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[dity]

Valid points. I'm not saying it's the ideal solution, just that it's a better one than being exploited with nothing but pure RNG

Right, but that's the point, Blizzard is trying to hide behind the fact that they want the content to be rare. Again, im not saying this is the ideal solution but clearly there are ways to have content feel rare without it boiling down to RNG that can only be combated by throwing money at the system

My point is that it does nothing to mitigate the concerns expressed here. It's still locked away, you can't just use credits to buy them. Only this time your chance of getting the cosmetic is probably 0.

Isn't it supposed to be rare?

That's absurdly rare. To the point that no one but those who play with top players will see it. I will likely never see the animated spray already available through the same method throughout the whole time I play this game.

 

[hbkdx12]

You're suggesting a system that would turn more people away than what is currently implemented. Oh, you want the cool new skin? Play this shit mode for the next month instead of the actual game you enjoy, and you still probably won't get it anyway lol. get rekt nerds.

Putting aside your personal opinion that the mode is shit, isn't this exactly how lootboxes in the main game work? The only (positive) difference would be that you're not getting fucked by RNG and don't have to feel the need to waste money to try to combat it.

No, it doesn't need to be 500, but saying dumb shit like "oh I thought it was supposed to be rare" as if it doesn't apply already is pretty silly.

As TheRedSnifit pointed out, the number i suggested was completely arbitrary. You can make the tiers/thresholds whatever number you feel allows for the content to still be rare based on the overall player base. However, that doesn't change the fact that it makes for a more fairer system.

 

[dity]

Putting aside your personal opinion that the mode is shit, isn't this exactly how lootboxes in the main game work? The only (positive) difference would be that you're not getting fucked by RNG and don't have to feel the need to waste money to try to combat it

No, you do not get cooler higher chance loot boxes for being a higher rank.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

both levels are rarity aren't the same and you know it.

My point is that it does nothing to mitigate the concerns expressed here. It's still locked away, you can't just use credits to buy them. Only this time your chance of getting the cosmetic is probably 0.



That's absurdly rare. To the point that no one but those who play with top players will see it. I will likely never see the animated spray already available through the same method throughout the whole time I play this game.

Why are you guys obsessing over this 500 number?

Make it so the top 100,000 players receive it then. Still better than what they're doing here.

 

[Euphor!a]

Putting aside your personal opinion that the mode is shit, isn't this exactly how lootboxes in the main game work? The only (positive) difference would be that you're not getting fucked by RNG and don't have to feel the need to waste money to try to combat it.

No, the difference is you don't get to play the game you would more than likely rather play and instead have to dedicate a month to something you don't want to do to get something you won't get anyway. How it is now, you still won't get the skin, but at least you can play the game.

 

[hbkdx12]

My point is that it does nothing to mitigate the concerns expressed here. It's still locked away, you can't just use credits to buy them. Only this time your chance of getting the cosmetic is probably 0.

I'm not denying that. Again, im not saying this is the ideal solution. I pulled the whole thing out of thin air based on whats already in the game as a way to answer a previous poster.

My point is that there's no reason to suggest that you can't have both a fair system with rare content.

 

[Euphor!a]

Why are you guys obsessing over this 500 number?

Make it so the top 100,000 players receive it then. Still better than what they're doing here.

No, it isn't lol. The game mode is shit. making people play that garbage for a month instead of the actual game is 100x worse than the current system.

 

[Mik317]

Why are you guys obsessing over this 500 number?

Make it so the top 100,000 players receive it then. Still better than what they're doing here.

its no different. If anything your method guarantees that some people gets locked out of getting them.

 

[Euphor!a]

I'm not denying that. Again, im not saying this is the ideal solution. I pulled the whole thing out of thin air based on whats already in the game as a way to answer a previous poster.

My point is that there's no reason to suggest that you can't have both a fair system with rare content.

It will only be fair to the people that can achieve it, which is probably less than 1%. Everyone else will be complaining just like they are with the RNG boxes.

 

[dity]

Why are you guys obsessing over this 500 number?

Make it so the top 100,000 players receive it then. Still better than what they're doing here.

I'd rather have the same random chance everyone else does than even need to be in the top 100,000 players out of 10 million.

But heck, my criticism has nothing to do with the particular number. It just does nothing to combat the current issues people have.

