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Why has political ideologues made a battlefield out of gaming?

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Fahdis

Fahdis

Member
I don't get it. It's art, it's subjective and its not passive. It is made by people for people of many different thoughts, beliefs and ideas globally for consumption. But it's starting to get to me that people complain about everything. And now I'm complaining about the complaints.

Why is it that the main narrative of "what is gaming" has to be pushed from the cultural biases of people in North America? Both sides have extremities of polarized political agendas? Why can't we enjoy gaming without this drivel of divisive politics trickling into the rest of the world? I feel like I am in the plot of Injustice, only both sides are the regime that need to police my thoughts or enjoyment.

Why can't I play Harry Potter with excitement or Starfield without someone popping a vein? I could care less what people do with a platform of entertainment in their privacy. Give people options. Let your community make of your game without the ire of external agenda setting pressures. Devs should be able to make the games they want to not compromise on the vision. Its freedom of expression for the subject at hand. You don't have to like it. Don't buy it or support it but don't rob people of their enjoyment.

We've let ridiculously sensitive people hijack the industry who have no lives outside of the need to feel important by thinking they're making some sort of change in a medium thats supposed to promote all forms of creative expression, only to create an even more toxic environment.

There is so much more, from the rampant fanboyism, shady journalistic practices, corporate greed etc but those are topics for another day.

Tl;dr people suck for making gaming an agenda setting political battlefield.
 
TheInfamousKira

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
Fahdis said:
I don't get it. It's art, it's subjective and its not passive. It is made by people for people of many different thoughts, beliefs and ideas globally for consumption. But it's starting to get to me that people complain about everything. And now I'm complaining about the complaints.

Why is it that the main narrative of "what is gaming" has to be pushed from the cultural biases of people in North America? Both sides have extremities of polarized political agendas? Why can't we enjoy gaming without this drivel of divisive politics trickling into the rest of the world? I feel like I am in the plot of Injustice, only both sides are the regime that need to police my thoughts or enjoyment.

Why can't I play Harry Potter with excitement or Starfield without someone popping a vein? I could care less what people do with a platform of entertainment in their privacy. Give people options. Let your community make of your game without the ire of external agenda setting pressures. Devs should be able to make the games they want to not compromise on the vision. Its freedom of expression for the subject at hand. You don't have to like it. Don't buy it or support it but don't rob people of their enjoyment.

We've let ridiculously sensitive people hijack the industry who have no lives outside of the need to feel important by thinking they're making some sort of change in a medium thats supposed to promote all forms of creative expression, only to create an even more toxic environment.

There is so much more, from the rampant fanboyism, shady journalistic practices, corporate greed etc but those are topics for another day.

Tl;dr people suck for making gaming an agenda setting political battlefield.
Click to expand...

Why can't you play Hogwarts Legacy or Starfield without people popping a vein?

That wasn't repeating your question, I'm asking you back. It's your decision what you play and enjoy. Just Like it's other people's decision and prerogative to find different value or disservice in those same games.

Just as you're welcome to make this topic, so are others to make topics of their own choosing, with neither the condemnation or self righteousness as caveats.
 
Flutta

Flutta

Banned
clickbait GIF by ALEX KAO
 
Thyuda

Thyuda

Member
I feel like the title could also be Why has political ideologues made a battlefield out of literally anything and we'd have an endless discussion to as of why.

I'd still put a lot of blame on social media and the need to always be reachable/online.
 
killatopak

killatopak

Member
Reality is that gaming used to be marketed towards a certain demographic but has now transcended over it's initial population. It means more customers which simultaneously mean more money. However that also means new demographic that corporations need to cater to and they are too greedy and try to encompass all of the mass market which wasn't the case before. It also means values and things considered norm from the original demographic's standards are morphing to try to entice all demographics. That just invites conflict in ideals.

What also doesn't help is the way corporations did it. They didn't gradually do it in order to slowly acclimate the old customers. They swung to the new demographic in a hasty manner thinking that the old ones won't complain. They thought the customers would still be loyal to them. They didn't know that they were loyal to the content not the one who's selling them.
 
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Success

Success

Member
TheInfamousKira said:
Why can't you play Hogwarts Legacy or Starfield without people popping a vein?

That wasn't repeating your question, I'm asking you back. It's your decision what you play and enjoy. Just Like it's other people's decision and prerogative to find different value or disservice in those same games.

