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[HylianTom]

An excuse like this.....

"Wii U is kind of a special case. The way the player interacts with the device is very different than any other device out there. So if I were to make a game for the Wii U, it would have to be a unique game."

I was asking for that wasn't I?

Except you forgot one part of the quote.

".. it would have to be a unique game. Thanks for asking. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm on my way to my lawyer's offices right now. We're drawing-up bankruptcy paperwork today. Yippee!"

There. That sounds more like it.

 

[Agent Unknown]

Wii sales dipping mad low. Building off what Y2Kev said here:


it just puts into perspective how tricky things could be for nintendo if it DOESN'T catch fire from the start.

They will need insane marketing + system seller title (exclusive) + low price to even have a chance of creating some momentum right from the start.

But if it doesn't, it could spell disaster because the Wii brand is already waning, and will continue to for a few plenty of months to come. If the Wii-U doesn't hit high from the start and the waning continues....could be a bad spot to be in. Keep in mind I'm saying those 3 are needed just for a CHANCE. It's a tough spot for sure. don't expect them to catch lightning in a bottle again but the question is how far lower will it go.

But of course desperate nintendo is always good nintendo.

Yup, Wii brand is not as strong as before which is why I will again insist in my assertion that a Super Mario title is urgently needed at launch. They can't afford to push Mario into next year this time like they always do. That NSMB Mii demo may not have looked pretty but you better hope it's from a real game and that the team who made it has been working night and day since E3 to finish it. Pikmin 3, a few other lower tier in house games/Nintendogs, ect and some third party ports will not give the system the momentum it needs. Something I posted from the last thread (with a few small additions):

Hypothetical example of why Mario is needed at launch:

Soccer mom goes into Best Buy during launch.

"Oh what's this Wii U system, that looks kind of interesting. Does it play Wii games?"

Sales guy: "It sure does and it has a tablet controller."

Soccer Mom: "Oh, and that looks cute, what game is this."

Sales guy: "That's Pikmin 3. It's a strategy game with little plant people."

Soccer Mom: "Can the family play it together?"

Sales guy: "Well, I think it has an optional 2 player mode."

Soccer Mom: "Hmmmm, ok. Oh well, I think I'll get my son an IPad instead and he can just keep his regular Wii which he still plays a lot, we all still play that Wii Party game too. But what's this new Super Mario game, will that play on the old Wii?"

Sales guy: "No, that will only play on the new Wii U system."

Soccer mom: "Oh really? My son is going to want to play that for sure and his sisters like Mario too. How much is the Wii U system again?"

System sale gained. Other scenario with Pikmin 3, Nintendogs type fare, third party ports and no Mario game quite possibly = iPad sale plus one instead.

 

[GameplayWhore]

Wanna know my take on Nintendo's most likely path?
Outlive the other console maker(s) so that you're one of last ones standing. If a development house wants their games to sell more than triple-digits in their home country, they have a clear choice in some situations. Hmm.

Or, in more Nintenterms, "Pursue consistent ongoing profits while making products which appeal to a wide range of potential customers".

Granted, they're hiccupping a little with respect to profits this year, but I think they'll stay on that track as soon as the massive initial outlay phase is done.

 

[HylianTom]

Or, in more Nintenterms, "Pursue consistent ongoing profits while making products which appeal to a wide range of potential customers".

Granted, they're hiccupping a little with respect to profits this year, but I think they'll stay on that track as soon as the massive initial outlay phase is done.

They'll be fine after this little bump, as you said. This is normally the low point in their stock/business cycle. Always darkest before dawn!

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I don't know. Nintendo's in a better position, but devs still have a choice in the console space. For Japanese games, they still have the PS3. For Western games, they can stick to the 360 and claim that the Wii U is "too unique and needs games custom made for its controller", and then a year later they can switch over to "it's too slow for a next generation game". It might affect them negatively to ignore a decent percentage of possible buyers, and some [more] of the dev houses might go bankrupt, but it's still an option, and it's even generally a survivable option.

that's why I said nintendo has to put in work, that includes moneyhatting if necessary, regardless of how unfair it is that they even have to, that means creating partnerships and all that, and so on.

