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[Montresor]

Just talking about this conversation as a whole, it isn't about playstation fanboyism. Many other indie devs (including myself) have brought in concern that there is a demographic mismatch between this game and the Xbox One consumer base that creates a ceiling for what we might expect it'll sell on the platform as opposed to how it would sell on PS4.

This conversation was brought up as a response to how much the devs financially risked developing the game, which is what this thread is about. It's not pointless, and it's not about platform fanboyism. It's entirely relevant, in fact, much of the conversation wasn't initially about how it'd sell better on PS4, but rather how the userbase demographic doesn't match up as well on Xbox One. When that conversation expanded, developers like me came in to share stories that these types of games do exponentially better on PlayStation platforms (this generation).

None of this is fanboysim, none of it is irrelevant, it's all just an expanding conversation that trails back and remains on point to what this thread is about. And it's also all based on educated speculation, not only from fans but actual developers who have a deep understanding of this space.

What are the types of indie games that do better on PS4 compared to Xbox One specifically?

Because there isn't any game out there like Cuphead that I can really think of.

Do you mean 2-d platformers? 2-d shoot-em-ups? Or another genre?

Wouldn't everything do better on PS4 anyway because of the install base?

 

[ResoRai]

Will get on One X. Best of luck to y'all!

 

[Montresor]

And I've done my part and pre-ordered Cuphead already. I also pre-ordered Tacoma and Super Lucky's Tale. I love niche indie adventure/platformer games on Xbox One.

Cuphead seems like more of a shoot-em-up but I can't pass up on its art style.

 

[BlitzerRadic]

Ori reviewed well, which is a more appropriate comparison, and it didn't flop. It's getting a sequel. And like Ori it's not only on Xbox.

edit: And before I get strawmanned, no, just because Ori did well doesn't mean this will. That's my point; examples that can be easily countered and a gut feeling of "it's just not the type of game that will sell well" isn't enough to claim this game is probably going to bomb.

Not a gut feeling. You named one example. One example doesnt make for a convincing argument, especially when we've had multiple devs say the same thing I'm saying.

No judgement on the game itself, but just the fact its not a dudebro type game means it has bomba written all over it. Good for MS for trying to break that perception though.

 

[Head.spawn]

I don't know what that's supposed to mean, but the game was free on Ps4 and its predecessor by the same developer was all but forgotten on Ps3. The definition of a niche game breaking out into the mainstream just as Minecraft did.

Holy damn. I had to look that up, literally never heard of that game in my entire life. Kudos to them for such a turn around.

 

[t1gerjaw]

I don't know if I should pre-order this on Xbox One or wait and get it on Steam.

 

[superNESjoe]

What are the types of indie games that do better on PS4 compared to Xbox One specifically?

Because there isn't any game out there like Cuphead that I can really think of.

Do you mean 2-d platformers? 2-d shoot-em-ups? Or another genre?

Wouldn't everything do better on PS4 anyway because of the install base?

Platformers and shoot em ups. Anything retro in style (gameplay wise) or similar to Mega Man, Contra, arcade shmups, etc.

Yes the PS4 install base matters, but sales for a lot of these types of games aren't scaling just on install base. It really seems a lot of the Xbox audience is the core shooter sports audience that stuck to that brand, with a much smaller percentage of expanded gamers than what we saw on 360.

Many 360 owners opted for PS4 this time around, and quirky titles do much better there.

 

[Shin]

Yes, this Cuphead game is exclusive to Xbox and PC (with Steam and Win10 versions at launch and a GoG release likely shortly after). There will likely be a Mac version down the road and possibly a Linux version beyond that (unless we lose our houses or whatever).

We own the Cuphead IP.

Good to know that you guys own the IP, though pretty much every platform is listed as a potential candidate to release the game, except PlayStation.
I'm rather curious as to why a studio would want to miss out on such a big audience, it kind of stands out.
Other than that I think you guys did a fabulous job with the game and making your dreams a reality!