Just as you're welcome to make this topic, so are others to make topics of their own choosing, with neither the condemnation or self righteousness as caveats.
Click to expand...

Shut this thread down.

This is the real answer.
 
J

JoduanER2

Member
Fahdis said:
I don't get it. It's art, it's subjective and its not passive. It is made by people for people of many different thoughts, beliefs and ideas globally for consumption. But it's starting to get to me that people complain about everything. And now I'm complaining about the complaints.

Why is it that the main narrative of "what is gaming" has to be pushed from the cultural biases of people in North America? Both sides have extremities of polarized political agendas? Why can't we enjoy gaming without this drivel of divisive politics trickling into the rest of the world? I feel like I am in the plot of Injustice, only both sides are the regime that need to police my thoughts or enjoyment.

Why can't I play Harry Potter with excitement or Starfield without someone popping a vein? I could care less what people do with a platform of entertainment in their privacy. Give people options. Let your community make of your game without the ire of external agenda setting pressures. Devs should be able to make the games they want to not compromise on the vision. Its freedom of expression for the subject at hand. You don't have to like it. Don't buy it or support it but don't rob people of their enjoyment.

We've let ridiculously sensitive people hijack the industry who have no lives outside of the need to feel important by thinking they're making some sort of change in a medium thats supposed to promote all forms of creative expression, only to create an even more toxic environment.

There is so much more, from the rampant fanboyism, shady journalistic practices, corporate greed etc but those are topics for another day.

Tl;dr people suck for making gaming an agenda setting political battlefield.
Click to expand...

 
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Danjin44

Danjin44

The nicest person on this forum
Games is made by people and people have their own politics and ideology that influence their art they make, wether it’s painting, books, movies or games.

For me devs can make whatever they want, even put their own ideology or politics. At end of the day all want, all I ever wanted is interesting game, if they make interesting game with political or without I’m in.

People say games like new Saint Row, failed because it was ”woke” but to me that game failed because just fucking dry and boring game, woke or not.
 
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TheInfamousKira

TheInfamousKira

Reseterror Resettler
Thyuda said:
I feel like the title could also be Why has political ideologues made a battlefield out of literally anything and we'd have an endless discussion to as of why.

I'd still put a lot of blame on social media and the need to always be reachable/online.
Click to expand...

The real answer is probably tailoring algorithms paired with a large number of the demographic having just...gotten older and awakened to their own political identity, creating this weird vacuum where those who know three times less than professionals speak three times as loudly.

It's not like politics or agendas aren't in everything since the dawn of time, but when you're 16 in your bedroom versus 37 and surgically attached to a device which is essentially a piece of equipment enabling the user to be a soldier in a proxy war from the comfort of their own home.

Gaming is a safe Bastion for me and plenty of others. I don't mind people enjoying things I detest, and I certainly don't mind enjoying things and watching others lose their collective brain cells. But gaming is basically another arena in a culture war. It's an easy example to notice, cite, argue either for or against. Everyone has their own opinions, everyone can essentially be an expert, and the barrier for entry both into the hobby, and the debates surrounding it - are very low.

Conversely, it's a hobby you're invested in personally. It's like draw distance, my dude. I'll bet the fucking....tuba fan club probably sounds pretty tame to you, but if you were in the tubgirl fan club, you'd probably find the drama very real and palpable, because you're RIGHT IN IT.
 
gaming_again

gaming_again

Member
Because they were incentivised to do so. My great hope is that a reversion to a real interest rate environment flushes this crap away.
 
N

Nvzman

Member
Because most writers/designers/producers are condescending douchebags who feel an immense need to put their opinions into a work so they can convince the masses that their opinion is right.
Now in the past, it used to be a lot more subtle and nuanced, which is why the outrage wasn't really a thing for the most part except in extreme circumstances where it was intended to be offensive. Call of Duty 4 is actually an anti-war game, for example, and its narrative actually somewhat mocks the U.S.'s desire to invade countries for no real reason other than personal vendettas (topical subject at the time obviously). However, you would only really know this by playing the game and closely paying attention to the dialogue from characters, both main and background. But the core gameplay design ignores the message to deliver a fun game first and foremost. Because of this, most people ignore the actual message of the game and some of the more ignorant crowd claims that it "glorifies war" even though its really doing the exact opposite. Despite this, nobody complains about it really being critical towards warfare because its actually a good, fun game first and foremost, which is exactly what games should be doing in my opinion. Its also not in-your-face preaching.

