• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Who is preventing online cross-play from happening?

BibiMaghoo

Member
If it's already stopping right at MS saying no, what use is it then to see if Sony would have said yes?

Because of what happens if for a game, MS say yes. Would Sony still allow it was my point. It's all very well assuming they would because we know MS won't, but my position was that may not be the case.

Sony has no policy whatsoever. And no technical limitation. Devs are free to use whatever servers they want, and thus free to have whatever clients connect to those servers they want. IIRC, this comes mostly down to "all XBox online servers are Live servers and on the Live network infrastructure".

Do you actually know this as fact?

They have though. Final Fantasy IX... as soon as MS granted an exception, all three platforms played together. There's literally no evidence to suggest this wouldn't be the case with any other game MS allowed it to happen with.

That is true, but something has clearly changed one side. We do not know if it has the other. I'm not MS defending here, just pointing out we don't have a full picture.
 

Foxix Von

Member
Primarily? Microsoft.

Although, I doubt Sony would be super happy about it. Nintendo is still too busy figuring out what the internet is to be relevant.
 

Chobel

Member
But then going by your analogy it would be as if Netflix and Hulu would want to share the same show. They each have their servers/service why would they want to have to use a 3rd party one and some other code when the one they have is better.

Same way I might be seeing it here, even if I am wrong. What you mentioned makes sense, but why would MS want to use other server and 3rd party code when they have their own great servers and first party code for online?

I still can't see any negative blame for MS here. It sucks but it is what it is.

Most 3rd party devs use their own servers.
 

sörine

Banned
Wasn't there a Chess game on Wii, PS3, Vita, 3DS and mobile that had cross play across all Formats?
Pure Chess although the PS versions are segregated because Sony wouldn't approve crossplatform online at the time.

From the website:

The ultimate multiplayer experience: Play cross-platform on Nintendo 3DS™, Wii U, iPhone, iPad, iPod touch & Android devices.

Basically for crossplatform online with Nintendo anything goes, Sony is case by case and Microsoft as a general rule is a NO.
 

Chobel

Member
Very valuable contributions, well done.

I'm not getting why you think that's so far fetched. Here's how these things tend to go: a proposal gets made by non-technical people (sales, marketing, relationship managers) representing the companies in question. They agree to look into it, pending a review by their subject matter experts to check if the proposal will be feasible in terms of the company policies and standards. There will be a minimum set of criteria that Microsoft will have (and they're MS, so these criteria will be lengthy, and specific, and if you don't meet the requirements, you generally have one of two options: either bring your product up to the minimum requirements they accept, or no deal). The relevant due diligence (including a review of security standards) is carried out and is found not to meet MS's requirements. (Interestingly, a refusal to answer can also count as not meeting requirements.) Ultimately, MS refuse the deal on that basis. Gamers and their desires don't feature in the decision, but they end up viewing the result as an intentional slight on them instead of a normal run of the mill unsuccessful assessment that happens every day in large corporations.

Again, I'm not saying this is how it happened. I just think it's better to discuss the complexities behind these things instead of the "herp derp, MS hate customers" stuff that gets trotted out. Clearly a lot of people have no idea.

Because security excuse is bullshit. Even if PSN got massively hacked nothing will happen to XBL, both are isolated from each other even in cross platform games (Assuming competent devs).

In order for XBL to be hacked trough PSN, you have to:
1) Hack PSN
2) Hack the game servers through PSN
3) Hack XBL through the game servers which were hacked through PSN.

See how ridiculous this sounds.

Even assuming 1 happens, for 2 and 3 to happen, 3rd party devs must be hilariously incompetent.

EDIT: I'm not sure going from 1 to 2 is even possible, For most part PSN is used for player ID stuff, so you can't really sends commands to the game servers.
 
Definitely MS which is ironic cause they should be at the forefront of this. How Sony has more cross-platform games than MS do on xbox is embarrassing.
 

