Pre-ordered but ended up returning it. I'll buy one in 3 years when there are more than 5 games i'd want to play on it.
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Wii U sales compared to PS2, 360, PS3, & Wii - Not doomed
- Thread starter Mr.Squirrel
- Start date
Pre-ordered but ended up returning it. I'll buy one in 3 years when there are more than 5 games i'd want to play on it.
Oh totally. I'm not trying to say the december numbers weren't weak. It's possible to look at all of this from multiple vantage points in order to create a complex analysis of the situation. It's possible to consider performance within the context of wii u beating all other HD consoles in nov+dec ALONGSIDE the fact that those other HD consoles were supply constrained (at least the 360 was, not so much the PS3). It requires a bit of critical thinking outside of the confines of a binary "good or bad" but I think all the facts are worth contemplating, not just a select few.
Okay, for fun, go through either the Wii U Launch Sales Age - What went wrong? or the NPD December 2012 Sales Results and point to me one post that says non-ironically that the Wii U/Nintendo is doomed.
I suspect you won't find a single person saying it seriously. The majority of its use is from Nintendo fans trying to mischaracterize the other side's argument.
Mr.Squirrel
Tom
I'm not saying it's a 1:1 comparison. I just wanted to point out that despite the rhetoric constantly spouted about the Wii U, it's actual doing just fine.
The HW sales shows it's at least in line with previous HW launches and the 360 outselling it isn't an indicator that the Wii U is weak since the PS2 outsold the 360 regularly.
TheDrowningMan
Member
Sales are disappointing, sure. It's readily available, it's in no danger of selling out. I would, however, say that Europe is expected because it just hasn't been pushed, and aa far as the UK goes, isn't even stocked in many branches of the biggest gaming retailers (supermarkets). Really odd / foolish strategy on Nintendo's part.
However, people forget just how mediocre HD sales in general were post-launch and pre-price drops last time around. If the supply is there, I would expect at least one of the other two to launch stronger than Wii U (I reckon that the other will be a comparative dud and if it sells respectably, it'll be through attrition ala PS3) but taper off even more significantly until the price begins to slide.
Of course, if we get a shock > $300 launch, that changes everything.
However, people forget just how mediocre HD sales in general were post-launch and pre-price drops last time around. If the supply is there, I would expect at least one of the other two to launch stronger than Wii U (I reckon that the other will be a comparative dud and if it sells respectably, it'll be through attrition ala PS3) but taper off even more significantly until the price begins to slide.
Of course, if we get a shock > $300 launch, that changes everything.
The fact that a thread like this is created means public reception and sales for the Wii-U are pretty mediocre or not really good. Not saying this thread is useless or shouldn't have been made, it's just if there's a narrative going on where people are going "Guys, it isn't doing terrible, it's better than all the rest before it!", that means things aren't going swimmingly.
Davey Cakes
Member
Yeah, this is the attitude you see around a lot. Some vocal gamers want the Nintendo equivalent of the strongest console on the market. A tank of a console that comes with a standard controller and puts out games with state of the art graphics and physics. It's very selfish and unrealistic considering Nintendo's failings in the past with using this model (or a similar one).
It's happening now, and it happened with the Wii. Folks can't wrap their head around the fact that having three console makers with almost the exact same games is boring and just doesn't work for Nintendo anymore anyway. Since the Wii, Nintendo has been providing an alternative gaming experience and as a multiple-console owner, I can very much appreciate their efforts at diversification.
You still hear people talking about the Wii U like it's just a carbon copy of the X360/PS3 but has less games and is more expensive (thus not worth buying). This baffles me because, while the Gamepad is no Wii Remote, the Wii U is still following in the footsteps of the Wii in terms of providing a fully-integrated innovation (the Gamepad) which happens to bring costs up.
Nintendo will never again be the same in terms of their approach to the market. They will always try something different to combat the competition and will not repeat the Gamecube.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
How does it compare to the Dreamcast?
TheNatural
My Member!
Don't let little things like the laws of supply and demand get in your way OP.
Love these uninformed statements of comparison.
Do people need to be hit over the head with a hammer to realize that the Wii U is within the same price range of the 360, a 7 year old console, and got TRIPLED in sales in December? Launch period with plenty on the shelves and getting destroyed is not good.