The preaching is exactly what makes newer media insufferable to watch/play/read. Instead, gameplay of video games is an afterthought while the main story is riddled with generic tropes and this absolute desire to put controversial/political messages at the forefront to the point where they stick out like a sore thumb because the writers want to make absolutely sure you got the message they believe in loud and clear. The new Saints Row is a good example of this, where the story and gameplay are absolutely nothing interesting/inspired, but goddamn the writing REALLY wants you to know how capitalism is bad and being rebellious and to stick it to the rich is great. The Last of Us Part 2 I think is also a really good example of a game where you can clearly tell the writer wanted to insert his opinions in the game's world, as there is not only a pretty blatant dig towards Christianity, theres a bit of male characters in the game being mocked for their lack of understanding towards gay characters. Contrast this with the original Last of Us, which was significantly more nuanced and subtle about its message of "people are shitty" (ex: Bill as a whole being a closet gay and you later finding his lover actually hated him the whole time, Fireflies not really being so above it all, etc).

Unfortunately, as with all things, most people aren't equipped to actually explain this properly. Its not a matter of having deep subjective content in media, its how you actually handle it. I definitely feel like within the past 10-15 years its gotten progressively more in-your-face and blatant, which ends up ruining writing. Nobody wants to be preached at or given a metaphorical middle finger to the face all the time.
 
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brian0057

brian0057

Banned
It's not just gaming. Using art and entertainment as a tool for ideologies has been a tactic used for generations. Just read this amazing article by Albert Maltz, a Hollywood writer, published in 1946. He, a Communist, was lashing out against the overt political posturing of films at the time.

"The total concept, "art is aweapon," has been viewed as though it consisted of only one word: "weapon." The nature of art—how art may best be a weapon, and how it may not be, has been slurred over. I have come to believe that the accepted understanding of art as a weapon is not a useful guide, but a straitjacket. I have felt this in my own work and viewed it in the works of others. In order to write at all, it has long since become necessary for me to repudiate it and abandon it. Whatever its original stimulating utility in the late twenties or the early thirties, this doctrine—"art is a weapon"—over the years, in day-to-day wearand tear, was converted from a profound analytic, historical insight into a vulgar slogan: "art should be a weapon." This, in turn, was even more narrowly interpreted into the following: "art should be a weapon as a leafletis a weapon." Finally, in practice, it has been understood to mean that unless art is a weapon like a leaflet, servingimmediate political ends, necessities andprograms, it is worthless or escapist orvicious."
Click to expand...

It's an amazing read, and incredibly relevant in this day and age. Here's a link to the entire article: WHAT SHALL WE ASK OF WRITERS?.

Vladimir Lenin once famously said: "Of all the arts, film is the most important."
Marxists view art as a tool to further their ideology. They don't value art for art's sake. If it's not pushing some approved message, it's worthless.
 
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delfrickintree

delfrickintree

Banned
brian0057 said:
It's not just gaming. Using art and entertainment as a tool for ideologies has been a tactic used for generations. Just read this amazing article by Alber Maltz, an Hollywood writer, published in 1946. He, a Communist, was lashing out against the overt political posturing of films at the time.



It's an amazing read, and incredibly relevant in this day and age. Here's a link to the entire article: WHAT SHALL WE ASK OF WRITERS?.

Vladimir Lenin once famously said: "Of all the arts, film is the most important."
Marxists view art as a tool to further their ideology. They don't value art for art's sake. If it's not pushing some approved message, it's worthless.
Click to expand...
Ha, I'm glad someone said it. I figured it would be too controversial
 
Fatbody

Fatbody

Member
There is no “both sides are bad” with this issue. Virtually all Western games are left wing. I can’t think of a single notable game in recent recent memory with even milquetoast, Ben Shapiro-esque right wing themes. The Hogwarts controversy is completely outside of anything to do with the actual game, which has the player pronouns and trans characters. And plus, JK Rowling is an old guard feminist. The entire controversy is an intra-left wing dispute. Comparing Hogwarts boycotters to the fat bald soy-raging British dude who reached a boiling point (admittedly embarrassingly so) to years of woke diarrhea spritzed over everything is a major false equivalency. The discord/resetera trans folks have the luxury of boycotting one game. If you want to not play a game with modern left wing politics, then you literally can’t play anything western made in recent memory or for the foreseeable future.

