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Wii U: Not Enough Bandwith?

XtremeXpider

XtremeXpider

Member
lherre said:
GPGPU magic ...

obviously i'm joking
Click to expand...

GPGPU + eDRAM + Nintendo Magic ;)

EDIT:
No, I don't really think there is any "magic", and I think Wii U is more or less PS360 power. Wii U is not an "alien" architecture, it has a multicore CPU (just like the Xbox 360, even PPC in both), a GPU with programable shaders, etc.
 
I

ikioi

Banned
KageMaru said:
There's so much wrong with this post, I'm not sure where to start or if there's even a point considering how your mind is already made up.
Click to expand...

Please do, i'm more then happy to be enlightend and have an educated and respectful discussion on it.
 
D

delta25

Banned
NBtoaster said:
The proof is in the pudding, and currently Wii U titles seem to be bandwidth starved. Choking on transparencies, almost no MSAA use, still sub HD resolutions...
Click to expand...

I was always under the impression 720p was an official HD resolution, and aren't all Wii U exclusives 720p? And wouldn't this if true give the Wii U a clear advantage over the HD twins considering both have a hard time with even 720p.
 
C

chertipros

Member
guek said:
Haha

Gaf seems to completely misunderstand why I and a few others made NES. It literally started out as a summer distraction and a possible forum for several banned gaf members who frequented the IRC. Emily ended up hitting it big out of nowhere with some key interviews and suddenly everyone thought NES was supposed to be some kind of startup gaming journalism site. But really it's just a place where people can submit editorials and have them posted on something a little more formal than a message board. Our "staff" is made up of like 3 people who do work in their spare time. We have zero ads and have no intention of making the site for-profit. All of our articles are amateur submissions.

And now that Emily is no longer writing, it's going to be mostly editorials with an occasional user submitted review. It's relatively easy now for us to net interviews with indie devs but that's about it. NES is not a meant to be professional journalism! It's just a pet project a bunch of people who ad a desire to write put together for fun!
Click to expand...
Wait, why isn't she writing anymore? I liked her writing pieces
 
P

pieatorium

Member
delta25 said:
So considering how hell bent most gamers are with resolution being damn near the crux in all things graphics, wouldn't this give the Wii U a huge advantage over the "HD" twins based on that fact alone?
Click to expand...

There are some 1080p games on those systems aswell
 
JordanN

JordanN

Banned
delta25 said:
So considering how hell bent most gamers are with resolution being damn near the crux in all things graphics, wouldn't this give the Wii U a huge advantage over the "HD" twins based on that fact alone?
Click to expand...
Depends.

1080p by itself doesn't mean much. 1080p delivering better textures, post processing effects, polygons etc than 360/PS3 does.
 
G

guek

Banned
9thwonder said:
What are the chances of wii u receiving 720/ps4 ports? Could it run Agni's philosophy or star wars 1313?
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Sure, but it wouldn't look like it does on those PC demos!

Porting is feasible but whether or not 3rd parties will deem the effort worthwhile is highly in question. It's very likely a lot of them will just find it too big of a hassle for too little pay off.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
omonimo said:
Be more specific, because if you talking of 3D/2D scrolling game is not that tough...
Click to expand...
Assassin’s Creed 3 = 1280x720 (post-AA)
Batman: Arkham City Armoured Edition = 1280x720 (FXAA)
Carl on Duty: Black Ops 2 = 880x720 (2xAA)
Darksiders 2 = 1152x640 (post-AA)
Mass Effect 3: Conrad Edition = 1280x720 (FXAA)
Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate = 1920x1080 (no AA)
New Super Mario Bros. U = 1280x720 (no AA on world map, post-AA in-game)
Ninja Gaiden: Razor’s Edge = dynamic up to 1280x720 (dynamic 2xAA)
Rayman: Legends = 1920x1080 (no AA)
ZombiU = 1280x720 (post-AA)

Nintendo Land = 1280x720 (post-AA)
Nano Assault Neo = 1280x720 (no AA)
Trine 2: Director's Cut = 1280x720 (FXAA)

Tekken Tag Tournament 2 = dynamic 720x720 to 1280x720, mostly 1024x720 with 2 characters in-game (with motion blur), max 900x720 with 3 characters, max 800x720 with 4 characters (no AA in-game, 2xAA for character LED background or no-characters-environment-only/rankings view), more often 1280x720 with 2 characters no motion blur
Courtesy of B3D.
 