 

[Nheco]

I'll buy at a high price

 

[Christocolus]

Yes, this Cuphead game is exclusive to Xbox and PC (with Steam and Win10 versions at launch and a GoG release likely shortly after). There will likely be a Mac version down the road and possibly a Linux version beyond that (unless we lose our houses or whatever).

We own the Cuphead IP.

You guys have done an amazing job, and I hope it does great. will be getting this on XBox ..hopefully on the 1X.

 

[WarRock]

I've played it twice and it's brilliant if you like old school run and gun games like Treasure's Alien Soldier. It really plays beautifully.

Well, now I am hyped beyond belief.

 

[watdaeff4]

Good to know that you guys own the IP, though pretty much every platform is listed as a potential candidate to release the game, except PlayStation.
I'm rather curious as to why a studio would want to miss out on such a big audience, it kind of stands out.
Other than that I think you guys did a fabulous job with the game and making your dreams a reality!

No Nintendo platform is mentioned either.

It's not hard to figure out why those two are excluded.

 

[xabbott]

Platformers and shoot em ups. Anything retro in style (gameplay wise) or similar to Mega Man, Contra, arcade shmups, etc.

Yes the PS4 install base matters, but sales for a lot of these types of games aren't scaling just on install base. It really seems a lot of the Xbox audience is the core shooter sports audience that stuck to that brand, with a much smaller percentage of expanded gamers than what we saw on 360.

Many 360 owners opted for PS4 this time around, and quirky titles do much better there.

I feel like this is pretty selective. I mean even a game like Little Nightmares is/was on the top selling list of both XB1 and PSN. Not top 10 sure but it showed up on XBL's top list and I believe it just fell short of top 10 on PSN. Visiting Xbox One's top paid games list now shows some unexpected titles too. There's a sale going so I'm sure that is affecting things but interesting to see how much price affects indies. Some of the games on the page I've never heard of (Castle Invasion?).

I think across multiple platforms indie games are just having a harder time in general. If you happen to use pixel art and you're an action or platformer game it's even harder to break through.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Anyone else think that $19.99 is too low for this game?

 

[JCG]

Anyone else think that $19.99 is too low for this game?

Without knowing the exact amount of content that's actually in the game, I can't really say this.

 

[Mifec]

Anyone else think that $19.99 is too low for this game?

Not until the game is out, no.

 

[Radical Edward]

So what's MS' involvement with this game exactly? It's not really clear but the devs specifically say only this cuphead game is exclusive. Maybe there will be a complete edition or sequel on other platforms. What could MS have offered to make up for the lost sales and mindshare from not releasing on all platforms. It seems strange to limit your potential sales so drastically if you're re-mortgaging your houses and everything.

 

[Caayn]

So what's MS' involvement with this game exactly? It's not really clear but the devs specifically say only this cuphead game is exclusive. Maybe there will be a complete edition or sequel on other platforms. What could MS have offered to make up for the lost sales and mindshare from not releasing on all platforms. It seems strange to limit your potential sales so drastically if you're re-mortgaging your houses and everything.

The dev gets to keep the IP, funds and marketing (E3 press conference presence, etc.) probably.

Insomniac also went with MS for SO because they were the only one who allowed them to keep the IP, sadly it didn't exactly pay out well.

 

[erlim]

I only own a ps4, but I'll definitely be supporting these fellas via steam.

 

[MilkyJoe]

Without knowing the exact amount of content that's actually in the game, I can't really say this.

Not until the game is out, no.

Just the amount of effort that looks to haves gone into it. A new blu ray here is about £15 , that's about $20, got to be more than 2 hours of content coming.

 

[Mexen]

I saw cigarettes in the game. I'm trying to quit smoking. I wonder what those cig characters address. That's why I am interested in the game.

 

[Orca]

Good lord, it looks like 'platform questioning' is the stand-in for 'port begging'

 

[MilkyJoe]

there's been a fair bit of it, despite also being on Steam, the biggest platform by far.