I'm not denying that. Again, im not saying this is the ideal solution. I pulled the whole thing out of thin air based on whats already in the game as a way to answer a previous poster.

My point is that there's no reason to suggest that you can't have both a fair system with rare content.

When it comes to online games and rare items, usually it is all up to RNG. You pull it from a random chest, or it drops as loot from an enemy. Guaranteed items only become rare when they're no longer accessible by everyone - like rewards from legacy quests in WoW. You can no longer complete them, therefore the items are rare. But back when they were able to be completed they were not rare.

 

[Yukinari]

All I wanted was D.Va and Genji's Summer Games skins.

Since I have a fair amount of disposable income, I dropped $120 on boxes over the last few weeks.

Still no D.Va and Genji skins.

Kinda bummed and I hope they at least let me buy them at double price or something.

I spent money and only got what i wanted in the final few boxes.

Meanwhile all the free ones had the genji, zarya and dva skins even though i rarely use them.

 

[gatti-man]

Why? If a consumer is aware of the odds and gets utility from what they should reasonably expect, it isn't stupid. It's really just a matter of taste at that point.

This is really missing the forest for the trees here. The mechanic is designed to fool the consumer. No one is going to spend $50 for a skin they want yet people do it in overwatch often. Why is that?

All I wanted was D.Va and Genji's Summer Games skins.

Since I have a fair amount of disposable income, I dropped $120 on boxes over the last few weeks.

Still no D.Va and Genji skins.

Kinda bummed and I hope they at least let me buy them at double price or something.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. What kind of reception would blizzard get if it priced it's skins at $50 a pop? People would laugh or deride them into the ground yet here we are with this ridiculous defense force for what they are doing simply because they wrapped it in rng.

And plenty of people are spending this kind of money that DONT have disposable income because of the RNG. That chance is addicting.

 

[JP_]

Off the top of my head, they could have had lucio ball or other summer/olympic themed modes cycle for the 3 weeks and create some kind of competitive ladder similar to the one thats incorporated in ranked and depending on what tier you break into (top 500, top 1000, top 5000, etc) you get some kind of designated reward package that you'd otherwise would have earned. The only problem here is that it would have created a completely different player pool/queue which i know they don't want to go overboard with but being it's a timed promotional event i'm sure they could deal with it. This is why no one complains about the unlocks/rewards tied to competitive play; it's clear what needs to be done to get what you want and everyone has a fair shot.

That's what makes the system all the more baffling and insulting, they have a pretty good set up with the way rewards work in ranked. So clearly they could have created a better system but chose not to.

The content is rare because the system it works within is unfair and is based on nothing but luck and RNG

I'm suggesting rare content and a fair system to get said content needn't be mutually exclusive.

I think it's weird that you think RNG is "unfair" and want to replace it with a system where some people will have an inherent advantage. In both cases, people with more free time are at an advantage, but you want to layer on another advantage to certain people with skill. Your solution makes the items even less obtainable for certain people, so in a way it's less fair.

I guess you could argue the current system also gives an advantage to people with money to blow, but that wasn't a reason you cited for why it was unfair -- and unless your solution also allows for people to spend money to at least increase their chances (so it'd have the same unfairness), it doesn't address Blizzard's goal of generating revenue to support continued development.

It's worth thinking about the place these items fill. You'll notice that the rewards for competitive play are designed as prestige items. It's less about personal expression and more about displaying accomplishments. It's just a gold weapon -- it's little more than a trophy. That's in contrast to skins and sprays etc, which are more a form of expression. It doesn't seem like Blizzard wants to limit those kind of expressive skins to certain skill ranges -- maybe they think it would demotivate less skilled players and make them more likely to quit because they assume they'll never get the item they want, whereas the current system gives them some hope because it's random and not based on skill -- they have the same chance as anybody else.

And yeah, I think a solution that draws people away from playing the actual game is a pretty poor design. Brawls are intended to be side attractions -- incentivizing playing them over the core game goes against that ethos.

edit: this is why I like valve's approach where there's a marketplace for items and players can sell/trade. Allows items to be rare, but as a player you can go after specific items more efficiently.

 

[orthodoxy1095]

Why should everyone be able to get everything with coins? The idea that you SHOULD be able to get everything with coins is the definition of being entitled.

Hi Jeff!

 

[Mik317]

And plenty of people are spending this kind of money that DONT have disposable income because of the RNG. That chance is addicting.

