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[Zzoram]

As if the majority of the casual crowd that bought a wii even cares or knows about piracy.
I don't see this being as much an issue as it was for Dreamcast.

The majority of casuals have never heard of the Dreamcast :lol

 

[gcfan2k5]

The difference between Nintendo and Microsoft is, Microsoft based it's console experience around online, so banning consoles from Live due to mod detection is actually a deterrent. That plus people are getting very attached to their gamertags and achievements. The Wii is based around local multiplayer, and there is no way to scare someone with the threat of an online ban if they don't care about online.

They should literally permanently brick modded consoles, and clearly tell you in the manual that they will if you mod. That would be the ultimate deterrant.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

As if the majority of the casual crowd that bought a wii even cares or knows about piracy.
I don't see this being as much an issue as it was for Dreamcast.

I think we all said that about Napster and MP3s, and so did RIAA.

 

[badcrumble]

They should literally permanently brick modded consoles, and clearly tell you in the manual that they will if you mod. That would be the ultimate deterrant.

That can't happen if literally anything can be disguised as signed software.

 

[Toy Soldier]

As if the majority of the casual crowd that bought a wii even cares or knows about piracy.

But if all it takes is having a DVD burner and a $10 spindle of discs (and I guess a broadband connection for downloading?), it certainly seems that a lot of 'em will catch wind of "free games" and BEGIN to care about it.

Shitty.

 

[Keyser Soze]

So, is this similar to where the PSP started off all those years ago, and will it lead to similar stuff on the Wii somewhere down the line?

Is there a possibility this could allow the Wii to be multi-region, as thats all I honeslty care about.

 

[Jamesfrom818]

I just want to bypass region coding and possibly get some Flash 9 and Divx support for Opera.

 

[Imperial Hot]

If this is legitimate, this means that any code can be executed on the Wii without any modification to the Wii hardware. They managed to extract the decryption keys, which means they can make any code execute on the Wii, as if it an actual game.

This means that the home-brew community has full access to the Wii hardware without any modification of the hardware. Which means you can expect the works, custom Wii games, emulators, additional software, piracy, etc.

The floodgates are now open, and unfortunately their is no way for Nintendo to stop this. Unlike traditional modifications that require hardware changes that can be detected by the system, this is undetectable which means that Nintendo can't start bricking consoles. They may be able to prevent this key from working in newer updates to the Wii OS, but that is the full extent of what they can do to stop this. Forced updates to play certain games will be Nintendo's only way of preventing this. And at that point it will just be a war of attrition between the home-brew community as they fight to modify these locked games to work on lower firmware.

This could become a major issue for Nintendo.

 

[MiloFoxburr]

They may be able to prevent this key from working in newer updates to the Wii OS, but that is the full extent of what they can do to stop this. Forced updates to play certain games will be Nintendo's only way of preventing this.

Until the new keys are extracted the same way as they managed to get the first set. They'd have to modify the hardware as well to prevent it being possible to read the keys using the hackers methods

 

[gcfan2k5]

If this is legitimate, this means that any code can be executed on the Wii without any modification to the Wii hardware. They managed to extract the decryption keys, which means they can make any code execute on the Wii, as if it an actual game.

This means that the home-brew community has full access to the Wii hardware without any modification of the hardware. Which means you can expect the works, custom Wii games, emulators, additional software, piracy, etc.

The floodgates are now open, and unfortunately their is no way for Nintendo to stop this. Unlike traditional modifications that require hardware changes that can be detected by the system, this is undetectable which means that Nintendo can't start bricking consoles. They may be able to prevent this key from working in newer updates to the Wii OS, but that is the full extent of what they can do to stop this. Forced updates to play certain games will be Nintendo's only way of preventing this. And at that point it will just be a war of attrition between the home-brew community as they fight to modify these locked games to work on lower firmware.

This could become a major issue for Nintendo.

