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[Mariah Carey]

It all started that one fateful evening when they both arrived at the red carpet

...wearing the same dress!!!

Which one copied the other? Or was it Sony who suggested the dress to both of them in order to create the feud? To this day it is a mystery.

 

[Koren]

This was hardly a Square-only thing right?

Which other developper released NO game for the system, and expressed their position as loudly as Squaresoft ? Even Enix released N64 games (I own two, Wonder Project J2 and Mischief Makers, but there may be others)

Of course, many developpers found that Sony was a way to escape Nintendo very large licensing costs and break their "near-monopoly". But Square is a big example of a strong NES/SNES supporter which completely ignored Nintendo consoles after, which is at least unusual.

 

[Michan]

I'm patiently awaiting the "Why was GAF bickering during the 10s" thread after this furious match between the ill-informed.

 

[Freshmaker]

Square couldn't bombard us with hours worth of non playable cutscenes on a cartridge?

FF6's Opera says that wasn't the reason.

 

[Black-Wind]

Nintendo was all like
And Square was all like
Then Nintendo was all like X(
And square was all like :'(
Then Sony came and Square was all like
And Nintendo was all like . . . >:'( . . .
Then shit tons of devs follow Square's lead and Nintendo is like . . .
Then Iwata comes and makes Nintendo all :/
Then Nintendo releases DS/ Wii and Iwata-Nintendo is all like :lol :lol :lol

 

[Slightly Live]

ITT: Too many Wikipedia editors and not enough sources.

 

[Azelover]

People say it was because of technology or relationship issues, but I don't think that's the main case. They were doing fine relationship wise before the excuses began, and there were technological solutions.

I mean hell, if Miyamoto said he couldn't make Mario because the 8-bit graphics were simple a lot of real innovations outside of technological "advancement" wouldn't have happened.

Square had an agenda beyond gaming landscape, and that was more important to them. Sony being shamelessly opportunistic as they were gave them huge temptation to go ahead with it. It was impossible to avoid, even if Yamauchi were humble like Iwata, or simply an angel.

Square and Sony started a relationship that was long term, widespread and ultimately unsuccessful.

 

[Taurus]

:lol

You can't be serious in 2009.

Isn't DS for example using cartridges..?

 

[Mandoric]

Square and Sony started a relationship that was long term, widespread and ultimately unsuccessful.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Isn't DS for example using cartridges..?

Write-once flash is far, far cheaper than traditional mask ROM.

 

[J-Rzez]

okay, STOP THAT.

Im so sick of stupid people hating on cartridges. Oh no, no CD-quality music and shitty non-interactive cutscenes. What a loss. Instead we got no load times.

I LOVED carttridges and at some point they will make a return. Because the only thing holding them off today is their high cost compared to disc-based media. It´s not because the medium is somehow faulty...it´s the opposite.

in short: cartridges ftw

Coming from someone who started gaming throughout the cart days... :lol

Carts will never-ever make a return. Never. Even with the prices of flash memory being dirt cheap, it'll never happen. DD will become the norm before carts ever see the light of day again, which "may" happen once Blu-Ray runs it's course, massive SSHDDs are cheap/reliable, and the worlds (NA especially) ISP's step up and establish a proper network.

The reasons for the fighting were simple:
- Square was working on a game based on SNES CD specs, Nintendo scraped it.
- Square then enamored by the better audio and storage of CDs wanted to dev games around them.
- Nintendo had restrictions on 3rd parties
- Nintendo had crazy royalties

Nintendo was a real shitty company towards 3rd parties, which I'm sure hasn't really changed much. That could be part of the reason 3rd parties don't give the Wii any love. That, and nintendo's hardware choices, once again, leading to them selling consoles like crazy but to a totally different market.

 

[cartman414]

Not to mention that the where the N64 was developer unfriendly, DS is quite easy to work with.

Nintendo was a real shitty company towards 3rd parties, which I'm sure hasn't really changed much. That could be part of the reason 3rd parties don't give the Wii any love. That, and nintendo's hardware choices, once again, leading to them selling consoles like crazy but to a totally different market.

Back in '03, Nintendo cut their royalty rates down to be more in line with those of Sony and Microsoft, to which effect we've seen many more releases of varying price tiers. Third parties just don't care as much for developing new games on the comparatively tech deficient Wii.

 

[dslgunstar]

People say it was because of technology or relationship issues, but I don't think that's the main case. They were doing fine relationship wise before the excuses began, and there were technological solutions.