 

[Christocolus]

Good lord, it looks like 'platform questioning' is the stand-in for 'port begging'

Lmao.

 

[nkarafo]

A GoG version as well?

I would like to grab this one but i had a bad experience with Yooka-Laylee, still waiting for the stupid patch to get released (already released on Steam a week ago).

 

[Mifec]

Just the amount of effort that looks to haves gone into it. A new blu ray here is about £15 , that's about $20, got to be more than 2 hours of content coming.

That really doesn't concern me as a consumer. They'll get my praise and recommendations after I actually play the game.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

So what's MS' involvement with this game exactly? It's not really clear but the devs specifically say only this cuphead game is exclusive. Maybe there will be a complete edition or sequel on other platforms. What could MS have offered to make up for the lost sales and mindshare from not releasing on all platforms. It seems strange to limit your potential sales so drastically if you're re-mortgaging your houses and everything.

Partial funding?

And also, complete edition? It's taken this amount of time to get the actual game out and you think there will be DLC? Yes, they mean if a sequel happens it could come to other platforms.

http://studiomdhr.com/cuphead-coming-in-2016-exclusively-to-xbox-one-and-pc/

 

[LukasTaves]

If you think quirky indie titles on Xbox One will suddenly do great because of that, keep believing.

It won't suddenly do great because of that, it will do great because indie games have been doing great on xbone for a while.

Last year alone more than 1 billion of the 9 billions Xbox generated came from indie games, it's also blatantly clear by the sheer amount of indie games releasing and being announced as of late.

 

[LordBaztion]

I'm kinda sad for the developers to have to read half of this thread.
Anyway, I'm going to buy it.

 

[Stoze]

Not a gut feeling. You named one example. One example doesnt make for a convincing argument, especially when we've had multiple devs say the same thing I'm saying.

No judgement on the game itself, but just the fact its not a dudebro type game means it has bomba written all over it. Good for MS for trying to break that perception though.

That's almost exactly what I just said in my edit you quoted, the only reason I listed one is because you only listed one. Throwing out an example like that is not enough to conclude anything and can be easily countered, which is my point.

Talking about convincing arguments, "just the fact its not a dudebro type game means it has bomba written all over it" is not one, once again. You realize indie games don't have to sell a few million in order to not be considered bombing, right? And almost none of them are dudebro games.

 

[dickroach]

I'm kinda sad for the developers to have to read half of this thread.
Anyway, I'm going to buy it.

you've gotta imagine any of the negative shit in this thread is stuff they've thought about at one time or another in the past few years.

but yeah, day one.

 

[gamz]

It won't suddenly do great because of that, it will do great because indie games have been doing great on xbone for a while.

Last year alone more than 1 billion of the 9 billions Xbox generated came from indie games, it's also blatantly clear by the sheer amount of indie games releasing and being announced as of late.

Right. Where the hell did Indies don't do good on Xbox pop up from? So weird.

 

[Trup1aya]

Just talking about this conversation as a whole, it isn't about playstation fanboyism. Many other indie devs (including myself) have brought in concern that there is a demographic mismatch between this game and the Xbox One consumer base that creates a ceiling for what we might expect it'll sell on the platform as opposed to how it would sell on PS4.

This conversation was brought up as a response to how much the devs financially risked developing the game, which is what this thread is about. It's not pointless, and it's not about platform fanboyism. It's entirely relevant, in fact, much of the conversation wasn't initially about how it'd sell better on PS4, but rather how the userbase demographic doesn't match up as well on Xbox One. When that conversation expanded, developers like me came in to share stories that these types of games do exponentially better on PlayStation platforms (this generation).

None of this is fanboysim, none of it is irrelevant, it's all just an expanding conversation that trails back and remains on point to what this thread is about. And it's also all based on educated speculation, not only from fans but actual developers who have a deep understanding of this space.

What are these demographic differences between Sony's ecosystem and MS' ecosystem?