You basically can't risk ANYTHING and can't assume anything if you're nintendo. You have to check every single box hard, leave no excuse for anybody, and it will be a success. But only hit some boxes, or do this here and that there, and then who knows what will happen.

 

[axisofweevils]

BTW, @BitTrip tweeted this:

RT @bittrip What Wii U features would you like to see on the OFF CHANCE that we bring Runner2 to the platform?

 

[Indyana]

that's why I said nintendo has to put in work, that includes moneyhatting if necessary, regardless of how unfair it is that they even have to, that means creating partnerships and all that, and so on.

You basically can't risk ANYTHING and can't assume anything if you're nintendo. You have to check every single box hard, leave no excuse for anybody, and it will be a success. But only hit some boxes, or do this here and that there, and then who knows what will happen.

But you can't check every box. Kojima for example. Konami told him to do the game for Wii U and he said, maybe when I do something unique. So how can Nintendo check that box?

 

[HylianTom]

that's why I said nintendo has to put in work, that includes moneyhatting if necessary, regardless of how unfair it is that they even have to, that means creating partnerships and all that, and so on.

You basically can't risk ANYTHING and can't assume anything if you're nintendo. You have to check every single box hard, leave no excuse for anybody, and it will be a success. But only hit some boxes, or do this here and that there, and then who knows what will happen.

I see this as a game of chess, where the third party is the opposing King, and the "excuses" are any means by which to escape "check." Nintendo will have to bolt-down any possible escape route in order to capture third parties; they will have to checkmate this game.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

But you can't check every box. Kojima for example. Konami told him to do the game for Wii U and he said, maybe when I do something unique. So how can Nintendo check that box?

I'm not speaking on games currently in development, even though it's dumb in some cases I can understand developers wanting to focus their remaining time on completing what they have and not think about porting.

But future titles. Kojima likely hasn't even started the next MGS game (assuming his ogre isn't that), so nintendo needs to it in their heads before they start making it, so there is no excuse since they haven't done anything yet.

Notice all my examples were games not in development yet, like the next FF (after versus), next real MGS, and so on.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

Somebody has to explain this check the box thing to me

 

[Indyana]

I'm not speaking on games currently in development, even though it's dumb in some cases I can understand developers wanting to focus their remaining time on completing what they have and not think about porting.

But future titles. Kojima likely hasn't even started the next MGS game (assuming his ogre isn't that), so nintendo needs to it in their heads before they start making it, so there is no excuse since they haven't done anything yet.

Notice all my examples were games not in development yet, like the next FF (after versus), next real MGS, and so on.

For future titles it doesn't matter that much. If Wii U games sell, then the future games should come. The problem is in its first months in the market.

 

[AzaK]

it's funny, I would have said that in order to get the most japanese support you'd need to have the best selling console in japan by far, except don't they kind of have that now? And Sony is still killin em in japan.

Which leads to an even bigger challenge for nintendo. If they want an ecosystem where consumers are buying all kinds of games from all kinds of devs, they're going to totally need to revamp their image from casual console to gamers console. But I think Nintendo doesn't want to alienate the casual crowd so......I don't know how they're going going to do it. The Wii-U is their attempt at having their cake and eating it too, but that's much easier said than done.

Obviously games and gamer oriented features (Great eshop etc) is where it will count the most but I hope they don't underestimate aesthetics. I imagine Nintendo, in their desire to keep the casual crowd, will keep the thing white and keep the interface very sterile and friendly like the Wii was.

I don't know. Nintendo's in a better position, but devs still have a choice in the console space. For Japanese games, they still have the PS3. For Western games, they can stick to the 360 and claim that the Wii U is "too unique and needs games custom made for its controller", and then a year later they can switch over to "it's too slow for a next generation game". It might affect them negatively to ignore a decent percentage of possible buyers, and some [more] of the dev houses might go bankrupt, but it's still an option, and it's even generally a survivable option.

