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WikiLeaks releases video of US Apache helicopter (now with added RPGs)

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Laughing Banana

Weeping Pickle
What the fuck?

So basically there are people here who would say: "Well, it's your father's fault" to the unfortunate children?

"Their blood is on his hands?" What? Really?
 
delirium said:
It doesn't matter if we should or should not have gone into Iraq. What matters is that we're there now. Anyone advocating we just leave completely doesn't have the interest of the Iraqi people at all.

This is the exact wrong opinion. The only thing that matters is whether we should or should not have gone to Iraq. It is the but-for cause of everything else. If the American invasion of Iraq was wrong, then so is the death of every single innocent Iraqi there, regardless of the immediate circumstances under which it occurred.

This isn't about placing blame on individual American soldiers. We can expect American soldiers to act as they did under these circumstances, whether warranted or not, because that is how the fragile human mind responds to being exposed to severe trauma and placed under such tremendous stress. This discussion isn't about them. It is about placing blame on the people who caused the deaths: American political leaders (many of whom are still in power to this day). The events depicted in this video--thousands of unrecorded times over, in fact--is what they wrought, and it is absolutely wrong and unacceptable.
 

Keio

For a Finer World
Soldiers in "Wikileaks" Unit Apologize for Violence

We acknowledge our part in the deaths and injuries of your loved ones as we tell Americans what we were trained to do and what we carried out in the name of "god and country". The soldier in the video said that your husband shouldn't have brought your children to battle, but we are acknowledging our responsibility for bringing the battle to your neighborhood, and to your family. We did unto you what we would not want done to us.

http://www.truthout.org/soldiers-wikileaks-company-apologize-violence58714
 
Keio said:

I applaud them for doing that. This is the son of one of the journalists killed.

iraq_000987.jpg


I hope one day those who were involved in this apology letter can go to this child. One of them says he has children at home. In many ways, now he has another.
 
Keio said:
Soldiers in "Wikileaks" Unit Apologize for Violence

We acknowledge our part in the deaths and injuries of your loved ones as we tell Americans what we were trained to do and what we carried out in the name of "god and country". The soldier in the video said that your husband shouldn't have brought your children to battle, but we are acknowledging our responsibility for bringing the battle to your neighborhood, and to your family. We did unto you what we would not want done to us.

http://www.truthout.org/soldiers-wikileaks-company-apologize-violence58714

That's an amazing quote and captures so succinctly and beautifully the essence of what I was using 1000s of words to try to express. In addition to this bit:

Our government may ignore you, concerned more with its public image. It has also ignored many veterans who have returned physically injured or mentally troubled by what they saw and did in your country. But the time is long overdue that we say that the values of our nation's leaders no longer represent us. ... We are doing what we can to speak out against the wars and military policies responsible for what happened to you and your loved ones.
 

numble

Member
There is no bringing back all that was lost. What we seek is to learn from our mistakes and do everything we can to tell others of our experiences and how the people of the United States need to realize what we have done and are doing to you and the people of your country. We humbly ask you what we can do to begin to repair the damage we caused.
...
We acknowledge our part in the deaths and injuries of your loved ones as we tell Americans what we were trained to do and what we carried out in the name of "god and country". The soldier in the video said that your husband shouldn't have brought your children to battle, but we are acknowledging our responsibility for bringing the battle to your neighborhood, and to your family. We did unto you what we would not want done to us.

More and more Americans are taking responsibility for what was done in our name. Though we have acted with cold hearts far too many times, we have not forgotten our actions towards you. Our heavy hearts still hold hope that we can restore inside our country the acknowledgment of your humanity, that we were taught to deny.
...
With such pain, friendship might be too much to ask. Please accept our apology, our sorrow, our care, and our dedication to change from the inside out. We are doing what we can to speak out against the wars and military policies responsible for what happened to you and your loved ones. Our hearts are open to hearing how we can take any steps to support you through the pain that we have caused.

Very nice letter.

To be fair though, it is written by 2 soldiers, only one who was involved in the engagement, who was on the ground and may not have even been in the video. So some people may mischaracterize this as "soldiers in the wikileaks video" versus "soldiers in the unit from the wikileaks video."
 
numble said:
Very nice letter.