Also, if there truly are demographic differences that would make this game more appealing to PS4 owners, wouldn't getting this type of game on Xbox work to shift those demographics- or atleast make Xbox more attractive to the type of person who likes this type of game.

I don't know if I buy the idea that Xbox users are less inclined to be drawn to this game, based on how similar games have faired on Xbox in the past. If the game were to perform better on PS4, I imagine it would be because there are more PS4 owners, not because PS4 owners are more likely drawn to this type of game.

 

[Yearsoflurking]

Any one indie game sales between platforms? I'm seeing some serious accusations on sales and would like to know. Thanks.

 

[Seik]

I'll be there to support them day 1.

Cuphead got my attention the very first second I saw it during a very short moment in an Xbox Indies reel years ago.

 

[Dusk Golem]

I'm there day 1 as well.

I don't know what I'll think of the game part of the game until I play it really, but I'm sold on the gorgeous animation alone. It being a good/great game too would be a huge bonus, though.

 

[Head.spawn]

Good lord, it looks like 'platform questioning' is the stand-in for 'port begging'

It's all about how you phrase it, it's subtle.

 

[Radical Edward]

The dev gets to keep the IP, funds and marketing (E3 press conference presence, etc.) probably.

Insomniac also went with MS for SO because they were the only one who allowed them to keep the IP, sadly it didn't exactly pay out well.

Does Sony typically try to own the IP? I remember insomniac saying that was the case with SO but I wonder if they try it with most new IPs.

 

[Nesses]

Didn't realize it was already on the Windows Store to ready pre-order...and a play anywhere title...Pre-ordered.

 

[Wereroku]

Does Sony typically try to own the IP? I remember insomniac saying that was the case with SO but I wonder if they try it with most new IPs.

Yeah Sony doesn't invest first party money into a game unless they get IP ownership anymore. I guess they don't want to end up with a crash situation. MS seems to be stepping away from it as well.

 

[Mr. E. Yis]

I really want a physical version of this game on Xbox. Is there one planned? If not, I guess I will still buy it sometime. But retail would be preordered day 1, or even a collector edition would be awesome.

 

[Freeman76]

The decision to not put this on PS4 is baffling. Do these guys not like money? Learn from the Tomb Raider situation, that did not work out well and its already an established franchise. Seems like they shot themselves in the foot here.

PS: No fanboyism I own both consoles so I can play it either way.

 

[Christocolus]

The decision to not put this on PS4 is baffling. Do these guys not like money? Learn from the Tomb Raider situation, that did not work out well and its already an established franchise. Seems like they shot themselves in the foot here.

PS: No fanboyism I own both consoles so I can play it either way.

I don't get it..why is it such a big deal? Aren't there Indies and AAA titles exclusive to PC, PS4 and even Switch? Why is it such a big deal in this case? The devs and MS obviously have some sort of agreement on this. Did the Ori devs shoot themselves in the foot too for excluding the PS4? The game is console exclusive to Xbox One..if anyone wants to play it on console then they need to get it on the X1 if you have a PC then get it on Steam or the Windows store. simple

 

[Novocaine]

The decision to not put this on PS4 is baffling. Do these guys not like money? Learn from the Tomb Raider situation, that did not work out well and its already an established franchise. Seems like they shot themselves in the foot here.

PS: No fanboyism I own both consoles so I can play it either way.

Nintendo are just leaving money on the table not putting Mario on the PS4.

 

[Jeff Freecss]

Some people really annoy me.

Microsoft, "exclusive to Xbox One and Windows 10"

Some people, "Xbox One has no exclusives! Xbox is DEAD. DEAD as FUCK HAHAHAHA"

Microsoft, "Coming to Xbox One and Windows 10"

Some people, "Why is Micro$oft trying to mislead people that the game is not coming to PS4? EVIL XBOX. XBOX must die. They do NOTHING GOOD to Gaming. DIE XBOX!"

Microsoft, "lifte time exclusive to Xbox One and Windows 10"

Some people, "WHY THE FUCK DEV DON'T MONEY! AUDIENCE MISMATCH! Xbox owners don't derserve a game!!!!!!!"