They have their work cut out for them that's for sure. Especially while P60 are still selling strong and supported fully by publishers. Short of Nintendo moneyhatting or a developer capitalising on the "new platform" feel (Ubisoft), there's no incentive to make the Wii U version that much better than P60. Essentially the Wii U will probably just be another "current gen" platform as far as developers go until the new MS/Sony consoles come out. Then, assuming Wii U can hold its own it might be in a great position as developers will make their games to run on Wii U and just port straight to the Durango/Orbis.

 

[GameplayWhore]

I see this as a game of chess, where the third party is the opposing King, and the "excuses" are any means by which to escape "check." Nintendo will have to bolt-down any possible escape route in order to capture third parties; they will have to checkmate this game.

The only way to do that is to either make the competition irrelevant or do pretty much every single thing that third parties demand (for instance, used game lockouts).

 

[HylianTom]

Notice all my examples were games not in development yet, like the next FF (after versus), next real MGS, and so on.

It fits with my chess metaphor pretty well. When you're maneuvering in search of checkmate, you're preventing future movement to spaces where you don't want your target to go.

 

[AzaK]

Somebody has to explain this check the box thing to me

Last year's E3, that's pretty much all Reggie said to any feature.

"Check those boxes!"

 

[GameplayWhore]

Somebody has to explain this check the box thing to me

Last year, in Reggie's post-presentation E3 interview, Reggie explained that Nintendo is "checking all the boxes" for their next gen system. "Online? Check! HD? Check!". It's a nice way of ducking actually detailed questions.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

It fits with my chess metaphor pretty well. When you're maneuvering in search of checkmate, you're preventing future movement to spaces where you don't want your target to go.

exactly. And I know it's impossible for any company to play a "PERFECT" game of chess, the PS2 was beyond lightning in a bottle, but Nintendo can still win, they just have to play a damn strong game.

But I always have this lingering doubt about nintendo, yes they do great things and put out great games but on the consumer services end, on the business end (relationships wise), they seem to be a bit clueless/lackadaisical/whatever word you want to use. I'm hearing them and it SOUNDS like they learned their lessons, but for some reason I'm having a hard time believing it. I know that time will well but as of now, that's how I feel about it all.

 

[Nilaul]

But you can't check every box. Kojima for example. Konami told him to do the game for Wii U and he said, maybe when I do something unique. So how can Nintendo check that box?

Well these are the options (choose wiselly):

A:: Nintendo kidnaps his son, inorder to force him to make whatever his making on Wii U
B:: Nintendo buys the metal gear IP, forcing him to go Nintendo exclusive Mwa ha ha
C:: Nintendo bribes his Son with candy, so that he can bribe his dad.

 

[GameplayWhore]

For future titles it doesn't matter that much. If Wii U games sell, then the future games should come. The problem is in its first months in the market.

In the first few months of the market, "hardcore" games sold pretty well on the Wii, even though they were generally terrible or glitchy or feature-starved portdowns from other platforms (or a combination thereof!). Two of their first person shooters were considered rather underwhelming yet went on to become million sellers (If I remember correctly, Red Steel and -- eventually -- Call of Duty 3). One of them (CoD) was a multiplatform release, and the Wii version sold much better than the PS3 version.

This did not define the rest of the generation.

 

[Linkhero1]

Just got home from class. Any new rumors today?

 

[Redford]

I am a psychic: Ace will be here shortly to explain why we don't need a Mario game at launch.

And it's a shame that some of you didn't go multiconsole. You missed out on some good games, at least if you didn't have a gaming PC.

 

[HylianTom]

exactly. And I know it's impossible for any company to play a "PERFECT" game of chess, the PS2 was beyond lightning in a bottle, but Nintendo can still win, they just have to play a damn strong game.

But I always have this lingering doubt about nintendo, yes they do great things and put out great games but on the consumer services end, on the business end (relationships wise), they seem to be a bit clueless/lackadaisical/whatever word you want to use. I'm hearing them and it SOUNDS like they learned their lessons, but for some reason I'm having a hard time believing it. I know that time will well but as of now, that's how I feel about it all.

I also tend to think that for Nintendo to get perfect checkmate, they'd have to do some unscrupulous things. High-pressure things. Things that might get them branded as a "bully" - something that they're wanting to avoid after the history with developers they've had back in the 1980s and 1990s. So I don't think that they truly have it in them.

