• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Weekend Confirmed Episode Whimsy | Let's All Love Loving Things

Brashnir

Member
You raise fair points, ones i'd love to discuss further, when i'm not about to go to bed. I may check back in tomorrow.

I wasn't on the E3 section. I personally still think E3 is really special, but I also know what it's like to sort of be jaded by it after now having been to 13 of them, especially if you're on the inside where you get to see most of the games prior to the show. Also more discussion for later.

And I'm not saying it just has to blow you away presentation wise / spectacle. Certainly Halo 4 and AC3 blew me away from a graphics / spectacle / story perspective. I think you pointing out gameplay is the exact reason why some of those massively marketed games this year sort of fell just short of the expectations, because they perhaps didn't surprise or delight us the way Dishonored or Fez or Journey or Walking Dead did.

That said, any time you discuss expectations vs. how it turned out / surprise vs. disappointment, etc... you inevitably MUST discuss hype, as that's where the expectations come from. If there's no hype (or expectation), you can't be disappointed.

anyways, bed for real, I'll try to write more tomorrow.

appreciate you listening and the thoughts though


Fair points, and I'm headed off to bed as well. One closing thought:

Perhaps those games you label as "surprises" would have been more influential in your thought process had they been hyped more. I find that those subtle surprise games tend to hold up better years down the line than the big hyped monoliths -- I think there's something to that. Be wary of hype.
 
So for those who listened to the episode, does Andrea touch on anything about her working at Machinima and the whole Need for Speed thing that was brought up the last time she was on? Or are we all supposed to forget that now that a few episodes have passed? Any reflection or discussion from her to help clarify the problems some listeners had with her after that was all brought up?
 
Last segment went off the rails, I had to stop listening before the end.

And I think he's right---the games given the effort, push and energy in an attempt to be things to which people aspired to afterwards all fell far short of that mark. The story of this year is scrappy games which people didn't expect a lot out of that became pleasant surprises.
 

Brashnir

Member
So for those who listened to the episode, does Andrea touch on anything about her working at Machinima and the whole Need for Speed thing that was brought up the last time she was on? Or are we all supposed to forget that now that a few episodes have past? Any reflection or discussion from her to help clarify the problems some listeners had with her after that minor fiasco?

Nothing was mentioned along those lines. Andrea was only present for about a third of the show.
 

eznark

Banned
James you like Near? Can you explain it? I'm baffled by the point. Also it thinks I'm still in Boston when I am in Indianapolis.
 

eznark

Banned
i think i like the idea of it more than the full execution, if that makes sense

Yeah I think the idea is cool that's why I was hoping you could explain it! The interface is confusing as hell too.

It's probably better that it thinks I am in Boston, I don think I'd ever come across other vitas otherwise.
 

Brashnir

Member
And I think he's right---the games given the effort, push and energy in an attempt to be things to which people aspired to afterwards all fell far short of that mark. The story of this year is scrappy games which people didn't expect a lot out of that became pleasant surprises.


I think this will increasingly become the natural order of the industry. Those huge, hyped, mega-budget games simply can't afford to be anything other than safe, sterile efforts buoyed by spectacle rather than innovation. At this late point in the generation on 6-7 year old consoles, there's not much left in them from the standpoint of creating spectacle.

An increase in power from the next Xbox and Playstation consoles will give these types of games a boost, but it sounds like the next generation will be less of a hardware leap than any before it. With game budgets going the way they are, who even knows how viable going down this road will remain even with new hardware beyond this generation?

The further down this road the industry goes, the more you'll see the innovation and ideas coming from these scrappy underdogs. They'll be the ones driving the industry forward in every sense except raw spectacle, much like the movie industry.
 
Dohohoh at that Stanky dick burn. Good to have Spicer on, though.

I think most of the credit 343 gets is because they did it, but they didn't do anything more (presumably because it was too risky to deviate). The discussion on expectations was really interesting, some really good points. I think the thing that is most telling can be seen on GAF. Just look at how many people are listing 5 or less games instead of the available 10.

lmao at the discussion about whether your mother would watch you play the game as a measure of quality. Great Christmas episode, thanks.
 
