If Putin doesn't step in, Mattis and Trump actually might invade Iran
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WaPo: Trump bans travelers from six Muslim-majority countries applying for visas
- Thread starter WedgeX
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If Putin doesn't step in, Mattis and Trump actually might invade Iran
themadcowtipper
Smells faintly of rancid stilton.
Nah he ment he will see u in court once his justice is confirmed. It will be tough for dems to vote against him, since many votes for him 10 years ago. I'm looking at you Chuck S.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
The government didn't stop fighting, though, did it? It stopped appealing the emergency stay to the ruling pending the case, but there was no evidence it stopped defending the case. I don't even know if the new order moots the old one given the number of people who were affected during the period of limbo.
PopcornMegaphone
Banned
Can someone help me understand the significance of this?
legacyzero
Banned
ACLU rubbing hands together
TheOctodad
Member
Agreed. As much as this sucks, this is far closer to the Obama temp ban. I know, I know, there were better reasons for that one and even then I wasn't in full support of Obama's either.
This might well hold up, like it or not.
themadcowtipper
Smells faintly of rancid stilton.
Good luck. I hope they win the good fight, but this is a different order....This is going to be a tough fight.
NYR
Member
It is basically setting up that Iran is a bad guy and enemy of the US and they need to be taken care of.
This same claim was used for Iraq and justification for war. It was proven incorrect, or in other words was never proven, they didn't sponsor ALQ.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein_and_al-Qaeda_link_allegations
Ghostshark
Member
Trump is a monster. I can't physically protest due to disability, but hopefully donating to the ACLU and making phone calls is enough to fufill my responsibility to my fellow human beings. Aside from donations and calling my representatives, are there any other ways I can fight this from my home?
triplestation
Member
this is straight up racist angst
themadcowtipper
Smells faintly of rancid stilton.
Get out an vote in 18 and 20.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
Pretty much. They don't actually think this is helping national security. They just need to show that they hate brown people and are actively taking action against them.
Ghostshark
Member
That's the plan, I figured that would go without saying, but it's good to not be complacent and assume that others will do the same. Thanks for the reminder.
Time for another donation. Go get em boys and girls
groups like ISIS, Al Queda etc. all follow the Sunni form of Islam, whereas the Iranians follow the Shia form. Very often these groups don't mix very well, for example the Iraq (sunni) Iran (shia) conflict. So, claiming that Iran is linked to Al Queada is ignorant and just blatently stupid
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
Was Obama's ban taken to court though? It could be argued if it was, it may have been ruled against.
I hope the courts see through this facade. There is no evidence that citizens from these countries pose a harm to Americans. It's racist rhetoric at its core.
Little Green Yoda
Member
I think he feels this is a negotiation. 7 country ban is no good? I'm willing to cut it down to 6, but that's as low as I can go!
DontBeThatGuy
Member
It's a gussied up Muslim ban(regardless of how they're spinning it), targeting six Muslim-majority countries that aren't actually exporting terrorism. It's still a bit different than Obama and Iraq.
Seems winnable to me.
themadcowtipper
Smells faintly of rancid stilton.
How so? It seems they took the time to address the issues with the first ban...
Trump is going to have to show that he is not banning people based on religion I think if this goes to court. There is the precedent set by the first ban which the court cited people like Rudy stating it was a Muslim ban. It's going to be hard for the courts to ignore that intention of this administration.
We'll see. I think it could go either way.
Lightning_Roller
Banned
And we got four years of this. FOUR YEARS!!
DontBeThatGuy
Member
How can a religion ban that targets all these countries with no actual justification hold up in court so easily? Obama could at least point to something tangible as the reason for his "tweaking", which targeted a single country, not that it was challenged in the courts.
This needs to be seen for what it is, which is discriminatory at it's very core, stupid and counter-productive.
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Iran in bed with Al-Qaeda?!?
Cmon media, Dems, and sane people; dont fall for this.
And where were the two guys they picked up in Ky in 2011 from? THE COUNTRY TAKEN OFF THE LIST: IRAQ.
Cmon media, Dems, and sane people; dont fall for this.
And where were the two guys they picked up in Ky in 2011 from? THE COUNTRY TAKEN OFF THE LIST: IRAQ.
I'm not sure just winning will do much good. Even if it's still illegal, it's less obviously harmful, so I'm not sure if it will get a immediate stay, which is really what killed the last one. Did the last one even go to trial on its merits? So it will at least appear to be have won until people stop paying attention. And it only needs to survive a few months before it expires in total, so if it looks like it might be defeated, th can just delay the case as much as possible, then let it expire. And Trump has a great deal of experience delaying.
They'll probably be able to spin this pretty easily as a,victory, sadly.
Manmademan
Member
No, you get out and vote twice a year EVERY YEAR. This includes primaries.
These republicans didn't just appear out of thin air. Many of them used state and local positions elected in off years to get where they are, and leverage these local positions to prevent democrats from gaining any traction.