Which brings me back to my "Iwata's biding his time, waiting for everyone else to die" theory. He perfectly nailed the prediction of development costs turmoil in the past few years - and I seriously wonder if he sees something even bigger coming on the horizon. If he does, then maybe that's why he avoided doing a big, dramatic speech at GDC this year.. maybe Nintendo really is going into bunker mode?

 

[Nilaul]

Last year, in Reggie's post-presentation E3 interview, Reggie explained that Nintendo is "checking all the boxes" for their next gen system. "Online? Check! HD? Check!". It's a nice way of ducking actually detailed questions.

Did he check that "Ducktape" box?

 

[Indyana]

In the first few months of the market, "hardcore" games sold pretty well on the Wii, even though they were generally terrible or glitchy or feature-starved portdowns from other platforms (or a combination thereof!). Two of their first person shooters were considered rather underwhelming yet went on to become million sellers (If I remember correctly, Red Steel and -- eventually -- Call of Duty 3). One of them (CoD) was a multiplatform release, and the Wii version sold much better than the PS3 version.

This did not define the rest of the generation.

Wii was different because of many reasons. Ps3 being the default winner of the generation. Wii going to sell poorly. Different architectures. And all those games pre-announced for the PS3 and then PS360. At least, that's what I want to believe.

If there's anything else on third parties minds, then Nintendo can't win. Ever.

 

[AzaK]

In the first few months of the market, "hardcore" games sold pretty well on the Wii, even though they were generally terrible or glitchy or feature-starved portdowns from other platforms (or a combination thereof!). Two of their first person shooters were considered rather underwhelming yet went on to become million sellers (If I remember correctly, Red Steel and -- eventually -- Call of Duty 3). One of them (CoD) was a multiplatform release, and the Wii version sold much better than the PS3 version.

This did not define the rest of the generation.

I think it will only repeat this gen if when the next Sony and MS consoles come the Wii U can't get downports and I would imagine that this is seriously unlikely. The Wii U has much more modern hardware and Nintendo, I don't think, wants another Wii like situation.

Additionally, the Wii U will be out BEFORE the other consoles, and will have the PS3 and 360 to provide a source of great games to be ported from; either previously released games or ones still to come. This will all help builds it's momentum and place in the next generation. Wii U is in a MUCH better position than the Wii.

 

[Redford]

Did he check that "Ducktape" box?

No, he just yelled at Geoff and made him cry.

 

[Linkhero1]

Last year, in Reggie's post-presentation E3 interview, Reggie explained that Nintendo is "checking all the boxes" for their next gen system. "Online? Check! HD? Check!". It's a nice way of ducking actually detailed questions.

I remember when he said that they will have online "checked" later that week, but it never happened.

 

[GameplayWhore]

Did he check that "Ducktape" box?

Interviewer didn't ask about that because it's assumed.

 

[HylianTom]

I think it will only repeat this gen if when the next Sony and MS consoles come the Wii U can't get downports and I would imagine that this is seriously unlikely. The Wii U has much more modern hardware and Nintendo, I don't think, wants another Wii like situation.

Additionally, the Wii U will be out BEFORE the other consoles, and will have the PS3 and 360 to provide a source of great games to be ported from; either previously released games or ones still to come. This will all help builds it's momentum and place in the next generation. Wii U is in a MUCH better position than the Wii.

You'd almost think that Nintendo would moneyhat some "best of the generation" ports in order to give the system a ready-made library of upper-tier games. It still remains to be seen just how aggressive Nintendo is going to be.

They were aggressive in courting the blue ocean crowd in 2006, and they were open about this goal and how they would approach it. I'm wondering if June is going to come and suddenly a switch within Nintendo is going to be flipped-on: a switch that makes them target hardcore gamers with as much cunning and zeal as they did the blue ocean folks. If so, this could get very entertaining!

 

[MisterHero]

Hey since it's almost a year since last E3 do you think we can expect something about Smash Bros?