I've become a bit frustrated with this show's tendency to veer towards analyzing macro trends and generalizing the state of the enthusiast community to do so.

For example, the idea that there's a consensus on the internet that this was a disappointing year led to a chaotic conversation where the games used to refute that idea were only looked at on a surface level. Taking "the internet" as a monolithic entity that has a single opinion is a bad premise.

I think that if the opinions of the intelligent, articulate people that populate this show were used as a starting point more consistently, the discussions would be more coherent and interesting. In general, I think that understanding games individually and in depth, building a macro view from the ground up rather than the top down, leads to a clearer view of general trends.

I apologize if this sounds patronizing; I'm a fan of the show and I'm looking forward to the next episode, especially because GOTY discussion will probably lead to more in depth talk about the games themselves.
 

mujun

Member
I've become a bit frustrated with this show's tendency to veer towards analyzing macro trends and generalizing the state of the enthusiast community to do so.

For example, the idea that there's a consensus on the internet that this was a disappointing year led to a chaotic conversation where the games used to refute that idea were only looked at on a surface level. Taking "the internet" as a monolithic entity that has a single opinion is a bad premise.

I think that if the opinions of the intelligent, articulate people that populate this show were used as a starting point more consistently, the discussions would be more coherent and interesting. In general, I think that understanding games individually and in depth, building a macro view from the ground up rather than the top down, leads to a clearer view of general trends.

I apologize if this sounds patronizing; I'm a fan of the show and I'm looking forward to the next episode, especially because GOTY discussion will probably lead to more in depth talk about the games themselves.

How would understanding individual games in depth lead to a greater understanding of general trends, for example whether people think 2012 was a disappointing year or not?

Wouldn't the best way to gauge the above example be to take a cross section of gamers large enough to get a good picture and find out what the dominant opinion was?

They might be prone to listen too much to a vocal minority which then skews their perspective but I don't see how what you suggest would help them understand trends better.
 

meta4

Junior Member
I thought James was entirely off the mark with his argument. Especially with his argument that Uncharted 2 was any kind of example of a counterpoint to what we saw this year.

I mean, what was Uncharted 2, exactly? It was all the same exact gameplay issues as Uncharted 1 (long, tedious waves of enemies combat, broken up by unengaging auto-platforming interludes and mediocre puzzles) lacquered up with a lot more explosions, spectacle, scripting and OMG GRAFICKS! In addition to not fixing any of the problems with UC1, it even introduced bad stealth to the mix to muddle things further.

His argument of what he wants is basically a summation of everything that's wrong with this fucking industry, not some sort of brass ring we should be reaching for.

One of the greatest perfectly paced sp campaigns of all time and prob the best TPS campaign of this generation. Hope that answers your question.
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Hearing Mass Effect choice talk back to back with Walking Dead choice talk made me realize how much I actually enjoyed Mass Effects choice system over Walking Dead's. If you're going to talk about choices not having an effect on the story, Walking Dead is a thousand times worse. Maybe in Mass Effect there's just a one line saying "and because you put saving the world ahead of your morals you have let this vicious criminal run free", but at least to me I can still imagine the implications to the overall universe. I don't have to see every last crime that criminal ended up doing to know that the world is a worse place because of what I did, but it is a decision my shepard thought was best.

In walking dead no matter what you choose, narratively everything is going to go back to the status quo with no room for interpretation.

I'll admit for people reloading thier games to get the best outcome, or choosing only paragon or renagade to max out that bar, Mass Effect's system might be worse, but I personally just didn't do that. I pretty much always had equal amounts of paragon and renegade points, and yeah sometimes that meant i had greyed out options for the fix everything dialog choices, but that just meant I had to make more of those hard choices where only one side is happy, because I didn't have the get out of jail free option of passing a paragon point check to make things all better.

Just because you have the option to play it in a way that makes it not fun, doesn't mean you have to play it that way. Are we going to start calling the twists in the 6th Sense or Fight Club bad because you can totally ruin the whole thing if you look up the spoilers for it on line?
 