Each game should require its own unique firmware to play, meaing every time you load any game, the firmware gets changed. That would put a quick stop to piracy in all but the most dedicated pirates. This would also not harm the homebrew scene at all. I mean literally every single game has its own firmware and the games engine relies on specific function calls specific to that custom firmware, so hacked firmware breaks the game.

 

[rkenshin]

If this is legitimate, this means that any code can be executed on the Wii without any modification to the Wii hardware. They managed to extract the decryption keys, which means they can make any code execute on the Wii, as if it an actual game.

This means that the home-brew community has full access to the Wii hardware without any modification of the hardware. Which means you can expect the works, custom Wii games, emulators, additional software, piracy, etc.

The floodgates are now open, and unfortunately their is no way for Nintendo to stop this. Unlike traditional modifications that require hardware changes that can be detected by the system, this is undetectable which means that Nintendo can't start bricking consoles. They may be able to prevent this key from working in newer updates to the Wii OS, but that is the full extent of what they can do to stop this. Forced updates to play certain games will be Nintendo's only way of preventing this. And at that point it will just be a war of attrition between the home-brew community as they fight to modify these locked games to work on lower firmware.

This could become a major issue for Nintendo.

Even if they can detect it, they can't really brick systems since MS would've done that a long time ago instead of their Live bannings

 

[gcfan2k5]

Even if they can detect it, they can't really brick systems since MS would've done that a long time ago instead of their Live bannings

They can brick systems if you are using a mod, because the only purpose for a modchip is piracy, at least on Wii. And the only purpose for custom firmware on 360 is piracy.

 

[Golden Darkness]

I would be interested in homebrew if there is going to be media center-type stuff (i.e. stream stuff from my network, read from the SD card, or play DVDs).

 

[JonathanEx]

They can brick systems if you are using a mod, because the only purpose for a modchip is piracy, at least on Wii. And the only purpose for custom firmware on 360 is piracy.

There's a possibility of false positives. Do you really want to be the company that goes around, actually killing the hardware of customers? Fine, ban them from Live, breaking the terms of service: that's fine: but bricking hardware is something they shouldn't go for.

 

[neptunes]

is it legal for a company to brick a system and cease it's primary function?

 

[rkenshin]

They can brick systems if you are using a mod, because the only purpose for a modchip is piracy, at least on Wii. And the only purpose for custom firmware on 360 is piracy.

And like I said, MS "can't" brick their systems for having hacked firmware.. They can only prevent said users to not be able to log into their online service so Nintendo can't do it either, it'll open up the floodgates for a lawsuit when they start bricking the wrong people

 

[border]

They can brick systems if you are using a mod, because the only purpose for a modchip is piracy, at least on Wii..

Legally, I don't know if they can disable your system. There is not any relevant case law or statutory law that says they can. Intentionally updating so that hardware is destroyed opens up the possibility of a class action lawsuit.

It'd be bad PR either way, so neither MS nor Nintendo will be "bricking" any systems intentionally.

 

[JonathanEx]

is it legal for a company to brick a system and cease it functionality?

Whether it's legal or not, it would be a PR disaster. "Nintendo Killed My Wii!" news reports? Nah, that's no good.

 

[gcfan2k5]

And like I said, MS "can't" brick their systems for having hacked firmware.. They can only prevent said users to not be able to log into their online service so Nintendo can't do it either, it'll open up the floodgates for a lawsuit when they start bricking the wrong people

If someone is falsely bricked they call Nintendo, send in their machine, if it hasnt been tampered with it gets unbricked. Its that simple, literally. Everyone else gets what they deserve for trying to steal.

Anyway, they can stop piracy now before it takes off by requiring UNIQUE firmware on a PER GAME basis, so every game has different firmware that it installs and relies on to run.
This would stop 99.99999% of piracy and not do a thing to damage homebrew.

 

[Imperial Hot]

is it legal for a company to brick a system and cease it's primart function?

