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[aoi tsuki]

The in-store artisan breads are generally not much better than what you get on the shelf, aside from being fresher. Admittedly, i get most of my bread from a supermarket (Arnold and Pepperidge Farm are common for me) but you really can't beat a local bakery for the best breads, particular for the nonstandard fare. Pricier, but you're getting better quality, less crap (fillers and preservatives), and supporting a local business versus some faceless megacorp.

You should really check the ingredients of the store bought/made bread, particularly the cheap breads and the stuff they make in the bakery. There's so much stuff in there that's not flour, yeast, sugar, salt, water, eggs, or oil that it's seriously frightening.

 

[AntoneM]

Well the Indians had a culture, until you decided to wipe them out

You're talking about the genocide that Europeans started right? Ever wonder why the native population in the Caribbean is almost non-existent? Whatever happened to the Inca and Aztec?

 

[Kaervas]

hmm, I'd say that $6000-8000 is pretty normal for instate tuition per year (in state) at even the best public universities. cost of living is going to be all over the place so it's a lot harder to get a good average for that.

That's quite expensive.

Here in Argentina, that's the cost of the best private university. (About 24,000 pesos/year)

And that's not saying much, the best university in Argentina (I dare to say, the only good public university) the UBA, it's 100% free. Even for foreigners.

EDIT:

Every american country (be the exceptio Bolivia) hast exterminatedthe local populace. Julio Argentino Roca finished what the spaniards started, killing more than ten thousand indians in an attemp to collect more lands for the state.

 

[Raistlin]

We have excellent bread and cheese. Just not in the crap section of the supermarket.

But thanks for generalizing.

1) I was referring to the actual type of cheese called 'American'. I'm well aware we have other types that are good.

2) I'm American :lol. Beyond that, I live in the only region of the country that has actual 'good' supermarkets. People from other areas think they're the greatest thing they've ever seen.

 

[Tobor]

Well the Indians had a culture, until you decided to wipe them out

Yes because everyone has to be a fan of American culture? Sure you can say that an entire culture sucks if you have experienced it and formed your own opinion. You dont have to like every nation in the world and their way of living. Why should you?

Anways what I am talking about is estetics, the most important thing is how people are. And I wrote before what I think about Americans, funny you should only react to the negative part of my post.

This is the part I am disagreeing with, and I would disagree no matter what culture you chose. It's clearly time we both let this go, however.

 

[Tobor]

1) I was referring to the actual type of cheese called 'American'. I'm well aware we have other types that are good.

2) I'm American :lol. Beyond that, I live in the only region of the country that has actual 'good' supermarkets. People from other areas think they're the greatest thing they've ever seen.

See, I'm taking this crap way too seriously. Internet, serious business, all that.

I need a beer.

EDIT: What markets?

 

[Kaeru]

This is the part I am disagreeing with, and I would disagree no matter what culture you chose. It's clearly time we both let this go, however.

Fair enough!

 

[deadbeef]

See, I'm taking this crap way too seriously. Internet, serious business, all that.

I need a beer.

EDIT: What markets?

Hope it's not a crappy American beer! lol!

 

[Like the hat?]

if you think american made cheese is bad you haven't been to the most glorious place in the united states - wisconsin

america is awesome.

im going to drink some good ol' american beer (sam adams), eat some delicious wisconsin cheese and sausage, eat some american-made bread, and watch some good old american television (the maury show).

 

[miyamotofreak]

iTunes is satan. I'm killing you first.

iTunes isn't bad. I haven't used it on windows for a while but on the mac its great.

 

[elostyle]

The problem sits very deep.

American want big cars. Big cars need a lot of space. So Americans build huge parking lots. These huge parking lots space things out so much that you have to go everywhere by car. Therefore there is no point in even building sidewalks. This in turn makes going down to the bakery every single or second day like in europe to buy bread a chore. Thus Americans buy their bread during their weekly grocery runs. So preservatives are needed. Voila, shitty bread.

 

[thesoapster]

Yes I do.
I call it fastfood culture, because the experience is easily forgettable.
Your jeans are good, but they are too baggy for my taste.
I prefer the European models more.

Ofcourse there are exceptions, and pretty many of them.
The thing is most Europeans hate USA, and often they cannot motivate why.
I used to be like that, generalising both people, politics, and culture.
But I have come to meet many americans on my travels and at my university.
I can say that I really like americans as people, but not the culture and politics.

And I wrote before what I think about Americans, funny you should only react to the negative part of my post.

Hmmm...

