Too bad the SNES sequel was cancelled.
This is Chrono Trigger before Chrono Trigger was Chrono Trigger. It did most of the gameplay mechanics in 8 bit. Also has mechanics no other RPG has.
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What is the best 8-bit RPG?
- Thread starter CartridgeBlower
- Start date
PC Engine and Mega Drive mainly competed with the market leaders of the time who happened to be first the Famicom and later the Super Famicom.
Full stop.
In the year between march 1992 and march 1993 the shipment in Japan were respectively:
Super Famicom: 4170K
Game Boy: 1810K
Famicom: 740K
PC Engine (+ CD): 670K
Mega Drive (+ CD): 480K
Furthermore , here evidence of the game releases per year in Japan for PC Engine (+CD) and Mega Drive (+CD and 32X).
You can see how they follow a similar pattern were the strongest years were roughly between 1990 and 1994 (Mega Drive was released a year after the PC Engine).
The PC Engine CD rom addon is the only case in the history of videogame I can think of
where an addon supersede the main business in fact in the end there were more releases on CD than on Hu card.
PC Engine (as you can see the twilight years for PCE were from 1995 onward):
Mega Drive:
NinjamicWZ
Banned
like, not even the best in the 8-bit series. Legend of Xanadu and Legend of Xanadu 2 were so much better:
Those look pretty cool. Watching some youtube vids now.
I'm playing Legend of Xanadu 2, it is a great game.
HalfwayOrb
Member
Dragon Warrior 4
No fetch questing (i.e much more straightforward (and less confusing) and focused on elements of combat and exploration), only side-view boss battles instead of side-scrolling levels, some of the best graphics on a PCE game and absolutely fantastic soundtrack. Amazing game and simply a complete masterpiece.
I believe SamIAm and EsperKnight are currently working on The Legend of Xanadu II.
pants
Member
Yeah... these are the responses I wanted to see made as I didn't have TOO much Japanese knowledge but just knew that sort of argument just... wasn't right, at all (well, there's the Atari thing too, but I wonder if it's similar there where most Europeans would think of BOTH anyway via osmosis and marketing.) I think at a minimum you can't rationally count Super CD-ROM2 games, they've been juiced up just enough and their primary period of release was during the heaviest points of the 16-bit era.
There's a fan translation for the Super Famicom version, as I mentioned at the bottom of the post.
Oh, I guess I should have read the whole post again and not just the part about Emerald Dragon, sorry. Thanks for the answer. That version's pretty cheap, too.
Chinbo37
Member
Lol wat
The Super CD-Rom2 games add nothing but ram. It's a ram upgrade. This is like saying the RAM expansion for the N64 made it compete against the dreamcast.
Yes, I am arguing exactly that. To point out that the Mega Drive and Super Famicom launched shortly after the PC Engine is to ignore the market share entirely. The Famicom was still the dominant console in japan, racing against the PC engine, until about 1993-1994, when the Super Famicom started taking off and the PC Engine began declining in popularity.
The PC Engine was absolutely a product conceived to go against the Famicom, and it primarily did. A mere Ram expansion doesn't make it suddenly a generation ahead.
Adam Prime
hates soccer, is Mexican
Has anyone mentioned "Breath of Death VII and Cthulhu Saves the World"?
They're better than any of the archaic mess in thread.
IrishNinja
Member
it's Phantasy Star 1, but since that's been known, i'll vote Sweet Home
ya'll know this is totally cheating though
really? first ive heard that one nominated
ya'll know this is totally cheating though
really? first ive heard that one nominated
Ys book I & II released 1 year prior in japan to the ever-popular Dragon Quest IV choice people are making, and 2 years prior in the US.
IrishNinja
Member
i get that, but it's still not what i'd wager OP meant when he asked "best 8-bit RPG"
The MSX2 version is also being worked on I believe.
Neff
Member
Ms. Kodama is pleased, and so am I.
Is there a legit way of playing Phantasy Star 1 these days? I don't think it was every ported to my knowledge
I remember playing PS2 through 4 multiple times but outside of the original Master System itself, I've never replayed PS1.
As mentioned, the PS2 collection on Japanese PSN has english options. It's also available on Wii VC, however it's 50hz in Europe.