AkuMifune

Banned
I can see how it can be defined a disappointing year in the sense that every AAA game was a disappointment in some sense.

Luckily the AA games stepped up and made everything alright.

But having Andrea again with no explanation and not even a defense of her or something.... classless, gutless and dumb. If you have any respect for the integrity of your own goddammit show at least explain that one.

I guess you thought the witch hunt blew over. Witchhunt Confirmed.
 

MisterNoisy

Member
Dammit. I'd like to be able to listen to this latest episode, but if Rene is on, it's a nonstarter. I can only handle so much 'omigod video games are like, cool and stuff' idiocy before I want to unsubscribe, bit it's fighting with my appreciation for Cannata and Garnett.

When does Andrea check out?
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
"Can we just agree those people are idiots?"

She pretty much just called two people in that room idiots.
 

Massa

Member
Dammit. I'd like to be able to listen to this latest episode, but if Rene is on, it's a nonstarter. I can only handle so much 'omigod video games are like, cool and stuff' idiocy before I want to unsubscribe, bit it's fighting with my appreciation for Cannata and Garnett.

When does Andrea check out?

You can listen to the first two segments, and they're pretty great. She's on the third and fourth segments, and the last one is probably the worst segment of Weekend Confirmed yet.
 
So for those who listened to the episode, does Andrea touch on anything about her working at Machinima and the whole Need for Speed thing that was brought up the last time she was on? Or are we all supposed to forget that now that a few episodes have passed? Any reflection or discussion from her to help clarify the problems some listeners had with her after that was all brought up?

No..the shill doesn't reveal the fact that she's a shill.

It would be nice if Garnett had the courage to tell her to find another podcast.
 

MisterNoisy

Member
You can listen to the first two segments, and they're pretty great. She's on the third and fourth segments, and the last one is probably the worst segment of Weekend Confirmed yet.

Cool. Listening now. Also, I dunno if Cannata reads this, but I liked him on GWJ. He should show up there more often.
 

mik

mik is unbeatable
The existential angst of the first segment really baffles me and, if it is indeed genuine, also kinda saddens me. I don't really get the "gamer guilt" thing in any case (unless you're completely fucking up your work/home/family life with it), but it's especially bizarre to hear from people for whom video games are their livelihood.

What good does it do to beat yourself up over playing a game because you "could be at the gym?" Because once you get there, why be at the gym when you could be reading a book? Why read a book when you could go back to school? Why go back to school when you could be volunteering at a soup kitchen...
 
The existential angst of the first segment really baffles me and, if it is indeed genuine, also kinda saddens me. I don't really get the "gamer guilt" thing in any case (unless you're completely fucking up your work/home/family life with it), but it's especially bizarre to hear from people for whom video games are their livelihood.

What good does it do to beat yourself up over playing a game because you "could be at the gym?" Because once you get there, why be at the gym when you could be reading a book? Why read a book when you could go back to school? Why go back to school when you could be volunteering at a soup kitchen...


Yeah...I had no idea what was driving that conversation.

When Weekend Confirmed bottoms out...it bottoms out so hard.

Andrea Rene talking about how Walking Dead doesn't deserve Game of the Year...painful.

Even more painful though was her complaining about the time limit with the decisions. She really has no clue.
 

MisterNoisy

Member
Andrea Rene talking about how Walking Dead doesn't deserve Game of the Year...painful.

Even more painful though was her complaining about the time limit with the decisions. She really has no clue.

Andrea Rene talking about anything is fucking painful. She may well be a nice person, but I've never listened to anyone more clueless. How exactly did she get a job in the industry? I mean fuck - I know a dozen people that can be inarticulate and retarded about video games all day long and they don't get paid to do it.
 
Andrea Rene talking about anything is fucking painful. She may well be a nice person, but I've never listened to anyone more clueless. How exactly did she get a job in the industry? I mean fuck - I know a dozen people that can be inarticulate and retarded about video games all day long and they don't get paid to do it.

She's pretty.

That's how she got her job of being a shill for video game publishers.

I've been on a caravan of love with Weekend Confirmed for the last month or so but her inclusion in this one brings back all the irritation.

