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What Mario can learn from Mania
- Thread starter Mr.Fletcher
- Start date
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OrbitalBeard
Member
Super Mario Maker appears to be the culmination of the entire 2D series up to this point.
Prior to the launch of that game, Tezuka stated that the next mainline 2D Mario would likely be something new and different (it's possible he was referring to Super Mario Run, but I doubt it). 2D Mario doesn't really need to lean on the past anymore, so I'm excited to see where it goes to next.
Prior to the launch of that game, Tezuka stated that the next mainline 2D Mario would likely be something new and different (it's possible he was referring to Super Mario Run, but I doubt it). 2D Mario doesn't really need to lean on the past anymore, so I'm excited to see where it goes to next.
theofficefan99
Junior Member
I love Sonic but I don't think Mario needs to be taking notes from him. Lol
Jaded Alyx
Member
They pretty much did with NSMB2 and that was mediocre
This right here.
UnemployedVillain
Member
Honestly, the only thing it needs from this list is a change in artstyle for the NSMB series. Either low res in the vein of the SNES games or high res similar to Wario Land Shake It.
Mechanically the NSMB games are pretty solid already, which the newer 2D Sonic games couldn't say.
Basically, the two series were incomparable
And 3D wise, the idea that Mario needs to learn from another other series is laughable
Mechanically the NSMB games are pretty solid already, which the newer 2D Sonic games couldn't say.
Basically, the two series were incomparable
And 3D wise, the idea that Mario needs to learn from another other series is laughable
I was and am still hoping that Mario Maker was Nintendo's way to draw a line in the sand between every 2D Mario that came before it and whatever is in store for the future. Nintendo gave the players almost every tool they've had available for years in order for us to construct those types of games, but also challenge themselves to go beyond what has defined them. Mania definitely shows a massive bredth of imagination that Mario could definitively learn from in 2D titles moving forward.
Incidentally, most of the points you mention are the reason I find the DKC series to be superior platformers to most 2D Mario games, especially DKC2 and Tropical Freeze which weren't just presentational marvels but also impeccably designed.
Incidentally, most of the points you mention are the reason I find the DKC series to be superior platformers to most 2D Mario games, especially DKC2 and Tropical Freeze which weren't just presentational marvels but also impeccably designed.
Toadthemushroom
Member
NSMB U definitely is the best of the bunch, especially with its world map channelling Mario World's.
I don't blame people for not giving it a fair shake though, especially when the Wii U sold mostly to Nintendo fans at launch, who would have been burned out after NSMB 2, which launched in the same year and was mostly a miss for the series. I skipped that but picked up U and was delighted.
A rebranding and new visual style would have done wonders for U sales and perception I think, but at the same time the mechanics in U are derived from previous NSMB games so I'm glad they didn't do that.
It's been done:
Easy jokes aside, all 2D Mario really needs to take away from it is better attention to audiovisual variety and detail. Sonic 3's a better touchstone for narrative tips, and while I'm down for offbeat spinoff content being reinvented into platformer concepts, that's not something you can rely on regularly. Most of the IP's staleness results from old ideas that never go away and keep displacing the new ideas Nintendo does have.
Easy jokes aside, all 2D Mario really needs to take away from it is better attention to audiovisual variety and detail. Sonic 3's a better touchstone for narrative tips, and while I'm down for offbeat spinoff content being reinvented into platformer concepts, that's not something you can rely on regularly. Most of the IP's staleness results from old ideas that never go away and keep displacing the new ideas Nintendo does have.
Foxy the Fox
Member
Still playing Mania and is good but Mario has nothing lo learn from it 
NintendosBooger
Member
Only thing I want the Mario games to copy from Mania is the price tag.
That's basically what NSMBU was doing.
I would like them to shake things up again for traditional 2D Mario though - completely new aesthetic, new physics/controls, and really go nuts with some of the concepts and ideas.
I will say your "delving into the past" point is lost on me though, 2D Mario (and 3D) is constantly pulling from the older games, at times to its detriment imo.
-shadow-
Member
All four are a lot more linear than both 64 and Sunshine, but both Land and World took it to a new level. They're both very much 2D in nature with some added depth. Really curious how Odyssey will fit in that line once it's released. I understand that Nintendo sees it as the next one in the 64/SS line, but we'll see once it releases.
No, they succeed Galaxy according to Nintendo.
Toadthemushroom
Member
Looks like NSMB has run its course, there was this interview in late 2015 with Tezuka:
Source.
It can't be Mario Run and it's definitely not Mario Maker as the interview was at the time of MM's release, so I can only say they are working on the next evolution of 2D Mario, like what NSMB was after Mario World.
Mario Maker was the throwback to classic 2D Mario. If I'd be honest I wouldn't want the followup to the NSMB series to take cues from Sonic Mania since I feel Mario Maker is the best series to look back to the past. I want Nintendo to do something new again, but just something less safe than NSMB was.
Source.
It can't be Mario Run and it's definitely not Mario Maker as the interview was at the time of MM's release, so I can only say they are working on the next evolution of 2D Mario, like what NSMB was after Mario World.
Mario Maker was the throwback to classic 2D Mario. If I'd be honest I wouldn't want the followup to the NSMB series to take cues from Sonic Mania since I feel Mario Maker is the best series to look back to the past. I want Nintendo to do something new again, but just something less safe than NSMB was.
Nothing. Lets not pretend Sonic Mania is incredible and other platformers should be more like it.
Sonic Mania is only great because its the first time in 20+ years a sonic game hasn't been terrible. All main-line Mario games range from Great to Masterpiece.
Comparative to their respective gameplay style Sonic Mania finally does what 2D Mario has been doing all along.
