It's not about excusing things, it's just recognizing that this kind of peer pressure is a serious issue that needs to be addressed.
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What happened when I started a feminist society at school
- Thread starter RobotNinjaHornets
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It's not about excusing things, it's just recognizing that this kind of peer pressure is a serious issue that needs to be addressed.
Bay Maximus
Banned
Huh?
I always thought forcing someone into agreement was rape. Learn something everyday.
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It sounds like the guys in the OP were fuckwads and hormones can't excuse throwing coffee onto people etc. Also, I hope my children turn out like the woman in the OP. I fumbled around through HS like a moron and she already knows how she wants to positively impact the world. kudos.
cyclonekruse
Member
I have a few thoughts that may be illuminating or may be completely off the mark, so take them how you will. From my standpoint such responses are quite similar to how guys treat other guys, especially weaker guys. Every man/boy gets picked on at some point. One's response to the abuse determines what happens next. If the boy takes it in stride and doesn't let it get to him, certain types of guys might grant him some respect. If, however, the boy complains or otherwise shows weakness, he will lose any chance for respect and then he'll be treated like garbage. It just gets worse from there on out. And "little bitch" or "fag" are prominent among the insults thrown around.
So, to me, it's not so much that they're being sexist or misogynistic. It's more that those guys gave her a "test" of sorts which, to them, she failed and therefore was deserving of ridicule for being weak. And the more she complained, the less sympathy she got from the wider male population at school, even those that may have originally been sympathetic.
Of course, I'm not excusing or endorsing such behavior. Just reporting on what I see from my (probably skewed) perspective.
In a perfect world peer pressure wouldn't exist but it's not so people just have to be smart and stand up for themselves
So you're saying we should just ignore the problem because there's no way we can create a perfect world and hope people can just deal with it?
No it isn't. If you consent, it's not rape. Agreeing is consent as long as you're of age, aren't under any threat or duress, and are mentally capable of giving consent (not retarded, not inebriated, not otherwise incapacitated).
Pressure, not rape:
"Not tonight, I'm tired."
"C'monnnnn..., it's been a week!"
"Okay, make it quick."
Threats, rape:
"No, I don't want to."
"If you don't, I'll tell everyone that you're ___."
"Okay, I'll do it, just promise not to tell people that."
What can you do to stop the peer pressure?
Just make everyone aware of the peer pressure tactics and hope they make the right choice
This is what I envisioned being pressured was
Some people have different definitions of it I guess
Deified Data
Banned
I really see no reason to associate with people who don't identify as feminists in this day and age. The objectives of this particular school of thought are so wide-reaching and beneficial that you either have to be sexist or willfully ignorant to not sympathize with them. The way I see it there are three types of people in relation to this issue: sexist people who will never change, ignorant people who need to be educated, and normal people who are feminists. You could argue for days about how inclusive the label itself is, but the philosophy aims for total equality and liberation between the sexes, not just for women.
Sho_Nuff82
Member
For some reason I'm reminded of this comic.
Sometimes being noble is just taking a piss in the wind, high school is one of those times.
Sometimes being noble is just taking a piss in the wind, high school is one of those times.
Professor Beef
Banned
Maybe it's because of how late it is, but this seems to me like it's veering dangerously close to victim blaming.
Not ironic at all? http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=597991For some reason I'm reminded of this comic.
Sometimes being noble is just taking a piss in the wind, high school is one of those times.
What can you do? How about if you're a mother, father, parent, etc, that you tell your child that it's not okay to pressure someone into sexual or any other kind of situations.
It seems that there's never any responsibility when things like this happen. The kids aren't blamed because "they're just kids," the parents are never blamed because "they don't know," and the schools are never blamed because "they can't control everything."
How about someone takes account for his/her kids and also instills some guiding thoughts into young adults?
Blake'sGrave
Member
jesus this is depressing
Yeaaaaah...that is EXACTLY how those pressuring justify this. If you do not give in, you are a frigid bitch. If you give in, eventually you will just be marked as a slut to be abused. Good times, eh?
Back to the article in the OP: It is frightening to look at the faces of egos when they are realizing in their limited scope that what they are doing is WRONG, yet they grasp at straws trying to change the situation. That is when insults, verbal harassment comes into play - desperate egos really are disgusting.
It absolutely disgusts me how we can't ever have reasonable discourse with some people when it comes to feminism, just look up anything on Youtube or Google about feminism and you'll finds lots of thumb downs, dislikes and negative comments, and this an internet wide thing, outside of feminist sites you'll find nothing but vitriol and negativity directed at it and you'll find people shutting down the conversation before we can even get started. How do we overcome that now that feminism is such a dirty word? I honestly don't know, but it's seriously jarring and depressing and as a person who benefits greatly from feminism, I hate it.