The PSP bricks if you put homebrew firmware on their sometimes. Whether that is user error, or Sony trying to stick it to the hackers is not known, and won't be known.

Nintendo could easily have it so that the Wii bricks from homebrew and say that it isn't Nintendo intentionally doing it, but that the Wii wasn't designed for this kind of application, and may cause it to break.

 

[Diablohead]

If someone is falsely bricked they call Nintendo, send in their machine, if it hasnt been tampered with it gets unbricked. Its that simple, literally. Everyone else gets what they deserve for trying to steal.

easier said then done.

 

[Jiggy]

I'm not sure how to react. On the one hand, if The Nintendo System of Average (Wii) died off, then The Nintendo System of Awesome (DS) could continue conquering the world, now unchallenged by even her ugly brother (and the 360/PSP and especially PS3 already aren't that threatening), which is good.

On the other... VC and Wii Ware might possibly be the last global stand of 2D gaming on home consoles--"global" because XBLA is irrelevant to Japan and I have no idea about Europe--and that's virtually the Holy Grail to me, so I certainly don't want to see those aspects of Wii fail. :/ Meh.

Maybe GCfan's solution of unique firmware per game would work? Edit: I don't know much in this area.

 

[Sharp]

If someone is falsely bricked they call Nintendo, send in their machine, if it hasnt been tampered with it gets unbricked. Its that simple, literally. Everyone else gets what they deserve for trying to steal.

Anyway, they can stop piracy now before it takes off by requiring UNIQUE firmware on a PER GAME basis, so every game has different firmware that it installs and relies on to run.
This would stop 99.99999% of piracy and not do a thing to damage homebrew.

So every game requires me to reinstall firmware when I run it? That sounds like a shitty solution no matter what.

 

[Tobor]

If someone is falsely bricked they call Nintendo, send in their machine, if it hasnt been tampered with it gets unbricked. Its that simple, literally. Everyone else gets what they deserve for trying to steal.

Anyway, they can stop piracy now before it takes off by requiring UNIQUE firmware on a PER GAME basis, so every game has different firmware that it installs and relies on to run.
This would stop 99.99999% of piracy and not do a thing to damage homebrew.

This is a horrible idea. Reinstalling new firmware every time someone puts in a new game?

 

[neptunes]

Anyway, they can stop piracy now before it takes off by requiring UNIQUE firmware on a PER GAME basis, so every game has different firmware that it installs and relies on to run.
This would stop 99.99999% of piracy and not do a thing to damage homebrew.

Sony does this with the psp and has been quite successful

 

[Imperial Hot]

I am almost certain their isn't much that Nintendo can do to prevent this from becoming a major issue. It is a fundamental flaw in the way the Wii was made, and it is being exploited. I don't think this is something they can easily patch. These guys have undermined the entire protection scheme for the Wii.

 

[MiloFoxburr]

If someone is falsely bricked they call Nintendo, send in their machine, if it hasnt been tampered with it gets unbricked. Its that simple, literally. Everyone else gets what they deserve for trying to steal.

Anyway, they can stop piracy now before it takes off by requiring UNIQUE firmware on a PER GAME basis, so every game has different firmware that it installs and relies on to run.
This would stop 99.99999% of piracy and not do a thing to damage homebrew.

If it's just an application/boot disc there would be no actual tampering that could be detected by Nintendo. Unless it goes like the PSP and Custom Firmwares in which case I'm sure the original could be restored and then sent in. Or even made unbrickable.

And a unique firmware for every game.. Thats bound to piss off people having to install firmware every single time they insert a disc. I know it would annoy the hell out of me regardless of how quick it is.

 

[border]

Even if you have modded your system, it's questionable as to whether or not it is legal for a console maker to disable it.

Anyway, they can stop piracy now before it takes off by requiring UNIQUE firmware on a PER GAME basis, so every game has different firmware that it installs and relies on to run.

The system wasn't designed for this....you can't just implement a new comprehensive anti-piracy scheme a year after launch like that. Nintendo will have to deal with it, just like every other console manufacturer.

