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Why on Earth did Respawn think no custom Titan loadouts was a good idea?
- Thread starter D3VI0US
- Start date
The Freeman
Member
Let's be fair here, it's not like you don't have some choice on your loadouts for the specific titans. The general consensus seems to be that the change is for the better and if it makes people play and enjoy the game then I'm down with that
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
All I can really say is I'm overall liking the sequel significantly more than the original.
1 was like "lets make this game an awesome spectacle with crazy shit happening", 2 was like "let's make a well thought out, competitive and addictive game...with crazy shit happening".
1 was like "lets make this game an awesome spectacle with crazy shit happening", 2 was like "let's make a well thought out, competitive and addictive game...with crazy shit happening".
thetrin
Hail, peons, for I have come as ambassador from the great and bountiful Blueberry Butt Explosion
I actually work on video games. *shrug*
It's much better for balancing and gives the Titans more 'character' IMO.
As a reference I put 100's of hours into TF1, and so far have put in about 60 hours into the MP of TF2, and absolutely love it (much more than TF1, apart from some of the maps).
I'm looking at you Crash Site and Complex, oh and Homestead.
..actually, I can't wait for DLC maps to drop: like Angel City, Fracture and Lagoon
I must be the only person alive that like Crash Site.
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
I liked it at first, had that pinned down, Saving Private Ryan kind of feel...then I realised that's not what I wanted from my Titanfall gaming (after some BF1), then realised I really don't like it for this game.
Can't wait for the DLC maps to be honest: hope they ditch at least Complex from Titan-able map rotation (all good for Pilot on Pilot though).
anothertech
Member
Because it's better.
excaliburps
Press - MP1st.com
Yep. Case of damn if you do, damn if you don't.
You mean what you wanted. I've seen a lot of your TF2 posts and they're all the same, "they ruined the game since I want it to be only this way, etc." It's fine to not like something, but to continually chide a developer's game for not fitting your chosen gameplay design is just, I dunno, petty? When I get a chance to talk to Respawn again (I hope soon), I'll definitely ask them about these things just to get people to understand their reason more (though I think some will automatically say, "they know more about what we want than what we actually want!").
Respawn has repeatedly said that they did it this way in TF2 in order to make it more balanced and not have everyone guess. You can counter Titans in TF2. If you see someone pick Legion, you can then choose Ion, etc.
Those complaining why Respawn changed stuff, they didn't do it on a whim or to fuck with people; they did it since the first one lost players fast. Some complained about top-tier players dominating everyone and not letting newbies get a better grasp on everything, some had balance issues, etc. In short: they had to do something different in TF2. And while we still don't know any sales figures, the fact that the player population has stabilized somewhat and wasn't affected at all by Infinite Warfare, is a good indicator that the changes are sound -- or at least favored by most people.
If you guys hop on to the TF2 OT (which this discussion should have been in the first place rather than a new thread), you'll see a lot of people happy with the actual game (old players and new).
If you haven't played TF2 or just basing everything off the tech test, why not give it a whirl now? Rent it and test the MP out. Most people in the OT that hated the tech test came around and like it. Lots of constructive feedback there and whatnot.
Sigh. Yeah, which is kinda annoying at times. Some GAF people think they can do better than devs, PR, game journos, etc. Maybe a career shift is in order for some just to see things from the other side? xD
Yep. Case of damn if you do, damn if you don't.
You mean what you wanted. I've seen a lot of your TF2 posts and they're all the same, "they ruined the game since I want it to be only this way, etc." It's fine to not like something, but to continually chide a developer's game for not fitting your chosen gameplay design is just, I dunno, petty? When I get a chance to talk to Respawn again (I hope soon), I'll definitely ask them about these things just to get people to understand their reason more (though I think some will automatically say, "they know more about what we want than what we actually want!").
Respawn has repeatedly said that they did it this way in TF2 in order to make it more balanced and not have everyone guess. You can counter Titans in TF2. If you see someone pick Legion, you can then choose Ion, etc.
Those complaining why Respawn changed stuff, they didn't do it on a whim or to fuck with people; they did it since the first one lost players fast. Some complained about top-tier players dominating everyone and not letting newbies get a better grasp on everything, some had balance issues, etc. In short: they had to do something different in TF2. And while we still don't know any sales figures, the fact that the player population has stabilized somewhat and wasn't affected at all by Infinite Warfare, is a good indicator that the changes are sound -- or at least favored by most people.
If you guys hop on to the TF2 OT (which this discussion should have been in the first place rather than a new thread), you'll see a lot of people happy with the actual game (old players and new).