JordanN
Banned
Go straight to the source. Who or what is perpetuating the idea feminism is something to be laughed at?
Once you've found the cause [and combated it], then we can see feminism become tolerated.
It's also possible some hate feminism because they're insecure about it. I.e, some may actually like the privilege of bossing women around saying they only exist for sex. Perhaps reason with them that Women are human beings just like them?
Victim of what peer pressure?
thats what I said earlier
You teach your kids not to pressure others and you let them know about peer pressure, its all you can do and hope they make the right decisions
Da fuq
This is not what I said at all.
And you're going to have sex with someone because if you don't others will call you names? Wut
TheBryanJZX90
Member
Uh wouldn't the "source" be the jackasses that think it's OK to yell at a girl and call her a bitch because she doesn't have sex with them?
I really get sick and tired of the generic internet commenter who is able to read a story like the one in the OP and without ever mentioning how wrong the guys were, just jumps straight to how the girl should have acted differently or how it's all feminists fault somehow.
JordanN
Banned
Not necessarily. For example, it's possible they didn't wake up one day and say "You know what? I hate women" or "I hate Men".
It's possible certain cultural influences in their life like religion or even their own parents, taught them to hate equality, thus making them pawns in what is actually a gender hating playing field.
User 100115
Banned
Why does everyone still continue to think that women need to be talked in/pressured into sex? It's like there are walkthroughs out there, and if you follow the steps you get sex as the prize. Saying no isn't being shy or playing hard to get.
JordanN
Banned
I wonder why men don't go through the same things?
We laugh at homer simpson yet alot of men still shove whoppers down their throats. Can't women do the same?
stufte
Member
The blame can't be placed soley on advertising. I've seen parents encourage dieting in teens, and even seen parents shame girls for not being thin enough. I agree that photoshop should be banned in advertising, but it's a more difficult problem than just ads.
I'm completely, utterly against sexual abuse or crimes of any sort and think it deserves maximum penalties as it messes people up for life.
That being said, "pressuring" people is not rape. It's being kind of a jerk, but it's not a crime. If pressuring people into things is a criminal act, every boss, authority figure, pushy leader, or aggressive asshole...is a criminal.
Saying that pressure is as bad as rape trivializes the actual crime, which, as said, is abhorrent.
That being said, "pressuring" people is not rape. It's being kind of a jerk, but it's not a crime. If pressuring people into things is a criminal act, every boss, authority figure, pushy leader, or aggressive asshole...is a criminal.
Saying that pressure is as bad as rape trivializes the actual crime, which, as said, is abhorrent.
I think feminism is completely misunderstood by the majority of the population.
Even a year ago, the mention of 'feminism' would have just made me think of over-the-top ideas which don't really exist. I was fed with straw-feminists my whole life via the media, so when I even heard the mention of feminism, I just zoned out. Seriously, if you asked people "Should women have equal rights to men", then I'm sure that 95% of people would answer yes.
Saying that, I am concerned about young men, similar to those described in the OP. The treatment of women is perhaps even regressing from the last decade or so, with horrible things such as "LAD culture" being widely accepted. I think that teenage boys might be pressured in to complying with these sorts of horrible standards in order to fit in.
Even a year ago, the mention of 'feminism' would have just made me think of over-the-top ideas which don't really exist. I was fed with straw-feminists my whole life via the media, so when I even heard the mention of feminism, I just zoned out. Seriously, if you asked people "Should women have equal rights to men", then I'm sure that 95% of people would answer yes.
Saying that, I am concerned about young men, similar to those described in the OP. The treatment of women is perhaps even regressing from the last decade or so, with horrible things such as "LAD culture" being widely accepted. I think that teenage boys might be pressured in to complying with these sorts of horrible standards in order to fit in.
wsoxfan1214
Banned
Holy shit. Are you fucking kidding me? So what are they supposed to do? Sit there and take the shit from the guys and not say anything?
"Hey! We have a society, but we won't stand up for ourselves, otherwise we might be called out for no reason!"
Everything after the first sentence devolved into random drivel that made no sense, so I won't even bother past that point.
Tim the Wiz
Banned
Some people can't handle their attitudes or complacency being challenged.
Now, it's time for a game of fem-bingo:
"Maybe it's just their fault?" Hit!
"Market feminism better to be more accessible to men." Too easy! It's not like you could be ignorant for not knowing the definition of feminism. (And, hey, why not change that pesky name and take the 'fem' out?)