If you don't have the money to spend and yet you spend it anyway...then that is your problem.

Thats where the "its just cosmetics" comes into play. If your money is that tight, then shit like that should be super low on the list of things you should buy.

 

[ramyeon]

That gold can't purchase the season skins, and no evidence has been presented that the gold will be able to purchase any new skins or future dlc, it could be all seasonal.

Ummm no. I mean besides the emotes already mentioned they also announced a new Reinhardt legendary at Gamescom which is purchasable with coins like every other legendary.

Not everything is going to be seasonal going forward.

 

[hbkdx12]

I think it's weird that you think RNG is "unfair" and want to replace it with a system where some people will have an inherent advantage. In both cases, people with more free time are at an advantage, but you want to layer on another advantage to certain people with skill. Your solution makes the items even less obtainable for certain people, so in a way it's less fair.

I guess you could argue the current system also gives an advantage to people with money to blow, but that wasn't a reason you cited for why it was unfair -- and unless your solution also allows for people to spend money to at least increase their chances (so it'd have the same unfairness), it doesn't address Blizzard's goal of generating revenue to support continued development.

It's worth thinking about the place these items fill. You'll notice that the rewards for competitive play are designed as prestige items. It's less about personal expression and more about displaying accomplishments. It's just a gold weapon -- it's little more than a trophy. That's in contrast to skins and sprays etc, which are more a form of expression. It doesn't seem like Blizzard wants to limit those kind of expressive skins to certain skill ranges -- maybe they think it would demotivate less skilled players and make them more likely to quit because they assume they'll never get the item they want, whereas the current system gives them some hope because it's random and not based on skill -- they have the same chance as anybody else.

And yeah, I think a solution that draws people away from playing the actual game is a pretty poor design. Brawls are intended to be side attractions -- incentivizing playing them over the core game goes against that ethos.

edit: this is why I like valve's approach where there's a marketplace for items and players can sell/trade. Allows items to be rare, but as a player you can go after specific items more efficiently.

A lot is being made of this solution that i've openly admitted i just pulled out the air and isn't ideal. I'm not saying you're wrong or denying that you have valid arguments. I'm just saying that i find it hard to believe that the system that's in place now, is the best system that could be implemented.

 

[Mik317]

A lot is being made of this solution that i've openly admitted i just pulled out the air and isn't ideal. I'm not saying you're wrong or denying that you have valid arguments. I'm just saying that i find it hard to believe that the system that's in place now, is the best system that could be implemented.

Its probably not. again I think they could have gotten the same result of making each event special AND still allow people to buy skins with coins by just making them cost a ton and only be purchasable during the events. That is a simple fix. (or hell allow peeps to use their coins to buy more lootboxes...)

however, the current system isn't the worst thing in the world like some make it out to be. At the end of the day, it is a business and there are far more "heinous" ways to go about doing this.

Ideally they learn from this. This was the first event afterall.

 

[TeddyShardik]

That's a great way to taint the reputation of an otherwise great game I guess.
You can rationalize it all you want but this gacha shit has no place in a full price game.
If people want more content than originally offered then charge for it, not for a casino visit. This needs regulation asap.

If the reason you have this system is to make the skins rare and special (which of course isn't true) then have the backbone to not let people buy the boxes and give them out for special achievements ingame.

 

[Jawmuncher]

I wish you could swap a legendary with a lower tier. I got Mccree dick Tracy and would trade that for America in a heartbeat.

 

[RecRoulette]

Cant imagine the blowback if Blizzard has a skin with the Blizzcon ticket.

 

[CadetMahoney]

Overwatch has been a crazy money grab. It's totally turned me off the game. Idk if I'll ever turn it back on.

tbh I feel like I dodged a bullet with this game.

I don't like multiplayer games which are team-based because they're even more susceptible to having to rely on others to perform well. I always read about that 50/50 thing, someone complaining that other people lose games because of whatevers, stuff you have no control over.

You'd have to join a clan or something and not many people want to go that deep. I prefer a fighting game or something, body some fools then call it a day.

 

[potatohead]

People now just realizing abusive microtransaction costume prices are bad in a full price retail game?

Cool.

 

[ahoyhoy]

People now just realizing abusive microtransaction costume prices are bad in a full price retail game?

Cool.