It's not like this is an issue of current gen vs. next gen and people purchasing the older consoles because they were ridiculously cheaper, like the PS2 vs. 360, or even when Wii came out and was considerably cheaper than the main SKU's of the 360 and especially the PS3. Hell, what do you think is going to happen if Microsoft and Sony actually got the PS3 and 360 in budget range of $150 and $200? It could get worse! It's not even a budget system yet!
But yeah, keep rolling out those apples and oranges. When Wii U releases a total of about 4 games or so period the next four months and it's competitors have a dozen or so blockbusters on the way just in the first half, maybe you'll see the writing on the wall that this is a disaster.
Love these uninformed statements of comparison.
Do people need to be hit over the head with a hammer to realize that the Wii U is within the same price range of the 360, a 7 year old console, and got TRIPLED in sales in December? Launch period with plenty on the shelves and getting destroyed is not good.
It's not like this is an issue of current gen vs. next gen and people purchasing the older consoles because they were ridiculously cheaper, like the PS2 vs. 360, or even when Wii came out and was considerably cheaper than the main SKU's of the 360 and especially the PS3. Hell, what do you think is going to happen if Microsoft and Sony actually got the PS3 and 360 in budget range of $150 and $200? It could get worse! It's not even a budget system yet!
But yeah, keep rolling out those apples and oranges. When Wii U releases a total of about 4 games or so period the next four months and it's competitors have a dozen or so blockbusters on the way just in the first half, maybe you'll see the writing on the wall that this is a disaster.
metalslimer
Member
The January drop is going to be painful to watch.
Baconsammy
Banned
Compare all you want, but if you can't do it competently it sorta nullifies the entire point of doing it. At this point it's just "Hey look at their numbers, now look at Wii U numbers. Nintendo is fine, leave them alone!" So many variables that have to be considered when you make a comparison like this. To be honest, the thread feels like a result of a persecution complex. I'm sure some people that don't like Nintendo are celebrating the less than stellar numbers, but there's also a great many people without silly allegiances that are simply commenting on the situation and using Nintendo's own estimates for sales as a measuring stick for success.
Kacho
Member
My comment has little to do with actual numbers (which no one will argue are good for Vita in any way), and more to do with the apparent mindset of the standard GAF Nintendo fan that literally can't stomach seeing negative criticism of the company or its products and their sales despite their propensity to revel and troll other manufacturer's hardware relentlessly. Can dish it out, but sure as hell can't take it.
All next-gen consoles will perform lower than last-gen.
People are drowning in debt from the pointless expensive shit they bought in the last 5-10 years, plus all their iDevices.
I think the cheapest option of all, 3DS, is going to be the big winner this decade... and so talk of Nintendo being doomed is incredibly myopic.
People are drowning in debt from the pointless expensive shit they bought in the last 5-10 years, plus all their iDevices.
I think the cheapest option of all, 3DS, is going to be the big winner this decade... and so talk of Nintendo being doomed is incredibly myopic.
metalslimer
Member
The funny thing is the "What went wrong thread" was made by someone who really like Nintendo and is probably one of the more optimistic people on the system's outlook. But hey let's just keep pretending anyone concerned is a Nintendo hater who wants Nintendo to go 3rd party.
Mr.Squirrel
Tom
There has to first be an actual discussion though? From the threads I've come across, I keep seeing the same points posted:
The Wii U is selling poorly
The 360 selling more than the Wii U proves the Wii U is a failure
Nintendo has nothing lined up for H2 2013
The first 2 points are easily proven to be false. The Wii U is selling well and cheaper, mature HW always outsells the more expensive console.
The last point is actually valid. Nintendo or their 3rd parties really haven't announced much for H2 2013. I'm assuming that their policy is to only announce games 3-6 months close to their release, but only those working or Nintendo and other 3rd party pubs knows the answer to this one.
I don't think this is so black and white either. Of the top 10 selling games for the year, 6 were available on Wii U, 3 were out before the Wii U hit (though an argument for a late port of Borderlands 2 may be there) and 1 was a console exclusive (Halo 4).
It's far from rosy based on leaked sales numbers for those games and upcoming release lists, but 6/10 top games for the year being available and 7/10 of December's top games should count for something. The big publishers supported the Wii U with their top 2012 games. We'll know more about 2013 at E3.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
No, nobody is using the word "DOOMED" unironically.
You don't have to look that far for insane hyperbole though for what is - at worst - an underwhelming launch.