With all that said I am enjoying Sonic Mania somewhat. I've only played Sonic 1 on the Genesis and Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast.
Sonic Mania is only great because its the first time in 20+ years a sonic game hasn't been terrible. All main-line Mario games range from Great to Masterpiece.
Comparative to their respective gameplay style Sonic Mania finally does what 2D Mario has been doing all along.
With all that said I am enjoying Sonic Mania somewhat. I've only played Sonic 1 on the Genesis and Sonic Adventure on the Dreamcast.
So the Yoshi and Wario games?
3D Mario has shifted the rules a lot because Nintendo has made Mario the face of all their 3D platformers. On the other hand, when it comes to their 2D platformers, they seem to give new rule sets to a new character i.e. Yoshi and Wario, so as a result Mario very much sticks to his core concept that's been pretty cemented from Super Mario Bros 3 onwards.
Super Mario Maker is so much better than what any new 2D Mario game can do. Ok, SMM can be improved in lots of ways, but even in its current form it's just so good, just add ability to make bigger levels and add more items and stuff and maybe actual world building mode. There really isn't need for any more actual 2D Marios.
Discokuningas
Member
Nothing really. Sonic Mania is fantastic as a Sonic game, best I've played and one of the best games this year but New Super Mario Bros U is still much better game. It's great in everything but art design and music. They really should fix that with he next 2d Mario. And we don't really need to talk about 3d Marios. On the other hand I would be all over something like Super Mario Bros 3 seguel with the same retro style. That kind of a game Sonic Mania really is. Not comparable with newer Mario games.
pretty done
Member
Music. Go back to "16 bit" music if you have to, just get rid of the *BAH BAH*
Astral Dog
Member
What Sonic FORCES could learn from Mario Odyssey
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Better music instead of the "wah wah wah" shit.
Spring-Loaded
Member
because peace has cost mario his strengthvictory has defeated him
OrangeGrayBlue
Member
I'm enjoying Mania but the only thing I'd like to see 2D Mario take from it is the more inspired, ambitious music.
Yeah the NSMB music is meh tbh.
Castle theme was cool tho and the final boss Bowser one in Wii/NSMB 2.
Disagree. I would love a New 2D Mario game with Pixel art, and not that cookie cutter bullshit NSMB design. Nintendo has the talent and money to really make a beautiful, creative 2D Mario with some amazing music. A lot like how Mania is a love letter to Sonic fans, I would love to see something like that from Nintendo for SMW/SM3 fans.
Smh
Wowfunhappy
Member
Pixel art is overused and I wish Sonic Mania hadn't gone with it.
But I do agree they should change up the art style. I would looooove HD sprites.
But I do agree they should change up the art style. I would looooove HD sprites.
Fast Forward
Member
NSMB games play it safe sure, but the level design is top notch. New Luigi U, in particular, was my favorite Wii U game (along with Pikmin 3).
That being said, I've always to see a true sequel to Super Mario World.
That being said, I've always to see a true sequel to Super Mario World.
Ryouji Gunblade
Member
I didn't like the "New" style. Perhaps they can do an HD sprite style like Shake-It?
SonicMegaDrive
Member
I would love a new sprite-based Mario with some actual creativity and decent music.
Toadthemushroom
Member
Shake It! looked very good technically but I felt it was missing a lot of charm that Wario Land 4 had, it felt too "clean", if that makes sense.
I definitely want a new, and more ambitious, visual style. A lot of NSMB's visual look was probably a result of them designing it around the DS.
Bigger 2d stages. Have secret areas that open up with different power ups. I know 3d world/land allows you to keep power ups in stock, hide areas and cool stuff behind power ups found in later stages and have the player comeback and use them! The use of the elemental shields in Mania are great and add an element(lol) of Metrovania to the platforming mix.
I really can't remember powers being used this way in 2d Mario but if someone could prove me wrong that would be fine.
I really can't remember powers being used this way in 2d Mario but if someone could prove me wrong that would be fine.
Not much outside of art direction, honestly. Mania is gorgeous and NSMB has always looked boring as hell to the point I don't want to play the newer ones even though I know they're good. Embrace pixel art, it doesn't bite.
Nintendo as a whole could definitely learn not to be draconian assholes when it comes to fangame communities though, lol.
Edit: Ah, good music too haha. The BAH BAH thing was cute at first, but Jesus.
Nintendo as a whole could definitely learn not to be draconian assholes when it comes to fangame communities though, lol.
Edit: Ah, good music too haha. The BAH BAH thing was cute at first, but Jesus.
I'm gonna say that I actually loved the New Super Mario Bros style at first, but after all the sequels, and then the 3D Land / World games kinda resembling them (being 3D versions of the same linear gameplay) I got tired of it.
So if there's one thing Mania can learn from Mario, it's don't milk it.
So if there's one thing Mania can learn from Mario, it's don't milk it.
Diablohead
Member
The best 2d Mario in a long time when you play levels that go past the regular approach.
2D Mario stages usually lack a sense of identity to me compared to Sonic and even Megaman stages. Eventually the tropes all seem to blur together in Mario.
I think Mario World did stage identity best, and that's why it's my favorite 2D entry.
It's important to me because when the tropes start to blur together, my eyes begin to glaze and I lose sense of progression. They seem like arbitrary challenges and I have no interest in that. I just enjoy more immersion.
I think Mario World did stage identity best, and that's why it's my favorite 2D entry.
It's important to me because when the tropes start to blur together, my eyes begin to glaze and I lose sense of progression. They seem like arbitrary challenges and I have no interest in that. I just enjoy more immersion.
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