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[KHlover]

Yeah I know not a single person who has a Xbox One.

Same, but to be fair the only person I know who owned a PS4 sold it a month after release for a 100€ profit.

Every single one of my friends does own a gaming PC though. Pretty strong market here in Germany, but enough of thge anecdotal evidence - I'm well aware that the PS4 runs circles around the XB1 here. Hell, pretty sure even the WiiU sells better than the Xbox.

 

[Perun]

Xbox brand is not strong outside of USA and UK (two of the most relevant markets in the world). Also, initial responses to XBone were quite negative, many people turned away from the console. X360 was doing well in Europe because it launched earlier than PS3, was cheaper and (at the beginning) it had a bigger game library.

PlayStation brand is not quite as strong in USA, but much more popular worldwide. Sony also learned from their past mistakes (PS3's launch and architecture) and used XBone's failures to their advantage. PlayStation exclusives contribute to the brand's success as well.

 

[Sölf]

I don't know. I've never seen an OG Xbox in person (NO ONE had one, I remember it being part of Mc Donald's Monopoly Germany though) and everyone had an Xbox 360 when it launched. Not because Xbox was so great but because the PS3 was outrageously overpriced. They did build a lot of good will during those two years. And then... Xbox One happened.

To be fair, the PS 3 had a BluRay player and even with a price tag of 700€ (or what it was), back then it was still one of the cheapest BluRay players around. This was also one of the main reasons why I bought it (except for exclusives) and I wouldn't be suprised if that might have been true for other buyers.

 

[SkylineRKR]

It never really felt like a product for the european market. They didn't do a lot until Gamescom for Europe. That was a 3 month time period. And there was also the rest of the bullshit MS did

Playstation is a brand people knew from the past, so when Xbox wanted to screw them, they just went to their old playstation.

This was evident from the get go to me. The Xbox One looked like the OG Xbox, it was much more bulky than the white 360. And the whole TV thing was something I knew Europeans wouldn't give a fuck about. It really does seem MS prioritized the American market for whatever reason. A market they already held with the 360 so they fucked up. Were they blind? Motion and Kinect were on the way out.

I also think they have to learn to keep supporting their old system. I think Sony created lots of goodwill by going all in on Ps3 just when Ps4 was around the corner. Sony did this with Ps2 too.

 

[DragonSworne]

Just look at Europe by regions and it make senses why Xbox One isn't doing well.

Western Europe in more interested in Nintendo (france) or Playstation due to sports titles and cinematic games. Scandinavian countries are more interested in PC gaming and eastern Europe is more interested in prirating.

In each region there is already a preferred platform of choice that fit the needs.

 

[Zalman]

Microsoft totally fucking it up at the start cost them their lead from the 360 generation which meant all Sony had to do was play on the nostalgia people had for the PSX and PS2. See this commercial which, I'm gonna be honest, I absolutely love: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCI-zfGat6M

This is a common misconception. They never had the lead in the 360 generation. Not outside of the UK.

 

[Jimrpg]

Most of the TV things were never going to work in any other country than the U.S.

Heck there's lots of apps the PS3 got in the US like Netflix and NBA that Australia never got.

So there doesn't seem to be a reason to buy it if both ps4 and Xbox play similar games. It was too much for my budget to buy both.

 

[Princess Carl]

Your opinion then.

I like the Wii U (mainly for the new Nintendo games) but I don't see how anyone could say that though considering its position in power, third party support, and online gaming.

Because third party wise, games that are released broken are automatically inferior to a game that can release complete. WiiU devs know the limits of the hardware and don't try and push hyper realistic uncanny valley tech while sacrificing IQ, performance, stability, and the game itself.

WiiU first party titles are more than enough to keep the system relevant to those who have an active interest in good titles, moreso than the other consoles.

I just don't see any scenario where the xbone isn't an inferior purchase to the other two consoles, and I would know about wasting money on an xbone -_-.

 

[7threst]

To be fair, the term Eurozone is used a lot, you should know as a European But it's never used as a name for a country.

Yeah, I know about the term Eurozone, just was a little surprised it's actually used as if it's like one country, that's all

It was one person, not "MS".
And as a European I can understand how Eurozone, European Union and Europe can be hard to grasp at first. I'm sure there are similar American institutions I have no idea exist.