Steve Youngblood
Member
I'm pretty sure that it's performing below Nintendo's own expectations. I'm not privy to that information personally, but I've seen plenty of hearsay to that effect, and there are a number of other factors to consider in concluding that.
1.) December usually sells 1.5 - 2x November's numbers barring supply constraints. Wii U sold 1.08x November.
2.) It didn't even manage to match PS3's December. A console not regarded for its great launch and was incredibly expensive.
3.) Nintendo waited until NPDs were released to announce figures, as opposed to trumpeting results like they did for launch week.
4.) Iwata could only argue that numbers were "steady."
5.) Projections were 5.5 million by April, and there's no indication that it'll come close to that.
Exactly. This really does feel like the PS3 launch. If I remember correctly, they were pretty easy to find, too, and even so, it was actually doing better than the Wii U is right now, even though the price was way, way, higher.
And I think it goes without saying that you don't want your launch being compared to the PS3. That thing was stillborn at first. Sony weathered the storm and improved their situation, but it has been difficult.
Mr.Squirrel
Tom
If the Wii U's sales numbers aren't great, then neither was the 360 or PS3. No one knows how many consoles the PS3 and 360 would have sold if they weren't supply constrained. All we can go on is the data we actually have. The Wii U sold more consoles in it's first 2 months the 360 sold in it's first 3.
If the Wii U is selling poorly, then last gens launch was just as abysmal.
Are they?
Furthermore, just the way you listed out these arguments and excluded others shows me you're already operating under a filter that's particularly favorable to one side - to the point of defensiveness - and likes to hyperbolize the other side's arguments.
Davey Cakes
Member
The thread deserves to exist purely on the basis of providing perspective in a sea of negativity.
The way that some people are posting in this thread, you'd think that the only valid approach to the Wii U is criticism. GAF breeds negativity more than positivity. Any time someone tries to alleviate some of the negativity by providing actual sales numbers or positive personal experiences with the console, it's seen as damage control and fanboy behavior and that's not really fair.
It's obvious that Nintendo has problems with the Wii U right now, but that doesn't mean there aren't both sides to the equation and that both sides deserve to be represented.
If you look at the console as a 360/PS3 competitor, which is what Nintendo is TRYING to push it as, its sales are a failure. But as a "next-gen console" or "secondary console", it's doing okay.... I guess lol. Opinions will change when it sells like 200k next month.
Is there ANYTHING coming out on Wii U until E3 that will move units? Third party games? First party?
Pikmin, Rayman and Wonderful 101, despite what look to be awesome games, aren't going to sell shit. Game and Wario? Do people care about that? Wii Fit U? Do people want another balance board, the peripheral gathering dust in many Wii owners homes?
It's looking real grim for this thing. It would be wise for Nintendo to announce new Wii U games before E3 to at least create some hype. The new consoles will dominate the show at E3 in the eyes of the press.
Pikmin, Rayman and Wonderful 101, despite what look to be awesome games, aren't going to sell shit. Game and Wario? Do people care about that? Wii Fit U? Do people want another balance board, the peripheral gathering dust in many Wii owners homes?
It's looking real grim for this thing. It would be wise for Nintendo to announce new Wii U games before E3 to at least create some hype. The new consoles will dominate the show at E3 in the eyes of the press.
Version 3.0
Member
Why not compare it to the last home console launches that were not at all supply-constrained, those being the Gamecube and Xbox? Could it be because it doesn't compare well with those?
November 2001
Xbox: 711,619
Gamecube: 647,466
December 2001
Xbox: 690,817
Gamecube: 558,200
Both of these are considerably higher than the Wii U - and therefore the 360 and PS3 as well. What does this mean?
Maybe not much, but it clearly demonstrates that comparing supply-constrained launches with non-supply-constrained launches is meaningless.
November 2001
Xbox: 711,619
Gamecube: 647,466
December 2001
Xbox: 690,817
Gamecube: 558,200
Both of these are considerably higher than the Wii U - and therefore the 360 and PS3 as well. What does this mean?
Maybe not much, but it clearly demonstrates that comparing supply-constrained launches with non-supply-constrained launches is meaningless.
UltraMagnanimous
Member
This thread needs more graphs.
