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Why on Earth did Respawn think no custom Titan loadouts was a good idea?
- Thread starter D3VI0US
- Start date
Conkerkid11
Member
Wow, look at all the game designers in this thread.
Makes you wonder why Call of Duty tries to change as little as possible from entry to entry.
PROh1bited
Banned
I didn't enjoy the beta, but I'm loving the game so far. The game is much more balanced than before, and the maps all feel good. Sorry that the game is a disappointment to you.
Kagoshima_Luke
Gold Member
I prefer Titanfall 1 to the sequel. 2 is great, but the original was fantastic, due to amazing maps and stuff like being able to customize titan loadouts.
Also, where's my Japanese voice Titan OS?
Also, where's my Japanese voice Titan OS?
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
You're forgetting where you are.
Sounds like people wanted Titanfall Too, not Titanfall 2.
Correct. We did.
We wanted Titanfall with:
Slide added...check
better graphics...check
campaign...check
more MP content...check
Not all of the above PLUS
fucked up new rodeo system
shitty 3 lane based maps
2 weapon slots instead of 3
hero based Titans
removal of the Titan timer
slower movement
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Actually, you can tell by the silhouette exactly which tactical ability someone has.
I prefer it to TF1's, tbh. They were clearly looking to use teamwork to extend the life of Titans. Well, I like it when your teammates help you out
Translation: "We didn't want them to go back and make any changes because all changes are bad."
The maps are the only thing I would agree with, though they are growing on me.
PeregrinSe7en
Member
exactly
let them form their own studio and make their own tf knockoff
dont keep me waiting
With Blackjack! And hookers!
ElBoxyBrown
Banned
Titan fights didn't get varied as time went on.
Knowing what to expect was possible in the first game, you just had to use your eyes, it wasn't rocket science.
Titanfall:
3 Titans x 6 weapons = 18 main combinations not to mention shield, ordinance, and kit/boost options further increasing the variance.
Titanfall 2:
6 Titans with just ordinance and kit/boost options.
Sure not many options at all.
grandwizard
Member
I didn't play much of Titanfall 1 past launch and have gotten into Titanfall 2 now. For my part I like changes like this that seem to be turning off fans of the original. There's a good variety of Titans already and I like just seeing one and calling it out to my teammates and we know what kind it is. They're easily readable from far away as well; I know that its the one with the sword, the one with the chaingun, the sniper one, etc.
This also applies to the pilots with the way the abilities work now too which I also like. It's harder due to the speed and size of them, but I can still see that the skinny robot is a stim player, the bulky dude has A-wall, the one with the fur collar is going to cloak, etc.
Edit: I also really like the Titans not having regenerating shields by default. I guess this makes them 'feel like they're made out of paper' but to me it makes it way more balanced between Pilot and Titan. Even if I'm doing good I don't want my Titan to last forever because I like the Pilot gameplay better than it. And as a Pilot player when the shields are everywhere it discourages me from even attacking a Titan knowing they can just back off and regen, rather than now where I can punish them with good amounts of damage with my anti titan weapon.
This also applies to the pilots with the way the abilities work now too which I also like. It's harder due to the speed and size of them, but I can still see that the skinny robot is a stim player, the bulky dude has A-wall, the one with the fur collar is going to cloak, etc.
Edit: I also really like the Titans not having regenerating shields by default. I guess this makes them 'feel like they're made out of paper' but to me it makes it way more balanced between Pilot and Titan. Even if I'm doing good I don't want my Titan to last forever because I like the Pilot gameplay better than it. And as a Pilot player when the shields are everywhere it discourages me from even attacking a Titan knowing they can just back off and regen, rather than now where I can punish them with good amounts of damage with my anti titan weapon.
PeregrinSe7en
Member
lol
joecanada
Member
Yeah scorch is the one sticks out for sure. Even in single player it's like nope.
Mobius and pet octopus
Member
It's a great idea. More than just "hero shooters" limit the amount of customization in favor of creating diversity. Full customization is not only overrated, it's pretty stupid and limits design in a lot of ways and still often fails to remain balanced.
Nice explanation. Makes sense.