I mean hell, if Miyamoto said he couldn't make Mario because the 8-bit graphics were simple a lot of real innovations outside of technological "advancement" wouldn't have happened.

Square had an agenda beyond gaming landscape, and that was more important to them. Sony being shamelessly opportunistic as they were gave them huge temptation to go ahead with it. It was impossible to avoid, even if Yamauchi were humble like Iwata, or simply an angel.

Square and Sony started a relationship that was long term, widespread and ultimately unsuccessful.

Are you insane? Square and Sony almost single-handedly made the JRPG genre viable, profitable and popular outside the limited confines of Japan.

And what exactly is 'shameless opportunistic' about offering a company a better deal than your competitor? Hell, not only better, but more FAIR since they werent going to censor any of Square's content (as Nintendo had), were going to help them advertise (which Nintendo never did), and were going to charge them less money in licensing fees?

Ethics-wise and profits-wise, Sony did the right thing to offer Square a better deal, and Square did the right thing by taking it.

 

[ethelred]

And what exactly is 'shameless opportunistic' about offering a company a better deal than your competitor? Hell, not only better, but more FAIR since they werent going to censor any of Square's content (as Nintendo had), were going to help them advertise (which Nintendo never did), and were going to charge them less money in licensing fees?

Ethics-wise and profits-wise, Sony did the right thing to offer Square a better deal, and Square did the right thing by taking it.

Uh... it was shamelessly opportunistic and unfair because it led Square to betray Nintendo. Obviously. Betrayal is the most severe of all the sins; the lowest level of hell is reserved for traitors like Judas, Lucifer, Cain, Antenor, and Square.

 

[dslgunstar]

Uh... it was shamelessly opportunistic and unfair because it led Square to betray Nintendo. Obviously. Betrayal is the most severe of all the sins; the lowest level of hell is reserved for traitors like Judas, Lucifer, Cain, Antenor, and Square.

:lol

Square and Nintendo had a business arrangement. They had a disagreement and parted ways. That hardly constitutes a 'betrayal'. Square was open with Nintendo about their needs, open with their displeasure, and open with their departure. There was no betrayal there.

EDIT: On second reading, Im starting to sense some sarcasm in your post...

 

[cartman414]

There was betrayal in Square convincing Enix to ditch Planet Nintendoo 64 for the Sony Playstation to spite Nintendo. And that's what gave Yamauchi the vapors.

 

[Amir0x]

People say it was because of technology or relationship issues, but I don't think that's the main case. They were doing fine relationship wise before the excuses began, and there were technological solutions.

I mean hell, if Miyamoto said he couldn't make Mario because the 8-bit graphics were simple a lot of real innovations outside of technological "advancement" wouldn't have happened.

Square had an agenda beyond gaming landscape, and that was more important to them. Sony being shamelessly opportunistic as they were gave them huge temptation to go ahead with it. It was impossible to avoid, even if Yamauchi were humble like Iwata, or simply an angel.

Square and Sony started a relationship that was long term, widespread and ultimately unsuccessful.

I still can't believe the wounds are still so deep with Nintendo fans that they still are revising history to come to terms with why things went down the way they did. It's really time to stop lying to yourselves, it's gonna be OK!

Sony was "shamelessly opportunistic" and Square had some agenda that led to an "ultimately unsuccessful" partnership... I mean jesus fucking tapdancing christ.

 

[Deku]

Question is posed in OP
Question is answered

Why is the thread still going?

 

[AzureNightmare]

okay, STOP THAT.

Im so sick of stupid people hating on cartridges. Oh no, no CD-quality music and shitty non-interactive cutscenes. What a loss. Instead we got no load times.

I LOVED carttridges and at some point they will make a return. Because the only thing holding them off today is their high cost compared to disc-based media. It´s not because the medium is somehow faulty...it´s the opposite.

in short: cartridges ftw

You're dumb. I never want to go back to the day when zelda and mario games cost $70-$100.

I still can't believe the wounds are still so deep with Nintendo fans that they still are revising history to come to terms with why things went down the way they did. It's really time to stop lying to yourselves, it's gonna be OK!

Sony was "shamelessly opportunistic" and Square had some agenda that led to an "ultimately unsuccessful" partnership... I mean jesus fucking tapdancing christ.

