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[Zhao_Yun]

Reading this thread reminds me of how Europe used to miss out on some huge JRPGs:

Dragon Quest - Didn't reach European shores until DQVIIII in 2006 (20 years after the release of DQI)
Final Fantasy - Didn't reach European shores until FFVII in 1997 (10 years after FFI)
Chrono- First official CT release in Europe was the DS Port in 2009. Cross was never released here

 

[MoonFrog]

In a cartoon comparison, I would say that most JRPGs are Adult Swim shows and DQ games are Disney movies.

And this is the thing about the American JRPG audience, it typically wants the former rather than the latter and the people looking for the latter sort of thing are usually not looking for RPGs. Those are for the super nerds. Except Pokemon.

A lot of the JRPG is looking for story, a stylish world, and/or sexy/cool/badass characters in some sort of teenage power fantasy/melodrama and I think the assumption is that DQ is bland and boring and quaint because it is cute and family friendly, when it actually does a lot of interesting things (for a game in particular) with story and it has plenty of cool characters.

 

[duckroll]

Hell, it's arguably harder now than it was in the late 1990's.

Is that why Persona 5 sold like ten times more now than Persona 1 in the late 1990s?

 

[BocoDragon]

Dragon Warrior was used because it had to be. The Dragon Quest name was unavailable at the time. But I assume what you're really referring to here is the way they redid the art, and that's definitely true.

Exactly.

Hell, it's arguably harder now than it was in the late 1990's.

Sad but true.

Is that why Persona 5 sold like ten times more now than Persona 1 in the late 1990s?

thinking-emoji

 

[Ydelnae]

I don't think the Slime design as a mascot is the issue here when we have atrocities like the Minions or McDonald's Happy, which feature very similar designs, being really popular among children specially.

Clearly the solution is to make slime scream and spout nonsense instead of simply smiling and bouncing.

 

[Pancake Mix]

Reading this thread reminds me of how Europe used to miss out on some huge JRPGs:

Dragon Quest - Didn't reach European shores until DQVIIII in 2006 (20 years after the release of DQI)
Final Fantasy - Didn't reach European shores until FFVII in 1997 (10 years after FFI)
Chrono- First official CT release in Europe was the DS Port in 2009. Cross was never released here

Sort of, but DQ and FF did get spin-off releases in Europe before that.

Yes, that is the Warrior title above, in 1998. That's the UK box.

The German box said Dragon Quest.

Final Fantasy is better.

You're not wrong.

 

[notaskwid]

Final Fantasy is better.

 

[ULTROS!]

Is that why Persona 5 sold like ten times more now than Persona 1 in the late 1990s?

When people bring up "coz the number makes them think it's a sequel or sumthin to a game that was never released in English", I ask them how did Persona 3 onwards become more popular and that game was released in the mid-late 2000s.

I don't think it's the numbering that's problem, maybe it's how the way it looks? I asked my brother why he doesn't like DQ and he thinks it looks incredibly generic except for VIII.

 

[Zhao_Yun]

Sort of, but DQ and FF did get spin-off releases in Europe before that.

Ture, I forgot about those. Doesn't make it less sad though
I am pretty sure I would have played more DQ games than just VIII if the preceding games would have been released here. Now I can play most of them, but I don't have the time. Looking forward to XI though.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

I want to play more DQ games, but this year is FF's 30th anniversary so it might have to wait until next year.

 

[Ridley327]

Enix and later Square-Enix has not done a good job of managing the series in the west. Some of this is a result of them having too high of expectations for it: they see what it does in Japan and think that the west is going to match it without having to put in the work to show why it's so appealing, resulting in sales that are more than fine for the genre but well under the record breaking success that it has in its home country. As a result, we wind up with a rather patchy release record for even mainline titles, and while that's largely corrected itself over time (save for DQX's fate), it's still not a great look to anyone trying to get into it and seeing just how long it took to get key titles.

The other element working against it is that compared to a lot of other RPG franchises, there's really not a lot to the presentation that's very inviting to what would become standards for the genre. This was something that was addressed for the western release of DQVIII to much acclaim, but considering how the series operates, I feel like that it's safer to say that there are more DQVIII fans than there are DQ series fans, which explains a whole hell of a lot about why the spinoffs sell so poorly over here. With DQXI forgoing VA in even the larger story cutscenes, it continues to send that message that it's not up to the standards that a lot of gamers are not only used to, but feel like should be mandatory. And it's hard not to agree with that assertion, as we're seeing companies like Nintendo embrace that level of presentation with Fire Emblem and Xenoblade, and even Square-Enix sees it fit to give less popular series like Bravely Default and Nier a good deal of production values to better suit those needs.