I just turned it off now and deleted it. Maybe Garnett will eventually figure it out that she's has zero business discussing video games.
 

Sissel

Member
God lol, I wanted to turn the podcast off when Andreas started talking about how everyone has their own tastes and what might be special to some people might not be special to others. No shit. And when Halo 4 was being defended as being a "fresh" game because it had presentation like never seen before in the series? Give me a freaking break. That game does nothing original, and fighting the Prometheans is a drag. And that was the only new thing in the game.

I can't believe the other guys on the podcast didn't have James's back. This WAS a disappointing year for AAA games.

- SSX (came in went, wasn't that fun)
- Resident Evil 6 (horrendous)
- Halo 4 (more of the same, no memorable campaign moments, MP was a flop for a lot of people)
- Mass Effect 3 (poor presentation, barely any changes to core gameplay, the ending)
- AC3 (Big time disappointment)
- Hitman (wasn't that great)

Only AAA game that delivered in my books was FC3.
 
Pretty good episode this week but really looking forward to next weeks episode.

Hopefully James and the person from ND sorta give hints at what next gen will bring.
 

Massa

Member
What was the deal with Andrea? I guess I checked out when that fiasco happened so I'm a bit out of the loop.

The site she works for accepts money from publishers to cover specific games, and when Andrea appears on Weekend Confirmed people get the feeling she's just shilling for games rather than giving an honest, well thought out critical opinion.
 
The site she works for accepts money from publishers to cover specific games, and when Andrea appears on Weekend Confirmed people get the feeling she's just shilling for games rather than giving an honest, well thought out critical opinion.

I didn't listen to this week's episode because she's on, but from what people are saying, I'm kind of surprised Garnett says nothing about it. Not even a 'well, it turns out it was a misunderstanding' or SOMETHING -- instead of just ignoring it. If she's not doing what some people suspect...why not just come out and CLARIFY for the listeners? Isn't that the first concern with a podcast?

Again, one of the reasons this podcast has such massive inconsistencies is because it's "Garnett and Friends" as opposed to the best people available who can give the best discussion, as it was in the 1up days. It's his damn show, so he can do what he wants, but it just seems there was a better way to handle this.
 

angelfly

Member
The arguing at the end was a pain to listen to. It was it especially frustrating since I understood the point Andrew and James made as soon as they made it yet Jeff and Andrea just went on and on as if expectations were universal and not subjective. You can think something is great and still be disappointed by it. I usually don't have a problem with Andrea but she was just bad in this episode. Needs more Nikole!
 
I for one do not think Walking dead should be GOTY material. It should be nominated for the best story, but that's it: There's nothing Ground breaking mechanics-wise in that game.

If Wirehead(FMV game) for Sega CD had an amazing Story, would it receive the same GOTY nods? No.

I understand people are nominating it because they had a great time experiencing the story and the dilemmas it offers, but objectively speaking, as a game, it doesn't offer you more than say Halo 4 or Journey. We're talking about videogames here folks.

By the way, Jason Paul (guy from Naughty Dog) was great. Agree with him or not, he was brutally honest. Hope he's on more often.

He did say he was a corporate chill(especially with his Sony pimping) :p
 

Yopis

Member
Hearing Mass Effect choice talk back to back with Walking Dead choice talk made me realize how much I actually enjoyed Mass Effects choice system over Walking Dead's. If you're going to talk about choices not having an effect on the story, Walking Dead is a thousand times worse. Maybe in Mass Effect there's just a one line saying "and because you put saving the world ahead of your morals you have let this vicious criminal run free", but at least to me I can still imagine the implications to the overall universe. I don't have to see every last crime that criminal ended up doing to know that the world is a worse place because of what I did, but it is a decision my shepard thought was best.

In walking dead no matter what you choose, narratively everything is going to go back to the status quo with no room for interpretation.

I'll admit for people reloading thier games to get the best outcome, or choosing only paragon or renagade to max out that bar, Mass Effect's system might be worse, but I personally just didn't do that. I pretty much always had equal amounts of paragon and renegade points, and yeah sometimes that meant i had greyed out options for the fix everything dialog choices, but that just meant I had to make more of those hard choices where only one side is happy, because I didn't have the get out of jail free option of passing a paragon point check to make things all better.