The most convenient option is probably to pick up a copy of Sonic's Ultimate collection for PS3 or 360, which is very cheap and features Phantasy Stars II - IV, as well as Phantasy Star as an unlockable game.
So then what did he mean? Some people have said he meant games which were early, as the OP himself claims early games haven't had time to be subject to refinement. Well, if that's the case, several PC engine games meet that criteria, more so than the popular NES choices like Mother and DQIV.
If he meant "game from a machine with an 8-bit architecture" then that is inclusive of the Atari 8-bit, PC engine, NES, and SMS.
If he intended to say "NES and SMS" games, then he chose his words poorly and should have said exactly that. Regardless, PC Engine games are absolutely 8-bit games, there are no ways around it.
The N64 also didn't have hardware that could hold up at all to 3D hardware released just a few years later. But if you had done the equivalent on the Dreamcast, added RAM and a DVD drive, it could probably legitimately hold its own against the PS2, GC, and Xbox still, at least as well as the PC Engine did with the SFC/MD.
That's kind of the thing though, for just generation definition TIME is most important, because I imagine the PC Engine even in its base form was closer to the SNES/Genesis than the Wii was to PS3/360, but it's in the same generation as those two systems, and the same for Wii U despite coming out a year ahead of PS4/XB1. Unless you'll argue that, which would actually explain everything about our stances right there anyway. Still, the fact the PC Engine games frequently looked more like something you'd find on SFC/MD punts it over there too I'd think, and the whole point of all of them releasing hardware at that time was to trump hardware that already existed.
IrishNinja
Member
yes, PCE competed with NES, but TG-16 fell under the gen of SNES/Genesis/etc, and "8-bit architecture" is quite the stretch when we both know you're trying to focus on the processor and not the dual 16-bit GPU.
i love the PCE, but come on.
Oh, I missed this bit:
Note how no one far as I noticed objected to Ys I & II. Not only were those released on PC/FC/SMS but they're VERY early PC Engine CD titles. The ones we took exception to were released in 1994 and 1995 on hardware that was technically further ahead. They look like 16-bit RPGs from those years, and look to have taken similar refinements you'd get from development experience, they completely run afoul of the OP's intent in every way but raw technicality, which goes back to my Xbox CPU point.
I really need to play Phantasy Star... my favorites from the few 8bit RPGs I played, in order:
Mother
Gameplay wise a competent DQ clone with some unique elements. Scenario is godly, even better than Mother 2.
Megami Tensei II
I actually played the 16bit remake but the gameplay isn't that different. Second MT I played after Nocturne. Defines what the MT games are about in comparison to the novels.
Dragon Quest IV
I prefer it to III (which I played on SNES) actually.
Final Fantasy III
Almost as good as IV in terms of gameplay and challenge.
For the Frog the Bell Tolls
Unique gameplay and parody story. There are no other RPGs quite like it, even among Nintendo RPGs.
I put story over gameplay in this genre but all of them have worthwhile gameplay as well.
Mother
Gameplay wise a competent DQ clone with some unique elements. Scenario is godly, even better than Mother 2.
Megami Tensei II
I actually played the 16bit remake but the gameplay isn't that different. Second MT I played after Nocturne. Defines what the MT games are about in comparison to the novels.
Dragon Quest IV
I prefer it to III (which I played on SNES) actually.
Final Fantasy III
Almost as good as IV in terms of gameplay and challenge.
For the Frog the Bell Tolls
Unique gameplay and parody story. There are no other RPGs quite like it, even among Nintendo RPGs.
I put story over gameplay in this genre but all of them have worthwhile gameplay as well.
Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
Honestly, the 8 bit RPGs seem to follow the DQ template. So, I'll go for an off-beat choice.
Then you shouldn't argue against the PC Engine's inclusion, as you've done. Your arguments are that the PC Engine doesn't count save for a technicality. With this, you're claiming something entirely different - that late released games shouldn't count.
Discounting half the system's library is still extremely arbitrary, btw.
Hell yes. And the protagonist in this is still unique. A female protagonist who is a fighter and wears armor that isn't boob armor. Too bad Sega buried it. I ranked it up with FF and DQ before the 32bit era.
