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[Unbounded]

That sounds like you're attributing the blame to feminism as a whole rather than what i hope you actually meant which is that it's the fault of the "extreme feminists", like the ones who talk about how much they hate men and how bad men are and stuff, which im not sure even really exist and are definitely not the majority.

They certainly aren't helping by any measure, but I am attributing the blame to the general movement.

From the simple things, (for example, the name of the movement itself containing "fem" automatically causes one to assume it's only for women due to how prefixes normally work), as well as the perceived lack of focus of men's issues as well as women's issues, it's not terribly hard to understand why your average person who isn't either actively engaged in the movement or hasn't done their research doesn't understand what the movement is for.

In my particular situation, for instance, I never knew that Feminism was for equality of the sexes until I went out of my way to look up the actual definition after an argument, and I still meet people on a regular basis who don't know that the movement is for equality, not just the betterment of women.

It's something simple, really, but the effects are pretty clear.

 

[Dead Man]

I dunno, I think we should expect them to act like 17 year olds, while hoping and pushing to minimise their childish behavior as much as possible.

Yeah, and most 17 year olds don't do that. Their age is not an excuse.

 

[Sub_Level]

Throwing coffee belies hundreds of thousands of years of honing that spear-throwing technique.

Yeah you throw spears at animals or opposing tribes, not the females lol

 

[quaere]

Edit: Okay, seriously, there IS a defense force for everything. She is failing because she isn't doing it nicely and sweetly enough?

She isn't failing. This will raise awareness of sexism. Still doesn't make it a good idea for kids to open themselves to mass public abuse from other kids.

 

[Snowman]

Yeah, and most 17 year olds don't do that. Their age is not an excuse.

Except it kind of is in some ways

 

[iRouge]

17 year olds aren't kids. They are old enough that we should expect them to be mature adults, instead of excusing their childish behaviour.

Adult? In the UK they're not at a legal to do anything but have sex. In other parts of the world, they may be seen as adults. I've been one and live with one, and can happily still refer to a 17 year old as a kid. They have many more years and experiences left to go before they can gain that title IMO.

 

[Dead Man]

Except it kind of is in some ways

Well I'm convinced :/

 

[User 100115]

She isn't failing. This will raise awareness of sexism. Still doesn't make it a good idea for kids to open themselves to mass public abuse from other kids.

I would think that 17 year old kids are the best place to start teaching that sort of thing. Otherwise you get 20-30 year olds continuing to think that behavior is totally fine.

 

[shanshan310]

That response challenged their alpha male ego, result was violence. Better solution, do it back, if they're treating you like a bag of meat, treat them like a bag of bone...rs? Eye for an eye, there, equality. It's never as fun when it's done back, so they'll quickly lose their amusement.

I don't think taking a step backwards really helps anyone move forward. I don't want anyone to just be treated as a sex object, regardless of sex. They'll never learn anything if you just accept it and engage in flirting.

 

[Enron]

17 year olds aren't kids. They are old enough that we should expect them to be mature adults, instead of excusing their childish behaviour.

Mature adults at 17? hahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha.

I would argue "mature adult" doesn't happen until into your early 20s.

 

[Kazerei]

Adult? In the UK they're not at a legal to do anything but have sex. In other parts of the world, they may be seen as adults. I've been one and live with one, and can happily still refer to a 17 year old as a kid. They have many more years and experiences left to go before they can gain that title IMO.

I was a 17 year old once too

That's certainly old enough to understand what feminism is and that bullying is wrong.

 

[shanshan310]

Mature adults at 17? hahahahahahahahahahahhahahaha.

I would argue "mature adult" doesn't happen until into your early 20s.

And by then it's too late to convince them not to be assholes.

 

[Enron]

And by then it's too late to convince them not to be assholes.

Yes. You gotta teach 'em when they are still young, but I think expecting adult behavior out of a 17-year old kid is hilarious.

 

[Snowman]

Well I'm convinced :/

17 year olds are stupid in some ways because they just don't have the experience and knowledge that someone older has. Whether you think that's a good enough excuse is your opinion I guess.

 

[shanshan310]

Yes. You gotta teach 'em when they are still young, but I think expecting adult behavior out of a 17-year old kid is hilarious.

Have you met many 17 year olds? I would expect people to behave responsibly and treat women with respect from birth really, but heck by 12-14 most kids would understand. 17 year olds are months away from being treated as an adult by society, of course I expect them to behave responsibly.