Amirox, its not Nintendo fans with festering wounds that are revising history here, its stupidass kids that have absolutely no fucking clue what actually went on during those days. They have absolutely no fucking idea what suffering Nintendo fans like me went through back in the N64 days. And yet they are claiming they know what really happened. They're fucking ignorant kids, that's all they are.

 

[Deku]

You're dumb. I never want to go back to the day when zelda and mario games cost $70-$100.



Amirox, its not Nintendo fans with festering wounds that are revising history here, its stupidass kids that have absolutely no fucking clue what actually when on during those days. They have absolutely no fucking idea what suffering Nintendo fans like me went through back in the N64 days. And yet they are claiming they know what really happened. They're fucking ignorant kids, that's all they are.

wtf.

 

[madmook]

I loved the N64 days, best Nintendo gaming I've ever had.

 

[ethelred]

I loved the N64 days, best Nintendo gaming I've ever had.

I think it's easily the worst Nintendo system and one of the worst major consoles ever, though.

 

[Amir0x]

You're dumb. I never want to go back to the day when zelda and mario games cost $70-$100.

Amirox, its not Nintendo fans with festering wounds that are revising history here, its stupidass kids that have absolutely no fucking clue what actually went on during those days. They have absolutely no fucking idea what suffering Nintendo fans like me went through back in the N64 days. And yet they are claiming they know what really happened. They're fucking ignorant kids, that's all they are.

I believe - and I don't think I'm being antagonistic when I say - it can only be very very distraught Nintendo fanboys who could possibly revise history the way it is being done in this thread. They're straight up conjurin' shit up out of thin air, trying to proclaim Nintendo as the misunderstood angel in this affair.

I think it's easily the worst Nintendo system and one of the worst major consoles ever, though.

Hey me too! But we can at least pour a little liquor out for Ogre Battle 64 and also the Zelda games.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

In short: Nintendo was greedy, and Square was greedy. In the end, the world was too small for both of their enormous greeds at the same time. :lol

 

[Why For?]

Bottom line.

Nintendo were assholes and restrictive, Sony provided an out and Square took it.

It's gonna be interesting to see Nintendo slowly turn into that asshole again, I mean it's already starting.

 

[Duckhuntdog]

Some of this is detailed in the book Game Over: Press Start to Continue. They have great interviews with Howard Lincoln and Minoru Arakawa over the N64. Both admit that going with carts (and Nintendo's very wonky system of manufacturing of them) killed them and was a major cause of 3rd party defection, along with Sony offering lower licensing fees.

Now the bad blood between Nintendo and Namco, now that was epic. Here is a little morsel from the book:

"One of the original licensees, Namco, was run by Maysaya Nakamura, who had been the lord of the industry for many years, long before anyone every heard of Hiroshi Yamaguchi.

Notoriously vain, Nakamura stamped his feet and ranted and raved to get his way[...] power was Nakamura's obsession.

...Namco was the first company [to receive a license to develop for the famicom].

Hiroshi Yamaguchi and Nakamura agreed to work together... Nakamura expected and received very favorable terms-- certainly more favorable than later Nintendo licenses.

In 1989, Namco's five year contract expired. Feeling that him and Yamauchi were equals, Nakamura expected the renewal of the contract to be a mere formality. Yamauchi, however, used the opportunity to humble Nakamura. Yamauchi decided that all agreements with licensees would be identical with no exceptions.

When Nakamura was informed of this, he exploded. Nakamura would not acknowledge Yamauchi was stronger. 'All of a sudden Yamauchi was king,' a Nakamura associate stated. "Nakamura did not want to observe the rule created by Yamauchi. It was a slap in the face. It was unpardonable.'

...Nakamura in response announced that Namco would begin to make games for Sega... it was futile gesture; Nintendo with 90 percent of the market was invulnerable.

Namco filed suit court against Nintendo for monopolistic practices. Yamauchi dismissed the filing stating, ' Frankly, Namco is envious of us...if they are not satisfied with Nintendo and the way we do business they should create their own market. That is the advantage of the free market.' Before long, Nakamura withdrew the suit.

'Mr. Nakamura suffered the anguish of the defeated king,' his colleague says. 'The biggest blow was to have to crawl back to Yamauchi-- the defeated king accepting that he must now be a courtier.'

If Nakamura had not been able to stand up to Hiroshi Yamaguchi, no one could. Yamauchi's power was no longer questioned."

 

[Amir0x]

Bottom line.

Nintendo were assholes and restrictive, Sony provided an out and Square took it.

