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[stuminus3]

It's really not THAT hard to pick up. I remember the first time I tried keyboard + mouse controls with Quake it hurt my head, but it took no more than a couple of hours to get a good grip on it and then it was so natural I didn't need to think about it. My girlfriend had never played an FPS before I introduced her to Bioshock in 2010. In a few hours she got the hang of it. It was the many buttons and functions that took longer to grasp than the movement itself.

That's a pretty big ask. Most people who aren't us will lose interest in seconds, not hours.

 

[goonergaz]

That's a pretty big ask. Most people who aren't us will lose interest in seconds, not hours.

I remember at the PS2 launch with Timesplitters - took about half an hour to just get used to the controls, up to then I was cursing myself...but once it clicked I was in heaven!

 

[diffusionx]

Was Timesplitters not popular then? Even so to me it was the first game that used it as a default control, from that moment all future FPSs had to use that control method - ergo IMHO Timesplitters is the answer.

TimeSplitters was a launch game and not one of the popular ones. I agree with your second sentence, which is why I said it legitimized it.

 

[RdN]

Some games tried it, but it was Halo/Bungie who made it work and popularized it.

 

[Mael]

By that point arcades were focusing more on a select core then broad audience, but even putting that aside it was two sticks, for buttons with instruction on exactly what each input does sitting right next to you at all times. Well the screen and controls are all right next to each other so glancing at the controls quickly is far easier.

Masayuki Uemura, the Famicom designer , even had the problem of the increased distance of hand from screen in mind as they tried to find a good controller for the system. And this was also after Hiroshi Yamauchi turned down the idea of making a full computer with a keyboard because the more complex control set up of a keyboard could be off putting to the average person.

Good point, although the draw from Virtual On was big mech fights so you had to make do with what you had.
The idea was to make the player feel like he was controlling a Gundam or something.
Heck we had that awful VR game I can't recall the name.
It's true that Arcade games couldn't afford being overly complex like PC games because they were after your quarters and they weren't getting any if you spent hours trying to make sense of the controls.
I'd say Virtual On succeeded, I mean it got sequels and adaptations after all.

 

[Krappadizzle]

What was unexpected about Halo? It was a game 'ripped' from the PC community who were gagging for it, it was always going to sell well - hell the original Xbox has often called a Halo player.

It wasnt even what MSFT thought would sell. The game had an impressive MacWorld debut, and that was the last my friends and I heard of it until the Xbox announcement. My friends and I and most of my school didn't give a single shit about Halo until a few of us picked up Xbox's and played it via LAN.

 

[Breads]

I feel like I remember doing this with Mech sims on the PC in the mid 90s with games like Heavy Gear.

 

[jett]

Mega Man Legends 2 had pretty solid dual analog controls too.

 

[Solid Samus]

I think that you people need to dig up your copies of Goldeneye and actually play that dual analog mode before acting like it applies to the OP...

It didn't popularize dual analog FPS control. It isn't even dual analog FPS control in the conventional sense that the second analog is used exclusively for view control, iirc.

 

[BradleyLove]

GoldenEye was the first and Halo popularized it. Why are people still mentioning shit like Alien Resurrection?

Descent on PS1 came before Goldeneye (Jan '96 and Aug '97 respectively).

 

[goonergaz]

It wasnt even what MSFT thought would sell. The game had an impressive MacWorld debut, and that was the last my friends and I heard of it until the Xbox announcement. My friends and I and most of my school didn't give a single hit about Halo until a few of us picked up Xbox's and played it via LAN.

Why would MSFT buy it and make it a flagship title then!?

Maybe you and your mates (TBH I wasn't fused), but the PC community was not happy...I did a google and found this which basically says exactly how I recall it;

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id...q=pc gamers upset halo xbox exclusive&f=false

 

[Inuhanyou]

for fps? Halo. Also the first game i can recall where vehicular turning was done primarily by rotating the camera instead of manipulating the actual vehicle

 

[potatohead]

I remember ape escape doing this but I could be making that up.

Wait, was the second stick for the net controls? I don't know anymore.

2nd stick was the net.

You could cast it omni-directionally even if your player was facing a different way I think.

 

[goonergaz]

for fps? Halo. Also the first game i can recall where vehicular turning was done primarily by rotating the camera instead of manipulating the actual vehicle

lol, man that took some getting used to!