Interficium
Banned
Impossible for real devs to compete with gaf armchair devs' perfect 20/20 hindsight.
Alx
Member
I loved the first Titanfall to death, but titan fights in Titanfall 2 are much, much better. In the original titans were basically either shooting at each other or running away. There were few defensive moves, since most players were packing smoke as a protection against pilots.
Titans in Titanfall2 have traps, shields, teleportation, incendiary abilities, flight, ... It's much more diversified and strategic.
One could miss some of the pilot-titan interaction of the first game (especially rodeos), but the titans themselves are a huge improvement. And being able to customize them would break all balance, and in the end all players would gravitate towards the most powerful combination.
Titans in Titanfall2 have traps, shields, teleportation, incendiary abilities, flight, ... It's much more diversified and strategic.
One could miss some of the pilot-titan interaction of the first game (especially rodeos), but the titans themselves are a huge improvement. And being able to customize them would break all balance, and in the end all players would gravitate towards the most powerful combination.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
I really miss my Stryder with auto-quad rockets :-(
I gotta agree, I'm not really feeling the "hero Titan" angle... but it probably does make balancing the number of new abilities much easier.
Edit: I hear all the arguments in favor of "predictability" and "readability" but I disagree that this is the only way to achieve that goal.
In Titan Fall, it was largely possible to "read" your opponents capabilities simply by looking at them. There were some abilities that you COULDN'T read, and Respawn could have simply added some visual or audio cues to relay that info to other players who spot the mech.
Edit2: they could also handle any OP combinations by simply disallowing any combos that worked to well.
I do think this approach would be much harder to balance, but I think it makes for a better TitanFall game.
Agreed. I think the addition of more "social" or "identity" features down the line would be really fun (Overwatch style emotes or voice lines to your team mates, etc.). I hope that's something Respawn can consider and is viable for the business model.
SmartWaffles
Member
If you can't move fast in Titanfall 2 it is probably your problem.
LuvOfThaGame
Banned
This is why...
I don't recall playing TF1 and thinking 'I wish I could read the loadout of this enemy titan'. That was not an issue in the first game.
Such heavy handed game balancing rarely leads to a better game. Especially if the developer was trying to address something that was not an issue in the first place.
Saying that it makes the game more accessible is probably true, but you are underestimating the ability of the gamers to learn the mechanics of the games that they like to play. Ultimately, removing some player choice is only reducing the longevity of your game.
Such heavy handed game balancing rarely leads to a better game. Especially if the developer was trying to address something that was not an issue in the first place.
Saying that it makes the game more accessible is probably true, but you are underestimating the ability of the gamers to learn the mechanics of the games that they like to play. Ultimately, removing some player choice is only reducing the longevity of your game.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think anyone actively thinks it, that doesn't necessarily make it less useful in the heat of battle, y'know?
Your choice of wording here is pretty ironic. Aren't you belittling/downplaying counter arguments by describing them that way?
Chaos2Frozen
Member
Ronin could use a buff
For me Ronin could use a weapon with more range and a Vortex Shield and it would be a lot more effective.
Surface of Me
I'm not an NPC. And neither are we.
You have several people on this page going with the old fallacy of "Lol if youve never made an X you can never criticize an X!". Calling people out on that shit isnt the same as dismissing legitimate criticism.
As for the topic at hand I really agree with OP. Readability is good, but not end all be all. You could tell if a Titan was small, medium, or heavy in the first immediately and plan accordingly. You could also easily identify its primary weapon. The extra abilities that you didnt know added a lot to having to think on your feet in the middle of battle, which I found exciting. Going the hero design strategy with a limited pool of heroes, some who have very similar abilities, leads to people learning and exploiting easy strats to take on certain titans. U dont think I need to mention the amount of Legions and Tones you see.
I bet TF2 would love to have as many players as TF1 did at launch about now. There is a reason the beta turned off many hardcore and casual fans of the first.