If you haven't played TF2 or just basing everything off the tech test, why not give it a whirl now? Rent it and test the MP out. Most people in the OT that hated the tech test came around and like it. Lots of constructive feedback there and whatnot.
Sigh. Yeah, which is kinda annoying at times. Some GAF people think they can do better than devs, PR, game journos, etc. Maybe a career shift is in order for some just to see things from the other side? xD
Loved the entirety of this post.
wesleyshark
Banned
The lack of Titan customization is one of many, many strange decisions that they made to tf2. Tf was so good... All they had to do was build off of that. Instead they cut a bunch of stuff, slowed the game way down, and found other ways to literally suck the fun out of it.
I really like Titans in Titanfall 2, but they could use some customization. I mean, give each titan more than one weapon or ability. I'm not saying that each titan should have unique weapons or abilities. In Titanfall 1 I'd always use the same loadout, but I never knew what I would be up against. Right now, when I see a titan I know exactly what it can do. That's a bigger advantage for someone who knows what they're doing than the unpredictability that existed in the previous game. A little variety would go a long way.
The maps and the wall hack abilities, on the other hand, are really ruining the game for me at the moment. I've got no urge to keep playing the game because it all comes down to avoiding bad maps and killing pilots by using what is essentially a wall hack. <3 Tone.
The bad maps especially stand out to me. There are only 9 maps to begin with and with this limited and vague matchmaking system you don't get to pick which ones you play. What's left are a handful of enjoyable maps and I really don't want to waste my time getting thrown in Homestead or Crash Site multiple times in a row.
There are a bunch of other changes that I think are really questionable. Mainly the things that restrict and limit the things you could do in the first game in some way. But at the moment these two things really stand out.
The maps and the wall hack abilities, on the other hand, are really ruining the game for me at the moment. I've got no urge to keep playing the game because it all comes down to avoiding bad maps and killing pilots by using what is essentially a wall hack. <3 Tone.
The bad maps especially stand out to me. There are only 9 maps to begin with and with this limited and vague matchmaking system you don't get to pick which ones you play. What's left are a handful of enjoyable maps and I really don't want to waste my time getting thrown in Homestead or Crash Site multiple times in a row.
There are a bunch of other changes that I think are really questionable. Mainly the things that restrict and limit the things you could do in the first game in some way. But at the moment these two things really stand out.
Ivory Samoan
Gold Member
I've had the opposite experience: I find this faster, more fun and a bunch better than TF1.
Personally I don't mind but I also wasn't as enamored with the first game as some people were. I think the game actually plays very well in mp and while I do wish the Titans were a bit tougher I don't mind a lot of the changes. The maps are not great though.
How can you say that's the general consensus? Maybe that's the consensus among people who actually like this game.... but sales for this game are way down, no doubt in part because it failed to attract previous fans.
Pretty sure its because of Battlefield 1 releasing the week before it. Not because of previous fans.
Memorabilia
Member
"Dumbing it down to get more casuals onboard" and "better (?) more predictable tactical encounters" seems to explain it. I don't see the benefit. It's a shame because the release date + design changes seem to have totally screwed the franchise. TF2 sales numbers indicate it's going to have less longevity than the original.
On a personal note, the tech test was terrible which guaranteed I'd cancel my CE pre-order. I'll pick it up eventually for the campaign when it drops to $20 or less. Considering how awesome TF1 was/is, this situation just makes me sad.
On a personal note, the tech test was terrible which guaranteed I'd cancel my CE pre-order. I'll pick it up eventually for the campaign when it drops to $20 or less. Considering how awesome TF1 was/is, this situation just makes me sad.
Radical Edward
Member
Maybe play the game. I wasn't a fan of the tech test and was a fan of TF1. I bougyt TF2 anyway because I had an E3 deal locked in on Amazon. Not only have I grown to like this game much more than TF1 but it is up there with some of my favorite MP shooters of all time. Is it different than tf1? Yes. Does it take some time to get used to the changes? Yes. Is it still very much titanfall game? Yes, and a lot of the people who have actually put time into it (As opposed to bitching about a game they havent played or dont inted to buy) Actually think It's as good, if not better, than the first
Jawmuncher
Member
The changes to how titans are handled was one of my complaints as well. I preferred titans being more or less just a stronger soldier than the hero stuff they're going for.
Alx
Member
The game is definitely not dumbed down, on the contrary. As a matter of fact I was a bit lost at the beginning since the titans had so many different abilities.
In Titanfall1, titans had a primary weapon, explosive weapon and one defensive ability (which could be electric smoke, or something else). The core was basically boosting one of your base stats (better attack, defense or mobility).