Yeah, I can actually agree to a lot of your likes/dislikes. Though I don't wear really baggy pants. I think most Europeans have a general distaste for the USA because we're the most popular country in that all the shit that goes on here is pretty well known. And because of that so much negative feedback is spread, but as you said...Americans are pretty likable usually. At my workplace I meet lots of Europeans and Asians. They get along very well with Americans. Just the other day I had a nice long chat with a guy from Australia (...not really Europe or Asia, but yeah. The government hires a lot of people from everywhere).

 

[Tobor]

Hope it's not a crappy American beer! lol!

:lol I deserve that.

 

[Like the hat?]

america definitely has the best music, though. why? america had the ramones.

 

[sublime085]

america definitely has the best music, though. why? america had the ramones.

and australia has the wiggles

 

[onadesertedisland]

it's a shame that europeans think it's ok to rag on american culture. especially when one of their arguments is the lack of knowledge of other cultures that american's possess. ironic.

 

[Madman]

I wrote it before(you decided not to bold that part) that I love americans as people and I have never met an american that I didn't like.
But I think your culture sucks, thats all.

First, that statement is contradictory. Second, besides the fact that you don't know anything about American culture except what you see in media, to classify anything as *the* American culture is impossible. People and their culture in this country are vastly different everywhere.

 

[tnw]

Kaeru, I kind of agree with you. I really like being an American, and I do almost always like the people. Just a lot of things about the US. Things often seem cheap and generic.

Kind of the opposite of how I feel about Japan (great culture, don't get along with the people so much)

By the way, I just had Jarlsberg Swiss-style cheese.

Kenya might have lions and tigers, but Norway has definitely outdone them in the cheese category.

try some ridder cheese, also a norwegian cheese. I had some for breakfast this morining. Really tasty

And the only thing I can imagine to be worse than American Wonder bread is fucking shokupan. God I hate that shit

Northern European countries have the most awesome breads ever. Land Brot, Schinkenbrot, pumpernickel, swartzbrot. Soooooo yummy. Pumpernickel bagels are awesome awesome too.

 

[Particle Physicist]

.

 

[WinFonda]

America isn't really known for great food. Here we have a different kind of cultural dominance -- specifically in the entertainment industries.

 

[Kaeru]

Kaeru, I kind of agree with you. I really like being an American, and I do almost always like the people. Just a lot of things about the US. Things often seem cheap and generic.

Kind of the opposite of how I feel about Japan (great culture, don't get along with the people so much)

Thats exactly the feeling I get, cheap and generic. Japanese culture rocks, but the people are very hard to connect to more then in a very superficial way. Although I love Japanese people(my ex GF is Japanese).

Japanese cuisine is the best on earth(and most healthy) but their bread is just GOD-AWFUL.
But did you try the HC-Andersen bread stores(Danish bread), it's quite delicious?

 

[Green Shinobi]

Some of the cheese produced in America is outstanding. If you're ever in Ohio, try to find an Amish supermarket. They make some really godly cheese, those Amish do.

 

[tnw]

Some of the cheese produced in America is outstanding. If you're ever in Ohio, try to find an Amish supermarket. They make some really godly cheese, those Amish do.

yes, very true. Maytag Blue, for example, is a delicious American cheese

Vermont Cheddar is also very good.

America is kind of bipolar in its quality of food. The bottom line is atrocious and upper level is quite good.

Kaeru, I've never heard of that breadshop before. My local supermarket suprisingly has a few german breads.Onkel has been advising me how to use them!

 

[Kaeru]

Kaeru, I've never heard of that breadshop before. My local supermarket suprisingly has a few german breads.Onkel has been advising me how to use them!

Iv'e seen at least 2 stores, both were in different parts of Yokhama. The quality of their bread is European standard(which means it's quite excellent).
They even have some full grain breads that are decent.

I googled around and found this:

http://www.littlemermaid.jp/

That is a branch of their stores.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andersen_Co.,_Ltd.

This contains more info, led me to this website:
http://www.andersen.co.jp/

Im sure you could find information about a store fairly close to you, you should definitely try it out

 

[Odrion]

Pepperidge Farm is a high quality kind of bread, because it's double wrapped.

You can open it, and it's still sealed.

I can't eat Pepperidge Farm though, I cannot have another step between me and toast.

 

[Pristine_Condition]

I know I know *raises hand*

It's because Americans have a pretty shitty culture in general, food, arts, architecture, clothing, etc(and weather or not they have any sorts of culture is debatable)
But I still love Americans as far as people goes.

OK, it's cool...maybe this guy is from Italy or something and has a leg to stand on...

