LegatoB said:I resisted the urge to use almost that exact choice of words. I'm pleased that another was not so tactful!
A serious question to Vic - what exactly is it your company is going to do to seperate itself from the pack? If your plan is to basically be Working Designs, Part 2, with more emphasis placed on the pointless pack-in extras, badly written localization and hiring the worst voice actors you can possibly find, what exactly makes you think this is going to be any more succesful than it was during this past console generation? Given that it's been shown that you will continue to pursue the release of games despite SCEA indicating that they will never, ever allow you to release them, over a period of years, and even when the game you wish to release is really not very good and your fight ends up eventually running your company into the ground, what makes you believe anyone is going to support your newest venture? Have you perhaps learned when to pick your battles? Does anyone actually take you seriously anymore outside of a few die-hards on Internet message boards?
LegatoB said:I never said the translation was bad (although I'm sure many more knowledgable of the Japanese versions can argue that point). I said the writing was bad. "Topical" humor that dates itself almost immedietly is not a substitute for being a good or witty writer, especially when said humor is completely out of place in the game.
Localization refers to the process of translation and adaptation into English, last I checked. Did I miss a memo redefining the word of something? :lolShouta said:No, you said bad localization which entails translation. You can hate on the jokes as much as you want but arguing that because you don't like the jokes, their localization as a whole is bad is pretty stupid. If you don't like the jokes, say that their humor was stupid but don't go about saying it's their localization because you're just asking for someone that does look past it to jump on you.
LegatoB said:Localization refers to the process of translation and adaptation into English, last I checked. Did I miss a memo redefining the word of something? :lol
LegatoB said:Localization refers to the process of translation and adaptation into English, last I checked. Did I miss a memo redefining the word of something? :lol
Tamanon said:Were you an ex-employee there or something?
Shouta said:No, you said bad localization which entails translation. You can hate on the jokes as much as you want but arguing that because you don't like the jokes, their localization as a whole is bad is pretty stupid. If you don't like the jokes, say that their humor was stupid but don't go about saying it's their localization because you're just asking for someone that does look past it to jump on you.
Now that's just a low blow!Shouta said:I think WD used his dog as a sacrifice to get Goemon released over here. Apparently, the dog wasn't good enough.
duckroll said:Just think about it for a moment, in the past 3 years what Japanese game that WOULD be profitable in the US and WOULD be approved by SCEA has NOT been brought over.
Christopher said:A adapation is not the same as a localization...it just doesn't work you purists, it doesn't go play your games in japanese and read the subtitles. Vic your adaption of Lunar SSS and EB were brilliant.
duckroll said:As you said, localization entails the entire process. The fact that their writing/editing is arguably poor and bundled with the fact that they often change game balance tweaks for the worse - would be more than enough for someone to state they offered less than stellar localization. Whether you agree or not is besides the point.
duckroll said:WD did do some good work in the 90s when they were the only company that actually cared about proper localization (the actual quality of the localizations are debatable, but the effort was good) and hence they had no competition. Now with every dick and jane wanting in on the localization scene with XSEED here and Aksys there trying to break into the market, I really do wonder if Vic's efforts have much relevance anymore
More competition means harder profits, and also higher bids for games of value from Japan. Just think about it for a moment, in the past 3 years what Japanese game that WOULD be profitable in the US and WOULD be approved by SCEA has NOT been brought over. Yup, that about sums it up. Good luck with Gaijinworks, but at this point it just looks like another company wanting to get back into an overcrowded market.
I do agree with you that it's crowded market now though and hopefully Vic and Gaijinworks will set themselves apart from everyone else. Then again, it wouldn't be too difficult to do that with your competition being folks like XSEED. =P
So, what do you think of Capcom's adaptation of Devil Kings?Christopher said:A adapation is not the same as a localization...it just doesn't work you purists, it doesn't go play your games in japanese and read the subtitles. Vic your adaption of Lunar SSS and EB were brilliant.
LegatoB said:So, what do you think of Capcom's adaptation of Devil Kings?
duckroll said:Low blow on XSEED! :lol
duckroll said:Honestly though, I don't see XSEED, Aksys, Mastiff (lol) or any of these sudden startups being a threat so to speak, but they just make the market more crowded. The real competition will be from Atlus. Atlus USA today is definitely not the Atlus that WD was compared to back in the PS1 generation.
duckroll said:Also, I feel that the market on a whole has changed such that pretty much every big RPG has a pretty solid localization these days (except when it's Namco Hometek haha) so the overall standard has gone up. It'll be nice if Gaijinworks (ugh... hate... name ) takes all of this into account and surprises everyone, but honestly I'm just not too excited at the moment considering what WD did in the last few years before dying.