 

[Snowman]

Have you met many 17 year olds? I would expect people to behave responsibly and treat women with respect from birth really, but heck by 12-14 most kids would understand. 17 year olds are months away from being treated as an adult by society, of course I expect them to behave responsibly.

It's just not that simple

17 year olds are more likely to be assholes than when they're older and have grown up a bit more. Maybe that's a failing of society or whatever but that's just how it is and it's not really anything to do with feminism.

 

[Nudull]

Yes. You gotta teach 'em when they are still young, but I think expecting adult behavior out of a 17-year old kid is hilarious.

People should be taught not to objectify or engage in "other"ing to the point of bullying and belittlement, regardless of the expectations given of their age. If they mess up, get them to learn and try again.

 

[nailbombxx]

There are scum in every walk of life. It will be a long, long time before any of that changes, unfortunately.

 

[ElFly]

Use sexism against them; have the girls kick the boys in the nads.

If they fight back they are gonna be ridiculed.

 

[iRouge]

I don't think taking a step backwards really helps anyone move forward. I don't want anyone to just be treated as a sex object, regardless of sex. They'll never learn anything if you just accept it and engage in flirting.

I don't mean the cute flirting, I mean the detestable objective kind. Some people won't know how horrid it is, until it's done back to them, continuously, even when they're not doing it at that time. Hopefully along the lines they understand that it's not pleasant. If that doesn't work, then unfortunately waiting it out and hoping they'll change, is the only other option.

...or be tactical and aim for the ring leader, someone who's influential amongst the teens. Engage in one on one communication and win them over to your cause. Then their army will follow, or split into to, in which you will gain more allies.

 

[Elwood Blues]

In 4 years of highschool kids are subjected to more peer pressure than they will probably experience the rest of the their lives put together, coupled with the fact they are experiencing real freedom for the first time in their lives. I by no means think sexism doesn't exist, but I wouldn't use teenagers as an accurate barometer to how most adults actually act. Saying a 17 year-old should know right from wrong works in a vacuum because most 17 year-olds do, but they also go to school and want to fit in.

 

[shanshan310]

Elwood why do you look like Jake?
>.>

 

[faceless007]

Look, if you haven't successfully taught your progeny in 17 years why it's a bad idea to write things like "bitches should keep their bitchiness to their bitch-selves" and harass young girls you have failed spectacularly as a parent. That's longer than it took us to figure out how to land on the fucking moon, parents sure as hell should be able to figure that one out.

 

[Dead Man]

17 year olds are stupid in some ways because they just don't have the experience and knowledge that someone older has. Whether you think that's a good enough excuse is your opinion I guess.

If the vast majority of 17 year olds can not abuse people, age is not an excuse for these kids.

 

[Soler]

Pressured into sexual acts?
Yaaa okay
Seriously though people still wolf whistle
Cringeworthy behavior

 

[shanshan310]

Pressured into sexual acts?
Yaaa okay

uuh, you might want to elaborate on that.

I don't mean the cute flirting, I mean the detestable objective kind. Some people won't know how horrid it is, until it's done back to them, continuously, even when they're not doing it at that time. Hopefully along the lines they understand that it's not pleasant. If that doesn't work, then unfortunately waiting it out and hoping they'll change, is the only other option.

...or be tactical and aim for the ring leader, someone who's influential amongst the teens. Engage in one on one communication and win them over to your cause. Then their army will follow, or split into to, in which you will gain more allies.

It's an interesting idea, but I don't know how well objectifying men would work in a patriarchal society.

 

[Soler]

uuh, you might want to elaborate on that.

I'm not dismissing feminism but I'm gonna draw the line at that

 

[Elwood Blues]

Elwood why do you look like Jake?
>.>

I like the name Elwood more than Jake, but Belushi more than Aykroyd.

 

[Sanky Panky]

Pressured into sexual acts?
Yaaa okay

What is wrong with GAF today? Please explain what you meant by this...

 

[shanshan310]

I'm not dismissing feminism but I'm gonna draw the line at that

You don't think people can be pressured into sexual acts? Especially given the high school environment?

I like the name Elwood more than Jake, but Belushi more than Aykroyd.

I completely understand. It is quite the dilemma.

 

[Soler]

What is wrong with GAF today? Please explain what you meant by this...

You don't think people can be pressured into sexual acts? Especially given the high school environment?



I completely understand. It is quite the dilemma.

If you can be pressured into sexual acts I'd say there's some issues there

 

[Snowman]

If the vast majority of 17 year olds can not abuse people, age is not an excuse for these kids.

