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Why do people hate Lightning (FFXIII?)
- Thread starter Silky
- Start date
Unknown One
Member
Power doesn't equal a good character. Superman is one of the dullest superheroes out there and even he has more depth than her.
Cloud is the most beloved and well known FF character of all time. Cloud is the star of the most beloved FF and well performing Single Player FF of all time.
Lightning was the lead in the game that is seen as taking FF down a declining path and she is continued to be shoved where the Majority don't want her. Comparing her to Cloud doesn't hold water in any way.
I think people are just bitter that S-E wasted an entire console generation on Final Fantasy XIII. If we got 2-3 mainline entries this generation, as has been the case in the past, I doubt as many people would care.
Lightning wasn't horrible in FF13. She just wasn't all that good either. FF13's entire cast was pretty weak outside of Sazh and maybe Fang. I have not played 13-2, and cannot comment on that.
It's linear as shit, and holds back a lot of depth in the battle system for the first 24 hours. The last 15 hours are better, and I probably could have forgiven the poor story/characters if the entire game was like that. I hate being forced to use sets of characters in Jrpgs, when the game features a larger cast. That's one of the things I disliked about FF4, and it's even worse in FF13 (until Gran Pulse).
Lightning wasn't horrible in FF13. She just wasn't all that good either. FF13's entire cast was pretty weak outside of Sazh and maybe Fang. I have not played 13-2, and cannot comment on that.
It's linear as shit, and holds back a lot of depth in the battle system for the first 24 hours. The last 15 hours are better, and I probably could have forgiven the poor story/characters if the entire game was like that. I hate being forced to use sets of characters in Jrpgs, when the game features a larger cast. That's one of the things I disliked about FF4, and it's even worse in FF13 (until Gran Pulse).
the combat was great but most of the game was an extended tutorial with a nonsensical story and really terrible dialogue.
play XIII-2. Better game.
Wait....how was Cloud in V?
Yeah, but FF7 doesn't suck
It's perfectly fine for people to appreciate her or to enjoy the games that feature her. All other things aside, the battle system by the end of FF-XIII is completely rad. That said, if we're holding her to standards outside of "she looks visually appealing," she's never been well executed in terms of acting rationally (or irrationally in an interesting way), having coherent character agency, standing out with consistent visual styling over time, or having a personality which overcomes shortcomings in any of these areas.
Some people "hate" Lightning because she's emblematic of a serious decline in the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a long running series, and she hasn't managed to establish or maintain an appealing identity across the few games she's been featured in. The idea of a female character which is athletic and attractive, but doesn't openly pander to male interests would be very appealing if the creators didn't openly undermine that as time's gone on. They created a vessel with incredible potential for storytelling, then did nothing with it, then undermined that permise through their art, costume and character decisions. Making her antisocial and cold, followed by irrational and venomous, then aloof and distant to those around her is not a character which will engender connections with the player.
Some people "hate" Lightning because she's emblematic of a serious decline in the quality (perceived or otherwise) of a long running series, and she hasn't managed to establish or maintain an appealing identity across the few games she's been featured in. The idea of a female character which is athletic and attractive, but doesn't openly pander to male interests would be very appealing if the creators didn't openly undermine that as time's gone on. They created a vessel with incredible potential for storytelling, then did nothing with it, then undermined that permise through their art, costume and character decisions. Making her antisocial and cold, followed by irrational and venomous, then aloof and distant to those around her is not a character which will engender connections with the player.
2D sprite on loading.
a sprite of cloud was in the Anthology ver. of FFV
If the outstanding element of your character's design amounts to a larger number on the back of a baseball card, you've misunderstood your role as a writer.
The issue is how hard they(mostly Toriyama) have pushed her to stay in the limelight when many fans are just tired of her series getting sequels along with the constant reminder appearances telling us that she's still around. Toriyama as much of a hack as he is should be working on his next FF, but he can't seem to let go of this character and Square seems just content with leaving him be.
A combination of the pink hair, and the games she is the star of are largely garbage.
This video of explains the main flaw of FFXIII fairly well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47YPs-qwNQU
This video of explains the main flaw of FFXIII fairly well: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47YPs-qwNQU
Ahhhhh now I remember!