In Titanfall 2, you have the same elements, plus smoke as a standard feature, an additional titan-specific ability (Y button), and very unique core attacks. Plus most weapons have two different modes, and some can be combinated (Scorch).
It's much, much more complex than giving a gun to defense/attack/mobility-based titan.
Well not really just collin. Go to any of the multiple 'what do you want from titanfall 2' threads here and virtually every post is an exact copy of collins in here.
And when they did make big changes(futuristic) a ton of people hated it. Cod is a good example to maybe stick with what people like and what works.
Radical Edward
Member
rakkadakka
Member
There are definitely meta builds but you can do all kinds of clowny shit through items and skill build in DotA 2.
The idea that because we have classes built around counters means we can't have choice has been wrong since at least Guild Wars 1.
DudeWithNoName
Member
Agreed. If they were fully customizable you would indeed end up with preferred load outs like in TF1. Many a time I'd match up with/against 5 or 6 Arc-Strider-Cluster players that were prancing around the map OP as hell. It led to boring matches and drives away players.
Radical Edward
Member
Maybe they should have rereleased TF 1 for $80 COD style package and everyone would be happy. We could also see where the player base gravitated to.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
I like roamin' with Ronin.
No, you'd see variations with weapons, ordnance and tactical abilities. Even among the good loadouts there was variation. Some weapons and titans were used more than others. Some much more, but that has more to do with a lack of balancing during the game's life cycle. There is no good reason why these things didn't receive any attention. There is no good reason why we have had to wait for over two years, for a new game, to see changes in that regard.
When you see a titan in Titanfall 2 you know exactly what it can do. I'd argue that's of more value to a good player than having the ability to create one of a number of good loadouts.
excaliburps
Press - MP1st.com
Thanks!
I don't doubt that there's a lot of people who prefer TF2 to be just a more fleshed out version of TF1. However, it did lose its player base very fast, which meant that there was something Respawn needed to do drastically in order to retain 'em. While one can argue it's just adding more progression, it's never that easy especially for a sequel. I doubt it'd have gotten the score it got now if it slapped on the campaign, and just copy and pasted the MP. And also, some people did cite that it was super hard to get into since the top players who spent oodles and oodles of time into it were just flat out dominating people that scared off newcomers.
Some might scoff at Respawn and say they're catering to casuals, which for me is OK. You can have a game accessible for casuals while still being meaty enough that it has depth. TF2 seems to have nailed this -- at least intially -- since we see a lot of "X Titan is OP!!11" statements in the OT, only with another poster saying which Titan is used to counter and how.
Call of Duty is a good example as well. While a lot of people hate on it, it's a good game in the sense that it caters to casuals, and those who pour in the time.
A lot of devs I talk to say this thing a lot, "Gamers don't know what they really want," and I kinda agree. People say they want long-form, in-depth articles when it comes to gaming? You run it, and it gets like 1/10 of a normal list feature (top 10's, etc.). Ditto with games. In BF3, BF4, people hated Op Metro, but if you ask DICE, they'll confirm that their data shows people want that, hence why we get maps like Op Locker, etc. Not saying they base everything on data, or assume for the people, but that their changes are dictated by more than just "Oh, we think this is better, etc."
In those games you can avoid playing those maps, or even play them 24/7, because they have a server browser and player owned servers (even on consoles).
If these maps are what some people want, that's great, but give us a way to pick which maps we get to play so we can avoid them. Instead, we get matchmaking which gets more obscure with every new game. In the previous game at least you could see which map you were going to play but now even that's gone.
FrontalMonk
Banned
The funny thing about this is, I haven't played TF2, but my initial reaction to this was apparently exactly the same as the designers. I was just like "it seems like it would make sense for balance purposes and quick identification of a particular titan's abilities". I mean maybe they should have more titan loadouts than they do, but I don't see a problem with not having a custom loadout.
I mean, shit. The best mech game in existence (Battletech) will allow you to customize your mech, but generally speaking you stick with standard loadouts because otherwise you'd come at your opponent with some nonsense broken build like sitting in a pool of water blasting them with 6 PPCs a turn or some shit.
I mean, shit. The best mech game in existence (Battletech) will allow you to customize your mech, but generally speaking you stick with standard loadouts because otherwise you'd come at your opponent with some nonsense broken build like sitting in a pool of water blasting them with 6 PPCs a turn or some shit.
FLUXCapacitor
Member
I played the original religiously and all I can say is TF2 is better in every way except for the maps. I much prefer how the Titans are set up now.
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
I agree with you.
After awhile, too, you kind of get used to the map designs and you know how to work them. It's not perfect, but it's the most fun I've had in a shooter this year.