 

[scitek]

Is this a real quote?

http://www.gamespot.com/reviews/alien-resurrection-review/1900-2637344/

Yep.

Hilariously, the review even suggests that people wait for "Fox's recently announced Aliens: Colonial Marines for the PlayStation 2" instead.

 

[Inuhanyou]

lol, man that took some getting used to!

Yeah, but it actually turned out to work much better than i thought it would...

 

[dhonk]

That's only the first dual-controller map, try Galore and swap the controllers around in your hands.

Thanks, this is pretty cool! Only thing its kind of let down by is the N64s joysticks. They really weren't built for this kind of thing.

 

[TelemachusD]

It's kind of ridiculous to say Halo popularized it when it was already THE standard setup for PS2 FPS's. Timesplitters, Red Faction, Unreal Tournament, Quake 3 Revolution, and Half-Life PS2 all predate Halo and offered the same dual stick control scheme. There were millions of PS2 owners using dual stick controls prior to Halo.

 

[Jumeira]

Can't see any other game that pulled it off as well as Halo. Mostly becuase of Bungie ingenious control scheme and Xbox superior sticks. So Halo.

 

[D1AMONDDOGS]

Holy shit, that's amazing

 

[Qwark]

Any opinions on Alien Resurrection from those that have actually played it? Was it a bad game? Or just ahead of the trend?

 

[Barakov]

Jeez. The author goes on to complain about not having different controller configurations. It was probably the most sensible innovation for games in the last twenty years. I can't imagine controlling a game on consoles without a second analog stick now. Granted, this is an article from 16 years ago but playing Timesplitters, Halo and other games that used the set up, it really felt right.

 

[I Wanna Be The Guy]

Can't answer your question, but I'll never forget the first game I played which used the second anolog stick as the camera, Medal of Honor: Frontline for the PS2. I was aiming like a blind man with Parkinson's disease. I got used to it after more practice, of course. It just felt so unnatural at first.

I had the exact same experience.

WHY DIDNT THEY JUST USE THE SAME CONTROLS AS THE FIRST TWO GAMES?! THESE CONTROLS ARE CRAP!

I actually remember shouting something along those lines at the TV. This control scheme was new and scary at the time. Really funny to look back on.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Yes, yes it is

Third paragraph

That review never gets old. Especially the part about Alien Colonial Marines hahaha.

I also didn't remember the bit about using triangle for items and health. Like that's a problem. Bloodborne has bad controls confirmed!

 

[jesu]

Yes, yes it is

Third paragraph

The author says it would be better if they had copied EA's Medal of Honor control scheme.

Anyone know what the difference was?

 

[petran79]

I'm pretty sure Virtual On use 2 sticks to control, that's an arcade game from 1995 or something.
It was also very popular.

Flight simulators at that time also offered navigation with flight stick, while also allowed changing hat views via the numberpad

 

[Correctomundo]

Sort of off-topic but is Alien Resurrection actually worth getting and worth playing? I missed this one completely back in the day but the gameplay videos look quite cool.

Any opinions on Alien Resurrection from those that have actually played it? Was it a bad game? Or just ahead of the trend?

I liked it quite a bit. Here is a fairly recent LTTP. Pretty difficult, though. Be warned.

While it is playable with the dual analog, the PS Mouse really does make a world of difference.

The author says it would be better if they had copied EA's Medal of Honor control scheme.

Anyone know what the difference was?

Digital pad moved you forward, backward, and turned you. Shoulder buttons for strafing. Holding another caused the aiming reticle to pop free, allowing the digital pad to move it freely at the expense of movement, just like fine aiming does in Goldeneye and Perfect Dark.

 

[Mael]

Flight simulators at that time also offered navigation with flight stick, while also allowed changing hat views via the numberpad

True, they weren't available in a playable form outside of pc though.
Virtual On had 2 console releases (Saturn & Dreamcast).

 

[BibiMaghoo]

It was the same dev that made Star Fox/Starwing on the SNES. ish.

 

[ugh_the_boot]

I always thought it was Mario 64 with the c-stick. Pretty sure it is.

 

[Correctomundo]

I always thought it was Mario 64 with the c-stick. Pretty sure it is.

What C-stick?