4Tran

Member
How? The Windows App Store is just as open as any other store. If you want Xbox Live integration, obviously you need to talk to Microsoft, and that's one thing, but putting a game on the Windows App Store is not "out of reach" for this "vast majority of publishers". I don't know where you got that from.
By disallowing all non-Windows 10 App Store versions of a game from cross-play, Microsoft is forcing anyone to play ball by either making two different PC versions or releasing their game as App Store-only. It's a pretty simple decision for any publisher looking at a cross-play game to release on the multitude of PC stores and a non-Xbone console instead.
 

Ziffles

Member
To echo pretty much everyone else and other developers... it's Microsoft.

About 4 years ago, I was working for a publisher that was releasing a multi-platform online shooter for PC, PS3, and Xbox 360. The initial plan for the game included cross-platform servers and cross-platform play. Sony didn't care. Microsoft said no. They scrapped cross-platform play altogether since they were going to need separate servers for the Xbox anyway and it would be easier to just maintain 3 separate communities with our current tech than to develop new cross-platform server architecture and authentication system that only 2 of the platforms used. Plus, the publisher didn't want to piss off Microsoft by having cross-platform play be a feature of only PC and PS3.

I would not be surprised if this happens with a lot of other titles who want cross-platform play, but just don't want to bother with it if you still need to setup Microsoft with their own closed system.

Well that pretty much settles it. I have no doubt that this scenario has played out plenty of times over the past decade.

Every multiplatform game that isn't a competitive 1st/3rd person shooter should be cross-play. Even competitive shooters should be able to go cross-console, because why not? At least make it an option you can filter out if you wish. There's just no excuse any more.
 

AmyS

Member
Doesn't WarThunder on PS4 have cross-play with the PC version? I think it does.

I'm wondering why the upcoming PS4 version of World of Tanks won't have cross-play.
 

SwolBro

Banned
there's a lot of devs that don't want cross play either though, especially a lot of shooter devs.

People forget one of Microsofts main pushes last gen was for cross play. Remember ShadowRun? 360 and PC players could both play each other.
 
Definitely MS which is ironic cause they should be at the forefront of this. How Sony has more cross-platform games than MS do on xbox is embarrassing.

The only way MS will be at the forefront is if PC gamers start paying for online play.

They tried that, it didn't work. It looks like they are about to try it again. If it works you can bet every single game will have crossplay.
 

Rising_Hei

Member
From what i know and what i guess, it's microsoft.
It would be awesome having PS4 - PC - X1 players battle each other in special tournaments and such, to gauge who the best platform is in very funny ways, but something as exciting of this doesn't happen because MS prevents it from happening :/
Because KB/M > Controller
There are many kinds of games where this is FALSE.
 

Blanquito

Member
That was a whole lot of words that still didn't say how a third party server that simply calls XBL APIs and PSN APIs for user data and everything else is done on the third party server itself is suddenly a security issue for MS. Unless you're saying that the XBL APIs themselves aren't secure? If so, then MS has much bigger issues. (However, I doubt that MS has insecure APIs)

To echo pretty much everyone else and other developers... it's Microsoft.

About 4 years ago, I was working for a publisher that was releasing a multi-platform online shooter for PC, PS3, and Xbox 360. The initial plan for the game included cross-platform servers and cross-platform play. Sony didn't care. Microsoft said no. They scrapped cross-platform play altogether since they were going to need separate servers for the Xbox anyway and it would be easier to just maintain 3 separate communities with our current tech than to develop new cross-platform server architecture and authentication system that only 2 of the platforms used. Plus, the publisher didn't want to piss off Microsoft by having cross-platform play be a feature of only PC and PS3.

I would not be surprised if this happens with a lot of other titles who want cross-platform play, but just don't want to bother with it if you still need to setup Microsoft with their own closed system.

Great post. Thanks.
 

jax

Banned
Microsoft. So don't buy an Xbox One unless you support this behavior. It's ridiculous I can't play FFXIV on Xbone just because "oh no other network cooties"
 

Melchiah

Member
To echo pretty much everyone else and other developers... it's Microsoft.