 

[killatopak]

Very old school.

Things were going the action route especially in the PS3 era.

People bought the DQ8 for the demo of FFXII so I think most of the mind share was on FF at the time.

 

[KtSlime]

When people bring up "coz the number makes them think it's a sequel or sumthin to a game that was never released in English", I ask them how did Persona 3 onwards become more popular and that game was released in the mid-late 2000s.

I don't think it's the numbering that's problem, maybe it's how the way it looks? I asked my brother why he doesn't like DQ and he thinks it looks incredibly generic except for VIII.

Yeah, numbering didn't seem to hurt Final Fantasy.

Ironically, VIII is the most generic of the series.

 

[duckroll]

I don't think it's the numbering that's problem, maybe it's how the way it looks? I asked my brother why he doesn't like DQ and he thinks it looks incredibly generic except for VIII.

It's neither really. The reason DQ is less popular outside of Japan (I won't say not popular because, like I said, DQIX apparently sold over a million!) is because it hasn't really been a consistent brand outside of the US. Releases are staggered, handled by different publishers, there's no concentrated marketing for the brand.

It's not like Persona REALLY blew up with Persona 3 either. It wasn't until Persona 4 when the popularity really started climbing, And even then, I don't think anyone would say Persona was a notable brand in the west until Persona 5 numbers came in. Growing a brand takes time and effort.

 

[1upsuper]

Final Fantasy is better.

Final Fantasy has some high highs but DQ has never gone nearly as low as FF's lows. DQ is the far more consistent product.

 

[Stefarno]

How well did the Dragon Quest Heroes games sell anyway?

In the UK, not very well at all - DQH did 3,100 first week and DQH2 did far worse than that (didn't even make the top 40 IIRC).

 

[Pancake Mix]

Is that why Persona 5 sold like ten times more now than Persona 1 in the late 1990s?

Well, Persona 1 was 1996 and Atlus in particular was tiny. They got more popular later, but Persona making it big in the west in 2008-2009 felt like it was almost bucking a trend.

I just mean that certain anime shows (Pokemon, Sailor Moon, Dragon Ball Z) were starting to appear on normal kid's television stations, Final Fantasy was selling close to 10 million, stuff like Soul Calibur and Dead or Alive 2 was a big deal. There was a lot more competition then compared to now too. Stuff like Xenogears and Star Ocean 2 was getting released, hell even Sony was releasing stuff like Legend of Legaia and Legend of Dragoon around that time.

Persona and Tales Of are bigger in the West now than they were in the 1990's, but there was a plethora of anime reaching the west at the turn of the millennium. Lots of games, tv shows, etc.

 

[Tarextherex]

I only played VI (DS) and it was honestly the epitome of every negative stereotype with the genre. Very bland environments (light green plains, grey mountains, yellow deserts... zzz), plot that rehashes past games(seriously this is totally a poor man's Chrono Trigger), very vague indications on where to go(and getting there isn't fun at all due to the obscene amount of random encounters), unsatisfying, grindy progression system(you unlock classes 15-20 hours into the game ffs. It's literally the equivalent of what if Chrono Trigger gave you magic only after you defeat Magus). When you got people actually ranking this relatively high compared to the rest of the series, well I can't imagine anything to be worse than that really. Meanwhile basically every other major JRPG series has very unique elements to them. That's probably what turns people off from DQ, when the game looks too much like what you already played, you'd rather seek for new experiences elsewhere. Going to the next village to sell your bronze sword to get a silver sword while enduring a bunch of random encounters just isn't interesting since like 1991


Is VIII anything like that? I heard a lot of good things about it but when some people rank the blandness that was VI above it that's when I get serious doubts about the rest of the series, makes me lose motivation to give it a second chance when there is so much more fresh experiences out there. Also is the 3DS version good

 

[BHK3]

It's not available on any modern day home systems. My first introduction was DQ8 on ps2, loved the game to death, was sad that no other games ever came out. Found out they were all handheld titles and then some mmo japan only thing on the wii. If I was a kid than the DS would be the greatest console ever created, since I could own and play every single DQ game while my parents went grocery shopping and on car rides. I never knew about DQVII on ps1 because that came out in 2000, the same year I got FFIX, the single greatest RPG to be ever conceived by mortal men.