Just because you have the option to play it in a way that makes it not fun, doesn't mean you have to play it that way. Are we going to start calling the twists in the 6th Sense or Fight Club bad because you can totally ruin the whole thing if you look up the spoilers for it on line?

Think Witcher 2 did a better job with choice than ME2/3 or TWD. No choice was really right or wrong. Game was so good. Thought Alpha protocol did a good job also because of timed choices.
 

Grisby

Member
Man, the end of this was terrible. There were some alright bits here and there but damn if I wasn't tired of hearing Uncharted 2 in a 2012 discussion.

Glad Andrea threw in Dragons Dogma at the end. Gravity Rush was criminally overlooked in the vita section.
 
The existential angst of the first segment really baffles me and, if it is indeed genuine, also kinda saddens me. I don't really get the "gamer guilt" thing in any case (unless you're completely fucking up your work/home/family life with it), but it's especially bizarre to hear from people for whom video games are their livelihood.

What good does it do to beat yourself up over playing a game because you "could be at the gym?" Because once you get there, why be at the gym when you could be reading a book? Why read a book when you could go back to school? Why go back to school when you could be volunteering at a soup kitchen...
Yeah that was a weird conversation.
 

dLMN8R

Member
It's so weird hearing someone try to claim that a year was disappointing because the insanely advertised games didn't meet expectations even though a bunch of other games did.

Is this reality? How have we reached a point where games personalities have so emotionality tied themselves to marketing? Who the fuck gives a shit about marketing? Jesus Christ.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
It's so weird hearing someone try to claim that a year was disappointing because the insanely advertised games didn't meet expectations even though a bunch of other games did.

Is this reality? How have we reached a point where games personalities have so emotionality tied themselves to marketing? Who the fuck gives a shit about marketing? Jesus Christ.
I stopped listening because that shouting and the deliberate misinterpreting was just annoying.

But based on what I've listened to nobody of the cast said the year was disappointing. jstevenson tried to explain why some people on "the internet" feel that way.

What game was the leap that other games in previous years was? There wasn't one. Even the best argument in the form of Guild Wars 2 got criticized for being way more regular MMORPG than people anticipated. WoW got that same treatment in the year it launched, it's just the execution that made it the massive game it was.

Halo 4 met expectations, it didn't blow people's mind the way GTA4. Modern Warfare, Uncharted 2, Mass Effect 2 & Red Dead Redemption did.

That these games did something significantly new in this very iterative medium is just displayed by the GOTY spread of those year. This year is much more spread out, as opposed to the concentrated spread of years past. You could make an argument that the above games don't deserve the acclaim they got, but that they got them the year they came out is undisputed. Also the influence that Modern Warfare had on the FPS-genre and Uncharted 2 had on at least the last 2 E3's is undeniable.
 
Normally, I don't like to criticise podcasts for their discussions, but man, Andrea really issomething.
Throughout the year, it became clearer tht she stands for the type of gamer that's really not good for the industry. She wants dumbed down games with mechanics made for idiots and thinks that the relationship between a bio-engineered space marine and a computer AI with big tits is the pinnacle of story telling....

It's so hard to listen to her....
 
T

thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
I stopped listening because that shouting and the deliberate misinterpreting was just annoying.

But based on what I've listened to nobody of the cast said the year was disappointing. jstevenson tried to explain why some people on "the internet" feel that way.

What game was the leap that other games in previous years was? There wasn't one. Even the best argument in the form of Guild Wars 2 got criticized for being way more regular MMORPG than people anticipated. WoW got that same treatment in the year it launched, it's just the execution that made it the massive game it was.

It was really really annoying listening to people say that if you think 2012 is a bad year, you must think every game released in 2012 is bad, which is just ridiculous. There will never ever be a bad year with those types of standards. As a member of "the internet", the only reason I think this year disappointed compared to years past is that I think the top 3 games this year don't really live up to the top 3 games of years past.