About 4 years ago, I was working for a publisher that was releasing a multi-platform online shooter for PC, PS3, and Xbox 360. The initial plan for the game included cross-platform servers and cross-platform play. Sony didn't care. Microsoft said no. They scrapped cross-platform play altogether since they were going to need separate servers for the Xbox anyway and it would be easier to just maintain 3 separate communities with our current tech than to develop new cross-platform server architecture and authentication system that only 2 of the platforms used. Plus, the publisher didn't want to piss off Microsoft by having cross-platform play be a feature of only PC and PS3.

I would not be surprised if this happens with a lot of other titles who want cross-platform play, but just don't want to bother with it if you still need to setup Microsoft with their own closed system.

Damn, that goes along with the last gen Eurogamer article, which mentioned feature parity.


EDIT: Here: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-08-24-why-microsoft-wont-publish-psn-firsts
Not all agree, however. One representative from a publisher who wished to remain anonymous told Eurogamer Microsoft's policy blocks developers from taking advantage of other platforms' strengths.

"Microsoft is suggesting that anything but parity will result in them not carrying a title. They may think this is competitive, but it's not. They are killing any creative exposure of titles to make up for their own platform's shortcomings."
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
Do you actually know this as fact?
Countless PS4 games play on the same online servers as the PC versions. So yeah, that would be fact. No one has ever once said "no we can't connect servers because Sony won't let us." Also fact. Pre-PSN FFXI played with PC (and eventually 360). Post-PSN DQX will be playable across Wii/WiiU/PS4/PC. Plus countless games playable PS4/PC.

Not sure how much more clear it can be.
 

DOWN

Banned
Can someone explain why it's Microsoft's fault? IIRC Shadowrun on the 360 was x-play with PC. Have they come out and said they don't want it? If anything I'd be expecting MS to push for alignment with PC, given that's where their strategy is headed.

And nothing indicates Sony doesn't regard MS the same way. It's a two way street, but the "Its all MS" posts are always amusing.
Developers have confirmed that the reason why games that do cross play are not on Xbox is because of Microsoft. SONY allows it, Microsoft toyed with it and killed it. They won't even allow cross play with PC.
 

Mael

Member
At this point to convince some posters that it REALLY is because MSFT doesn't allow it, they would need a PR reply from MSFT with a signed contract and a sample of blood from Satya Nadella.
 
It's not always cherries and rainbows.

Rocket League:
rtn0OeW.png


I hope to see more cross play going forward. I love being able to play with buddies not on my platform of choice.
 

novablue

Banned
Considering the awful ports and terrible frame-rate, can you blame them? Developers throw out straight trash onto the XB1 and some of y'all think MS would be happy to cross-play with that? Lol


When developers are hitting their targets flawlessly with no/minor hiccups, then they will have an excuse to complain. I think MS has some standards.
 
Considering the awful ports and terrible frame-rate, can you blame them? Developers throw out straight trash onto the XB1 and some of y'all think MS would be happy to cross-play with that? Lol


When developers are hitting their targets flawlessly with no/minor hiccups, then they will have an excuse to complain. I think MS has some standards.

Hahahahah
 

novablue

Banned
I see a lot of people saying Sony are cool with cross-play with PC(Windows)/XB and that's true, but how do you know if their are cool with PS/XB cross-play? Drop us some proof that Sony is cool with it.
 

nel e nel

Member
Can someone explain why it's Microsoft's fault? IIRC Shadowrun on the 360 was x-play with PC. Have they come out and said they don't want it? If anything I'd be expecting MS to push for alignment with PC, given that's where their strategy is headed.

Yes, Shadowrun had PC crossplay, and IIRC, the imbalance between mouse+keyboard vs game pad was so bad, it more or less tanked on console. Microsoft is not eager to repeat that mistake.
 
I see a lot of people saying Sony are cool with cross-play with PC(Windows)/XB and that's true, but how do you know if their are cool with PS/XB cross-play? Drop us some proof that Sony is cool with it.
It has been pointed out plenty of times already, but the question is moot since Microsoft has already demonstrated they refuse to make it work. Can't prove that Sony is specifically cool with working with PSN/XBL but there are plenty of examples in the thread showing where Sony is cool working with PC and Nintendo.

Being concerned about a "what if" scenario reeks of agenda when the real-life scenario is Microsoft being the clown who doesn't want to cooperate.
 