Mr.Squirrel
Tom
I'll just point out I'm not even really a huge Nintendo fan. I own 4 Wii games and 31 PS3 games and I don't own a Wii U.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Well, for starters, nobody argues that the PS3 launch wasn't poor. Why are you trumpeting beating that. Secondly, if there's something to your suggestion about raw 360 numbers being meaningful in terms of long-term demand, the January and February numbers will back you up. My prediction? They won't. I'll go on record as stating that.
The overall point is that you are trying to definitively undermine analysis about the Wii U's launch success or failure by simply offering numbers that are completely devoid of context. And you can't deny that. You are making precisely zero effort to take into account the circumstances surrounding these numbers.
Kacho
Member
Definitely not. Though, Nintendo can certainly turn things around for the Wii U, much like Sony did with the PS3. I'd even argue that Nintendo has the ability to turn things around faster than Sony did with the PS3 thanks to first-party software alone.
Aquamarine
Member
People need to realize here that EVERY SINGLE CONSOLE gets the whole "X is DOOOOOOMMMMED" nonsense.
It's a guilty until proven innocent kind of deal here. Just consider it a natural, healthy part of every new console release.
metalslimer
Member
Or how software sales are also below the gamecube.
They do, and that's why many people are wondering where Nintendo's big guns are for Wii U, but people are interpreting this as haters who only want Nintendo to fail.
Mr.Squirrel
Tom
This. The Xbox 360 will be outselling the PS4 and 720. Why? Because cheap hardware and a 7 year library always wins.
Steve Youngblood
Member
And you think this lone factor will lead to people calling the new consoles doomed? This conversation is very tedious.
The worst part about the Wii U being so divisively received on GAF is that it puts me in a position of liking Nintendo but having to acknowledge that they aren't doing as well as they would probably like. I wish they would be doing better, but I have to respect reality.
I don't think some people are willing to do that.
Nintendo wants 5.5 million Wii Us by the end of their fiscal year in March. They're probably about halfway there now, with the biggest shopping season behind them and with virtually nothing coming out these next few months. That indicates to me that they're probably going to miss their own forecasts.
How can that be seen as a "success" or even "healthy"?
All the OP is doing (and similar threads to his) is adding some false equivalence of "fairness" to the discussion.
I agree, and they also have the potential for much more price flexibility much faster than Sony and MS last gen...
I think they could get this thing down to 250 very quickly, even with the tech in the controller, if they wanted to be aggressive.
gutter_trash
Banned
3rd parties will decide if the Wii U lives or not
metalslimer
Member
Well Sony and MS probably won't be dumb enough to project themselves shipping nearly as much. And those launches will be heavily supply constrained anyway.
Not at all. It's up to Nintendo at this point.
Davey Cakes
Member
This is true. Sony's console had a rough start but ending up eventually overtaking the X360 worldwide. Nintendo hasn't completely lost their brand power so maybe they can turn things around in the coming months (or years). We just have to admit that the Wii U will not be a phenomenon like the Wii.
Basically.
Look at the 3DS and Vita. One recovered from it's doomed status, one didn't.
You're gonna have to prove your worth, Wii U!
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
That and the backlash when people see them being less powerful and more expensive than they have mentally set the bar for.
EDIT:
I don't think anybody was expecting that after its first showing.
Steve Youngblood
Member
To be fair, I do think preemptively calling for supply shortages is rather disingenuous. We'll see what happens. I wouldn't be surprised to see supply problems. However, calling for them a year in advance to explain potentially low sales doesn't make for very sincere discussion.
I thought i wanted a Wii U....now i am not so sure.
I was burned by the 3ds and Vita launches. Even though the vita has come around in terms of how often i play it. I do somewhat regret both purchases. I have not bought the wii u in an attempt to rid myself of wanting new tech for the sake of new tech. Wii U isn't a product i "Need" at this point.
I was burned by the 3ds and Vita launches. Even though the vita has come around in terms of how often i play it. I do somewhat regret both purchases. I have not bought the wii u in an attempt to rid myself of wanting new tech for the sake of new tech. Wii U isn't a product i "Need" at this point.
The last 5 years were just an elaborate troll to build credibility so that when the day came I could declare my Nintendo hate without repercussions. Muahhhhh
Nightstick11
Banned
Wii U launch was decent, as every sane person knows. Despite the persistence of the myth of a 360 "shortage" at launch, Wii U far outperformed every other launch but Wii and PS2. By March though sales might fall off a cliff.
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