Sounds like a bunch of appearances in a bunch of games that are either designed around old Final Fantasy games or are designed to sell you content that includes stuff from old Final Fantasy games? The Aya Brea costume seems out of place, but it's not like I think Mario is a terrible character just because there is a Mario costume in Tekken Tag Tournament 2.
or a block of wood.
Yeah, XIII was ass, but at the very least XIII-2 is the start of improving what XIII is. I might be one of the few people on this forum actually excited to see what Lighting Returns is
If I recall, only Squall is the only FF protagonist even remotely close to Lightning's Personality. Cecil, Bartz, Terra, Cloud, and so on are incredibly different from Lightning, so I wouldn't say SE overuses that trope.
....idk i liked her XIII look. :/
I think the idea is that people don't want a "bad" game being represented for Final Fantasy titles, but eh subjectivity and whatever
First off, Lightning is trope-y as shit.
"I have a dark past and so I loathe myself and those around me!"
She has literally no personality whatsoever
She's worshipped for her looks.
It's less that I hate Lightning (I don't care for her) and more that I dislike her creepy, cultish following.
Lightning is just as soulless as many so-called. "Heroines" in modern anime that I also don't enjoy. The FFXIII games in general are a manuscript for a two-bit light novel, but I digress.
"I have a dark past and so I loathe myself and those around me!"
She has literally no personality whatsoever
She's worshipped for her looks.
It's less that I hate Lightning (I don't care for her) and more that I dislike her creepy, cultish following.
Lightning is just as soulless as many so-called. "Heroines" in modern anime that I also don't enjoy. The FFXIII games in general are a manuscript for a two-bit light novel, but I digress.
It's not the inclusions in the material, it's how close all the releases have been.
Take Dissidia for Example, SE knows full well that Cloud is the most popular character they have world wide, yet they didn't let that overwrite idea of WoL leading in DIssidia and force Cloud into the lead role.
012 on the other hand does exactly this for Lightning. Then we got the marketing blitz for FF XIII-2 that was constantly pushing Lightning in our face, and now we have a game that staring her again on top of all these other times shes showed up.
If these were staggered out more, and we had someone to buffer Lightning and her roles then things would be much less of a problem then they currently are.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
She's an incredibly bland character that gets way more attention than she deserves. Combine that with the fact that her games have been extremely polarizing and it shouldn't be a surprise that people hate her.
But cross promotion is not new and as referenced above, this was done just as frequently with Cloud as with Lightning when he was the 'it' boy. If you really want to see character overload. Look at the Tales games and poor Stahn and Cless. Think they have Light and Cloud totally beaten.
She has no personality
She has the same dumb wannabe-edgy facial expression on every picture, artwork and screenshot
She sucks as leader
She sucks as big sister
She is supposed to be a soldier, but wears a skirt and is designed to appeal to Otakus or teenage girls
She has a terrible, monotone voice like those puppets you had as kid which creeped the shit out of you
She is everything a strong female lead protagonist shouldn't be - Terra is just a pile of pixels but such a better character from what I've read and seen in playthroughs; Square tries to shovel her down in our throats as the next big Final Fantasy mascot-character with all those weirdo outfits and fails while doing so
Square Enix would be at a much better place without the focus on Lightning; she is just terrible and boring (!)
She has the same dumb wannabe-edgy facial expression on every picture, artwork and screenshot
She sucks as leader
She sucks as big sister
She is supposed to be a soldier, but wears a skirt and is designed to appeal to Otakus or teenage girls
She has a terrible, monotone voice like those puppets you had as kid which creeped the shit out of you
She is everything a strong female lead protagonist shouldn't be - Terra is just a pile of pixels but such a better character from what I've read and seen in playthroughs; Square tries to shovel her down in our throats as the next big Final Fantasy mascot-character with all those weirdo outfits and fails while doing so
Square Enix would be at a much better place without the focus on Lightning; she is just terrible and boring (!)
Serah is quite a bubbly character but I liked her and Noel is surprisingly cool. His English VO is quite excellent, imo.
Spot on.
This is bullshit though. It took Cloud 15 years to get what Lightning has now.
As it stands when VII released and the follow up years Cloud only had 4 games that he showed up in, two of which didn't even get highly promoted.
FF VII
Tactics (Minor apperance, SE didn't even really focus on him)
God Bless the Ring (console only if I remember right)
Chocobo Racing (again he had to be unlocked and it wasn't made into a big deal)
Cloud had to have years to let his popularity grow and become what it was before they actually really used him to push things. As it stands Lightning is and never will be or have the popularity Cloud has.