Ziffles

Member
Yes, Shadowrun had PC crossplay, and IIRC, the imbalance between mouse+keyboard vs game pad was so bad, it more or less tanked on console. Microsoft is not eager to repeat that mistake.

This has been discussed to death on these boards and yes, for the umpteenth time, PC players will indeed obliterate console gamers in competitive first/third person shooters. That's still no excuse for lack of crossplay on other titles, though.
 
I see a lot of people saying Sony are cool with cross-play with PC(Windows)/XB and that's true, but how do you know if their are cool with PS/XB cross-play? Drop us some proof that Sony is cool with it.
Square Enix explained in no uncertain terms that ffxiv didn't come to Xbox because they wouldn't allow it. A software developer in this thread confirmed they were developing a game to be cross platform until Microsoft stopped it. There are many psn games cross compatible with steam and other services but no Xbox ones. There are games cross compatible between Sony and Nintendo platforms.

Honest question, what more proof could you possibly need?
Oh wait...you want proof that sony would allow cross platform on a game that isn't coming to pc? Do any games like that even exist anymore? What would be the point of making it only cross platform on the consoles and not pc? How is that even relevant to this discussion?
 

pastrami

Member
I see a lot of people saying Sony are cool with cross-play with PC(Windows)/XB and that's true, but how do you know if their are cool with PS/XB cross-play? Drop us some proof that Sony is cool with it.

Well, we have this post from the last page. But we won't get any "proof" because there will never be a cross-platform game if one of the parties won't allow it.

To echo pretty much everyone else and other developers... it's Microsoft.

About 4 years ago, I was working for a publisher that was releasing a multi-platform online shooter for PC, PS3, and Xbox 360. The initial plan for the game included cross-platform servers and cross-platform play. Sony didn't care. Microsoft said no. They scrapped cross-platform play altogether since they were going to need separate servers for the Xbox anyway and it would be easier to just maintain 3 separate communities with our current tech than to develop new cross-platform server architecture and authentication system that only 2 of the platforms used. Plus, the publisher didn't want to piss off Microsoft by having cross-platform play be a feature of only PC and PS3.

I would not be surprised if this happens with a lot of other titles who want cross-platform play, but just don't want to bother with it if you still need to setup Microsoft with their own closed system.
 

nel e nel

Member
This has been discussed to death on these boards and yes, for the umpteenth time, PC players will indeed obliterate console gamers in competitive first/third person shooters. That's still no excuse for lack of crossplay on other titles, though.

If one's first and only attempt at cross play tanks, one may be hesitant to spend the money to try it again. Pretty basic human - and business - reaction. No reason to get all eye rolly just because I answered a question about a specific example.
 

Ridley327

Member
Because of what happens if for a game, MS say yes. Would Sony still allow it was my point. It's all very well assuming they would because we know MS won't, but my position was that may not be the case.

What situation would MS say yes to now? The big point about FFXI being on the 360 wasn't even about FFXI at all, and they got exactly what they wanted at the end of the day. What game could MS possibly try to compromise on now in the same way that they don't already have and would be worth pursuing?
 

novablue

Banned
Square Enix explained in no uncertain terms that ffxiv didn't come to Xbox because they wouldn't allow it. A software developer in this thread confirmed they were developing a game to be cross platform until Microsoft stopped it. There are many psn games cross compatible with steam and other services but no Xbox ones. There are games cross compatible between Sony and Nintendo platforms.

Honest question, what more proof could you possibly need?
Oh wait...you want proof that sony would allow cross platform on a game that isn't coming to pc? Do any games like that even exist anymore? What would be the point of making it only cross platform on the consoles and not pc? How is that even relevant to this discussion?

Of course its relevant, we are talking about all things cross-play. You couldn't provide me proof, so why quote me?

Well, we have this post from the last page. But we won't get any "proof" because there will never be a cross-platform game if one of the parties won't allow it.

I said solely XB/PS game and still you provide me no proof. Let me make it easier. Have you got proof of a game that was coming to consoles first that wouldn't support cross-play because of MS?
 