It's not the microtransactions themselves: people are kinda used to that by now; it's the fact that you can't reliably unlock the skins via gameplay AND the only way to buy them via microtransactions is to essentailly gamble, which really preys upon those with compulsions of gambling.

 

[potatohead]

It's not the microtransactions themselves: people are kinda used to that by now; it's the fact that you can't reliably unlock the skins via gameplay AND the only way to buy them via microtransactions is to essentailly gamble, which really preys upon those with compulsions of gambling.

Yea that's what I meant. I've seen these tactics in PC games for a really long time. Which is why I'm not surprised it doesn't fit in a $60 paid game.

Same stuff in CSGO and Dota 2 and TF2. Except two of those are F2P.

But those crates and passes and whatnot are also expensive as shit sometimes. I'm not about to defend Dota 2 cosmetic prices. No way.

 

[Kintaro]

Cant imagine the blowback if Blizzard has a skin with the Blizzcon ticket.

Honestly shocked WoW: Legion CE doesn't come with OW skins. It's just something they do.

 

[potatohead]

It's not the microtransactions themselves: people are kinda used to that by now; it's the fact that you can't reliably unlock the skins via gameplay AND the only way to buy them via microtransactions is to essentailly gamble, which really preys upon those with compulsions of gambling.

Also forgot to say: I think people should really re-evaluate microtransactions and their inherent value for their games.

But I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Tovarisc]

Then you all would be complaining that the items are only for people who play a lot instead.

You really are running with those goalposts aren't you?

 

[Permanently A]

Unrelated.
A lot of people seem to be saying that the gambling system of unlocks is unfair and even predatory. (To which, I would say, check out the monetization system before you buy)

The monetization system was fine at time of launch. You could get lucky and get the skin you wanted out of a box as a random drop, or you could save your credits until you had enough for that skin. This was fine.

The summer games changed this system. Now despite however much credits you have, there is no way for you to directly get the skin you want. The monetization system has changed. And that's why we get to complain.

 

[Chmpocalypse]

is agree with most of this, but how do you figure on this point? Competitive is slower if anything. Comp games give more xp because they're LONGER. They give less xp per hour though because fewer games won, fewer medals, no consecutive game bonus, and fewer games means less chance at a first win of the day bonus. Go play quick play. It's no slower for xp than competitive, unless they've changed something.

This. Lucioball earns you XP way faster.

(Disclosure: I do work on Overwatch)

 

[Tovarisc]

This. Lucioball earns you XP way faster.

(Disclosure: I do work on Overwatch)

Shame I don't find it fun nor enjoyable gamemode :/ QP grind for me it is.

Edit: well likely not to play OW until SG is over, I hate that feel that I need to grind boxes so I can have shot at time limited Mercy skin. Fucking hate it, taking over fun part of OW.

 

[tci]

I don't even understand why people pay extra for ingame shit in any games. You paid for the game, that should be enough. I wish people stopped buying into these shitty things.

The way Overwatch did the lootboxes was fine. That you cant' do the same with the summer games things is fine by me as well.

All this "I want this now" mentality is just kind of silly imo. People want rewards for nothing these days for some reason. And even pay the same prices as the full game for it, or even more. What a sad state.

 

[King Gilga]

Yeah I saw the way it was going in beta, glad I decided not to go for the game.

 

[hydruxo]

Overwatch has been a crazy money grab. It's totally turned me off the game. Idk if I'll ever turn it back on.

You know you can play the game without buying lootboxes right? All the actual gameplay content (new heroes, maps, modes) are free.

I'm not defending Blizzard as far as the morality of this event goes, but you don't have to spend extra money to keep playing the game. If anything they do it better than the majority of shooters these days who charge $50 for season passes.

 

[Apathy]

Honestly shocked WoW: Legion CE doesn't come with OW skins. It's just something they do.

It gives you the illidan spray.

 

[Terrorblot]

You speak complete sense, great post.

The Big Mac comparison is just awful, because the Big Mac in this paradigm isn't the skin, it's the gameplay. McDonald's has loot boxes, it's called a happy meal. You're going to get a toy, and the food you paid for. You can't pick your toy. If your want a different toy, you have to buy another meal.

 

[mjc]

The biggest problem is that they hide the seasonal items behind walls without letting players use gold to get them. Very odd practice, although I'm guilty of dropping $10 on boxes during this event. I do feel gross for doing it and likely won't in the future. It sends a bad message that this is ok.