Bumblebeetuna
Member
Not in TF1 it sure didn't end up that way. I spent over 500 hours on Xbone mostly in LTS and you saw all kinds of cool combinations in there. It really added variety to the game that is missing now. Before you could see an enemy Stryder but he could have anything for a weapon. He could have a railgun and be a lot like Northstar in TF2. Or he could have a chaingun and pester enemies, ducking in and out with his speed. Or he could have a triple threat and rain damage on you. Or maybe a 40mm cannon and try to out maneuver you while peppering you with shots. Or the arc/particle wall combo with extra speed.
And the best part was it was all incredibly balanced. Now instead of all that, you see the Stryder and it's either a Ronin who is going to come try to come gun kata you to death or a Northstar who has to stay back or get wrecked, etc etc. I understand why they added a bunch of new weapons and abilities and unlocks, the gaming world needs a constant bar to fill up and unlocks to earn and the original TF didn't have enough. But this is an area where they went overboard with streamlining the game for casuals imho. I do still enjoy it, but idk if it has another 500-600 hours of longevity the original had, especially as I mostly play LTS and it's just more predictable now with less variety and room for player uniqueness. Plus good lord the maps are bad in pilot modes but some of them are downright god awful in LTS.
Pegasus Actual
Member
I really enjoyed Last Titan Standing in the original. And if you had asked me before the new game came out what I wanted I would have said more customization. More modules. More slots to tweak. More more more. But let's face it, that's a nightmare to balance, and it pushes people into a few min-max type of loadouts.
In Titanfall 2, there's a lot more to do as far as maximizing your abilities, more thought that needs to be put into your team composition and more communication that needs to happen with your teammates to engineer favorable matchups.
This game is simply better than the original. And better than the other shooters out this holiday season. I mean even if you really miss the gameplay of the original, I don't see how you could play this for a few hours and not think it's a really good game in its own right at worst.
In Titanfall 2, there's a lot more to do as far as maximizing your abilities, more thought that needs to be put into your team composition and more communication that needs to happen with your teammates to engineer favorable matchups.
This game is simply better than the original. And better than the other shooters out this holiday season. I mean even if you really miss the gameplay of the original, I don't see how you could play this for a few hours and not think it's a really good game in its own right at worst.
I could not tell what weapon an enemy Titan had 90% of the time, until I saw it shoot.
Warablo
Member
I feel the same way. Especially for how good the mech feels. The pilot movement is excellent as well. Didnt even need to touch the settings.
So wouldn't it be a reasonable design choice to simply IMPROVE on the readability of the Titan Weapons. Rather that scrapping customization altogether.
I'm going to be very interested to see where the game lies in say 2 - 3 months time population wise. I loved the first game to bits but unfortunately it just didn't resonate with a lot of people as sad as that is. Especially on PC which is where I am. I do empathise with folks not liking the changes, I was exactly the same with the beta, but once I accepted that it just wasn't Titanfall 1 I started loving the hell out of it for what it was.
Castef
Banned
THIIIIIIS!
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
That doesn't mean everyone is doing that, and the post didn't exactly differentiate.
The Freeman
Member
I was firmly against it to start with, but am now coming round to it slowly.
If only because it stops players all choosing the same bloody load outs. We all remember the Stryder with Arc cannon from the first, right?
If only because it stops players all choosing the same bloody load outs. We all remember the Stryder with Arc cannon from the first, right?
Stop players from CHOOSING the same loadouts by....
FORCING everyone to use the same 'loadouts'
This game appears to be resonating with fewer people. Whether it's a gameplay design issue or solely related to timing we'll never know... unless it's one of those rare games that gains popularity over time.
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
It's much better for balancing and gives the Titans more 'character' IMO.
As a reference I put 100's of hours into TF1, and so far have put in about 60 hours into the MP of TF2, and absolutely love it (much more than TF1, apart from some of the maps).
I'm looking at you Crash Site and Complex, oh and Homestead.
..actually, I can't wait for DLC maps to drop: like Angel City, Fracture and Lagoon
As a reference I put 100's of hours into TF1, and so far have put in about 60 hours into the MP of TF2, and absolutely love it (much more than TF1, apart from some of the maps).
I'm looking at you Crash Site and Complex, oh and Homestead.
..actually, I can't wait for DLC maps to drop: like Angel City, Fracture and Lagoon