I come from Sweden...

Oh, WTF?

 

[biggkidd32]

Pepperidge Farm is a high quality kind of bread, because it's double wrapped.

You can open it, and it's still sealed.

I can't eat Pepperidge Farm though, I cannot have another step between me and toast.

Mitch? Your alive.

 

[beelzebozo]

bread situation in america is getting much, much better. artisan breads are more widely available, to the point that just about anyone in podunk can walk into a supermarket and buy a nice loaf of unsliced sourdough, french and rye baguettes, focaccia, and so on. to talk about american bread as if it is limited to sliced white bread is like talking about american baked dishes as if they're limited to casseroles that use condensed soups as their primary ingredients. it's severely misinformed, and a conversation better held twenty years ago. awareness about what real quality bread tastes like and demand for that bread is spreading--it just takes time.

America is kind of bipolar in its quality of food. The bottom line is atrocious and upper level is quite good.

this is true nearly everywhere. the truth is that there's room for the bottom line. sometimes the bottom line is good. not every day is made for steak au poivre and duck confit. sometimes it's a hamburger helper day, and be damned if some swedish fool is gonna stomp all over how awesome that is.

 

[Raistlin]

See, I'm taking this crap way too seriously. Internet, serious business, all that.

I need a beer.

no prob

EDIT: What markets?

Wegmans would be the best one.

 

[BorkBork]

I just finished reading Michael Pollan's new book, "In Defense of Food: An Eater's Manifesto" and there's an excellent section on modern day bread versus traditional bread. I'll take the section out of the book:

As your grandmother could tell you, bread is traditionally made using a remarkably small number of familiar ingredients: flour, yeast, water, and a pinch of salt will do it. But industrial bread - even industrial whole-grain bread, has become a far more complicated product of modern food science. Here's the complete ingredients list for Sara Lee's Soft and Smooth Whole Grain White Bread (Wait a minute - isn't "Whole Grain White Bread" a contradiction in terms? Evidently not any more:

Enriched bleached flour (wheat flour, malted barley flour, niacin, iron, thiamin mononitrate, riboflavin, folic acid, water, whole grains, high fructose corn syrup, whey, wheat gluten, yeast, cellulose. Contains 2% or less of each of the following: honey, calcium sulfate, vegetable oil, salt, butter, dough conditioners (which may contain one or more of the following: mono-and diglycerides, ethoxylated mono- and diglycerides, ascorbic acid, enzymes, azodicarbonamide), guar gum, calcium propionate, distilled vinegar, yeast nutrients (monocalcium phosphate, calcium sulfate, ammonium sulfate), con starch, natural flavour, betacarotene, vitamin D, soy lecithin, soy flour.

Five ingredients vs. 36. I'm especially wary of the bolded stuff just because they're either in everything or they make me pretty uneasy.

 

[rollingstart]

The only good bread is either bread from before the 1980s or from an indie baker that you havent heard of.

 

[biggkidd32]

Commercial sandwich bread is made to be shelf stable to maximize profits for the companies that make the bread. It's stability sacrifices taste, however. It's barely leavened as well. The more levening time the dough undergoes, the more complex and varied the flavor. Commercial sandwich bread has a very generic flavor. That why toasting is a must.

Artisanal bread baking is an art. If you live near an artisanal bread bakery please support them. Or better yet, make your own. It's not too hard.

 

[Dice]

My best local place for bread is one of these:

http://www.greatharvest.com/index.html

 

[tnw]

yeah, pepperidge farm makes pretty tasty breads. You can find those in any major supermarket. there are even other breads that are pretty good that aren't expensive.

But stuff like wonder bread and roman meal or whatever it's called. blah, no thank you.

And Great Harvest rocks! We have that in Minneapolis. Very dense bread.

 

[Kaeru]

OK, it's cool...maybe this guy is from Italy or something and has a leg to stand on...



Oh, WTF?

:lol

As I said, maybe Swedish culture is nothing to write home about(well we have a rich history with our kings, vikings, conquerors in Europe, IKEA, etc)

Anyways, Italy has a rich culture that is correct, but Italians as people are about the worst people in all of Europe. Just look at what is happening in Naples right now, they are basically turning a city into a big heap of trash. The ones I met are loud, obnoxious, cannot speak English for shit, and so on.

 

[takotchi]

Wegmans would be the best one.

I remember going to Wegman's when I lived in Rochester, NY. They are nice, but we have a similar local chain in central VA called Ukrop's. It's like Wegman's, but run by far-right, religious whackos so they don't sell booze and they aren't open on sunday at all.