Shouta said:Hey, if you want to bust their chops on game tweaks, be my guest. I'm just saying that saying their humor ruined the localization is plain stupid. Although, in Legato's specific instance, he's talking about the script which I don't agree with.
Blackace said:Gaijinworks.... a name Japanese people will avoid and westerns will laugh at.. good choice
Shouta said:I do agree with you that it's crowded market now though and hopefully Vic and Gaijinworks will set themselves apart from everyone else. Then again, it wouldn't be too difficult to do that with your competition being folks like XSEED. =P
alske said:Despite what you say, I found that the constant stream of terrible jokes in Albert Odessey and Lunar 2 (SegaCD version) made the characters impossible to take seriously. Worse, it made it impossible for them to come off as being actual characters as opposed to a stage for hack-writer to crack terrible puns.
LegatoB said:To answer prior questions about what Working Designs did to me: well, I paid money for Albert Odyssey.
MoxManiac said:At least XSEED released their games when they said they would
LegatoB said:To answer prior questions about what Working Designs did to me: well, I paid money for Albert Odyssey.
MoxManiac said:There was nothing wrong with WA4's localization at all.
duckroll said:Except that someone screwed up and made the Monster Guidebook impossible to complete. Hence the unlockable for completing it is impossible to get without a PAR. Great job bug testers! :lol
sonic4ever said:I buy all the japanese type games ( Sega, Snk ) I won an x-box. I bought the X-box just for the Sega games, all the other games were an afterthought. Yes I do own a PS2 and an Gamecube. Actually if you apply your Statement to a broader statement, The Ps2 would be the only system the Hardcore Japophile wuld own. What other Japanese games does the Gamecube have besides Nintedno games,all the Capcom games, one or two sega and Namco games, that would appeal to the hardcore japanophile?
ZeromusMog said:Wait, is Goemon what I think it is, that weirdo blue cat?
Oh god the thought of that thing spewing out Bush jokes makes me want to buy 10, and I'm not joking!
shuri said:They need to bring Front Mission 5 to America. Nobody cares about the irrevelent stuff they want to bring over here. (Goemon? let that relic from the late '80 die already)
Shard said:You are thinking of Doremon.
ZeromusMog said:Wait, is Goemon what I think it is, that weirdo blue cat?
Oh god the thought of that thing spewing out Bush jokes makes me want to buy 10, and I'm not joking!
Oh god, Albert Odyssey Gaiden. That's by far WD's worst work if I were to grade them all. Too many bad jokes, all the time. Then again, the game wasn't good to begin with (it's a ****ing blight on the two very good Albert Odyssey games on the SNES) and the original script was...well I think you could've found more water in the desert.
Christopher said:A adapation is not the same as a localization...it just doesn't work you purists, it doesn't go play your games in japanese and read the subtitles. Vic your adaption of Lunar SSS and EB were brilliant.
vireland said:At the risk of making this thread even MORE bloated, here'ssome of why and how on Albert Odyssey. I picked it up because the person who did the art was the same as LUNAR (Kubooka-san). The game was *okay*, but I was planning on reworking some stuff and getting additional art assets by working with Kubooka. UNfortunately, turns out he hated the project and was embarrassed to have been associated with it, so he didn't want to do any more on it. Oops.
vireland said:And if you thought the jokes in the shipped game were too copious, you should have seen the first draft! That was around the time I was trying to spread out the writing duties, and the person I gave that project to completely overdosed the game on jokes. I thinned them out (maybe keeping 30% of the comedy) in the editing/rewriting phase, but it's still very jokey, even for my personal taste. Game Informer liked it, though - called it the funniest RPG ever or something like that.
vireland said:Game Informer liked it, though
Tellaerin said:It does work... when it's done properly. The goal of localization should be to preserve the spirit of the original as closely as possible while still rendering it accessible to a foreign audience. That means if a character has serious dialogue in the Japanese version of a game, you keep their dialogue serious in the translation, rather than throwing in some jokes to 'improve on' it. Likewise, certain cultural references might be a problem with the intended audience, try to find something analogous that they'd understand, or failing that, come up with something that at least conveys the intended feeling of the original. Same things with jokes and puns - if they aren't funny in translation, then the job should be to pen lines in English that evoke the same general feeling. Looking at the literal translation of the script as a jumping-off point for some kind of 'free adaptation' that plays fast and loose with the dialogue and tone may result in a game that some people would find entertaining, but that doesn't make it a good localization job.
MoxManiac said:Working Designs did Shining Wisdom? Haha.
There was nothing wrong with WA4's localization at all.