Depends what you mean by excuse. I don't think anyone's saying what they did was okay because they're 17, they're saying it's expected because sometimes 17 year olds do stupid shit.

 

[Sanky Panky]

If you can be pressured into sexual acts I'd say there's some issues there

Orrrr you are getting raped, like many many girls.

 

[Jintor]

it'd be nice if 17 year olds weren't expected to do stupid shit

 

[FrenchToastDisciple]

This sort of stuff is so disheartening. I'm so, so sick of having the frustrating disparity of understanding how this could happen from an intellectual level and being in utter disbelief and anger on an emotional level. But I guess we just have to soldier on and stubbornly stand our ground in the most constructive way possible, or else it'll never get any better.

 

[Soler]

Orrrr you are getting raped, like many many girls.

Wait that was about rape?
I read that wrong
I thought it was about a girl being pressured by her boyfriend or something
Edit: i didn't read that wrong at all, it's not about rape

 

[Snowman]

it'd be nice if 17 year olds weren't expected to do stupid shit

That's part of how people grow up though, learn from mistakes and all that.

 

[shanshan310]

If you can be pressured into sexual acts I'd say there's some issues there

You're sixteen. All your friends are having sex, there's this guy your friends have set you up with and he's kind of cool but he's also really pushy and you don't think you're ready and you barely know him but people are going to call you a frigid bitch at school if you push him away. Your friends set you up, how can you let them down? and this guy is pretty strong and he's not letting up even though you've made it pretty clear you want to go home. I guess if you do it he'll let you go.

I don't see how it could be all that outside the norm. People get pressured into all kind of shit in high school. It's not an uncommon story, but people tend to brush off rape because it's high school kids being kids and usually the people involved don't even understand themselves.

Wait that was about rape?
I read that wrong
I thought it was about a girl being pressured by her boyfriend or something
Edit: i didn't read that wrong at all, it's not about rape

Read it again.
You know husbands can rape their wives right?

 

[Supermanisdead]

many maaaany girls are pressured into sex. it's one of the most infamous aspects of western high school /prom culture

 

[Soler]

You're sixteen. All your friends are having sex, there's this guy your friends have set you up with and he's kind of cool but he's also really pushy and you don't think you're ready and you barely know him but people are going to call you a frigid bitch at school if you push him away. Your friends set you up, how can you let them down? and this guy is pretty strong and he's not letting up even though you've made it pretty clear you want to go home. I guess if you do it he'll let you go.

I don't see how it could be all that outside the norm. People get pressured into all kind of shit in high school. It's not an uncommon story, but people tend to brush off rape because it's high school kids being kids and usually the people involved don't even understand themselves.

That sounds more like rape than peer pressure to me

 

[Snowman]

That sounds more like rape than peer pressure to me

Kind of a bit of both imo

 

[akira28]

Throwing coffee belies hundreds of thousands of years of honing that spear-throwing technique.

it's true.

 

[Soler]

Kind of a bit of both imo

If you don't want to and you've made it clear you don't want to and he doesn't stop, that crosses the line into rape

 

[demon]

If you don't want to and you've made it clear you don't want to and he doesn't stop, that crosses the line into rape

Well, you could say it's rape in part due to peer pressure.

 

[shanshan310]

If you don't want to and you've made it clear you don't want to and he doesn't stop, that crosses the line into rape

Pressuring someone into agreement is also rape.

 

[Snowman]

If you don't want to and you've made it clear you don't want to and he doesn't stop, that crosses the line into rape

But you eventually agreeing to it because of the expectations of your friends and worrying about people might say about you if you don't makes it peer pressure too.

Edit: Hell, the guy is probably trying even harder because he doesn't want to go back to his friends and tell them she wouldn't have sex with him, works both ways and it's awful.

 

[Soler]

Pressuring someone into agreement is also rape.

If you don't want to its your responsibility to stick up for yourself and let it be known

 

[Sanky Panky]

If you don't want to its your responsibility to stick up for yourself and let it be known

Except when you are a woman, you get the responses that the girl in the OP got. That's the point of the article.

 

[Artemisia]

If you don't want to its your responsibility to stick up for yourself and let it be known

Or boys can stop making advances if the girl isn't into it.

 

[Soler]

Except when you are a woman, you get the responses that the girl in the OP got. That's the point of the article.

Men go through peer pressure as well
It's not fair to excuse things just because of peer pressure

Or boys can stop making advances if the girl isn't into it.

Duh
I'm not saying they're allowed to harass or anything like that
It's just flawed to excuse things due to peer pressure