 

[gcfan2k5]

Sony does this with the psp and has been quite successful

No i mean literally each specific game has a different firmware that is required for that game to play. Not several firmware versions, a new firmware version per retail title, and reinstallation of that firmware every time the game runs.

 

[Sharp]

I really don't know if this will become a big issue, but I don't see any good way for Nintendo to protect against it. I don't know much about it, though.

 

[rkenshin]

If someone is falsely bricked they call Nintendo, send in their machine, if it hasnt been tampered with it gets unbricked. Its that simple, literally. Everyone else gets what they deserve for trying to steal.

Then tell me why doesn't MS do it?

Stop giving out possible solutions when the only console with piracy bans aren't bricking systems

And sending in a bricked system is a hassle and talking to customer service ain't fun either.. Oh right, plus the waiting, that's really great too

 

[MiloFoxburr]

No i mean literally each specific game has a different firmware that is required for that game to play. Not several firmware versions, a new firmware version per retail title, and reinstallation of that firmware every time the game runs.

So another 2/3 Minutes (Took/Felt that long when I put in Galaxy the other day) Every single time you want to play a game? You actually think thats a good idea on a console mostly focused towards casual players?

 

[border]

No i mean literally each specific game has a different firmware that is required for that game to play. Not several firmware versions, a new firmware version per retail title, and reinstallation of that firmware every time the game runs.

Then that firmware goes onto the DVD-R that the pirate burns, and installs itself because the disc has all the necessary decryption keys. How does this solve the problem?

 

[Christine]

Guitar Hero and Wii Fit look like fucking genius in this light.

 

[The Faceless Master]

If someone is falsely bricked they call Nintendo, send in their machine, if it hasnt been tampered with it gets unbricked. Its that simple, literally. Everyone else gets what they deserve for trying to steal.

Anyway, they can stop piracy now before it takes off by requiring UNIQUE firmware on a PER GAME basis, so every game has different firmware that it installs and relies on to run.
This would stop 99.99999% of piracy and not do a thing to damage homebrew.

how will someone prove their machine hasn't been tampered with when the code runs on an unmdified console off of a disk!

 

[Wario64]

A big issue is when pirates start selling self boot games as legitimate games. There's already a lot of counterfeit GBA games on Ebay, I bet the casual Wii gamer wouldnt tell the difference between a real and fake game as long as it works and looks like a real copy

 

[MiloFoxburr]

I bet the casual Wii gamer wouldnt tell the difference between a real and fake game as long as it works and looks like a real copy

Or care even if they could.

 

[Firestorm]

There are so many idiots in this topic. "omg piracy omg piracy" it was possible about a year ago you monkeys.

So does this mean that we might see some homebrew developer pull off that amazing head tracking thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw

 

[botticus]

I'm sure the magnitude of this (assuming it's as simple and all-encompassing as claimed) will go back to what sort of person owns the console. As has been discussed ad nauseum, the DS is apparently easier to hack than the PSP, yet which one has been overrun by piracy?

I just hope my grandma doesn't find out about this, or Nintendo is in trouble.

 

[Imperial Hot]

If it's just an application/boot disc there would be no actual tampering that could be detected by Nintendo. Unless it goes like the PSP and Custom Firmwares in which case I'm sure the original could be restored and then sent in. Or even made unbrickable.

And a unique firmware for every game.. Thats bound to piss off people having to install firmware every single time they insert a disc. I know it would annoy the hell out of me regardless of how quick it is.

Their is no way Nintendo can detect this, and it allows full access to the Wii's architecture.

This is the home-brew communities collective wet-dream.

 

[The Faceless Master]

A big issue is when pirates start selling self boot games as legitimate games. There's already a lot of counterfeit GBA games on Ebay, I bet the casual Wii gamer wouldnt tell the difference between a real and fake game as long as it works and looks like a real copy

omg inkjet printable disks!

