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[Xun]

Should the Wii U be milled alluminum?

It's funny, but I was thinking about this the other day.

I really wish others followed Rams' 10 principles of good design like Apple, but barely anyone does. Instead they just badly copy what Apple is doing.

Anyway here's the list:

• Is innovative - The possibilities for innovation are not, by any means, exhausted. Technological development is always offering new opportunities for innovative design. But innovative design always develops in tandem with innovative technology, and can never be an end in itself.
• Makes a product useful - A product is bought to be used. It has to satisfy certain criteria, not only functional, but also psychological and aesthetic. Good design emphasizes the usefulness of a product whilst disregarding anything that could possibly detract from it.
• Is aesthetic - The aesthetic quality of a product is integral to its usefulness because products are used every day and have an effect on people and their well-being. Only well-executed objects can be beautiful.
• Makes a product understandable - It clarifies the product’s structure. Better still, it can make the product clearly express its function by making use of the user's intuition. At best, it is self-explanatory.
• Is unobtrusive - Products fulfilling a purpose are like tools. They are neither decorative objects nor works of art. Their design should therefore be both neutral and restrained, to leave room for the user's self-expression.
• Is honest - It does not make a product more innovative, powerful or valuable than it really is. It does not attempt to manipulate the consumer with promises that cannot be kept.
• Is long-lasting - It avoids being fashionable and therefore never appears antiquated. Unlike fashionable design, it lasts many years – even in today's throwaway society.
• Is thorough down to the last detail - Nothing must be arbitrary or left to chance. Care and accuracy in the design process show respect towards the consumer.
• Is environmentally friendly - Design makes an important contribution to the preservation of the environment. It conserves resources and minimizes physical and visual pollution throughout the lifecycle of the product.
• Is as little design as possible - Less, but better – because it concentrates on the essential aspects, and the products are not burdened with non-essentials. Back to purity, back to simplicity.

 

[AceBandage]

It's funny, but I was thinking about this the other day.

I wish others followed Rams' 10 principles of good design like Apple, but barely anyone does.

The list:

• Is innovative - The possibilities for innovation are not, by any means, exhausted. Technological development is always offering new opportunities for innovative design. But innovative design always develops in tandem with innovative technology, and can never be an end in itself.
• Makes a product useful - A product is bought to be used. It has to satisfy certain criteria, not only functional, but also psychological and aesthetic. Good design emphasizes the usefulness of a product whilst disregarding anything that could possibly detract from it.
• Is aesthetic - The aesthetic quality of a product is integral to its usefulness because products are used every day and have an effect on people and their well-being. Only well-executed objects can be beautiful.
• Makes a product understandable - It clarifies the product’s structure. Better still, it can make the product clearly express its function by making use of the user's intuition. At best, it is self-explanatory.
• Is unobtrusive - Products fulfilling a purpose are like tools. They are neither decorative objects nor works of art. Their design should therefore be both neutral and restrained, to leave room for the user's self-expression.
  [*]Is honest - It does not make a product more innovative, powerful or valuable than it really is. It does not attempt to manipulate the consumer with promises that cannot be kept.
• Is long-lasting - It avoids being fashionable and therefore never appears antiquated. Unlike fashionable design, it lasts many years – even in today's throwaway society.
• Is thorough down to the last detail - Nothing must be arbitrary or left to chance. Care and accuracy in the design process show respect towards the consumer.
• Is environmentally friendly - Design makes an important contribution to the preservation of the environment. It conserves resources and minimizes physical and visual pollution throughout the lifecycle of the product.
• Is as little design as possible - Less, but better – because it concentrates on the essential aspects, and the products are not burdened with non-essentials. Back to purity, back to simplicity.

Ummm...
I dunno about this one for Apple...
They horribly overprice their products and claim that they do things that others can't, despite it being complete lies.

 

[Übermatik]

Of course we could go the other direction as well:

Oh GOD that's hideous!

Also, for reference:

God awful chrome Wii (Google browser confirmed)

Matte black Wii

Glossy WiiU and uPad.

 

[DCKing]

The best design decisions they ever made were with the Wii and DS Lite, both of which were, to put it lightly, heavily influenced by Apple.

Wat.

 

[Xun]

Ummm...
I dunno about this one for Apple...
They horribly overprice their products and claim that they do things that others can't, despite it being complete lies.