All we need next is a good ol' fashioned censorship screed.
Blake'sGrave
Member
excellent point, I can definitely relate to this. Ultimately most men just don't know what feminism actually is, or why it's important. Developing a sense of empathy would seem to be helpful, I bet if most men stopped for a second to imagine how the constant attrition of sexual objectification would effect them as people they'd begin to see why the concept of feminism is such an important one.
It's also very sad seeing the amount of girls/women willing to go along with the whole 'LAD' thing in order to gain some kind of approval from the males in their peer group, especially in the U.K. That whole culture just demeans everyone it touches.
But why are they doing so?
http://www.raderprograms.com/causes-statistics/media-eating-disorders.html
shanshan310
Member
I guess this is what they mean when they say education is needed on the definition of what constitutes a rape. What do you mean by agreeing? Physical acceptance is not enough. Pressuring someone into sex is most definitely rape. It doesn't have to involve a dark alley and a knife to someone's throat.
Pretty much. And, contrary to popular belief, women do enjoy sex and will usually initiate when they want it!
Professor Beef
Banned
whoa now, thats crazy talk i mean women wanting sex without me using one of my Super-Cool Swag Moves?
Chuckie
Member
No it seems it is about the different meaning you two give the word 'pressure'. He considers the first example already pressure and I think we all agree that first example is not rape.
shanshan310
Member
Well no, but if he continued pestering her maybe.
Chuckie
Member
True. It all depends on the amount of 'persuasion/pressure' I guess. Anyway these are semantics. It all comes down to: No means no.
SpectreFire
Member
Kind of reminded me of how a group tried petitioning for the creation of a Men's Centre on my school's campus, but a bunch of idiots were vehemently against it for absolutely ridiculous and sexist reasons.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fiMg8N79Us&feature=player_embedded#at=50
http://thetyee.ca/News/2012/05/03/SFU-Mens-Centre/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fiMg8N79Us&feature=player_embedded#at=50
http://thetyee.ca/News/2012/05/03/SFU-Mens-Centre/
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
So will men. And teenaged boys are a miserable pile of hormones without the experience or perceptiveness to balance that out. Therein lies the problem.
I hope the boys slinging insults were stupid enough to post under their real names. It looks like they cleaned up the mess already because the offensive posts are gone from the Facebook page.
shanshan310
Member
Yup yup.
Moral Panic
Member
It says they go to an all-girls school, but who are the boys they are talking about then?
Sorry but no. Being annoying is not rape. If he resorts to using fear or intimidation then yeah.
He could be harassing her, that something different, but if she gives in to shut him up it's not rape.
Dude Abides
Banned
No, insistent begging does not make it rape, at least not in the US.
There are a few things that nullify consent, and that isn't one of them.
Here is a general summary.
http://www.lexisnexis.com/lawschool/study/outlines/html/crim/crim25.htm
"We are men." - Frank TJ Mackey
While this thing is disgusting and has to change I think the article needs more aspacts.
Peer pressure doesn't only come from the male side like it sounds here, especially high school girls in groups can be also very mean to other girls and put pressure on them.
I've also seen girls who ridicule feminists, while of course here the boys are way more disgusting it seems so onesided.
THe twitter posts are of course idiotic and show how many people have no real idea what feminism is.
Peer pressure doesn't only come from the male side like it sounds here, especially high school girls in groups can be also very mean to other girls and put pressure on them.
I've also seen girls who ridicule feminists, while of course here the boys are way more disgusting it seems so onesided.
THe twitter posts are of course idiotic and show how many people have no real idea what feminism is.
shanshan310
Member
Pressuring someone into sex isn't merely "being annoying".
That's common law.
Insistent begging no, but pressuring someone into sex maybe. If permission isn't gained it is - "lack of consent = forcible" according to your site.
That site also says that man cannot rape their wives. What the fuck.
Not sure if its the same in this case but the all boys grammar school I went to had an all girls grammar school next to it, and the two schools shared some facilities, staff, a sixth form and did some shared activities. I imagine it was something like that.
Either that or just other comprehensives in the area.
Dude Abides
Banned
It describes common law, modern statutory law, and the modern penal code, which is the basis for criminal law in many states. You're not reading it carefully.
Forcible does not mean insistent begging, or pressuring short of threats, it means force or threats of force.
Wrt marital rape, at common law one couldn't rape one's spouse. That is not the modern approach.
shanshan310
Member
I guess it depends what you mean by "pressuring". Like I said, it's more than "insistent begging". You make it sound like it's just some guy going "pleeeeease... you're ALWAYS tireeeed".
Then, what do you mean by pressuring?
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