Ok, well if one person is the spokesperson for Microsoft I knida feel he speaks on behlaf of Microsoft, as an official representative of that company. But you are right, I can understand that Europe is pretty complicated to release in compared to the US, The different laws, languages and what not makes Europe kind of a headache for gamecompanies probably.

 

[Majmun]

PlayStation brand is not quite as strong in USA, but much more popular worldwide.

How did you come tot that conclusion? Ps2 outsold Xbox and Ps4 is outselling the XBox One in NA.

Only X360 was more popular than its concurrent Playstation console.

 

[GolazoDan]

This is a common misconception. They never had the lead in the 360 generation. Not outside of the UK.

I'm mostly talking about the UK. The commercial's a UK one.

 

[SmokyDave]

Playstation is a stronger brand, the PS4 is more powerful and cheaper. I'm not at all surprised at the result. Much as I really like my XBone, the PS4 is the better machine for Europe.

One thing I think contributes to the XBone success here in the UK is the fact that it's the better console for racers. I love Gran Turismo but by the time Kaz gets around to dropping GT7, there will have been at least four Forza titles. Given the price of steering wheels I've had to adopt one console as my racer console, and that console is the XBone.

XBOX is like Nickelback and Playstation is like Darude Sandstorm.

That works way better than it should.

 

[Onyar]

I don't know. I've never seen an OG Xbox in person (NO ONE had one, I remember it being part of Mc Donald's Monopoly Germany though) and everyone had an Xbox 360 when it launched. Not because Xbox was so great but because the PS3 was outrageously overpriced. They did build a lot of good will during those two years. And then... Xbox One happened.

Agree, actually I think just one of my nerd friends get the xbox original. Also these years started to have really nice MMORPGs like FFXI and WOW, I guess people just went to PC. Because also the original xbox was critized to be more like a minipc than a console.

 

[mike4001_]

3. 500 Euro vs 399 Euro at launch, easy decision.

LOL

why not 499 vs. 400 Euros

 

[YianGaruga]

How did you come tot that conclusion? Ps2 outsold Xbox and Ps4 is outselling the XBox One in NA.

Only X360 was more popular than its concurrent Playstation console.

That shows you that people have no problem to switch and are not as attached to the Playstation brand.

 

[Inuhanyou]

^ There are tons of people attached to the PS brand. If not it would not have sold as much as it did in the US to begin with even though it trailed the 360.

The PS3's mistakes basically destroyed a ton of Sony's mindshare, and they had to work to get that back, but that wasn't because people didn't like the PS brand. It was because Sony's fuck ups made it impossible to support them. That was the case for me. I loved the PS1 and PS2, but i could not justify even owning a PS3 until mid 2009, when the slim came out.



As an American, all i've ever heard from people is that MS's console is just built for me(Americans). But that's not true. Its built for a specific audience inside of America that wants their type of services.

I'm certainly not intriged or interested in XB1 as a product, and my 360 and original XB1 didn't get any use out of the apps, it was all about the games for me.


So OP, just imagine an ecosystem where 99% of the content outside of games is only available in another region entirely, as opposed to the competition, many of the games marketed are marketed at your tastes, and the entire concept of the system is something that does not even apply to your countries TV standards!

It would certainly make me crazy to even have such a thing marketed as if it was going to do well in my area. Especially against a competitors much more global brand.

 

[derfybzh]

The 500 euros price tag was suicide when you can find PS4 for 400.

I buy it because I prefer xbox live over PSN but most of people rather pay 400 euros for a superior hardware even if the software is a bit weaker.

PSN France store for application is desesperate empty compared to XBOX store.

People start to buy PS4 over XBOX one even old X360 buyers and it snowballs. Friends buy PS4 over XBOX one to play with friends . Now you can find it for 300 euros but it's too late.

Tier Countries was a piss poor idea too. Way to shoot yourself in the foot MS.

Now I hope that Phil Spencer will do greatness with XBOX One successor because it was a complete desaster. I like the guy and I think that he can at least help to save the brand and give it another chance when next gen comes.

 

[secondspace]

Throughout the life of the 360, continental Europe seemed to constantly be an afterthought to MS. There were always complaints about lack of apps and language options. Non-English speakers probably didn't have that early golden period of on-line with Live being fun and friendly either.