I mean a year means they could've made like 300 characters or something right

 

[Linkhero1]

You'd almost think that Nintendo would moneyhat some "best of the generation" ports in order to give the system a ready-made library of upper-tier games. It still remains to be seen just how aggressive Nintendo is going to be.

They were aggressive in courting the blue ocean crowd in 2006, and they were open about this goal and how they would approach it. I'm wondering if June is going to come and suddenly a switch within Nintendo is going to be flipped-on: a switch that makes them target hardcore gamers with as much cunning and zeal as they did the blue ocean folks. If so, this could get very entertaining!

Isn't that what Nintendo stated they wanted to do with the Wii U? I'm pretty sure that switch is already on if they're serious about it, but we'll see at E3. I'm hoping their first party launch lineup is diverse to satisfy everyone.

 

[Nilaul]

Interviewer didn't ask about that because it's assumed.

Oh ye I forgot, DPB (Ducktape based processors) is the new shit Microsoft should ditch ARM for windows 8 and make it run on DBP instead.

Do we know who supplied the ducktape to Nintendo? I need to buy some new stock and I'm willing to invest in that company

 

[LOCK]

BTW, @BitTrip tweeted this:

RT @bittrip What Wii U features would you like to see on the OFF CHANCE that we bring Runner2 to the platform?

Running off the screen onto the controller.

 

[Nilaul]

Running off the screen onto the controller.

Ha that would be amazing... imagine have the runner continuasly loop between the screen and the controller. You would have to place the tablet onto the right of the tv so that he runs into the controller, and then you would have to move the tablet to the left of the screen, so that he runs back into the tv.

 

[HylianTom]

Isn't that what Nintendo stated they wanted to do with the Wii U? I'm pretty sure that switch is already on if they're serious about it, but we'll see at E3. I'm hoping their first party launch lineup is diverse to satisfy everyone.

The more I think about it, the more it might make sense. As we sit here, type type type, Nintendo might be preparing its battle plan for the soul of the core.. but the execution won't be made public until E3 begins.

I'm wondering what "Nintendo Relentlessly Pursuing the Core Audience" would really look like. We might not like it, actually.

Ha that would be amazing... imagine have the runner continuasly loop between the screen and the controller. You would have to place the tablet onto the right of the tv so that he runs into the controller, and then you would have to move the tablet to the left of the screen, so that he runs back into the tv.

And you could "pour" the controller so that he falls into a certain portion of the screen if you really want to..

 

[GameplayWhore]

You'd almost think that Nintendo would moneyhat some "best of the generation" ports in order to give the system a ready-made library of upper-tier games. It still remains to be seen just how aggressive Nintendo is going to be.

Well, beginning of a generation is the ideal time for mid-tier developers to make it big. Nintendo's free middleware assistance could help this along on their platform.

edit: for those late to this particular information, Nintendo is providing Havok's Physics and Animation middleware, for free, for any developers on the Wii U (source), and they're doing the same thing with Autodesk Gameware (source). There's also some third party debugging software they're paying for, as well. This is month-old news.
edit: Green Hills was the debugging package that Nintendo's giving away to devs.

 

[AzaK]

You'd almost think that Nintendo would moneyhat some "best of the generation" ports in order to give the system a ready-made library of upper-tier games. It still remains to be seen just how aggressive Nintendo is going to be.

They were aggressive in courting the blue ocean crowd in 2006, and they were open about this goal and how they would approach it. I'm wondering if June is going to come and suddenly a switch within Nintendo is going to be flipped-on: a switch that makes them target hardcore gamers with as much cunning and zeal as they did the blue ocean folks. If so, this could get very entertaining!

You know, this to me seems like a really really smart thing to do. I wouldn't know what 3rd parties would demand in the way of cash for this, but if they could get them to put extra effort into doing better graphics and awesome Subscreen use it may very well get some of that core market to switch machines. Or at the least get a Wii U to "tide them over" so they can play the best versions of games for a year or so.

 

[Redford]

I'm wondering what "Nintendo Relentlessly Pursuing the Core Audience" would really look like. We might not like it, actually.
.

I wouldn't worry about it, 'cos it's not going to happen.