 

[Mr_Antimatter]

It's kind of ridiculous to say Halo popularized it when it was already THE standard setup for PS2 FPS's. Timesplitters, Red Faction, Unreal Tournament, Quake 3 Revolution, and Half-Life PS2 all predate Halo and offered the same dual stick control scheme. There were millions of PS2 owners using dual stick controls prior to Halo.

The only reason I can think of people saying halo for is well, most of them didn't play early ps2 games, thus it was new to them. For anyone in the first year of ps2 ownership, who owned any FPS game, it was already the standard for controls.

I'm reminded of people saying halo invented offhand grenade throws, it's a sign they never played team fortress or team fortress classic.

 

[Spittyball]

I think my first game with camera control was the first Spyro.

 

[Ricker]

Halo did it on consoles with a controller obviously,maybe not the first but the ones to make it popular and have every game use this scheme after.

 

[Secret Owl]

Mario 64, despite having no second analog stick.
Basically worked like that, influencing the first games that could use a second analog stick.

Pretty much. We can all thank Lakitu's documentarian zeal.

 

[Poimandres]

That controlling games have gotten complex is rather the point. For most people spending hours trying to learn to walk in a game is not worth it. And Is there really that much of a pay off for all the added complexity? Because again, games were not always like this, is an Uncharted that much deeper then a Megaman or a NES Zelda? I mean your go to example for playing a modern game is learning to drive a car!

Never mind that when things like wii-motes and touch screens come in to try and bring down the obstacles modern gaming has erected around itself gamers lose their minds and call the death of gaming. People HATE the idea of Nintendo trying to make more inviting controllers, what they like is the Steam controller, one that adds even more inputs

Of course the average person is flocking to mobile in these conditions you want a classic style game with easy to learn controls that let you get in too playing? that's your main option. There's a reason Pong is what created the gaming industry and was a massive hit and not Computer Space, one was simple enough for a drunk guy in the bar.

I would argue that complexity isn't necessarily a bad thing, and has its place in the gaming world. Something like a flight simulator is complex by necessity. If you remove the complexity, it isn't a simulator anymore. There's nothing wrong with that if people are into it. These games aren't intended for everyone.

But, you are quite right, a lot of big console games these days are intended to be accessible and fail miserably at this task because of the complexity of the "standard" controllers. It's a tough line to walk though. How many buttons are too many buttons? A lack of input devices can get in the way if a game is designed to have more functions than you have inputs. For example, Double Dragon 2 on the NES was pretty rad but it required you to push 2 buttons at the same time to jump. There wasn't really an elegant solution to this with a 2 button controller. The best solution is obviously to have 3 buttons. Following this logic, it's easy to see how we ended up where we are... Once you add movement in a 3D space, there are real problems to tackle for movement etc

Even early controllers weren't particularly intuitive but the simplicity of game design meant it took a matter of minutes to adapt not hours. Most people playing SMB for the first time would lift the controller anytime they wanted to jump.

I think Nintendo should be commended for attempting to tackle this problem. They did a pretty good job with the Wii, and I honestly think they should have doubled down on this with improved tech for the Wii U but they backed away. I think the ideal is having purely mentally controlled games that react in real time based on your thoughts. THAT is the end game as far as I'm concerned, but once we have reliable and seamless technology to acheive that many aspect of life will be revolutionised because we are still reliant on cumbersome control methods for many many things in our lives.

 

[Inuhanyou]

It's kind of ridiculous to say Halo popularized it when it was already THE standard setup for PS2 FPS's. Timesplitters, Red Faction, Unreal Tournament, Quake 3 Revolution, and Half-Life PS2 all predate Halo and offered the same dual stick control scheme. There were millions of PS2 owners using dual stick controls prior to Halo.

Do you know what "popularized" means"?

There were plenty of FPS on console before Goldeneye after all, there were 3D platformers before Crash and Super Mario 64 too.

 

[Juice]

This thread reminds me of this other one I made http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=543762

As recently as last week Mrs Juice was really struggling to control Life is Strange with twin sticks. Her brain's just not wired for it (yet?) but it sucks so much that she just has to miss out on so many games.

 

[supernormal]

My first go with it was Ape Escape, but it really clicked when I played Halo for the first time. From that point on anything else would be unacceptable.

 

[Oneself]

It's strange to see Halo come up so often. I guess it's because aim assist was tweaked perfectly and became a standard.