But, unfortunately, I'm an adult with a car, a tv, a ps4 and a computer. If any of the DQ games were on PC, or PS3, or PS4, they would sell boatloads imo. Yea I can still get a 3DS and play DQVIII, but why when I can play it on my 17 year old ps2 and it'll look better too.

 

[Ydelnae]

Very old school.

Things were going the action route especially in the PS3 era.

People bought the DQ8 for the demo of FFXII so I think most of the mind share was on FF at the time.

I seem to recall that DQVIII did slightly better in Europe and we didn't get the FFXII demo. At least I don't remember my copy of the game including the demo, even though I did not buy it day one. People bought it because the presentation was interesting, it was the first game in the series that we got and the word of mouth was really good. Nearly everyone in my high school who had a PS2 and average interest in role games was talking about the game when it launched.

 

[III-V]

Dragon Warrior was the first game I ever beat as a child. I have really fond memories of playing that game with my father. I remember playing and beating DWII thru DWIV when they came out, and then the series, at least for me, seemingly disappeared.

The game now seems completely unrecognizable.

 

[Bitanator]

I don't think the Slime design as a mascot is the issue here when we have atrocities like the Minions or McDonald's Happy, which feature very similar designs, being really popular among children specially.

Clearly the solution is to make slime scream and spout nonsense instead of simply smiling and bouncing.

They do spout nonsense though haha, play the Rocket Slime series

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

They do spout nonsense though haha, play the Rocket Slime series

There's more than one Rocket Slime game?

 

[Zhao_Yun]

I seem to recall that DQVIII did slightly better in Europe and we didn't get the FFXII demo. At least I don't remember my copy of the game including the demo, even though I did not buy it day one. People bought it because the presentation was interesting, it was the first game in the series that we got and the word of mouth was really good. Nearly everyone in my high school who had a PS2 and average interest in role games was talking about the game when it launched.

Yeah, Europe didn't get the FFXII demo back then, but me and my friends who were all into JRPGs bought it just because we knew that the DQ series was huge in Japan and we were glad that we finally had the chance to play one.

I think that while it made sense for SE to release DQIX on the DS, it really didn't help the series in the West. A lot of my friends who enjoyed DQVIII didn't play IX because they don't play on Handhelds. DQIX on a home console could have strengthened the momentum of the series in the West after VIII imo.

 

[VariantX]

The games are old-fashioned as fuck. Nothing wrong with a well crafted turn-based experience. But like 2D games in the mid 90's they're not what's in. Hard to push a turn-based game without jazzing it up the way the persona series does with incredible presentation in the menus.

 

[KtSlime]

There's more than one Rocket Slime game?

3, and a Smartphone/LINE app.

 

[Ridley327]

There's more than one Rocket Slime game?

The one we got in the US is actually the second one. We never got the ones on GBA and 3DS.

 

[duckroll]

Persona and Tales Of are bigger in the West now than they were in the 1990's, but there was a plethora of anime reaching the west at the turn of the millennium. Lots of games, tv shows, etc.

And today you have the biggest digital streaming platforms like Netflix and Amazon buying into anime and not just carrying new shows but producing brand new ones, just like home video companies in the US did in the 00s before they imploded. Kaguyahime was nominated for Best Animated Film. There are more anime film festivals in the west now with film premieres than ever before. Anime conventions also have higher attendance each year.

Disgaea 5 on Switch also sold REALLY well in the West, outselling the PS4 version and is apparently one of NISA's best selling titles ever. So... it doesn't seem like "anime" is harder to sell today, it's just how you sell it.

 

[MoonFrog]

I do think V could've done well in the SNES JRPG market in particular. It is a more character oriented game than some of the DQs and does interesting things with story structure with the time skips and all.

I think it would have sat well among FFIV and VI, Earthbound, and ChronoTrigger.

I think DQVI would be more overlooked among late SNES JRPG.

But, being on SNES would've set some groundwork, even if DQVII was really not the type of JRPG America wanted after FFVII and definitely not at its production values at that late date. So that would've still been a struggle.

I think DQVIII came in as more of the kind of game the JRPG audience here would want, with voice-acting, an orchestrated score, and a focus on the core party members. It also managed to transition the sort of map and town and dungeon sturcture of SNES/PSX JRPGs to PS2 while still looking really good!