To be fair though, it is written by 2 soldiers, only one who was involved in the engagement, who was on the ground and may not have even been in the video. So some people may mischaracterize this as "soldiers in the wikileaks video" versus "soldiers in the unit from the wikileaks video."

The one who was there was in the video; he pulled the children from the van: "Ethan McCord pulled your daughter and son from the van, and when doing so, saw the faces of his own children back home." Agreed that it has the potential to be misrepresented, but it's powerful coming even just from members of the unit.
 

Ether_Snake

安安安安安安安安安安安安安安安
numble said:
Very nice letter.

To be fair though, it is written by 2 soldiers, only one who was involved in the engagement, who was on the ground and may not have even been in the video. So some people may mischaracterize this as "soldiers in the wikileaks video" versus "soldiers in the unit from the wikileaks video."

One of the two was there.

We are both soldiers who occupied your neighborhood for 14 months. Ethan McCord pulled your daughter and son from the van, and when doing so, saw the faces of his own children back home. Josh Stieber was in the same company but was not there that day, though he contributed to the your pain, and the pain of your community on many other occasions.
 

dave is ok

aztek is ok
Our government may ignore you, concerned more with its public image. It has also ignored many veterans who have returned physically injured or mentally troubled by what they saw and did in your country. But the time is long overdue that we say that the values of our nation's leaders no longer represent us. Our secretary of defense may say the U.S. won't lose its reputation over this, but we stand and say that our reputation's importance pales in comparison to our common humanity.
This makes me feel like they want this event pinned on Obama somehow.
 

Sibylus

Banned
Unexpected, but welcome :)

dave is ok said:
This makes me feel like they want this event pinned on Obama somehow.
Eh, that seemed more like general disapproval directed at the US government and its foreign policy to me. Those problems were present before Bush took office and in all likelihood still remain.
 

mAcOdIn

Member
dave is ok said:
This makes me feel like they want this event pinned on Obama somehow.
What? Way to read into things, not that Obama would be blameless as he is keeping them there for now, after all.
 
KHarvey16 said:
There's almost nothing there at all.

Eh, it wasn't a huge thing, it's just that the whole thing is treated as a joke for a lot of people in the company. I know some people in there that joined after all this happened and they said that people thought it was kind of funny that this incident was getting so much coverage when that stuff happens all the time.
 

NotWii

Banned
Wikileaks twitter says:

# We now have 50,078 followers. That's good, because in the coming weeks, we will face our greatest challenge. 5:42 PM May 14th via bit.ly

# WikiLeaks now at 49,233 followers. Help us break 50k, invite your friends. 6:39 PM May 13th via bit.ly
http://twitter.com/wikileaks

I think they anticipated attempts to try and get their stuff removed, so they need strength in numbers
 

mAcOdIn

Member
Wii said:
Wikileaks twitter says:


http://twitter.com/wikileaks

I think they anticipated attempts to try and get their stuff removed, so they need strength in numbers
Lol, these guys, for a "news" organization they're starting to piss me off. As if the amount of followers they have on Twitter or Youtube means jack shit in their ability to keep a video posted, it's just a way to stroke the egos of people who need to feel they're "fighting the good fight" and I wouldn't be surprised if some of this drama wasn't in fact created by them in the first place to create some enemy for their online "followers" to combat.

Pshh, idealists, they're always crazy.

I guess it's good we have them as a counter balance of sorts to the more militant idealists, but damn where are all the sane people at?
 

Jintor

Member
They're not a news organisation, they're a leaks organisation. Their founder/spokesman has admitted that they spin their short versions of their videos.
 

Corky

Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
I was going to write an angry post about killiing innocent people, but the dude apologized. I mean come on, if one reads a touching apology written by somebody else ( obv ), who's to point the finger and judge these individuals?

The things people get away with in the name of war, and then apologists accepting all of it just because it " was in the name of war "
 

numble

Member
Corky said:
I was going to write an angry post about killiing innocent people, but the dude apologized. I mean come on, if one reads a touching apology written by somebody else ( obv ), who's to point the finger and judge these individuals?

The things people get away with in the name of war, and then apologists accepting all of it just because it " was in the name of war "
Who apologized?
 
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