Cow Mengde
Banned
I don't know. I actually didn't like Crystalis all that much.
Scheherazade is very strange in that the game has both action combat a la Zelda, Crytalis, Star Tropics, etc and random battles with a full party like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy. The world is also not as open as Zelda and Crystalis. It's more like Star Tropics with different chapters.
PixyJunket
Member
Wasn't Crystalis more of an action/adventure game? I don't remember it being much an RPG (unless your only prerequisite for the genre is that the character has a sword, which is lame).
Anyway, my chip is on Dragon Warrior IV, a game that was just incredible for its time and has aged incredibly well. I know most people will pick III due to the level of replayability the class system offers, but IV is my jam. I love how clean the graphics are, the music is probably the best in the series and the structure of having four mini RPGs before the main quest really started just felt awesome to me, it offered such great pacing.
Anyway, my chip is on Dragon Warrior IV, a game that was just incredible for its time and has aged incredibly well. I know most people will pick III due to the level of replayability the class system offers, but IV is my jam. I love how clean the graphics are, the music is probably the best in the series and the structure of having four mini RPGs before the main quest really started just felt awesome to me, it offered such great pacing.
Definitely what comes to mind for me.
Some of the later dungeons are so maze-like it can be frustrating unless you know that coming in. Otherwise, it holds up well.
i'll probably get sent to the shed for this but I think the first (and second) aged so much that IV is pretty much the only one worth playing... unless you're really looking to get an oldschool rpg fix
DimmuBurgerKing
Member
Wow, really? I sure as hell don't see it.
It's one of Django's many announced projects so no telling where progress is. It might never happen, it might pop up tomorrow, might pop up in French, no real way of knowing.
Thanks for the reply, I'll give it a try.
First, stop being aggressive. It doesn't make your point more relevant.
Yes, the PC-Engine, even with all its extensions, is an 8-bit system, I've never argued that. And yes, it was created to go against the Famicom, at first.
But you are putting to much credit in the CPU and are ignoring the realities of the market at the time. The next-gen war began the year after its release with the MD, and the failure of the SGX (with was conceived with an 8-bit processor too) forced NEC to enter the 4th gen with the PCE.
From 1990 to 1995, the 4th gen was largely dominated by the SFC (17M units sold). The actual "war" was fought between the PC-Engine and the Megadrive for the 2nd place.
Judging by your argument, you wouldn't put the MD in the same bag than the PCE (it's a 16-bit after all, right?). And yet, the 2 had a strikingly similar life: released one year from each other, both with a CD-ROM add-on, sold around the same (4M for PCE, 3.5M for MD) and a similar game release schedule. Let's have a look at it:
87: PCE 5 games / MD 0 game
88: PCE 21 / MD 4
89: PCE 75 / MD 21
90: PCE 116 / MD 60
91: PCE 110 / MD 92
92: PCE 120 / MD 98
93: PCE 85 / MD 124
94: PCE 74 / MD 109
95: PCE 35 / MD 44
96+: PCE 9 / MD 2
Notice how both were at their height during the years 90 to 94.
And then there are the games, and despite the CPU, the differences between MD games and PCE Super CD-ROM2 games are almost null. If you don't believe it, look at Winds/Lords of thunder; similar on both machine.
As it was pointed out with the Xbox example you chose to ignore, and you own remark about 2nd gen consoles, the size of its CPU doesn't determine the generation one machine belongs to. As its release, the PCE was already almost one generation ahead of the Famicom.
Do you read Jp? I assume you do with the passion you show about the subject. So go read this article. Yes I know, it's Wikipedia, doesn't make it less relevant and you can't say it's "western" revisionist history.
Now, it's totally off-topic and I have work to do so I'm done arguing with you.
like, not even the best in the 8-bit series. Legend of Xanadu and Legend of Xanadu 2 were so much better:
Holy shit I want to play these. Loved Faxanadu.
like, not even the best in the 8-bit series. Legend of Xanadu and Legend of Xanadu 2 were so much better:
Wow this looks nice. I don't have a PC-engine or an MSX though T.T Are there any other ports of these games? I'm looking around and it seems they got tons of remake and ports. It's apparently part of a Saturn collection (I suppose it's super expensive?) too. No Windows ports or a way to get the games from a JP download store? I'm looking at Falcom's website and I'm only finding Xanadu Next.