How naive.

Pricing-wise their consumer products are competitively priced, that and the iPad is still arguably the best tablet out there.

 

[Lonely1]

Wat.

Apple invented the color white and the rectangle, haven't you keep up with Patent-Age?

 

[AceBandage]

How naive.

Pricing-wise their consumer products are competitively priced, that and the iPad is still arguably the best tablet out there.

If you say so...

 

[Deguello]

Err, where are we hearing this? They don't have to pay for ports.

I just inferred from the Kojima Productions tidbit. I'm hoping for more equitable treatment considering Wii U will be riding high off the market leader and has a GPU that will be able to handle anything, even if pared down a bit, that any competitor can do.

But considering this gen most decided to veto the consumer's decision even I'm a little cynical about it.

 

[CrunchyFrog]

It's not the colour, it's the name.

This, I expect a rebrand, similar enough to Wii to maintain continuity, but different enough to show that this isn't some kind of incremental update. And the console box will likely look pretty different too.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

I highly doubt it.

My biggest fear is that they'll make it even smaller. It seems like size is what Nintendo cares about most with the console itself these days.

If it's as powerful as before who wouldn't want it to be smaller? Wii was awesome in that regard, good times comparing it to the size of the 360's brick at launch.

The controller I could see people wanting to be bigger/smaller because of hand sizes but the console itself should always be as small as they can reasonably make it.

 

[AceBandage]

I bet they'll sell handgrip accessories for the controller.

 

[thefro]

Third parties...sigh...
"We think Nintendo is for families and little kids so we're not gonna make any core games for Wii U, which means no core gamers will buy it since there are no core games.
But that's not our fault, it's Nintendo's fault we had nothing to do with it. We don't need to announce core games to get the core gamer interested in the system. Who would do that?
Why would a core gamer buy a system with a lot of core games coming out for it?"

Spoiler

OK, that might be slightly exaggerated.

You forgot the "we can't compete with Nintendo's core games" excuse.

 

[Xun]

If you say so...

Have you not tried Android tablets?

As for pricing the iPad 2 is the exact same price as the Galaxy Tab. So how is that overpriced exactly?

All tablets roughly sell for the same price.

 

[Emitan]

Oh GOD that's hideous!

Also, for reference:

Glossy WiiU and uPad.

Why are + and - so far away?! Nintendo really doesn't want people pausing games anymore. Dark Souls U confirmed?

 

[Deguello]

If it's as powerful as before who wouldn't want it to be smaller? Wii was awesome in that regard, good times comparing it to the size of the 360's brick at launch.

The controller I could see people wanting to be bigger/smaller because of hand sizes but the console itself should always be as small as they can reasonably make it.

This is true. Not only for aesthetic purposes, but also a smaller unit means a smaller box, which means more units shipped per truckload, means more units sold per store. When the demand kicks in it means your userbase grows rapidly thanks to product on shelves actually being there to meet it.

 

[AceBandage]

Have you not tried Android tablets?

As for pricing the iPad 2 is the exact same price as the Galaxy Tab. So how is that overpriced exactly?

All tablets roughly sell for the same price.

I honestly haven't tried any of the tablets.
No real interest.
I was thinking more along the lines of the phones, where you can get a comparable Droid for like $100 less than an iPhone.

(Note: I have neither, since I have an old Palm Centro).

 

[guek]

I really wish others followed Rams' 10 principles of good design like Apple...

• Is honest - It does not make a product more innovative, powerful or valuable than it really is. It does not attempt to manipulate the consumer with promises that cannot be kept.
• Is long-lasting - It avoids being fashionable and therefore never appears antiquated. Unlike fashionable design, it lasts many years – even in today's throwaway society.

Apple advertises and promotes apple-culture and a lifestyle as much as they do any of their products. They're also marketed to last no longer than a year when the next iteration with the obvious improvement that should have been in the last model is available (though that says nothing about their build quality).

 

[waicol]

This is true. Not only for aesthetic purposes, but also a smaller unit means a smaller box, which means more units shipped per truckload, means more units sold per store. When the demand kicks in it means your userbase grows rapidly thanks to product on shelves actually being there to meet it.

