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"What writers should learn from Wonder Woman"
- Thread starter WrenchNinja
- Start date
Thank goodness Wonder Woman didn't have that problem
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
It's a good thing Gadot is very lovable and charming as Wonder Woman.
Ummm you may the only person thinking that was being played for laughs. He points at her because neither Steve nor Sam knew that she had any connection to Peggy, let alone speaking at her funeral.
MugiwaraCole
Member
Hey. You know what? You're probably right.
But people laughed during that scene! They laughed when Cap talked to Spidey. Does that make those moments jokes? Does that mean they misunderstood the other emotions they were supposed to be feeling during those very same scenes?
No.
😂😂
The hyperbole is hilarious.
Wondy is a great film (I've seen it twice now), but it's not above the best MCU films. It didn't set a new standard for superhero films. It's not going to change the genre forever.
Wondy was/is a great origin story (because those type of movies are still needed, regardless of what some will claim) and that's about it. The only real difference is that it's a woman in the lead role.
The hyperbole is hilarious.
Wondy is a great film (I've seen it twice now), but it's not above the best MCU films. It didn't set a new standard for superhero films. It's not going to change the genre forever.
Wondy was/is a great origin story (because those type of movies are still needed, regardless of what some will claim) and that's about it. The only real difference is that it's a woman in the lead role.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Wonder Woman is better than GotG2 and Doctor Strange and Age of Ultron.
Edit: The only Marvel movies you can say are better or tied are Cap, Winter Soldier, GotG, and Avengers.
Inferno313
Banned
There's an argument to be made that your final sentence is exactly what makes it so important.
Primethius
Banned
I like most MCU movies more than WW as a whole product (aside from stuff like Thor and AoU). But not necessarily when it comes to characterization, where I thought WW excelled (and so, I do agree with the topic at hand).
I loved a lot of what the movie was trying to do, I just wish it had a bigger budget to execute on it better. The execution is something I think a lot of MCU movies have nailed down and it makes me pretty excited to see Jenkins on WW2 with a much bigger (and well deserved too) budget. But I can't help but be a bit disappointed with the movie in that regard given the dilvuge of MCU movies.
LegendofDragoonLives
Member
That's not much of a standard to uphold. It's a good, fun superhero movie and did nothing to blow anyone away or make its mark at the top of the crop. While I agree with the youtuber's overall point, there's better CBM that you can learn from that WW, including a select few Marvel movies.
Merriweather
Member
I agree. I feel like Wonder Woman is a pretty average super hero movie. Good compared to the recent DC films, but not at all in the upper echelon of comic book movies. When the dust settles and the hyperbole dies down I think more people will come to realize that.
The hyperbole seems to be a response to the Ghostbusters mess last year, and the women only screenings silliness.
I liked the movie, I just didn't think it was the new standard for comic book movies.
Opinions & all.
I'd put Wondy above Dr. Strange and maybe AoU, but I probably enjoyed GotG2 more. In the end, it's been a great year so far for comic movies.
Which is exactly why I said it. Aside from that, there's nothing about this movie that sets it above the rest of the genre.
Origin movies are still needed (for the lesser known heroes) and Wondy is a great example why.
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
It's also important to learn how women felt about WW since they're the ones going crazy over the movie, and rightfully so. It's so easy for guys like us to say WW wasn't anything special compared to other superhero movies.
MugiwaraCole
Member
It was definitely special. It stars a woman. THE woman. That it was otherwise unrecognizable from many other superhero movies is the point. Women, people of color give minorities the fucking stage.
"I'd like to thank all the white men who dominated film and TV for so long that anything starring literally anybody else seems fresh and original by comparison." ~ Donald Glover the gawd
Primethius
Banned
Yep. DC beat Marvel to the punch. And they beat em good.
MugiwaraCole
Member
DC's been making movies for many years longer than Marvel has, has the biggest female superhero in existence under their umbrella, and just now saw fit to drop her movie.
I'm not sure why this is a competition, but if it is, uhhhh that ain't a good look. Glad they finally got with it, though.
But putting WW up there with it? No.