If you want to stop Trump and the republicans who enable him then that starts this year by voting in your primaries.
If there's no Dem running, then congratulations, this is your opportunity to step up.
Hopefully not.
Definitely just a coincidence that they've been sitting on this and released it the Monday morning after Trump made assertions on social media that the previous POTUS committed a felony with only the words of an alt-right blog site to go by.
I wonder how many fucked EOs they're sitting on right now just waiting for Donald the Menace to say something historically stupid for a president.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
I think it's the other way around.
He got people talking about Russia, Schumer, Pelosi, and Obama's wiretap. A couple of days later, he signed this new EO. I have already noticed people are not talking about it as much as the first one.
So did Obama and Clinton. Tough to criticize Schumer on this one.
I will! But probably not for a democrat.
Trump isn't thinking this out, though. It's pretty obvious Bannon is feeding him disinformation because he knows he'll tweet anything.
Also I hope you do vote for a dem if it's between them and a Republican. The more people support their ever more right wing agenda the more batshit crazy your government becomes.
Of course vote for the progressives too!
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Banned
I used to think like that, I have my doubts now.
Why do you think that? Trump hasn't really shown much capacity for thought imo.
Lord Frieza
Member
The Obama 'ban' wasn't a ban really. It was an entirely different situation.
They did not address the legal issues. All they did was make it less inflammatory for the public. With the recent DHS threat assessment showing no data to back up the original ban the legal issues around targeting Muslims will come right back.
The Gorby Congressmanz
Banned
Except rude isn't trump, that statement isn't direct evidence.
Yep they basically made more 'filters' for the country in order to get into this country (aka greater vetting), they didn't out right ban people from a region, religion etc. By banning people again he is just going to repeat what happened earlier this year. You can't ban people based region or religion from entering this country. You can ban individuals if they pose an immediate threat to harm the country, or make it harder for them to enter until all channels for the individual can be vetted (if he were smart this is the route he should have taken, in theory you can ban people without banning people by making the vetting process so obtuse that you delay people from entering indefinitely). By once again specifying a region, banning people without working visa's from those countries he is going to get slapped down in the courts again, the only change is how swiftly that ban is going to get reamed in the courts, the old one had a stay put in record time due to the adverse effect it was having on legal residents of this country and how haphazardly the execution.
The Gorby Congressmanz
Banned
Actually he can. Rudys statement was what halted the last one along with the or order blocked people of every category from those regions.
Now the order is for new visas and 6 countries, along with cutting refugee numbers after a suspension period. It's now harder for a court to SUSPECT it's being done on discrimination and in that case it helps the or order as well technically.
Also a lot of people are saying things are unconstitutional when they are constitutional. Trump can do what he wants with non-citizens they are not protected.
This new order may actually pass.
Highly likely.
Sure but they also aren't going to ignore things Trump himself said like suggesting Muslims be registered. It's up to the court to interpret but they did bring up Rudy the last time as well as other things.
tearsintherain
Member
Except for when Obama's Treasury Department sanctioned 3 high level Al Qaeda operatives in 2016 who are currently living in Iran, and have been designated as a new generation of ALQ leaders:
https://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/jl0523.aspx
Or the 9/11 commission report which noted that Iran and Al-Qaeda worked together in the 90s in Sudan.
Or the documents seized from Osama bin Laden's compound which showed Iran had taken some jihadis prisoner and were in constant negotiations with Al-Qaeda to threaten the prisoners with executions if any attacks inside Iran occured, but was also helping Afghanistan and Pakistan Al Qaeda fighters with money and weapons.
Or in 2014 when the US treasury department alleged that Iran was helping transfer al Qaeda fighters into Syria.
https://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Pages/jl2605.aspx
You know, except for those things and dozens more there really isn't much evidence that Iran is working with Al Qaeda.
The Gorby Congressmanz
Banned
With how the new order is written this actually helps tips case to a judge because it indicates that there wasn't suspicion of discrimination but that there were mistakes and miscommunication in the first order.
Doing new visas and reducing numbers is constitutional. Blocking us. Citizens with dual residence is arguably not.
Tranqueris
Banned
I'm gonna go ahead and say that DOJ and DHS had virtually no say in this new EO (they didn't last time). They probably sat down with Jeff "I was stupid enough to lie under oath" Sessions and asked him if it was good to go.
History has proven liberals to be otherwise, but I've been heartened over the protest and things popping up frustrating Trump and co. It's been greater than I expected or dreamed of.
I'm sure they were stunned by it.
Still, it can be so much more, the news has certainly been cowed by Trump to a good degree.
SolidSnakex
Member
Last Friday on Real Time, Bill brought up that the only way Trump could make the Russia story go away is to start a new war. And so here we are.
jakonovski
Member
So I guess no protests this time? If all Trump needs to do is try everything twice before America just zones out, that's really bad.
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