To follow that up with a new console launch focussed on the NFL, US cable TV and voice recognition for English speakers was always going to throw away any gains they'd made.

 

[Nightbird]

It marketed itself as Multimedia Console wich it wasn't here in Europe.

They screw'd up with that.

 

[oti]

Difficult?

Europe is a geographical continent.
The EU is a federation of 28 nation States.
The Eurozone are all the countries which use the euro.

Not knowing that France, Germany, Spain etc are separate countries is inexcusable.

You're right, I'm just trying to understand where those people are coming from. There's no excuse for not educating yourself, I just can see where the confusion comes from. That's all.

To be fair, the PS 3 had a BluRay player and even with a price tag of 700€ (or what it was), back then it was still one of the cheapest BluRay players around. This was also one of the main reasons why I bought it (except for exclusives) and I wouldn't be suprised if that might have been true for other buyers.

I had a friend who bought it immediately for the same reason. It's just that the rest, who cared more about games than movies, went entirely with the Xbox 360. Until the third one died the RROD or Uncharted came along.

 

[Xhorder]

Xbox one regional settings are a mess, this is a huge problem in Europe. You still can't set the language independent from the region.

Yeah this is pretty bad. M$ has no clue how annoying this is for countries where most of its people prefer the original English language instead of a bad dub.

Last gen I preferred Xbox 360 over the PS3, most of my friends too. I guess because of Live and some of the games I just preferred to play on 360. That was up till the point where M$ announced the Xbone. That was such a fiasco I actively stopped buying games for the 360 and went back to the PS3 (that I already owned).

This time I only know one guy with a Xbone and I think he bought one because he works in the games industry.

It doesn't help that the Netherlands was considered a tier 2 country with the release of the Xbone. The release last year was mostly glossed over, since anyone who really wanted an Xbone already imported one from Germany or the UK. Also the fact that M$ targets most of it's efforts towards the US means half or none of the services work over here. I think Sony (and even Nintendo nowadays) is doing a much better job in the EU.

 

[Angel_DvA]

for me :

1) It's made for the US.

2) Microsoft doesn't respect most of European countries by calling them Tiers 2/3 country.

3) Microsoft is lacking real exclusives.

4) Lacking of Japanese games or appealing game to the market ( Halo isn't really a thing beside UK when it's huge in the US and the flagship title for Microsoft )

5) Europeans are more pro-customers and still haven't digest the disaster of reveal.

6) Microsoft has still achieved nothing in those countries, 360 success was really an UK thing and most of people I know, including myself, buy one because of the superior multiplats at the time.

7) Sony have a good PR and a great reputation since the PS2 time, the most powerful/friendly/#4thegamers thing just killed everything Microsoft related in European mind.

8) The Windows 10 thing + more exclusives coming on PC won't help them either, to be honest, I think the opposite but Microsoft doesn't seems to care if they still have the US so will see.

 

[Onyar]

Microsoft totally fucking it up at the start cost them their lead from the 360 generation which meant all Sony had to do was play on the nostalgia people had for the PSX and PS2. See this commercial which, I'm gonna be honest, I absolutely love: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oCI-zfGat6M

I like how in the last generation only one of the boys play the console.

Spoiler

I really need that wipeout posters.

 

[alouette]

Europeans are having hard times trying something new. As a German, I can see this in vary situations, especially when it comes to new technologies. In fact, we Germans like to set synonyms for products we used a long time and avoid other producers if the same kind of product, even if it would be better than it's predecessor.

Every tablet is known and called as "IPad", it doesn't matter if it's from Samsung or whatever. A tissue is called "Tempo", a well known product since a long time.
Playstation was the first really popular known console, so when somebody talks about video games, it's all PlayStation.
The younger generations know about other consoles, of course. But that's the second thing in Germany: Having your own opinion is ok - but it has to be similar to opinions from others 😶.
If you're using a different product than the most other people, you're a little nerdy.

 

[Sayad]

But I would argue that last gen X360 was not specifically a lesser option. It was a different console and different ecosystem but not the lesser option. Yet it was not able to crack that market. I am wondering if it is a marketing issue or is it an issue of services?

But it did crack the market if you compare it to the original XBox, and it was no small feat coming from the PS2 generation.