It's gonna be interesting to see Nintendo slowly turn into that asshole again, I mean it's already starting.

I doubt Nintendo has anywhere near the power required to go back to the way things were. Nor do I believe it is in their best interest to do that.

I don't think it will ever be the way it was with Nintendo, thank God. I'm not sure they'll still handle things the way I would like, but it's not going to be stormy weather and whatnot. Things are different now, there are major competitors and third parties know they have plenty of outs.

 

[Salacious Crumb]

This thread is full of Heroes of the web.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Thinking about the thread in the last couple of weeks about record revenues not generating profit, the layoffs, and the required sell-through to break even on projects - specifically the HD targeted ones... With all this talk about Nintendo's then restrictive policies, hypothetically, if the industry were to experience a crash again, and Nintendo was the last man standing.. as it were.., how do you think they would handle the situation?

Spoiler

HYPOTHETICAL YOU JERKS

 

[OldJadedGamer]

I think it's easily the worst Nintendo system and one of the worst major consoles ever, though.

Well, the Virtual Boy is the worst Nintendo console but yes I agree that out of home consoles the N64 was the worst on all levels.

 

[hyduK]

Nintendo is horrible at dealing with 3rd parties, that's about it.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

See, and I think the Gamecube was the worst home console Nintendo made. The nice thing about Nintendo is there is a lot of choice in this particular debate.

 

[Why For?]

Well, the Virtual Boy is the worst Nintendo console but yes I agree that out of home consoles the N64 was the worst on all levels.

what the fuck ever.

64 was GOLDEN. GOLDEN!!!!!

It's the console that made go multiplatform from being a Segabot.

 

[hyduK]

Well, the Virtual Boy is the worst Nintendo console but yes I agree that out of home consoles the N64 was the worst on all levels.

Are we talking from a financial success standpoint? If not, I'd take the N64 over the Wii any day of the week.

Nintendo + Rare > Just Nintendo.

Zelda:OoT
Zelda:MM
Goldeneye
SM64
Perfect Dark
Banjo Kazooie
Banjo Tooie
Wave Race
1080 Snowboarding
Star Fox 64
Turok 2
Diddy Kong Racing
Conkers Bad Fur Day
Jet Force Gemini
Donkey Kong 64
Pilotwings
Ogre Battle
F-Zero
WWF No Mercy
Super Smash Bros.

Pretty decent lineup, definitely didn't have the variety of the PS1 but it held its own and you could always count on some very high quality titles coming.

 

[I'm an expert]

Are we talking from a financial success standpoint? If not, I'd take the N64 over the Wii any day of the week.

Nintendo + Rare > Just Nintendo.

Zelda:OoT
Zelda:MM
Goldeneye
SM64
Perfect Dark
Banjo Kazooie
Banjo Tooie
Wave Race
1080 Snowboarding
Star Fox 64
Turok 2
Diddy Kong Racing
Conkers Bad Fur Day
Jet Force Gemini
Donkey Kong 64
Pilotwings
Ogre Battle
F-Zero
WWF No Mercy
Super Smash Bros.

Pretty decent lineup, definitely didn't have the variety of the PS1 but it held its own and you could always count on some very high quality titles coming.

You forgot Blast Corps and Rogue effing Squadron. Also I would switch No Mercy for WCW vs. NWO World Tour.

 

[J-Rzez]

Some of this is detailed in the book Game Over: Press Start to Continue. They have great interviews with Howard Lincoln and Minoru Arakawa over the N64. Both admit that going with carts (and Nintendo's very wonky system of manufacturing of them) killed them and was a major cause of 3rd party defection, along with Sony offering lower licensing fees.

Naw, read the thread. Howard Lincoln was a traitor, Sony whored themselves out, carts are superior to other medias, Nintendo was a fluffy sheep who were back stabbed by the wolves that were 3rd party developers. Let's not put your actual facts into play here. I mean, what are you going to say next? That Nintendo pulling the plug on the SNES CD screwing Sony spawned the Playstation? Not in the mythical world of this thread.

 

[ethelred]

See, and I think the Gamecube was the worst home console Nintendo made. The nice thing about Nintendo is there is a lot of choice in this particular debate.

It's a tough call but I think the greater variety on the GameCube (thanks to slightly increased third party support) is what gives it the edge there. Neither system had a good Mario game, though, which is unfortunate.

Well, the Virtual Boy is the worst Nintendo console but yes I agree that out of home consoles the N64 was the worst on all levels.