The Aunt May scenes are the emotional core of SM2, and I still think they're better than any in WW.
Not to say they are bad, but they still had the flavor of today's comic book films. I'd say X-Men DoFP was the last one to really play them up well. As crowded as the movie was.
Doctor Strange is the one of the more by the book movies in the MCU, so it's easy to pick on that one. But I kind of liked how the 3rd act of that film was resolved. The emotional fell completely flat though.
Primethius
Banned
I don't see it that way. DC has been struggling with their extended universe for a while now where as Marvel has been putting out solid MCU movies left and right.
Despite that, DC managed to put out a good female-led super hero movie before Marvel did. And it's not as if Marvel is lacking in female heroes.
Is Wonder Woman a big female hero compared to most Marvel female characters? Sure. That hasn't stopped Marvel from taking small time heroes and making them big before.
NipplesAndToes23
Member
Really? It's that good? I hate that I haven't been able to see this yet.
DarthMasta
Member
Wonder Woman is great from the POV that superheroes should be bigger than life inspiring figures, not just normal people with abilities and problems that are greater than the usual. It's a proper Donner superhero movie.
It's not better than most Marvel movies from the this is entertaining POV, or from the see a superpowered individual deal with super problems.
It's much better than what the previous DCEU movies had the audience expecting.
It's not better than most Marvel movies from the this is entertaining POV, or from the see a superpowered individual deal with super problems.
It's much better than what the previous DCEU movies had the audience expecting.
Much better than Cap 1.
Toss up between Cap 2, but I had a slightly better time with Cap 2. WW drags like crazy towards the end (3rd act was also quite the let down), and Evans is a better lead. Gal was good, but some of her scenes didn't quite land with me. Maybe her range will improve but it was very noticeable for me. Not quite as bad as Chris Pratt in Got 2, but around there.
MugiwaraCole
Member
DC's only been trying to make an extended universe since like 2010 with Green Lantern. They've been making movies since the 70's. Marvel put Captain Marvel down for 2018/19, what, 3 years ago? And introduced Wasp, who's gonna headline a movie with Ant-Man, 2 years ago? Fucking Wasp? That doesn't count? It's like Wonder Woman isn't a third of the trinity, but the only one who had to wait like 50 years for some play on DC's end (really WB's).
Did it take Marvel too long? Yeah. Did it take DC even longer? Yeah.
What are you talking about?
We'll just agree to disagree with that.
My opinion: she couldn't act her way out of a paper bag.
Yeah, what I said in the OT (IIRC) and was the agreement between me an dmy friends that saw it:
An important film but not a great film.
Which scenes?
Primethius
Banned
Um. Okay. If you want to consider that DC started the DCEU with Green Lantern, they still put out a female led super hero movie before Marvel who put out IM1 in '08.
It's great they announced a female led movie. I'll get back to you on that one, when I watch it in 2018/19 as opposed to having watched WW in 2017.
MugiwaraCole
Member
Superman came out in 1978. Nigga, what? Their movies aren't restricted to their big screen universes. You read like half the post lmfao
This convo is even weirder considering Marvel launched their movie business as we know it with fucking Blade. 20 years after Superman dropped.
It took DC half a century to acknowledge that the biggest female superhero ever existed on the big screen. And they own her.
They didn't have their own movies, but we at least saw Black Widow, Storm, Wasp, etc before Wonder Woman was even thought of. Again, I'm not sure why this is a competition, but if it is, DC sure as hell didn't win it. And they had a head start.
Primethius
Banned
I read the post. My post, which you responded to, was centered around the context about the current universes.
I don't know what you want me to do because you are broadening the scope outside of my intial point. Yea, DC had a Wonder Woman TV series back in the 70s. That's unrelated to the massive success of super hero movies that began in the late 2000s which my post was largely based around. You're missing my point and going on about some unrelated stuff.
MugiwaraCole
Member
Your post never mentions universes.
Narrowing the view to only them doesn't really make sense either, but, whatever fits the narrative I guess.
All this in a world where Storm and Black Widow are more of a household name pre-the film debut of the most important female hero ever. Wild.