 

[Linkhero1]

The more I think about it, the more it might make sense. As we sit here, type type type, Nintendo might be preparing its battle plan for the soul of the core.. but the execution won't be made public until E3 begins.

I'm wondering what "Nintendo Relentlessly Pursuing the Core Audience" would really look like. We might not like it, actually.

The way I see it they will put effort into recapturing the core audience and at the same time continue pleasing people who don't games as much with Wii ____ titles. They just need a diverse selection of games to convince current (Non-Nintendo fans) Wii owners to get a Wii U and core gamers who skipped out on Wii to buy the Wii U.

I honestly believe they will have a Wii ____ title bundled with the Wii U that will have the same affect Wii Sports did. If they do go this route I think it's safe to assume everyone who wants the console will be pleased.

 

[GameplayWhore]

I wouldn't worry about it, 'cos it's not going to happen.

Depending on what is meant by "relentlessly", "pursuing", "core", and "audience", it could be said that this is what they did with the 3DS last year.

 

[HylianTom]

Depending on what is meant by "relentlessly", "pursuing", "core", and "audience", it could be said that this is what they did with the 3DS last year.

I certainly would not mind some good old-school Ambassador games for my U. But I'd rather the craziness of people waiting in lines to get the thing, months and years after launch.

 

[Redford]

Congratulations on member Weevils.

 

[GameplayWhore]

Congratulations on member Weevils.

Oh, no, what have we done…

 

[joshwaan]

Nintendo to have Retro FPS shown at E3 check that box

Nintendo will make GAF cry with Joy or Sadness at E3 Check that box lol

Reggie to use say " Wii U graphics smokes current gen with first parties at E3 check that box.

Good times ahead I'm pretty hyped for E3 right now what 53 days is it now guys......











Ha just trolling a little hehe

 

[IceDoesntHelp]

Oh, no, what have we done…

The unthinkable.

 

[AzaK]

Depending on what is meant by "relentlessly", "pursuing", "core", and "audience", it could be said that this is what they did with the 3DS last year.

If there's one thing I know about my relationship with Nintendo and their games is that there's a massive disjoint between what I want and what Nintendo gives me. I'm very cautiously optimistic as I feel they have done pretty well so far with the 3DS......but I want more.

I imagine everyone also has their own interpretation of that statement. Some will love the Japanese style stuff whereas I'm more of that typical western type gamer who loves games like Skyrim, GTA etc. I just hope that after seeing how fucking amazingly MS have done this generation in dominating that space that Nintendo at least cover there arses in that area.

 

[axisofweevils]

Congratulations on member Weevils.

Wow! I didn't even notice! Thanks!

 

[HylianTom]

I wouldn't worry about it, 'cos it's not going to happen.

I won't worry too much at all. My bottom line is Nintendo lasting for a long, long time into the future. We could go a few more decades without them leading the market again, and as long as the great games keep coming, I'll be happy.

I also wouldn't mind them doing a fake/mocking kind of ad campaign for core gamers. But I think that this kind of thing would piss a lot of people off, haha..

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

You'd almost think that Nintendo would moneyhat some "best of the generation" ports in order to give the system a ready-made library of upper-tier games. It still remains to be seen just how aggressive Nintendo is going to be.

They were aggressive in courting the blue ocean crowd in 2006, and they were open about this goal and how they would approach it. I'm wondering if June is going to come and suddenly a switch within Nintendo is going to be flipped-on: a switch that makes them target hardcore gamers with as much cunning and zeal as they did the blue ocean folks. If so, this could get very entertaining!

another thing they have to do is not only secure ports but also marketing deals. Notice CAll of Duty commercials only mention the 360, batman commercials only mentioned the PS3, WiiU gotta get in on some of that deceiving marketing. Gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[AzaK]

another thing they have to do is not only secure ports but also marketing deals. Notice CAll of Duty commercials only mention the 360, batman commercials only mentioned the PS3, WiiU gotta get in on some of that deceiving marketing. Gotta do what you gotta do.

Absolutely. They need people playing with that controller visible on screen showing people using it in kickarse ways.