 

[slidewinder]

Get off your fat, indolent ass and head to any of the bakeries that'll be present in any American town with a population of 2,000 or more.

This thread is the equivalent of "WhY DOeS AMEICAN BER SUX???" except that you've substituted Wonderbread for Bud/Miller/Coors. You stinking Euro-ignoramus garbage.

 

[papelnabangka]

If you live in a city of more than 500k, non-mass produced, artisan bread should be easy to find. Even if you live somehwere more remote, places like Vons, Ralphs, Albertson's, Safeway have bakery sections with freshly baked "artisan" breads.

 

[pxleyes]

Bread elitism? Really neoGAF?

 

[Kaeru]

Get off your fat, indolent ass and head to any of the bakeries that'll be present in any American town with a population of 2,000 or more.

This thread is the equivalent of "WhY DOeS AMEICAN BER SUX???" except that you've substituted Wonderbread for Bud/Miller/Coors. You stinking Euro-ignoramus garbage.

Taken from another thread

I once traveled a bit in Europe and Africa, and upon landing back in Detroit I was struck by how most of the Americans looked like they were sickly/dying. It wasn't just the rampant obesity, because there was still a touch of that out in the rest of the world. It was more that everyone looked like they had had been victims of chemical warfare of some sort. Their skin, their eyes, the way their fat was distributed, etc.

Is this true? :lol

 

[Seth C]

:lol

As I said, maybe Swedish culture is nothing to write home about(well we have a rich history with our kings, vikings, conquerors in Europe, IKEA, etc)

Anyways, Italy has a rich culture that is correct, but Italians as people are about the worst people in all of Europe. Just look at what is happening in Naples right now, they are basically turning a city into a big heap of trash. The ones I met are loud, obnoxious, cannot speak English for shit, and so on.

Yeah, but Napoli is a festering shit-pile of a dump anyway, with or without the trash. No great loss.

 

[AntoneM]

I once traveled a bit in Europe and Africa, and upon landing back in Detroit I was struck by how most of the Americans looked like they were sickly/dying. It wasn't just the rampant obesity, because there was still a touch of that out in the rest of the world. It was more that everyone looked like they had had been victims of chemical warfare of some sort. Their skin, their eyes, the way their fat was distributed, etc.

Comparing Detroit to the rest of the US isn't fair to Detroit let alone comparing it to the world .

 

[Kaeru]

Yeah, but Napoli is a festering shit-pile of a dump anyway, with or without the trash. No great loss.

Thats what my brother told me too, he traveled there some years ago.

 

[Dice]

Comparing Detroit to the rest of the US isn't fair to Detroit let alone comparing it to the world .

I'm talking about the airport. There were people from all over the country just like myself, similar to the way Amsterdam has a good airport to see many people from all over Europe.

 

[Seth C]

I'm talking about the airport. There were people from all over the country just like myself, similar to the way Amsterdam has a good airport to see many people from all over Europe.

It is still going to be dominated by people leaving from and returning to Detroit. Additionally, it is an international airport. You were seeing many people who were just getting done with 8+ hour flights, which can be physically draining.

 

[Seth C]

I'm talking about the airport. There were people from all over the country just like myself, similar to the way Amsterdam has a good airport to see many people from all over Europe.

It is still going to be dominated by people leaving from and returning to Detroit. Additionally, it is an international airport. You were seeing many people who were just getting done with 8+ hour flights, which can be physically draining.

 

[Indigo]

Maybe I'm mistaken, but wasn't sourdough bread invented by Americans? San Francisco sourdough is some of the best bread ever.

No, 'fraid not. Sourdough starter was the first form of leavening used in breads and predates the use of yeast.

You should see the stuff they pass off for bagels in Europe.

True, and I find it really surprising. American donuts are also generally better. But pretty much every other pastry in Europe is superior to what you can get in America.

Edited to add: I have to admit I've gotten some pretty decent bread from the Panera chain of bakeries/eateries. And they make good bagels, too.

 

[maynerd]

And the only thing I can imagine to be worse than American Wonder bread is fucking shokupan. God I hate that shit

Whoa there sonny. I dig Shokupan!

 

[tnw]

Whoa there sonny. I dig Shokupan!

shokupan sucks. it's completely white and flavorless.

plus the pieces are too goddamn thick to do anything other than put jam/butter on it. Sandwiches are ridiculous.

 

[Greatness Gone]

I can't believe a topic on bread managed to produce 3 pages. It's fucking bread, people. EAT IT.

Cheese, on the other hand, is much different.