Jawmuncher
Member
Consider how this game more than any other of late has a lot of talk surrounding MP changes. If anything I think it just shows that there is an audience that isn't going to adapt to the new changes and that with a potential 3rd game they could try and bridge the gap for said players. TF2 probably hanky won't change enough to bring anyone who isn't on board back. But a 3 could possibly bring in everyone (to an extent obviously, you'll never please 100%).
OverBlood 3
Banned
Having played both the variety in how the titans play is more than compensation enough for the changes. Pick a different Titan.
Also Scorch rulez
Also Scorch rulez
LaunchpadMcQ
Banned
Actually, I think it just shows that other MP games didn't change much since their last iteration.
I like it. Hated it at first, but then I learned the map better and started really enjoying it.
I'm sure there's a multitude of factors.
But this multiplatform game is tracking under the xb1 release of the original Titan Fall. So its mathematically impossible to argue that previous fans are supporting it.
I agree TF should have been moved, but The fact is that gamers have voted with their wallets and stated that they choose BF and COD.
RichiRamjag
Member
I can live with the titan changes, but fuck if I don't hate some of these maps. Complex is a waste bin of a map for this type of gameplay. Straight out of CoD outside of the main hallway. Even ones I like are limited in pilot routes in favor of pushing all engagements to the lane. Bring back open vertical maps with the dlc and I'll continue playing until those servers go down.
excaliburps
Press - MP1st.com
You're saying this as something definite, which it isn't. It's ludicrous to think that a franchise's first-ever multi-platform (on consoles, at least) release stand toe-to-toe against CoD and BF, arguably the biggest brands when it comes to multiplayer today. These are franchise that are over a decade old, and have hardcore fans that will buy every iteration.
I gather, that's more the culprit rather than the game (TF2) being snubbed or its quality. Understandable if people don't get TF2 and opt for BF1 and CoD since those two are surer bets for a lot of Joe Shootbang fans.
For the sales, EA nor Respawn has not issued a statement on any, so we really can't say how much it under-performed, whether it managed to bounce back, etc. It's currently sold out on Amazon, which is good. Of course, we don't know Amazon's allocation but at least it shows that people are buying it. Most of the doom and gloom talk are based on the UK charts that tracked the first two days' sales (not counting digital), and that analyst report that lowered its estimates from 9m units sold to a "disappointing" 6-7m sold. I've said this repeatedly, but I know for a fact that TF2 didn't cost as much as CoD to make, which would mean their target to break even is lower, too.
I think good word of mouth (I think TF2 is one of the few games I've seen get a lot of love on GAF, Reddit, social media, etc. simultaneously) and Game of the Year stuff should help its sales and legs. The worst storm for TF2 has been weathered in the sense that Infinite Warfare didn't dent its player base one bit. Heck, it even seemed to climb up after IW's release.
So, instead of listening to people who played the game and have an idea of why it didn't keep players as long as it should have, they just completely changed it to appeal to a different type of fan and essentially start fresh again? Doesn't make much sense to me.
Also the playerbase dropping very fast is exaggerated and is mostly speaking about PC.
25th october 2014, 12 EST/5am GMT (Way off-peak) there was 8k people on Titanfall 1 on XB1. This was over 7 months into its life cycle. Post Destiny, and before any major sales, DLC going free or EA Access (lowest it had been was $25) Source. At this exact time, CoD Ghosts had 14K people online on XB1.
Last night there was 21K on at peak times (11-12 GMT) for Titanfall 2, on peak vs off peak so it's not really a fair comparison but considering it's so close even giving Titanfall 2 the advantage of time, I'm pretty sure Titanfall 1 is going to have longer longevity than Titanfall 2. A big part of this is down to lower sales but regardless I think it speaks volumes.
And we'll just have to agree to disagree. Considering most reviews focus on the campaign rather than the multiplayer, I think it would have gotten the same - if not better reviews.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Multitude of factors is right. I dunno about "mathematically impossible", though. I don't think it's nearly as cut and dry/case closed as that.
We're assuming all the people that bought TF1 the first time ended up being 'fans'. At the same time, we're not taking into consideration the market at the time. It was March for starters, and there were no big name shooters with long legacies and deep marketing budgets competing against it that month. On top of that, TF1's marketing was in overdrive leading up to release, whereas TF2's... I don't even remember much marketing!
Plus, aren't the TF2 figures everyone is handwringing over purely based on physical sales in the UK?
Sword Of Doom
Member
On paper yes they are more vulnerable but if you're constantly moving and picking your fights it sure doesn't feel that way.
.
Broadbandito
Member
I absolutely adore the change. I like knowing what I am up against and how I need to react using certain titans. I played TF1 for about 100 hours and TF2 for about 60-70 so far.