 

[Perun]

How did you come tot that conclusion? Ps2 outsold Xbox and Ps4 is outselling the XBox One in NA.

Only X360 was more popular than its concurrent Playstation console.

I guess I should choose my words a little more carefully. XBone is not that far behind PS4 in the USA, which can't be said about the rest of the world (well, maybe except for UK). The first Xbox shouldn't even be considered as relevant in this context, it's the X360 that made the brand successful and the reason why XBone is not a total failure.

 

[oti]

OP, you could make a long list of MS' mistakes from reveal to release but in the end the one true fact as it stands right now is this: Xbox One just isn't part of the conversation.

 

[mike4001_]

I actually don´t understand the point of "USA central" I read countles times in this tread.

Sure there are several US only apps which are not in Europe but this is just due to regional content restrictions. On the other hand also European countries have their own regional apps.

Voice control is available in Europe
Every game is avaibable (physically and digitally)
The HDMI-in features including One-Guide are available in Europe.

So why the Amiercan-centric talk ?

 

[CTLance]

Well, the whole DRM fuckup hurt them far more in Europe since we have a far stronger awareness of privacy issues. Couple that with the continuous barrage of Snowden and NSA scandals at/after the launch and the US as a whole lost its lustre. Bad climate to try and sell a very US-centric design like that. Add to that their foot in moth moments like the tier 2 issue. They didn't catch a break the entire time through.

Plus, we're not the US. We're a bunch of countries that decided to work together. Not a single entity like they approached the market as. One of the most striking examples would be that by and large we do not have a use for set top boxes since most of the time the receivers are built into the TVs and the standard cable companies target those instead of trying to roll their own. So, no place for the XBox to overlay its fancy menus or add value. Plus, our market is far more fractured (we're a bunch of independent countries after all) so whether their EPG features would work was questionable at best (just ask Nintendo and their TVii thing). That made the whole HDMI in port a gimmick, or worse.

Also, many people keenly remember the tier 2 treatment from the 360 days. In many countries, Live was not much of a value-add beyond the online unlock. That's the crux of a relatively young loose gathering of many countries, giveaways and digital media distribution rights need to be hammered down on a per country basis, which drastically reduces the amount of wriggle room for content for a non-media company like MS. Even with all the unification progress in the last decades there's still a crapload of local laws to keep tabs on. IP laws and contracts are confusing as shit already without that added complication. That made the offerings, giveaways and feature set rather sparse for many of MS's customers. Live was pretty much unappealing outside of a small niche, heck, it arguably still is.

Plus, hey, Sony already had a good foothold from the PS2/3 days and swiftly latched onto the "we are not MS!" angle.

Speaking of which, MS marketing has been pretty crappy too, probably partially because of the aforementioned fragmentation again.

 

[Durante]

Seriously, why would you buy a Xbox One in Europe?
If you want a console, you get a PS4. Many people also (or even exclusively) game on PC. There are what, 5 (?) real XB1 exclusives out. And then there's the whole Kinect / privacy damage the brand incurred.

The only reason the 360 did relatively well in Europe was that it was mostly better in multiplats, cheaper, and had quite a lot of significant exclusives early in its life (JRPGs, Mass Effect, ...).

 

[Karu]

It's weird because XBOX One does have services catered towards the american market, but it's not like Sony has plenty of european services. They seemed to remained neutral. At the end of the day, one console doesn't offer much more than the other, but the conception remains, that XboX One has applications you don't get. It's really weird in that way.

For me personally: I was thinking about the One. A friend of mine had the original back in the day and thus it was basically our go to console during that generation. Therefore I had a weird nostalgia for the brand. While I probably would have bought the PS4 anyway becauser I was part of their ecosystem (PS3, Xperia Z1), the MCC killed any interest I had. Halo is the one franchise I'm dying to play again, but I have doubts it will happen any time soon. That's a real bummer.

 

[Bgamer90]

PlayStation brand is not quite as strong in USA, but much more popular worldwide. Sony also learned from their past mistakes (PS3's launch and architecture) and used XBone's failures to their advantage. PlayStation exclusives contribute to the brand's success as well.

How did you come tot that conclusion? Ps2 outsold Xbox and Ps4 is outselling the XBox One in NA.