 

[FingerBang]

When I was in high school, all I did was playing jrpgs. I remember reading about Dragon Quest VII and wanting to play it, but it never made it to Europe and I couldn't. I remember trying it a few years later and being disappointed since it was... bland?

It didn't really have anything special to make me want to keep playing, the combat system was as basic as it could be and the characters and the story were forgettable. I was already out of my rpg loving phase though, so that's probably why the game failed to impress me.

But I wonder, had I had the game when I was young(er), would I now be a fan of the series? Maybe. XI looks cool but I don't know if I would enjoy it.

 

[Bitanator]

There's more than one Rocket Slime game?

Three of them, blame Reggie for us not getting the GBA and 3DS game

 

[1upsuper]

There's more than one Rocket Slime game?

There are 3! GBA, DS, and 3DS.

 

[notaskwid]

Dragon Warrior was the first game I ever beat as a child. I have really fond memories of playing that game with my father. I remember playing and beating DWII thru DWIV when they came out, and then the series, at least for me, seemingly disappeared.

The game now seems completely unrecognizable.

That's probably the least a 25+ years running series ever changed tbh

 

[ULTROS!]

It's not like Persona REALLY blew up with Persona 3 either. It wasn't until Persona 4 when the popularity really started climbing, And even then, I don't think anyone would say Persona was a notable brand in the west until Persona 5 numbers came in. Growing a brand takes time and effort.

This makes me more curious how DQXI will perform in the West. DQVIII started building up the brand and IX outperformed VIII. But the only downsides is that the spinoffs didn't do so hot (dunno about Builders, but apparently it has done 1.1m WW).

 

[Stefarno]

It's neither really. The reason DQ is less popular outside of Japan (I won't say not popular because, like I said, DQIX apparently sold over a million!) is because it hasn't really been a consistent brand outside of the US. Releases are staggered, handled by different publishers, there's no concentrated marketing for the brand.

It's not like Persona REALLY blew up with Persona 3 either. It wasn't until Persona 4 when the popularity really started climbing, And even then, I don't think anyone would say Persona was a notable brand in the west until Persona 5 numbers came in. Growing a brand takes time and effort.

I think Persona has DQ beat there - IIRC in Europe Koei published P3 & FES, Square Enix published P4, Ghostlight published P3P and the PSP version of P2, Atlus published P1 on PSP, NISA published P4G and PQ, Zen United published P4A, Sega published P4AU and Deep Silver published P5.

 

[Shahed]

It can take time to build and grow an audience. They released a well received mainline entry on console. It's the only one to get a worldwide release and they never followed it up

 

[duckroll]

I think Persona has DQ beat there - IIRC in Europe Koei published P3 & FES, Square Enix published P4, Ghostlight published P3P, NISA published P4G and PQ, Zen United published P4A, Sega published P4AU and Deep Silver published P5.

That's why when we talk about Persona 5 sales outside of Japan we just assume they're all in America.

 

[III-V]

That's probably the least a 25+ years running series ever changed tbh

Look at the box art from NES DW to today's DQ. It looks two worlds away in terms of theme.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

I do think V could've done well in the SNES JRPG market in particular. It is a more character oriented game than some of the DQs and does interesting things with story structure with the time skips and all.

Oh yeah, those time skips made the game feel a lot longer than it is. In my LTTP thread people said it's about as long as a FF and I was like no way, but then I checked my save. I could've sworn it was like 70hrs.

 

[Zhao_Yun]

I think Persona has DQ beat there - IIRC in Europe Koei published P3 & FES, Square Enix published P4, Ghostlight published P3P, NISA published P4G and PQ, Zen United published P4A, Sega published P4AU and Deep Silver published P5.

I think it's not a secret that Persona's success in Europe isn't because of Atlus, but despite of them. Being a MegaTen Fan in Europe was really frustrating (thank god it's better now with the Deep Silver deal).

 

[MoonFrog]

Curious what a V PS2 USA could've done for the series.

I started with VIII as a kid and transitioned to the DS remakes, IX, iOS 1-3, and finally VII&VIII 3DS, but a lot of people, going by posters here, quit the series after VIII because they didn't want to play on DS.

 

[Aeana]

That's probably the least a 25+ years running series ever changed tbh

Congratulations, this is the most disingenuous post I've ever seen in my life. This is not what DQ11 looks like for the majority of people who will play it. 2D mode is just a bonus.