Bad series of games, this we know.
Terrible dialogue.
Typical design of every FF character/game these days which needs a new direction.
Wooden character.
Forced into everything.
Shoved down our throats as the BEST.
Overall dis satisfaction with Square .
If Square would just move on it would help and people might look a bit more fondly over her, but where she keeps popping up it really makes people exceedingly unhappy.
Terrible dialogue.
Typical design of every FF character/game these days which needs a new direction.
Wooden character.
Forced into everything.
Shoved down our throats as the BEST.
Overall dis satisfaction with Square .
If Square would just move on it would help and people might look a bit more fondly over her, but where she keeps popping up it really makes people exceedingly unhappy.
Brawly Likes to Brawl
Member
Why would people mind Stahn and Cless getting arena cameos when their games were generally liked?
I see, although it seems to me that it is less that people hate Lightning because of her many appearances in other SE games, and more that because people hate her, they dislike her appearances in those games.
However a lot of the games Lightning has been in are FF ensemble games. Take those out and all you really have is the Third Birthday costume. FFXIV is fast becoming FULL of FF references and events (shantato and xande are next) so I feel it would not be fair to include that.
I would be surprised if Noctis and XV's cast didn't deliver. XIII's biggest issue by far is that the series is written by two guys who can't write. Watanabe takes other peoples ideas and channels them into a script and Toriyama has terrible ideas. I'll let you do the math.
Nojima is a good, proven writer who's capable of actually weaving themes and nuances into his work. People say the stories in FF have always been wonky. Fine. I'm not saying Nojima is gunning for a Pulitzer, but he's head and shoulders above what we've gotten out of any XIII game thus far.
In terms of personality and character, Lightning is astonishingly worse than Cloud and Squall, and she doesn't have the benefit of coming from an era where gamers were more receptive to the cold, angsty jrpg protagonist. It's not the late 90's anymore and people have come to know better. Also, her games are perceived to be terrible, while - despite a few scattered modern dismissals of FF7/8 - Cloud and Squall's games were considered great at their time of arrival.
Lightning feels like a character that belongs in 1998.
Lightning feels like a character that belongs in 1998.
Bomber Bob
Banned
i like her!
ConteZero76
Member
Because she's just Toriyama's waifu.
She's like one of those pop singer who have no talent, who can't sing, who can't dance, and can't act. She only have a pretty face. She's only famous because of the marketing of a powerful music and/or fashion agency behind her back because her dad is the boss of said agencies. You see her ads everywhere and sick and tired of it.
UnluckyKate
Member
She was the least anoying character in FFXIII and they never knew what to do with her. She was surrounded with morrons and she never minded and never stood up to say " SHUT UP YOU ARE ALL CRAZY " but kept following them.
Then she suddenly become a godess. And then she has her own games. They are forcing her like they forced cloud into everything because she's by default, by the lack of other good characters in recent FF history, the best design they got. Also, as she's a female, you can fan service the shit out of her, ruining even more her original status of being a strong female soldier
Then she suddenly become a godess. And then she has her own games. They are forcing her like they forced cloud into everything because she's by default, by the lack of other good characters in recent FF history, the best design they got. Also, as she's a female, you can fan service the shit out of her, ruining even more her original status of being a strong female soldier
Again it's not the content that is the problem. It's how SE has handled it and the frequency.
FFXIV is a perfect example of this. Had they introduced the FF XI characters first, promoted them and then then took a break for awhile before the Lighnting stuff then it wouldn't have been nearly as bad.
However they had to use Lightning First, and then push it with the costume and everything. Same thing with 012, adding Lightning made perfect sense, they added Vaan and other leads as well. However they couldn't just add her and let her be apart of the cast, they had to stick her dead center and remove WoL in all the promotional material.
If we had Noctis, or any other buffer and Square just let her be another FF lead then things would be much different then they are now. However they stubbornly refuse to accept that Lightning isn't Cloud, Squall, Tidus, or Cecil with giant fanbases and continue to try and push her as if she was.
JetBlackPanda
Member
They wish so bad she was as popular as Cloud. I find it funny they named her lightning..
Cloud...Lightning..
Lol square plz
Cloud...Lightning..
Lol square plz
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