Oh, yeah, I tend to forget that thing exists. Okay, the N64 is the second worst Nintendo machine.

Are we talking from a financial success standpoint? If not, I'd take the N64 over the Wii any day of the week.

Nintendo + Rare > Just Nintendo.

Well, I don't think Rare is a good developer at all, and most of the games you proceeded to list out aren't good, either. But Majora's Mask and Ogre Battle 64 definitely are! The thing definitely didn't hold its own against the PS1, or the Saturn for that matter.

 

[DidntKnowJack]

The first reply to this thread pretty much said it all.

 

[hyduK]

Well, I don't think Rare is a good developer at all, and most of the games you proceeded to list out aren't good, either. But Majora's Mask and Ogre Battle 64 definitely are! The thing definitely didn't hold its own against the PS1, or the Saturn for that matter.

Definitely disagree with you there. The N64 had more than enough blockbusters to warrant a purchase. PS1 was the console everyone played consistently, but it definitely went to the backburner every once in a while when a big game hit the 64. Maybe saying it held it's own wasn't quite accurate, PS1 definitely ran circles around it...but for me N64 was still a must buy.

I can understand you putting the GameCube ahead of the N64 though. Just out of curiosity, where do you put Wii, SNES, and NES? (apologies if you already discussed that in this thread).

You forgot Blast Corps and Rogue effing Squadron. Also I would switch No Mercy for WCW vs. NWO World Tour.

WCW vs. NWO was a great game, that's for sure. The mechanics probably weren't as good as WWF No Mercy, but the lineup was definitely up there. And yes, I definitely forgot Blast Corps and RS.

 

[kinggroin]

It's a tough call but I think the greater variety on the GameCube (thanks to slightly increased third party support) is what gives it the edge there. Neither system had a good Mario game, though, which is unfortunate.



Oh, yeah, I tend to forget that thing exists. Okay, the N64 is the second worst Nintendo machine.



Well, I don't think Rare is a good developer at all, and most of the games you proceeded to list out aren't good, either. But Majora's Mask and Ogre Battle 64 definitely are! The thing definitely didn't hold its own against the PS1, or the Saturn for that matter.

Gotta agree. It's almost objectively clear that the Nintendo 64 was the company's worst mainstream console. Mario 64 and Sunshine being major let downs; not to mention that Rare's games were mostly cheaper, souless immitation of these titles.

The only situation in which you were a happy gamer that owned an N64, is if you also owned a PS and Saturn.

 

[AzureNightmare]

I believe - and I don't think I'm being antagonistic when I say - it can only be very very distraught Nintendo fanboys who could possibly revise history the way it is being done in this thread. They're straight up conjurin' shit up out of thin air, trying to proclaim Nintendo as the misunderstood angel in this affair.

Fair enough. I am just a little bitter over those days, but I didn't really think that some could be so deluded that they would actually be able to willingly try to alter what happened during the N64 and PS1 days. The reason I am bitter though is because I owned an N64, and was not allowed to have a PS1. Which is why I today game on 6 separate platforms. (360, PS3, Wii, DS, PSP, and PC)

 

[Amir0x]

See, and I think the Gamecube was the worst home console Nintendo made. The nice thing about Nintendo is there is a lot of choice in this particular debate.

I really liked Gamecube! I have several of my favorite games on Gamecube (Metroid Prime 1/2, Pikmin 2, Twilight Princess, Wind Waker, Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door, F-Zero GX), plus lots of other really rad ones debuted on the platform (Chibi Robo, Super Monkey Ball 1/2, Viewtiful Joe, Super Mario Sunshine).

I know some people also liked the two Baten Kaitos games, though I didn't.

If you add to that the system had OK multiplatform support, which made sometimes multiplatform games preferable on the platform (Beyond Good and Evil comes to mind), I think it is better than N64.

N64 had these games I liked: Paper Mario, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Sin & Punishment, Ogre Battle 64.

And a few other stragglers here and there that were just ok or have aged really, really poorly. But like ethelred I think all else even being equal, the Gamecube platform was ultimately was put ahead by its superior third party support.

 

[kswiston]

Maybe we should go back to that three game a year rule but expand it to all system. That would stop a LOT of crap from flooding the market.

This is a horrible idea that would have resulted in most of my favourite games this gen never being made.

Think about it. Console output from EA would basically be Fifa, Madden, and Need for Speed every year. No Dead Space, no Dragon Age or Mass Effect, No Boom Blox, etc. Same goes for every other company out there. There would be no experimentation.