 

[kamineko]

Others have said it:

Intermittent releases, ineffectual marketing, and an unfortunate perception of indifference to the western market.

I mean, have they even announced a western localization yet? It's like they aren't even trying.

Westerners like Toriyama, westerners enjoy turn-based JRPGs. It should sell alright here. But half the time it feels like getting excited for a DQ release is just a set-up for disappointment because you never know if you'll ever even get to play the game.

I fan-patched V and VI, had a great time. But you can't expect the average consumer to mess with that

 

[Kuga]

My appetite for long and grindy JRPGs has lost its charm for me. It was easy to spend dozens of hours in DQ6 or something during the teenage years but now I have no patience for such long games.

Frankly, aside from its "old school" charm and novelty, the series feels antiquated to me.

 

[M3d10n]

In my opinion, Dragon Quest benefits from a lot of nostalgia-turned-culture that never formed outside Japan for various reasons, a big one being it barely getting proper releases outside Japan during most of the series existence.

 

[shark sandwich]

It's boring as hell. Boring gameplay, boring stories, writing that belongs in a children's cartoon.

A better question is why these games are popular in the first place. I've been a fairly hardcore JRPG fan since the early 90s, and I've never made it past maybe 5-10 hours in the several DQ games I've played.

 

[Cheerilee]

I think the franchise got off to an ideal start with Dragon Warrior 1 on the NES (overproduced and given away for free = great advertising), but it couldn't match the Japanese success because you can't always replicate a phenomenon. The game just didn't resonate with large numbers of American kids the same way it did with Japanese kids. But it did resonate with some American kids, and (after Dragon Warrior 1) it was the NES RPG series, and sold better than most NES RPGs.

Then Enix (in America) stumbled and missed the boat on the RPG superconsole which was the SNES, because their expectations were set too high, and if they weren't a phenomenon, they didn't care.

Dragon Quest missed it's chance to become Final Fantasy 7, but that was never going to happen because Final Fantasy was trying to push the boundaries of flashy presentation while Dragon Quest tried to step away from flashiness. They tried to ride in on FF7's coattails and sold better than most PSX RPGs (despite their strategic blunders), but that still wasn't good enough for them.

They put a massive effort into DQ8 on the PS2, and they sold better than most PS2 RPGs, but again, anything less than a phenomenon is seen as a failure for Dragon Quest.

The DS games sold great. Fail. Not even worth bringing them over.

This is not a series that ever puts in the work required to build a brand (although they're plenty happy to sabotage it repeatedly), and it wins in spite of itself (why else do we even have threads concerned for the series?), but those wins will never be enough in a world where Dragon Quest became a phenomenon on the other side of the ocean, and Final Fantasy and Pokemon became phenomenons over here, so people ask "Why can't Dragon Quest be a phenomenon in America too?"

I don't buy that a few people being turned off by Akira Toriyama's art is a real factor, seeing as how Chrono Trigger is widely regarded as one of the greatest RPGs of all time, and DBZ is as mainstream as anime gets in America. And I refuse to believe that Tetsuo Nomura's belts and zippers are the key to success over failures like Akira Toriyama and Yoshitaka Amano. Is the only acceptable-by-Americans alternative to Nomura's belts and zippers Motomu Toriyama's waifu Lightning? Because if it is, I don't know if I want to live on this planet anymore.

 

[notaskwid]

Congratulations, this is the most disingenuous post I've ever seen in my life. This is not what DQ11 looks like for the majority of people who will play it. 2D mode is just a bonus.

Doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The point is that this series is completely attached to a nostalgia as a major selling point. Nostalgia that largely doesn't exist for this games in the west, so no wonder Square Enix fumbles trying to sell it when the main reason people buy it is gone.

 

[MoonFrog]

I mean, have they even announced a western localization yet? It's like they aren't even trying.

They have . No date or platforms, but they announced it for the west as they released it in Japan.

 

[Brandson]

I haven't played every DQ game, but I've played a lot of them. I've generally enjoyed them, but not loved them. My major complaint is how slow everything is, from battles, to menus, to saving the game. I didn't like how slow it was way back on the NES, but I put up with it because the whole game experience was so novel then. By PS2 time, I really started to hate that about DQVIII. I don't need a total DQ revolution, but let me get to the core game experience faster please.