Well the 3DS box is pretty big compared to the DS lite one, and the systems are about like the same size. Of course the box has the cradle and the huge user's manual in 200 different languages but still is a bit too much cardboard for what is inside.

 

[Antagon]

Has this been posted before?

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20110190052.pdf

 

[Xun]

I honestly haven't tried any of the tablets.
No real interest.
I was thinking more along the lines of the phones, where you can get a comparable Droid for like $100 less than an iPhone.

(Note: I have neither, since I have an old Palm Centro).

Then don't say "If you say so..." when you've yet to try them. I'm not trying to start an argument, but just sayin'

As for phones it's debatable what's best, but Apple are mostly in line with others in pricing.

It's not all about specs remember, it's about optimisation.

Apple advertises and promotes apple-culture and a lifestyle as much as they do any of their products. They're also marketed to last no longer than a year when the next iteration with the obvious improvement that should have been in the last model is available (though that says nothing about their build quality).

Rams' himself has stated that Apple are one of the only companies to follow his 10 principles.

Also I don't think you quite get what it means to be long-lasting.

For example if I were to carry this around it would not at all look outdated:

Hell, I'd go as far to say not even the 1st iPod would look outdated:

 

[BurntPork]

If it's as powerful as before who wouldn't want it to be smaller? Wii was awesome in that regard, good times comparing it to the size of the 360's brick at launch.

The controller I could see people wanting to be bigger/smaller because of hand sizes but the console itself should always be as small as they can reasonably make it.

My fear is that they cut power to make it smaller.

I'd prefer a console twice the size if it meant 2-3x the power.

 

[AceBandage]

My fear is that they cut power to make it smaller.

I'd prefer a console twice the size if it meant 2-3x the power.

Not how it works at all...

 

[DCKing]

It is a very small form factor for a powerful console. I'm not afraid about the Wii U being underpowered, but I do think Nintendo is restricting themselves a bit too much with how small the Wii U is.

 

[Emitan]

For example if I were to carry this around it would not at all look outdated:

That touchscreen is so small. And what's with all those... pushy things on it? Like a TV remote!

 

[guek]

Rams' himself has stated that Apple are one of the only companies to follow his 10 principles.

Also I don't think you quite get what it means to be long-lasting.

For example if I were to carry this around it would not at all look outdated:

http://www.digiexpress.us/assets/images/ipod_nano_3rd_generation.jpg[IMG]

Hell, I'd go as far to say not even the 1st iPod would look outdated.[/QUOTE]

It seems to me that the list is talking about far more than aesthetics. Apple-culture heavily encourages the idea that the latest model is the one you should want no matter what, regardless of how functional the previous model is. But hey, you know more about this than I do, I just strongly disagree that apple designs their products to last in consumer mindshare rather than intentionally putting out products that will be considered obsolete by their own marketing within the span of a year or so.

And yes, the 1st ipod looks incredibly outdated. I agree with what you're saying about their aesthetic design, but that old brick would look positively ancient today (as it should).

edit:
here's a non-gussied up pic of the original ipod
[IMG]http://www.rmblogs.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/firstgeneration-ipod.jpg

fuckin...80s style, mirite?

 

[BurntPork]

For example if I were to carry this around it would not at all look outdated:

Hell, I'd go as far to say not even the 1st iPod would look outdated:

Are you an Apple fan? I can't tell.

 

[MDX]

Has this been posted before?

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20110190052.pdf

So this tablet controller was meant to be used by the Wii

 

[BurntPork]

Has this been posted before?

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20110190052.pdf

So this tablet controller was meant to be used by the Wii

Thread worthy.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

So this tablet controller was meant to be used by the Wii

Not necessarily - the patent app could just have been using the Wii to illustrate the "console" part of the setup. IIRC, other patent apps have done something similar.

Thread worthy.

Not really.

 

[AceBandage]

So this tablet controller was meant to be used by the Wii

No,
Patents just show concepts.
Not actual results.
The Wii just represents a console.

 

[czk]

Has this been posted before?

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20110190052.pdf

doesn't it kind of confirm that the WiiU will come packed with the Wiimote as well?

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I honestly haven't tried any of the tablets.
No real interest.
I was thinking more along the lines of the phones, where you can get a comparable Droid for like $100 less than an iPhone.