I can’t believe so many have been gaslit into thinking the the complainers of woke are worse than the woke. You can easily avoid online people with opinions. You can’t avoid the content of the game unless you abandon the hobby completely. Or just stick to Japanese games like I do.
 
Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
Fahdis said:
Why is it that the main narrative of "what is gaming" has to be pushed from the cultural biases of people in North America?
Click to expand...

Because NA is the loudest group who care about attention online and subsequent monetization of that attention. That makes the media, both traditional media and social media, prioritize this engagement because it makes them money, and under capitalism, making money is your primary objective. It just so happens to be that controversial cultural and political topics are the kindling that sparks this engagement, and the people making money of off it don't care what it is, as long as it gets them clicks and subscriptions. This leads the rest of the world to consciously or subconsciously come along for the ride whether they like it or not.
 
Stare-Bear

Stare-Bear

Banned
Right-wing grifters get the most views (and thus money) by popping an aneurysm over anything "woke". Ben Shapiro made THREE videos about Barbie, a movie he supposedly hated so much. He made three videos because he saw that the first video outperformed all his previous videos by a wide margin.
 
D

Drew1440

Member
A lot of this you will only ever see on social media, outside of that I don't think anyone takes much notice unless it's extremely obvious.

The pronoun bit I kinda get, it has little to no effect on the gameplay and can be considered bloatware, which isn't desirable as games get more complicated to make. Writing a game off completly because of it is a bit much.

However when Sony/MS start banning users over misuse of pronouns, then I can understand the backlash.
 
StueyDuck

StueyDuck

Member
This is why God invented the skip button... like 90% of games I'm mashing that skip button

The best is dialog skip, read half the line, something about mental health skip skip skip find the sword of gorath at the gurtan camp site... done
 
Puscifer

Puscifer

Member
Thyuda said:
I feel like the title could also be Why has political ideologues made a battlefield out of literally anything and we'd have an endless discussion to as of why.

I'd still put a lot of blame on social media and the need to always be reachable/online.
Click to expand...
social media and it's consequences have been a disaster for the human race
 
delfrickintree

delfrickintree

Banned
GhostNTheBashShell said:
social media and it's consequences have been a disaster for the human race
Click to expand...
it's the systems neatest trick!

ProtoByte said:
The Marxists make every medium and institution they worm their way into a battleground. It's quite literally in their doctrine and has been for close to if not more than 100 years. None of what you see is an accident.
Click to expand...
It happens several times in life in various avenues.. what originally seems like an oversimplified, naive ignorant explanation for complex issues.. eventually makes a studious and lamenting 360 back to that original simple explanation. Sometimes you just have to let the process happen, and slowly society is becoming aware of its sickness.
 
NeoIkaruGAF

NeoIkaruGAF

Gold Member
Possibly because not a small portion of gamers are shutaway introverts with severe social, if not mental, issues that saw an opportunity to get respect and recognition in riding that wave. See what Games Done Quick and the speedrunning community at large have become in a few years.

People with no voice, no power and no significant life prospects saw a window of opportunity to gain power and have people better than them bow to their whims, and they didn’t miss it.
 
delfrickintree

delfrickintree

Banned
NeoIkaruGAF said:
Possibly because not a small portion of gamers are shutaway introverts with severe social, if not mental, issues that saw an opportunity to get respect and recognition in riding that wave. See what Games Done Quick and the speedrunning community at large have become in a few years.

People with no voice, no power and no significant life prospects saw a window of opportunity to gain power and have people better than them bow to their whims, and they didn’t miss it.
Click to expand...
Gamers: the eternal champions at being victims
 
Red5

Red5

Member
Art has always been political, poets called for revolutions, playwrights wrote about conspiracies, illustrators drew political propaganda etc... etc...

And games are made by artists, writers, illustrators, directors much like films and books will mirror some of their political ideologies whatever they are into their artwork.

Turning an artform into a battlefield isn't new and as soon as the technology in video games allowed for more expressiveness with better graphics and voice acting it was inevitable, they get more serious.

Now as for why people keep fighting on social media, well two things. Social media gave a voice to everyone with an internet connection, so conversations are going to be more crowded and we're seeing a growing cultural rift between conservative and liberal in the US that is pouring into every art medium especially with social media galvanizing people on both sides.
 
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