This thread has me interested in this and Emerald Dragon. It's not the first time Aeana has been pimping Emerald Dragon so it must be pretty good.
To stay on topic, my favorite 8-bit RPG are probably Dragon Quest IV, Mother I/Earthbound Zero and Crystalis. I would add Startropics 1 too but most people would probably argue its not an RPG because there is no EXP or stats.
Dragon Quest IV is my favorite DQ game and the localization it got on the NES is pretty impressive for the time.
I'm always amazed by Crystalis every single time I play it. It looks so good and for a NES game and I find it better than the two Zelda games on the NES. The only downside to the game is that some boss are invincible if you are not over a certain level.
That1BlackGuy
Member
Many good choices, as often with these types of threads I don't think I could come up with just one game. As the Gameboy was my first gaming console the device (combined with GBC) had an great roster of quirky and diverse RPGs:
Azure Dreams
Crystalis
Daikatana
Final Fantasy Adventure (my first JRPG)
Final Fantasy Legend I + II
Pokemon
Brian's Journey
Shadowgate
Ultima
Knight's Quest
Dragon Heart
Metal Walker
Star Ocean: Blue Sphere (never got localized unfortunately but I still enjoyed it)
Azure Dreams
Crystalis
Daikatana
Final Fantasy Adventure (my first JRPG)
Final Fantasy Legend I + II
Pokemon
Brian's Journey
Shadowgate
Ultima
Knight's Quest
Dragon Heart
Metal Walker
Star Ocean: Blue Sphere (never got localized unfortunately but I still enjoyed it)
The more I thought about it the more I realized it is indeed an RPG. A pretty advanced one - too.
Besides the EXP and stat system (base stats increase per level) you had equipment with various effects and enemies had stats as well.
For example enemies had weaknesses, resistances, and immunities to different swords, elemental attacks, and spells you were using, while each sword had different ranged elemental attacks with varying speeds and hit-boxes (both in shape and ability for a single shot to hit multiple times) and animations/ spreads from being completely random to being fullscreen. Enemies also had a minimum requirement for being able to damage them at all, one of several ways in which the game implemented level requirements. Certain equipment also had special effects like giving you poison immunity, slowly regenerating health, or directional resistances to certain status effects (shields), all of these items having their own set of stats.
With this in mind I'd have to ask how this isn't an RPG as we have come to define them at this point.
Yeah this thread got me looking up Legend of Xanadu 1&2 footage as well. As far as I can tell they're in fan translation limbo too? So much PC Engine stuff I'd love to see.
MagnaderAlpha
Member
It was basically an RPG that marries the concepts of traditional turn-based RPGs and action RPGs together into one game. You have moments where everything is real-time, even battles where you have to run around killing enemies in LoZ fashion, then BOOM, random encounter in turn-based fashion where your party members help you out(and ever perform combo attacks).
This is Chrono Trigger before Chrono Trigger was Chrono Trigger. It did most of the gameplay mechanics in 8 bit. Also has mechanics no other RPG has.
The Ninja Boy/Super Chinese series was like that too. Battles occurred in "random encounter" fashion, but instead of turn-based, they were arena/beat em up in style where, to win the battle, you have to defeat a certain number of enemies. Then, of course, some bosses were fought in turn-based style. Really unique, as you never seen games do stuff like this, and quite frankly, you still don't. Perhaps it was TOO revolutionary, but for me, it was just perfect. Even games like Flying Warriors was a mixture of 2D action platformer + fighting game + turn-based RPG. Nobody else would've EVER thought of doing such a strange combo of genre mixing.
Culture Brain's games had the habit of not sticking to one traditional formula and were kinda genre hybrids. Shame they don't make games much anymore, and a shame no other company jumped on doing similar things.
It probably was being too charitable to give a free pass to early games then, especially as Ys I & II were on plenty of other systems people wouldn't question at all anyway, and nothing else is being brought up that wasn't multiplatform anyway far as I can tell, nevermind that the defense I was thinking of for early PC Engine games can be applied to stuff like PSII which was very much in the 8-bit mold.