Ziffles

Member
If one's first and only attempt at cross play tanks, one may be hesitant to spend the money to try it again. Pretty basic human - and business - reaction. No reason to get all eye rolly just because I answered a question about a specific example.

I'm sorry, I wasn't really directing it towards you, more towards everyone in the thread that's brought it up. It's the standard fallback excuse and it's a poor one at that, and it's frustrating seeing it trotted out every single time.
 

i-Jest

Member
Microsoft seems the usual suspect OP but how is Nintendo on this front? Does Devil's Third, and any other Wii U game with an online component that appear of any other gaming platform, have cross-play?
 

Syriel

Member
Microsoft.

We know Microsoft for sure.

MS by the sound of things.

Microsoft.

From what developers have said publically, apparently Microsoft has a policy against crossplay.

Microsoft.

That would be Microsoft.

microsoft pretty much

It really is just MS.

It's Microsoft.

we already knew it's MS. How is this a thread?

It's because of microsoft, and fuck them so hard.

It's Microsoft, and it's well known.

Microsoft. Sucks for Rocket League players on xbox. Would be pretty cool to see some sort of competition.

Microsoft since Burnout Paradise at least.

MS did it because they needed it only, it is really not the way they do things and they won't do it again unless they feel forced to do so. They literally have an anti cross-platform policy.


There are some cross play titles on Xbox platforms. Shadowrun for the 360 comes to mind. The upcoming Fable Legends for the XBO is another.
 

novablue

Banned
Microsoft seems the usual suspect OP but how is Nintendo on this front? Does Devil's Third, and any other Wii U game with an online component that appear of any other gaming platform, have cross-play?

I think D3 online isn't cross play with D3 Wii U. Other than that, Nintendo are pretty chilled to certain extent when it comes to Cross-play.
 

BibiMaghoo

Member
Countless PS4 games play on the same online servers as the PC versions. So yeah, that would be fact. No one has ever once said "no we can't connect servers because Sony won't let us." Also fact. Pre-PSN FFXI played with PC (and eventually 360). Post-PSN DQX will be playable across Wii/WiiU/PS4/PC. Plus countless games playable PS4/PC.

Not sure how much more clear it can be.

You stated they have no rules at all. I asked you if you knew this for a fact. You could have answered in far less words with 'No'. I know there are PC/PS4 games already and that they have allowed it. That was not the question.
 

David___

Banned
There are some cross play titles on Xbox platforms. Shadowrun for the 360 comes to mind. The upcoming Fable Legends for the XBO is another.

A game that:

They are publishing themselves

Only appears on the App Store on the PC and not on Steam.

So essentially they still have complete control over both communities while that wouldnt be the case if they allowed 3rd party devs to do cross play.
 

DOWN

Banned
There are some cross play titles on Xbox platforms. Shadowrun for the 360 comes to mind. The upcoming Fable Legends for the XBO is another.

Let's not pretend their first party exclusives that are only for Windows 10 and Xbox One mean they are open with third parties like the thread is talking about SONY and Nintendo allowing. Games only from Microsoft and for their platforms only are irrelevant.
 
I said solely XB/PS game and still you provide me no proof. Let me make it easier. Have you got proof of a game that was coming to consoles first that wouldn't support cross-play because of MS?

This seems like a really oddly specific demand to make. You are basically fishing for a non-answer so you can pat yourself on the back. The number of games that come out on only XB/PS and not PC is actually pretty small. And then, of those, the number that have high profile online play is even smaller. And then, of that even smaller group, you are asking for insider information about the inner dealings of potential cross-platform play.

Yeah. Ok.
 

I checked with Microsoft to be sure Rodberg wasn't maybe just mis-hearing them. Maybe Microsoft wanted to break the barrier too?

Here's a Microsoft spokesperson saying "no," while promoting how awesome the Xbox 360's online service is:

"Xbox Live delivers the best entertainment experience unmatched by anyone else, with 35 million actively engaged members. We have a high level of expectation for our game developers to ensure that all Live experiences remain top notch. Because we can't guarantee this level of quality, or control the player experience on other consoles or gaming networks, we currently do not open our network to games that allow this cross-over capability."

i suppose that stance really hasn't changed much then
 
Top Bottom