Primethius
Banned
Sure it makes sense. The context being that MCU has been a resounding success both commercially and critically and their female hero movie is still a year or so off where as DCs cinematic universe, which has had both critical and commerical failures across the board pushed out a female hero movie, that was good and a commercial success.
QuantumZebra
Member
First off, Wonder Woman was not even comparable to Cap: TFA as much as it was Superman '78, which TFA pulled from also. Which itself pulled from... etc...
See where this BS goes?
--
On a side note, why does it always seem to be films with women as leads that are called copy / pastes? First Rey is a Mary Sue and TFA is a copy / paste of ANH, now the same with WW and Cap or (insert movie).
Shit is absurd. Everything is a copy/amalgamation of something that came before.
MugiwaraCole
Member
That's really poor context. Especially since a DC universe without Wonder Woman doesn't make a lick of sense. What were they gonna do? Try to make Green Lantern fir-
Oh.
Marvel on the other hand had a collection of cool female heroes that only really work in tandem with other heroes. Even Storm, their biggest hero, is the same, and she's with another studio.
What are we even doing here?
If anything, this is a problem with Marvel comics, not Marvel studios.
Primethius
Banned
What are we doing here? Nothing. You just seem to be making excuses for Marvel is all.
I stand by my post and point in the context of the current cinematic universes.
MugiwaraCole
Member
I'm not even making excuses. It took em too long.
You're blindly doing the "OH, DC is so great for giving this female character the stage!" thing that's become so prevalent without acknowledging they drug their feet doing it until they couldn't possibly wait any longer. It's weird.
Primethius
Banned
Yes, my post stating that DC beat Marvel to the punch is doing exactly what you have rephrased it as. 🙄
You do you and have a good day.
MugiwaraCole
Member
QuantumZebra
Member
Tying up multiple characters/narratives into one neat bow is never easy unless it was simple to begin with. Even movies with few main characters (Man of Steel for instance) fall apart in the third act.
It's great that DC has a good female solo superhero film out, but Wonder Woman is one of the biggest characters in their entire company. A solid number 3 after the big gap between Batman/Superman and everyone else. WB has been trying to get a Wonder Woman film off the ground since the mid-90s, and even the Whedon version dates back to 2005. Wonder Woman was always going to happen once WB got over their fear of doing non-Batman/Superman superhero stuff.
Marvel doesn't have popular female superheroes. Especially once we eliminate the properties that they lack film rights to. It makes perfect sense that they would build Phase 1 around their core Avengers, and that's basically what we got in those first 9 films. As such, I always think that it is misleading to start back at Iron Man 1 when complaining about how long it took for Marvel to diversify. No one questioned the picks that Marvel made when they announced their film deal (well maybe live-action Thor), because they made sense. After that it was several years of sequels.
That said, I agree that they could have tried a Black Widow film, or the Captain Marvel film sooner than 5 years after they started branching out with non-Cap/Thor/Iron Man/Hulk stuff. Spider-Man gets a pass due to the special nature of the deal, but it's not like Ant-Man or Doc Strange were heavy hitters that demanded attention first. Ike Perlmutter is no doubt partially to blame for that.
But what's done is done. DC has a bunch of interesting projects lined up for the future, including more films featuring their female heroes (which has always been one of their strengths over Marvel, outside of the X-Men). Black Panther is almost here and looks great. We should be getting a first view of Captain Marvel in a few months as well once they start gearing up the Infinity War marketing campaign. Hopefully she is also cool.
Her more emotionally demanding ones.
I think Patty did her best to guide her within her own range. But some of her limits an an actress still showed.
It's even more apparent when she's in some scenes with Pine who dropped a pretty good performance.
Kids laughed in my theater at the miscarriage scene in Up. Dumb moviegoers don't invalidate a film's dramatic impact.
Because Rey is a Mary Sue and TFA adapted ANH almost beat-for-beat?
If you want to be reductionist you can make any film sound like it's the exact same as any other film, if you use generalities, but arguing that the parallels between TFA and ANH are merely coincidental is looney toons thinking.
MugiwaraCole
Member
Context.
You're arguing the same thing I am. (Sorta. Because those are kids).