(Note: I have neither, since I have an old Palm Centro).

well your mistake is that they aren't comparable at all. With apple you pay for the better hardware (aka not plastic like most android phones), you pay for the better customer service, and finally you pay for the vastly superior app ecosystem.

They are different experiences for different types of phone/tablet users, but the things mentioned above are the definitive things that set them apart.

 

[AceBandage]

doesn't it kind of confirm that the WiiU will come packed with the Wiimote as well?

No?
It's just showing uses for the controller.

 

[BurntPork]

Not necessarily - the patent app could just have been using the Wii to illustrate the "console" part of the setup. IIRC, other patent apps have done something similar.



Not really.

It is. Though, since I don't feel like making a thread, I'll back off.

 

[waicol]

That was posted last year, don't know if in this thread though.

 

[Antagon]

Just did a search, there was already a thread about it a few months ago.

Only interesting things I see right now is that the console in the patent has both vram and main ram, the Wii U uses 802.111n to communicate and has an extension port just like the wiimote.

 

[DCKing]

Don't make a thread. This is how these patents are made every time.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Yeah I don't think it's thread worthy. Will just lead to an ultimately pointless discussion.

 

[AceBandage]

Not to mention, even if it wasn't old news, the patent really tells us nothing we didn't see at E3.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

It is. Though, since I don't feel like making a thread, I'll back off.

It really isn't. What little of interest there is in the application is likely to be drowned out by people posting "LOL TABLETROLLER WAS TO BE WII PERIPHERAL - IT'S ALL JUST A LITTLE BIT OF HISTORY REPEATING LOLOLOL" all based on the Wii being used to represent the console in the tablet---console setup.

 

[MDX]

doesn't it kind of confirm that the WiiU will come packed with the Wiimote as well?

You know, I was just thinking if the next Zelda will be
designed that two players can participate.

On the one hand they want to keep the SS mechanics wii-motion plus controls,
on the other hand, they have shown us how Zelda could be used with the tablet.
Maybe the second player plays the Navi/Midna helper role with the tablet.

 

[AceBandage]

You know, I was just thinking if the next Zelda will be
designed that two players can participate.

On the one hand they want to keep the SS mechanics wii-motion plus controls,
on the other hand, they have shown us how Zelda could be used with the tablet.
Maybe the second player plays the Navi/Midna helper role with the tablet.

We've done this before...

Disastrous results.

 

[Emitan]

We've done this before...

Disastrous results.

You wanted to use your Rupees on things other than my bombs blowing you up? Oops...

 

[Thraktor]

The patent clearly describes a console with hardware specifically designed to communicate with a controller with a screen. The fact that the console in the picture looks like a Wii is irrelevant, it's not a patent for an add-on to the Wii.

You also shouldn't read too much into the patent, anyway. Patents are written to include every conceivable use case for the technology, so it'll include a lot of features and functionality that won't be in the Wii U.

 

[bgassassin]

Has this been posted before?

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20110190052.pdf

Yes, a long time ago.

 

[ThatObviousUser]

My fear is that they cut power to make it smaller.

I'd prefer a console twice the size if it meant 2-3x the power.

I highly doubt that will be the case.

Thankfully (or not, depending on your views), the Wii U lacks the single biggest component of the PS3 and 360, the hard drive, instead relying on smaller (and easier to shape and fit to spacial needs) flash memory. So I'm not too concerned about size right now. I do think the final product will be smaller than what was shown at E3, similar to how the Wii was also slimmed down from E3 2005 to launch (I remember Iwata clearly saying "the final product will be even smaller, about the size of three DVD cases stacked together.")

 

[MDX]

We've done this before...

Disastrous results.

WTF...


Well all I can say two player Mario Galaxy was a blast.
And I was just thinking, using a tablet can involve the second player a lot more
than what Mario Galaxy offered.

I definitely see the tablet controller more of an inclusive than exclusive device.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

It's gonna be funny if everything looks VERY different from what we've seen.

 

[BurntPork]

It's gonna be funny if everything looks VERY different from what we've seen.

It won't.

 

[Übermatik]

It's gonna be funny if everything looks VERY different from what we've seen.

What... guys, wait... what... right... what IF... they put a screen on the BACK too...

Or, like... or like, if they, right, put a 3D camera, um, in the side?

You know?

Or, um, online by Valve. yeah.