These noises to me are just "The makers of the plastics I don't know and it's buyers should all die in peril!"

And many these are people with Member status of Neogaf. And Neogaf keep bragging about being selective. It's so tired and toxic for an non PS4 owner that I don't even care if this comment will get be banned or not.

 

[dickroach]

Some people really annoy me.

Microsoft, "exclusive to Xbox One and Windows 10"

Some people, "Xbox One has no exclusives! Xbox is DEAD. DEAD as FUCK HAHAHAHA"

Microsoft, "Coming to Xbox One and Windows 10"

Some people, "Why is Micro$oft trying to mislead people that the game is not coming to PS4? EVIL XBOX. XBOX must die. They do NOTHING GOOD to Gaming. DIE XBOX!"

Microsoft, "lifte time exclusive to Xbox One and Windows 10"

Some people, "WHY THE FUCK DEV DON'T MONEY! AUDIENCE MISMATCH! Xbox owners don't derserve a game!!!!!!!"


These noises to me are just "The makers of the plastics I don't know and it's buyers should all die in peril!"

And many these are people with Member status of Neogaf. And Neogaf keep bragging about being selective. It's so tired and toxic for an non PS4 owner that I don't even care if this comment will get be banned or not.

this thread's not about Xbox, it's about the developer. people seem to think it would be in the best interest for the developer if they wouldn't have signed an exclusivity agreement. indie devs generally try to get their game out to as many people as they can

 

[Tender Joe]

Some people really annoy me.

Microsoft, "exclusive to Xbox One and Windows 10"

Some people, "Xbox One has no exclusives! Xbox is DEAD. DEAD as FUCK HAHAHAHA"

Microsoft, "Coming to Xbox One and Windows 10"

Some people, "Why is Micro$oft trying to mislead people that the game is not coming to PS4? EVIL XBOX. XBOX must die. They do NOTHING GOOD to Gaming. DIE XBOX!"

Microsoft, "lifte time exclusive to Xbox One and Windows 10"

Some people, "WHY THE FUCK DEV DON'T MONEY! AUDIENCE MISMATCH! Xbox owners don't derserve a game!!!!!!!"


These noises to me are just "The makers of the plastics I don't know and it's buyers should all die in peril!"

And many these are people with Member status of Neogaf. And Neogaf keep bragging about being selective. It's so tired and toxic for an non PS4 owner that I don't even care if this comment will get be banned or not.

This has nothing to do with this site as a whole. Console tribalism exists everywhere gaming related on the internet and it's just as idiotic here as anywhere else. This has been the been the case for decades now.

Anyway, any developers of this game that read this post should know that the non-knuckle dragging gamers that frequent boards like this appreciate the breath of fresh air this game exudes in spades.

I've shown both my 4 year old son and 64 year old father a game play video and they both had the same reaction: "Wow"

Will definitely pick this up on PC as I don't own an Xbox. I believe your sacrifice has been worth it.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Damn, really wanted to cop but don't have XBOXOX or a PC.

Will at least cop on work PC I guess

 

[Jeff Freecss]

this thread's not about Xbox, it's about the developer. people seem to think it would be in the best interest for the developer if they wouldn't have signed an exclusivity agreement. indie devs generally try to get their game out to as many people as they can

That may be true. However, if a platform holder financially supported a dev in exchange for exclusivity and the dev accepted, no one should criticize the developer. It's absurd to me that someone think a developer is dumb just because they don't release games on their favorite box.

 

[BleedOrange]

this thread's not about Xbox, it's about the developer. people seem to think it would be in the best interest for the developer if they wouldn't have signed an exclusivity agreement. indie devs generally try to get their game out to as many people as they can

It's in no dev's best interest to be platform exclusive, but that doesn't stop platforms from having exclusives.

What you're saying basically amounts to platform begging, and unless I missed something it's against the rules on this forum.