upset.
edit: This article was great, and does give me some hope for some of my friends and family back home.
GuitarAtomik
Member
Ah man New College lol. I went to art school in the same city and I'm not surprised that rocked his world view some. That's about as liberal a college can get.
User Name Here
Member
Well that was something. Maybe he can now educate other people like himself who were brought up in similar environments.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
Yeah Matthew was such an MVP here, he really showed that kindness can go such a long way.
Bounceounce
Member
Glad he's still on the right path, I actually remembered his story a month or so ago and went to research whether he was continuing this way or whether he backslided into white nationalism, but I couldn't find anything,so I'm really glad this article exists.
Based off the end of the article, he still has a relationship with his family.
astroturfing
Member
damn good read, thanks for posting.
see GAF? a right-wing nutjob CAN change, it just takes some effort and treating them as human beings.. (as hard as that can be sometimes)
i hope all the best for Derek. his switch is like the biggest possible "fuck you" to white supremacists and other racists, so well done!
see GAF? a right-wing nutjob CAN change, it just takes some effort and treating them as human beings.. (as hard as that can be sometimes)
i hope all the best for Derek. his switch is like the biggest possible "fuck you" to white supremacists and other racists, so well done!
entremet
Member
Funny thing is that Christianity is a Middle Eastern religion in origin. Got pushed out by Islam.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I feel the same. I'm an atheist now, but I'll always the remember the dozen *real* Christians I met in the south who volunteered, had kind words for everyone, gave homeless people jobs, etc, because they're so exemplary and everything I wanted to be before I met all the people who make up most American Christians these days and just had to get away.
This was an excellent read, OP. Thanks for sharing!
It certainly is hard, and I think one of the larger factors that went into changing Derek was his separation from the usual social bubble that would have reinforced his previous views.
It certainly is hard, and I think one of the larger factors that went into changing Derek was his separation from the usual social bubble that would have reinforced his previous views.
quickwhips
Member
Crazy cool story. Reminded me a little of american history x. People can change.
Retromelon
Member
I can't read the whole thing, i'm over the 5 article limit for non subscribers. Bah, moan, grumble
Thx brah
Thx brah
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Google the title. They let you read if you come from a search.
Abstrusity
Member
Right. For instance, depending on what white nationalist you ask (why you would ask them is not MY business), Jewish people -- regardless of where they were born and to whom -- Irish, British, French, Spanish, Greek, Italian...anywhere Slavic in origin, really, the only places in Europe that ARE white are Scandinavian countries and Germany.
And, y'know, they're all white. And every group there has faced some sort of discrimination, being labeled as not white, by other people, who themselves have also been labeled not white.
It's got nothing to do with Caucasus region, Aryan refers to its meaning (noble), not to the region it refers to (Indo-Iranic)
People have always been shitty and found any excuse to draw arbitrary tribal lines, but people will ALWAYS be shitty like that, because conceptualizing differences means doing exactly that, by default. Even Clinton's "basket of deplorables" statement, while correct, is another example of it.
Advocatus Diaboli
Member
Amazing and powerful article. Like everyone else mentioned, it's almost unreal that a small Shabbat group undid decades of brainwashing. I also sincerely wish Derek the best, and I hope that he's able to succeed as an agent of positive change.
But I feel a profound sadness for the father. Maybe he'll be able to maintain a relationship with his son. From the article, it looks like the father's been softening his ideology (and I realize how facile it is to say he's "one of the less bad white supremacists"), but it seems like the mother and sisters are even worse. Hope they can bond over the dog and that Derek can challenge his father's ideologies too.
But I feel a profound sadness for the father. Maybe he'll be able to maintain a relationship with his son. From the article, it looks like the father's been softening his ideology (and I realize how facile it is to say he's "one of the less bad white supremacists"), but it seems like the mother and sisters are even worse. Hope they can bond over the dog and that Derek can challenge his father's ideologies too.
QuantumZebra
Member
This.
--
To the people saying "so much for nurture" ... no. Stop.
Nurture *worked* in this case, until the nurtured beliefs were directly challenged, exposed, and overturned by the realities in which Derek interacted. And he was smart enough to understand an analyze this, and change.
So no - nurture working exactly as intended. But shitty views are hard to keep together under a microscope of objective analysis and friendly urging.
What I think also helped was that Derek was questioning his views and was honestly confused. I think what helped Derek greatly were two things; his intellectual curiosity and that Matthew was willing to go the extra mile to give Derek a new community and a new place to belong. He helped to give him a new identity.
j_k_redtail
Member
So much this. I'm in awe of the guy.
Yeah, especially after the crisis of moving to a new school and trying to hide his political past and having it exposed to EVERYONE at the school. He said new posts were messaged to his phone, so for such a small school it must have been devastating. Especially for someone who was homeschooled so his only social interactions were on the website, or at racist retreats.
What a tremendous read, to be able to move on from that must have been one hell of a struggle. I have to commend his friends who instead of pushing him away did their best to logically prove what the truth was. And for him to really come to his own conclusion in the end.