I got used to dual analog controls playing Golden Eye (and later Perfect Dark) and Medal of Honor (1?) on PSone. By then, movement on one side and camera on the other was a standard on N64. PS1 games slowly ditched L1&R1 camera controls in favor of Dual Analog.
Then, it's hard to tell wich game I played that didn't support that type of control scheme.
Timesplitters definitely mastered it though IMO. That's the 1st time I played super tight 60fps aiming on consoles and it was awesome.

 

[lazygecko]

Do you know what "popularized" means"?

There were plenty of FPS on console before Goldeneye after all, there were 3D platformers before Crash and Super Mario 64 too.

Why do you bring up Goldeneye when the post in question was talking about about late 90's/2000 shooters? The point is that the dual setup was already commonplace in the genre before Halo came along.

 

[Silphonica]

Halo for me, its funny that it felt alien at the time when now its second nature

Nice pun. Halo put it mainstream but it was an Alien licensed game on the ps1 I think did it first.

edit: if i remember correctly, reviews for that game said the control scheme would never catch on.

 

[Silent Chief]

I played this. It was very hard. What made it hard wasn't the controls but the absence of auto-aiming. You'd miss a face hugger by a pixel and you'd be dead. Yeah, it was somewhat pixelated.

I watch my grandkids play and they often have that problem in game; they never figure out how to control the camera.

 

[nkarafo]

It's strange to see Halo come up so often.

myfirstfps.jpg


And i agree with everything in the rest of your post.

 

[Isurus]

Assuming we should take "popularized" literally, I'd have to go with Halo. Yes, there were other games with a similar control scheme in a similar timeframe, if not earlier. However, when it comes to popularizing it, I think it is hard to argue that it wasn't Halo. Halo brought it to the masses. End of story.

 

[Silent Chief]

Do you know what "popularized" means"?

There were plenty of FPS on console before Goldeneye after all, there were 3D platformers before Crash and Super Mario 64 too.

What happens is that games that came out on PC first used the mouse/keyboard scheme. Games that were made for console had to give more thoughts to the controls.
The Dual Shock was not required to play PS1 games, so it's not surprising that many games didn't use the second stick that well. Clearly, it's the controller, not the game that makes the difference.

"popularized" cause (something) to become generally liked.

Never played Goldeneye or Halo, so that couldn't cause me to like or dislike anything. The two controllers method looks retarded.
And I'm still not sure if I prefer to shoot with R1 or R2, but I do hate inverted controls.

There was a PS2 game that was meant to be played coop and you could simply share a Dualshock 2. That was a bit silly too.

 

[Conrad Link]

For me my first experience with it was Timepslitters on PS2.

Playing multiplayer with my brother, ugh I hated it initially because they forced those controls (I think?) and it really didn't sit well with me.

Then after a little while we got use to it and were running around like pros lol. Man Timepslitters (the whole series) was awesome as!

 

[Synth]

Yeah, after all these posts, i can agree that the right answer is Goldeneye, using 2 controllers. It plays exactly like a modern FPS and it feels like holding 2 nunchuks.

GoldenEye would be the correct answer for what started the implementation... but not what popularized it. Barely anyone actually played GoldenEye that way (which makes sense, because everyone was playing it four player, and there were only four joypads).

I'm pretty sure Virtual On use 2 sticks to control, that's an arcade game from 1995 or something.
It was also very popular.

Virtual On doesn't use the sticks for discreet movement and camera. They're both used for movement (left and right), and the camera simply reacts to the movement like most other games of the time did. It's a tank-like control system, much like Katamari.

myfirstfps.jpg

It being myfirstfps.jpg for so many people is actually what makes it a good answer to the topic. Depending one where we set the bar for "popular" Timesplitters would probably make more sense... but the genre as a whole was niche on console prior to Halo (GoldenEye did well for itself, but didn't raise the level for FPSes in general, and was played almost exclusively with a single stick).

 

[Waylon Drums]

It took me until RESIDENT EVIL FIVE to really get used to a dual-analog setup. Just couldn't get used to it for ages.

 

[KodaRuss]

I am not sure what game I played before Halo that I got used to it on. I was definitely familiar with it before I started playing Halo though. Must have been timesplitters or something. I played Halo pretty quickly after it came out though.