 

[timetokill]

Neither system had a good Mario game, though, which is unfortunate.

Oh so subtle :lol

 

[hyduK]

The only situation in which you were a happy gamer that owned an N64, is if you also owned a PS and Saturn.

You can say the same thing about Wii, or Gamecube. In fact, I can't see how anyone could possibly argue that Wii holds up better on its own than N64 did.

 

[Firestorm]

PusherT, for the love of all that is holy, read up on Nintendo's history before mouthing off about it. This book would be a great start:

That's the second or third edition. If you want the first, it won't have that nice picture of Mario because Nintendo pulled out of the deal at the last second saying they didn't want to let the publisher use him.

Edit: Damn prices have skyrocketed. I really wish I hadn't lost my copy. My school library has it though so check yours.

 

[Hero]

You guys are so delusional:

"[People who play RPGs are] depressed gamers who like to sit alone in their dark rooms and play slow games," he noted in a 1999 interview. Yamauchi - who incidentally has prided himself on the fact that he has never played a videogame - went on to call RPGs as a whole both "silly and boring."​

"There is no truth to an agreement between Nintendo and Square," said Yamauchi. "[Square] is free to say what they want, but there are no plans for a contract, and the chances that there will be one in the future are low." ​

In 2001, after Square expressed interest in working on future Nintendo platforms, Yamauchi told Bloomberg Japan that Nintendo would not allow that to happen. "There is no contract with Square, and that matter is not open to further discussion," Yamauchi told the financial news service. "[Square] can say whatever they want, but we have no intention of signing a contract, and there's little chance of one being signed in the future."​

"We're not expecting to be accepted by Nintendo right away, but we're doing everything to get the relationship positive again. The most important thing about management is the ability of having several choices. It is hard to loose one of these. We have to try to convince Nintendo, by showing them our plans for GBA and GameCube that we will boost their hardware sales" said Mr. Suzuki, Square's president.​

As Kobun has already pointed out, Yamauchi didn't care about Square themselves leaving, but them going around and convincing other third parties to as well, most notably Enix. All these quotes came years after the fact of the matter so I'm not sure what you're trying to prove?

In the end, Yamauchi humbled the hell out of Square. Pretty sure from what I remember on the boards here the day Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles was announced Square actually waited for a day where the head of SCEI in Japan was out of the country to make the announcement of the game.

Not to say Yamauchi didn't run the industry with an iron fist, because he did, but what's done is done. Pretty sure there's some bad blood between Namco and Yamauchi as well.

 

[velvet_nitemare]

Apparently, to some people Nintendo can do no wrong.

Jesus Fucking Christ.

 

[Medalion]

Square saw into the future and saw the Wii controller...

But didn't see far enough ahead to see Nintendo's success.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I really liked Gamecube! I have several of my favorite games on Gamecube (Metroid Prime 1/2, Pikmin 2, Twilight Princess, Wind Waker, Paper Mario: Thousand Year Door, F-Zero GX), plus lots of other really rad ones debuted on the platform (Chibi Robo, Super Monkey Ball 1/2, Viewtiful Joe, Super Mario Sunshine).

I know some people also liked the two Baten Kaitos games, though I didn't.

If you add to that the system had OK multiplatform support, which made sometimes multiplatform games preferable on the platform (Beyond Good and Evil comes to mind), I think it is better than N64.

N64 had these games I liked: Paper Mario, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Sin & Punishment, Ogre Battle 64.

And a few other stragglers here and there that were just ok or have aged really, really poorly. But like ethelred I think all else even being equal, the Gamecube platform was ultimately was put ahead by its superior third party support.

Yeah, but I had an Xbox and a PS2, so 99% of that third party support meant nothing to me. WWF No Mercy on the N64 did more for me.

 

[Amir0x]

Yeah, but I had an Xbox and a PS2, so 99% of that third party support meant nothing to me. WWF No Mercy on the N64 did more for me.

I mean yeah I had a PS2 and Xbox too, but since I didn't like almost any of the N64 exclusives but liked at least a good dozen or so Gamecube exclusives, I guess that is where the difference lied for me... although, still, even though stuff like Super Monkey Ball, Viewtiful Joe and Resident Evil 4 came to other platforms, during that generation the GCN was still the place to play 'em imo.

(I've never enjoyed Wrestling games or Wrestling in general, but that's a different story...)