O

omonimo

Banned
shinra-bansho said:
Assassin’s Creed 3 = 1280x720 (post-AA)
Batman: Arkham City Armoured Edition = 1280x720 (FXAA)
Carl on Duty: Black Ops 2 = 880x720 (2xAA)
Darksiders 2 = 1152x640 (post-AA)
Mass Effect 3: Conrad Edition = 1280x720 (FXAA)
Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate = 1920x1080 (no AA)
New Super Mario Bros. U = 1280x720 (no AA on world map, post-AA in-game)
Ninja Gaiden: Razor’s Edge = dynamic up to 1280x720 (dynamic 2xAA)
Rayman: Legends = 1920x1080 (no AA)
ZombiU = 1280x720 (post-AA)

Courtesy of B3D.
Click to expand...

The only not feasible in the current gen at 1080p, maybe it's Rayman; I think the only advantage of the WiiU is in the scrolling game, over the others counterparts.
 
S

StreetsAhead

Member
shinra-bansho said:
Assassin’s Creed 3 = 1280x720 (post-AA)
Batman: Arkham City Armoured Edition = 1280x720 (FXAA)
Carl on Duty: Black Ops 2 = 880x720 (2xAA)
Darksiders 2 = 1152x640 (post-AA)
Mass Effect 3: Conrad Edition = 1280x720 (FXAA)
Monster Hunter 3 Ultimate = 1920x1080 (no AA)
New Super Mario Bros. U = 1280x720 (no AA on world map, post-AA in-game)
Ninja Gaiden: Razor’s Edge = dynamic up to 1280x720 (dynamic 2xAA)
Rayman: Legends = 1920x1080 (no AA)
ZombiU = 1280x720 (post-AA)

Nintendo Land = 1280x720 (post-AA)
Nano Assault Neo = 1280x720 (no AA)
Trine 2: Director's Cut = 1280x720 (FXAA)

Tekken Tag Tournament 2 = dynamic 720x720 to 1280x720, mostly 1024x720 with 2 characters in-game (with motion blur), max 900x720 with 3 characters, max 800x720 with 4 characters (no AA in-game, 2xAA for character LED background or no-characters-environment-only/rankings view), more often 1280x720 with 2 characters no motion blur
Courtesy of B3D.
Click to expand...

I *think* Scribblenauts and Dragon Quest X are 1080p too.
 
S

shinra-bansho

Member
delta25 said:
But as far as I can tell the Wii U can achieve both resolutions with relative ease, especially 720p, whereas both the PS3 and 360 have the hardest time with even just 720p let alone 1080p.
Click to expand...
This seems something of a hyperbole for both bolded.

If the Wii U was capable of 1080p with ease, we'd be seeing more than two games on it at 1080p. As it stands there are a few titles, not particularly graphically intensive and/or up-ports. And we wouldn't be seeing sub-HD games on it.

If the PS3 and 360 had the hardest time reaching 720p, then the majority of their games wouldn't be 720p, which a quick look at the list of rendering resolutions suggests.
 
D

delta25

Banned
shinra-bansho said:
If the PS3 and 360 had the hardest time reaching 720p, then the majority of their games wouldn't be 720p, which a quick look at the list of rendering resolutions suggests.
Click to expand...

I know Sony has a few but I was only ever aware of Halo 4 being the only major exclusive for the 360 to have full 720p, whereas the Wii U has all its games including 3rd party ones running at a full 720p and 1080p out of the gates, was this the same for the 360/ps3, besides a few XBLA and PSN exclusives?
 
A

ASIS

Member
DieH@rd said:
Relative good news. Its not as bad as we though it was, but its still bad for 2012 console.
Click to expand...

Ok, relative good news, that's still better than any Wii news by far :p
I'm just kinda depressed how messed up the whole thing is
Moral Panic said:
Not really good news, just speculation and supposition.
Click to expand...

If I understand correctly, only a small part of it is assumption, not all of it. Not that it matters I didn't understand any of it other than "its not as bad as you think".
 
G

guek

Banned
9thwonder said:
Why isn't rayman feasible on current gen?
Click to expand...

Well not identically as is. Ancel has stated that working on Wii U feels like there are no memory limitations (presumably contrasting the work he did for rayman on PS360). Some assets just might be higher res but they could probably downport it with virtually no discernable difference.
 
N

NBtoaster

Member
delta25 said:
I know Sony has a few but I was only ever aware of Halo 4 being the only major exclusive for the 360 to have full 720p, whereas as the Wii U has all its games including 3rd party ones running at a full 720p and 1080p out of the gates, was this the same for the 360/ps3. outside a few XBLA and PSN exclusives
Click to expand...