I do feel bad about his relationship with the father, you can tell they do care for one another, no matter what they think. At times I began to wonder if the love for his son could perhaps win him over in due time, even if it takes years into the future when he's old and dying. Can't help but think maybe then at the end he'll realize the truth too and face it.
I do feel bad about his relationship with the father, you can tell they do care for one another, no matter what they think. At times I began to wonder if the love for his son could perhaps win him over in due time, even if it takes years into the future when he's old and dying. Can't help but think maybe then at the end he'll realize the truth too and face it.
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
Wow. That was an incredible story. WaPo has been knocking it out of the park lately.
Derek is obviously a smart man. I don't think his story ends here. I think he can use his intelligence to make a positive impact on our society.
I'm glad he renounced his ties to the alt-right.
Derek is obviously a smart man. I don't think his story ends here. I think he can use his intelligence to make a positive impact on our society.
I'm glad he renounced his ties to the alt-right.
I think the generational divide is a lot tougher to bridge than one among peers, personally. Older and younger people tend to have these built-in buffers about "experience" or "out of touch" that I think makes it pretty hard to deal with, and I think most people find it difficult to be fully open in the way they can be with their friends. I can't imagine Derek's friends' outreach being successful if it had been a bunch of his professors, for example.
The part that hits hardest to me is when Derek is trying to decide whether to cut bait and run from his past or confront it. I can't imagine how tough it must be to have to own up to a past you want to run from.
It's also interesting how much the article makes clear that in almost every way they were pretty great parents. They supported him in his endeavors, they gave him the freedom to figure things out for himself. But they were also a family that focused heavily on activism and promoting really unpalatable and dangerous ideas. I appreciate it doesn't try to weigh these factors; they're just the reality together, even if it's not as thematically neat as we'd like.
Great article. Given the continued problems we face, I'm hopeful this attitude can help sway others.
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
Honestly, I believe any white supremacist can see the light with enough exposure to other cultures.
Louis Theroux did a documentary on a Nazis. It turned out that one of them was friends with a person from Peru. Louis confronts him in the car after the exchange.
I think with enough relationships like the one depicted in the video or in the article can help anyone see the light.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink. We can introduce new ideas and perspectives like Matthew, but it's on people to be self-aware enough to know they're in a bubble and intellectually curious enough to do independent research on hard facts outside of that bubble.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
Depends if the person actually wants to learn like Derek or if they are content living a closed bubbled life of ignorance.
Seems like Derek was in that closed bubble but had a desire to learn.
People need to be willing to change. They need to be open to new ideas and be willing to change their mind. They need to be intellectually curious.
That is hard to replicate.
I think the only way to do that on a large scale is for minorities to actively try to make friends with racists, and slowly change how they see the world through positive interaction. I don't think most people are willing to make the first jump into that scary unknown of challenging who they are and what they believe like Derek Black. They need to be pushed.
I would never expect any minority to actually go out and do this though because it is obviously very difficult and distasteful and places a supremely unfair burden on them.
Who knows, maybe our future demographics will eventually lessen/reduce the racists by simply making it more difficult to shut yourself off from other groups and force more positive interactions between different people.
Palette Swap
Member
I loved the article.
Funnily enough, the very human writing reminded me of another story I read last year on WaPo about a young single black father, and this was the same writer, Eli Saslow.
That guy is 35 and got a Pulitzer in 2014 "For his unsettling and nuanced reporting on the prevalence of food stamps in post-recession America, forcing readers to grapple with issues of poverty and dependency".
Funnily enough, the very human writing reminded me of another story I read last year on WaPo about a young single black father, and this was the same writer, Eli Saslow.
That guy is 35 and got a Pulitzer in 2014 "For his unsettling and nuanced reporting on the prevalence of food stamps in post-recession America, forcing readers to grapple with issues of poverty and dependency".
Loki_the_Chocobo
Neo Member
Fascinating read, it reminded me strongly of an article about two of the grandaughters of the founder of the Westboro baptist church defecting.
Advocatus Diaboli
Member
And I just found out that my friend was a classmate of Derek's at New College, since there were only a handful of Medieval & Renaissance Studies students there. Apparently he was low-key receptive throughout -- went to her thesis defense, started an academic ournal, etc. -- but people were afraid to reach out to him.
Except for Matthew, making him even more of the MVP than he already was.
Except for Matthew, making him even more of the MVP than he already was.
Lightning_Roller
Banned
I'm proud of Derek for confronting and moving away from his past. I'm even more proud of Matthew for reaching out to him and helping Derek change into a better person. Matthew is awesome. And honestly, I probably wouldn't have it in me to do what Matthew did. I'm not even going to lie. I mean, just a few months ago I broke off from a friend because he was a racist and two more friends because they were Trump supporters. I probably wouldn't last five minutes with a person who was raised that way before leaving them in the dust. So once again, Matthew is an incredible person with an incredible heart and he should be proud for what he did.
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