 

[rkenshin]

So this is different than the DC since Sega did stop self booting from working after awhile starting with their Black Dreamcast Sports edition?

 

[Imperial Hot]

There are so many idiots in this topic. "omg piracy omg piracy" it was possible about a year ago you monkeys.

So does this mean that we might see some homebrew developer pull off that amazing head tracking thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw

What you don't understand is that this requires no modification to the Wii? The method for piracy that was released a few months ago required the user to modify the Wii hardware through a mod-chip or some other device. This technique works on all Wiis without and hardware modification. Anyone with a DVD burner and the right software will be able to run pirated games on their Wii.

 

[Tobor]

There are so many idiots in this topic. "omg piracy omg piracy" it was possible about a year ago you monkeys.

So does this mean that we might see some homebrew developer pull off that amazing head tracking thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jd3-eiid-Uw

This is a new type of exploit, never available before, that could potentially allow non-modded homebrew and piracy.

Please pay attention.

 

[Burai]

If someone is falsely bricked they call Nintendo, send in their machine, if it hasnt been tampered with it gets unbricked. Its that simple, literally. Everyone else gets what they deserve for trying to steal.

Do you have any idea of the logistics for such a scheme? For thousands of Wii's to have to be shipped and processed?

No, bricking consoles is a bad, bad, bad, stupid, bad, retarded idea. Nobody knows why their machine stopped working, everyone has a potentially valid excuse "I bought it second hand! I had no idea!" No. Just no. Absolutely retarded.

Even Microsoft has found that their Live bannings aren't 100% reliable - they've had to un-ban a load of systems that have been suffering DRE's because a faulty DVD drive sends the same bad data that a modded one does and under MS' system bad data = instaban.

And the bad press the false positives would bring would pretty much kill the system in the eyes of casuals.

 

[rollingstart]

look, all I want is to play import games on the Wii, is that too much to ask for?

 

[Sharp]

*Shrugs.* I don't really care either way, but I think Wario has the better point given the overwhelmingly casual audience of the Wii. I also see Nintendo fans as the sort of people who probably wouldn't pirate from the mother company, so I think if this has any significant impact on sales it's going to be third-party sales who bear the brunt of it. And with that, I'm out of this thread.

Edit: Okay, one more thing: I don't think VC sales are going to be impacted by this very much, given that anyone buying VC games is already completely unaware of the virtually instantaneous, completely painless piracy available on the PC.

 

[gcfan2k5]

Then that firmware goes onto the DVD-R that the pirate burns, and installs itself because the disc has all the necessary decryption keys. How does this solve the problem?

By each firmware having different decryption keys, thus breaking whichever iso loader they would be using to accomplish loading a backup. They would have to crack the new keys on a per game basis, and thats easier said than done. Hardware changes to prevent future access to the memory modules would solve the issue in the future. Once the firmware was updated, that version of the isoloader thats on the disc would fail to work, at least potentially. The potential isoloader would use keys from a specific game, so it would possibly be detectable (the keys from Lego Star Wars being used to boot Mario Galaxy would set off a red flag in the firmware patch program and the game would refuse to boot etc etc). It would stop the majoirty of the problem.

 

[FilosopherStoner]

So we go from a video of guys showing they can run their own code. We are just taking their word for it? Some people here are talking as if it's already been released and they are playing with it. Do we REALLY know exactly how everything is done? I say we wait for more details before everyone gets their panties in a wad.

Oh and that Wii-remote head tracking thing was the coolest thing I have seen in a long time. I hope more people are working on that software.

 

[smurfx]

As if the majority of the casual crowd that bought a wii even cares or knows about piracy.
I don't see this being as much an issue as it was for Dreamcast.

yes the majority of casuals don't know but there is always that one friend who is a little more tech savvy than them and either knows how to do this or knows somebody. word of mouth will spread if pirating wii games becomes really easy because that one hacker friend is usually always the one that spreads the news to everybody they know.