But I guess it all depends on how you feel about Journey, Xcom, and Walking Dead. I've beaten all 3 and thought they were ok, but none of them grabbed me even as much as Portal 2, Mortal Kombat, Saints Row the Third, or Sonic Generations. Probably all depends on how much you want gaming to transform into some sort of "interactive art form".

Journey and Walking Dead both have very little more going for them now than if they were 100% non interactive, and when it comes to talking about best in the industry that doesn't really cut it for some people on a very core level. I'd personally rather take a platformer with amazing controls and level design, or a puzzler which forces you to think in a way you would never otherwise think.
 

Goldmund

Member
I didn't listen to this week's episode because she's on, but from what people are saying, I'm kind of surprised Garnett says nothing about it. Not even a 'well, it turns out it was a misunderstanding' or SOMETHING -- instead of just ignoring it. If she's not doing what some people suspect...why not just come out and CLARIFY for the listeners? Isn't that the first concern with a podcast?

Again, one of the reasons this podcast has such massive inconsistencies is because it's "Garnett and Friends" as opposed to the best people available who can give the best discussion, as it was in the 1up days. It's his damn show, so he can do what he wants, but it just seems there was a better way to handle this.
He did address the issue some episodes ago.

Anyway, I think I'll stop listening (not because of Andrea Renee). The show has gotten stale and predictable.
 
He did address the issue some episodes ago.

Anyway, I think I'll stop listening (not because of Andrea Renee). The show has gotten stale and predictable.

If we're thinking of the same episode, I wouldn't really call that him addressing it. Didn't he basically just say he wanted to forget it? And specifically when Andrea is on again for the first time, now would be a good time just to have her say a few words to clear the air. Or not. Fuck it, let that cloud hang over the show every time she's on.
 

benny_a

extra source of jiggaflops
It was really really annoying listening to people say that if you think 2012 is a bad year, you must think every game released in 2012 is bad, which is just ridiculous. There will never ever be a bad year with those types of standards. As a member of "the internet", the only reason I think this year disappointed compared to years past is that I think the top 3 games this year don't really live up to the top 3 games of years past.
And I would say that's basically what it boils down to.

I think in the past we've at least had one of the top games propel the genre it was in significantly forward.

The Walking Dead and Journey which are contender for most games of the year award this year are also great, but Journey is not much of a genre game and The Walking Dead to me seems like a lower budget (less choice) Heavy Rain with better writing and voice acting, so nothing absolutely new or significantly improved.

Edit: To clarify when I say Journey is not a genre-game. It's hard to compare it in the pantheon of video games because what do you compare it to? Exploration based 2D platformers like Knytt? Jason Rohrer's Passage?
 

PowderedToast

Junior Member
garnett is the only person the podcast with an interesting perspective. i've always enjoyed his enthusiasm and his ability to not be swayed by popular trend

i'm thankful he brought up xiii-2 but as predicted the response from the others was ball-achingly terrible, a criticism of xiii's tutorial length and a joke about dress spheres, wow is this real life

the cast is just bad. i know everyone is friends but the discussion is not enjoyable, educated or interesting. one guy can't save a roundtable, garnett should be able to bring up a final fantasy game and not have people be clueless about it

remember when people on podcasts played japanese games and didn't spit out tired opinion memes? like fuck me
 

frequency

Member
I'm not finished the episode yet but I just wanted to say:

Thanks for bringing up FFXIII-2 Garnett. And pushing through and continuing to discuss it even with everyone dismissing it.

I absolutely love the game. It's just nice to hear someone say something positive about it.

That's one of the things I enjoy so much about you. You actually have a unique opinion and seem completely open to many different things in gaming.

The discussions have been fun to listen to though. I have been vocally critical of Andrea in the past, but I liked her here. She felt more genuine this episode.

Thanks for a great year of podcasts everyone. I look forward to Weekend Confirmed in 2013.
 

eznark

Banned
The guy who talks about not liking the single interesting aspect of The Walking Dead (stressful decision making) is about the worst guest who has graced this show. Is that the same guy who talked about his kill to death ratio in Call of Duty?
 
Top Bottom