Only X360 was more popular than its concurrent Playstation console.

I think what he was trying to say was that the Playstation brand isn't as dominate in the US as it is in other countries/territories; Can see how "not quite as strong" could come across as someone trying to say it's pretty weak though.

Playstation brand took a huge drop after the PS2 gen in America. It's pretty much side by side with the Xbox brand now though (47/53 sales split between the two current gen systems I think) but the outcome of last gen here in North America is still playing a role since many 360 owners haven't made the jump to current gen yet.

 

[jelly]

Even then, even with a viewing box, there were issues I recall with judder because of 50Hz broadcasting, against the XB1's 60Hz output.

Microsoft was looking worldwide...

Nope.

Microsoft come across as US centric and creatively bankrupt, they are a bit cold and calculated in search of profit whereas Sony seem more risky if you know what I mean but the end goal is the same so people tend to lean towards the more diverse and less cut throat. Xbox and 360 were trail blazers, bit late for Xbox but people still warmed to them and enjoyed the new games and features but sometime later in 360's lifespan, Microsoft was more cold and calculating, not pushing boundries, quite happy to coast. I think coasting, PS4 being cheaper, powerful and positive end of gen PS3 showed consumers the better choice, Xbox One was Microsoft at their worst.

 

[DarkMehm]

It's not only Europe. It's the rest of the world apart from the US and UK that isn't gobbling up those Xbox Ones. So if it's a situation of two countries vs the rest of the whole world, why should we be the ones to explain why we aren't buying said product? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Why are you guys buying into the Xbox brand so much? (obvious question with an obvious answer, but I wanted to reverse this whole "why aren't you buying XY thing".)

This whole "Console A has X exclusive games, Console B has Y exclusive games"-schtick before deciding to buy a console is really only exercized by us gamers in the know how and believe me when I tell you we are in the vast minority. The rest of the gaming community just buys the most hip console that everybody has and is more than happy with it. No one goes around saying "damn I'm not happy with my purchase, I really want Halo badly". For them the PS4 alone will have more good games to play for their whole lifetime, because they are not playing as much as we do to begin with.

Personally, I was a happy 360-owner for the first half of the last generation. I'm more of gamer that plays games from Japan, especially jRPGs. For me the most logical choice was to go to PS3 in the latter half of the last gen and buy a PS4 this gen. The PS4 has all the western support that the XB1 has plus all the japanese support that the XB1 doesn't have. It's the most globalized console in that aspect.

 

[geordiemp]

MS did not care about Europe.

1. UK price £ 425 at release lol

2. HDMI did not work with PAL (we have 60 / 50 HZ capable TV's tat switch on content)

3. HDMI still is not properly integrated with console (not true 50 then 60 hz, its a fudge, console still outputs 60 Hz).

4. We have 1080p TV's, and people are smart enough to recognise a 1.3 TF console with poor memory design that will struggle with native TV resolution. A lot of early games were 720p (Ghosts in particular) = massive fail.

5. MS push was about NFL and US centric apps and stuff that nobody gives a damn about

6. Digital prices in Europe area joke (look at PSN UK store, some games are £ 65, USA store and Amazon US is cheaper)

This is from a house with 2 x 360's, we now have 2 x Ps4's. Everybody I know moved, we felt screwed by MS.

 

[mike4001_]

There are what, 5 (?) real XB1 exclusives out.

And how many for PS4 ? ...

 

[Angel_DvA]

Seriously, why would you buy a Xbox One in Europe?
If you want a console, you get a PS4. Many people also (or even exclusively) game on PC. There are what, 5 (?) real XB1 exclusives out. And then there's the whole Kinect / privacy damage the brand incurred.

The only reason the 360 did relatively well in Europe was that it was mostly better in multiplats, cheaper, and had quite a lot of significant exclusives early in its life (JRPGs, Mass Effect, ...).

Pretty much my point.

 

[cilonen]

Yeah, I know about the term Eurozone, just was a little surprised it's actually used as if it's like one country, that's all



Ok, well if one person is the spokesperson for Microsoft I knida feel he speaks on behlaf of Microsoft, as an official representative of that company. But you are right, I can understand that Europe is pretty complicated to release in compared to the US, The different laws, languages and what not makes Europe kind of a headache for gamecompanies probably.