Gears, Forza, Crackdown games are also full 720p.

Wii U also has games at sub HD. Not exclusives at the moment it seems, but multiplatform games can still be indicative of hardware weaknesses.
 
I

ikioi

Banned
NBtoaster said:
Wii U also has games at sub HD. Not exclusives at the moment it seems, but multiplatform games can still be indicative of hardware weaknesses.
Click to expand...

The Xbox 360 and PS3 also have a number of games, even late gen, at sub HD.

I don't believe current multiplatform games can be considered indicative of the system's capabilities. Developers have had years to master the Xbox 360 and PS3's architecture, and the tool kits and engines have had years of optimisations and enchancements. The Wii U in comparison is no where near that level of maturity, from developer experience through to maturity of dev kit tools.

Its promising however that multi platform games like Trine 2 are superior graphically on the Wii U vs Xbox 360 and PS3.
 
XtremeXpider

XtremeXpider

Member
delta25 said:
I know Sony has a few but I was only ever aware of Halo 4 being the only major exclusive for the 360 to have full 720p, whereas the Wii U has all its games including 3rd party ones running at a full 720p and 1080p out of the gates, was this the same for the 360/ps3, besides a few XBLA and PSN exclusives?
Click to expand...

What? even first Xbox have some 720p games. A few? lol...

The Wii U in comparison is no where near that level of maturity, from developer experience through to maturity of dev kit tools.
Click to expand...

Xbox 360 and PS3 was a greater "change" (talking about differences between last and next gen) and both showed a big jump.
 
S

shinobi602

Member
9thwonder said:
What are the chances of wii u receiving 720/ps4 ports? Could it run Agni's philosophy or star wars 1313?
Click to expand...

mVnQc.gif
 
N

NBtoaster

Member
ikioi said:
The Xbox 360 and PS3 also have a number of games, even late gen, at sub HD.

I don't believe current multiplatform games can be considered indicative of the system's capabilities. Developers have had years to master the Xbox 360 and PS3's architecture, and the tool kits and engines have had years of optimisations and enchancements. The Wii U in comparison is no where near that level of maturity, from developer experience through to maturity of dev kit tools.

Its promising however that multi platform games like Trine 2 are superior graphically on the Wii U vs Xbox 360 and PS3.
Click to expand...

Multiplatforms won't be indicative of the full capabilities, but they can show some strengths and weaknesses. Exclusive games will attempt to hide weaknesses and leverage stengths and so aren't fully revealing of all parts of the hardware either.

Tools and experience will improve of course, but some problems can only be imporved so much. PS3 games have never really found a way to eliminate it's bandwidth problems other than to settle for worse quality or to design games differently.
 
O

omonimo

Banned
ikioi said:
The Xbox 360 and PS3 also have a number of games, even late gen, at sub HD.

I don't believe current multiplatform games can be considered indicative of the system's capabilities. Developers have had years to master the Xbox 360 and PS3's architecture, and the tool kits and engines have had years of optimisations and enchancements. The Wii U in comparison is no where near that level of maturity, from developer experience through to maturity of dev kit tools.

Its promising however that multi platform games like Trine 2 are superior graphically on the Wii U vs Xbox 360 and PS3.
Click to expand...

I don't want to destroy your hopes but there is a big chance to see more sub720p games even on the WiiU in the future... It avoid tiling in the edram & guarantee more steady fps, it's almost a key of success to optimize a lot of the bottleneck.
 
O

OG_Original Gamer

Member
shinra-bansho said:
This seems something of a hyperbole for both bolded.

If the Wii U was capable of 1080p with ease, we'd be seeing more than two games on it at 1080p. As it stands there are a few titles, not particularly graphically intensive and/or up-ports. And we wouldn't be seeing sub-HD games on it.

If the PS3 and 360 had the hardest time reaching 720p, then the majority of their games wouldn't be 720p, which a quick look at the list of rendering resolutions suggests.
Click to expand...


The problem is the WiiU is not a brute force console, you can't just throw any game code at it and expect 1080p at 30fps. You have to optimize code for the architecture, (CPU, memory, DSP, and GPU). I doubt you'll see many technically demanding games at 1080p, if any IMO. I wish Nintendo added at least one additional core to the CPU.
 
P

Projectjustice

Banned
omonimo said:
I don't want to destroy your hopes but there is a big chance to see more sub720p games even on the WiiU in the future... It avoid tiling in the edram & guarantee more steady fps, it's almost a key of success to optimize a lot of the bottleneck.
Click to expand...

So are you current making any games on the Wii U?
 
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