Complete aside to the thread but massive respect for your avatar. Great to see the UR love!

 

[Wil348]

Made by 'Muricans, for 'Murica. OOH-RA.

 

[Caayn]

Yeah, I know about the term Eurozone, just was a little surprised it's actually used as if it's like one country, that's all

Ah, my bad, apologies.

I live in The Netherlands too. PS4 is cheaper.

Nope, I can get a XB1 for less than a PS4, granted the price difference is so small that I feel safe with saying that it won't be the deciding factor for people.

Xbox One

Playstation 4

Made by 'Muricans, for 'Murica. OOH-RA.

 

[Chittagong]

While I was in USA I noticed that all game shop fronts have been wallpapered with Xbox One posters, and they are in a prime location in retail too. No such thing in Europe.

 

[7threst]

Complete aside to the thread but massive respect for your avatar. Great to see the UR love!

Ah thanks! Good to see there are other folks here knowing and loving UR!

 

[The Artisan]

But I would argue that last gen X360 was not specifically a lesser option. It was a different console and different ecosystem but not the lesser option. Yet it was not able to crack that market. I am wondering if it is a marketing issue or is it an issue of services?

the xbone just like the 360 before it had its selection, but it still was less powerful although that wasn't really clear, and it lacked a blu day player. Maybe not specifically but technically still a lesser option.

See this is what I dont get. Content wise nothing about Xbox one is inherently more American than Playstation. Both get all the shooters ( if that is what is considered more popular in the states) or atleast most of them. The fact that this myth is still carrying on implies that it is a marketing issue and not a content issue.

Xbone: official console of the NFL

I really don't know where you're getting this idea. Xbox to me just is an American brand but playstation a Japanese-global one, and not just because it's doing better everywhere

 

[br0ken_shad0w]

I actually don´t understand the point of "USA central" I read countles times in this tread.

Sure there are several US only apps which are not in Europe but this is just due to regional content restrictions. On the other hand also European countries have their own regional apps.

Voice control is available in Europe
Every game is avaibable (physically and digitally)
The HDMI-in features including One-Guide are available in Europe.

So why the Amiercan-centric talk ?

You know how it feels like Nintendo treats the NA market like second class citizens? That's how Europeans feel about Microsoft and the Xbox One.

 

[7threst]

You know how it feels like Nintendo treats the NA market like second class citizens? That's how Europeans feel about Microsoft and the Xbox One.

Is that really comparable though? I know NoA aren't really well liked because of weird and stupid decisions and what not, but a lot of that has to do with localisations of games and e-shop offerings right? And that is something Europeans have a whole bag of stories on too

 

[Doikor]

It got released 10 months after PS4. Doesn't allow us to use any of the voice commands on kinect (won't let us even try in English with our horrible accents and don't even dream about kinect working in Finnish). Pretty much 0 marketing while PS4 adds are all over the place. Higher price. Yeah welcome to the xbox experience here in Finland

I got one for free from work but really haven't used it for anything else then playing Killer Instinct.

 

[Mabase]

What is the reason the Xbox brand is doing badly in Europe compared to NA?

NSA-style Kinect a few months after the Snowden reveals left a VERY bad first impression in some countries.

 

[geordiemp]

I actually don´t understand the point of "USA central" I read countles times in this tread.

Sure there are several US only apps which are not in Europe but this is just due to regional content restrictions. On the other hand also European countries have their own regional apps.

Voice control is available in Europe
Every game is avaibable (physically and digitally)
The HDMI-in features including One-Guide are available in Europe.

So why the Amiercan-centric talk ?

Voice control lol....stupid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAz_UvnUeuU

TV ; yes TV is available but its crap imo

Xb1 still outputs 50 Hz PAL TV at 60 Hz, just repeating frames - why would someone with half a brain put their TV signal through a console to watch an inferior picture that will have small judder and sync issues.

NFL this, water cooler that, do you not remember ?

 

[Collateral22]

I can't even use Kinect unless I change it to the UK locale. A good amount of countries aren't even supported for it.

 

[BrokenSymmetry]

- Released one year later in Tier 2 countries
- Language tied to country (including no English Kinect in non-English countries)
- HDMI-in is useless when using built-in digital TV-tuner
- 50Hz problems