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Windows 8 Consumer Preview

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Wiktor

Member
I
So by the time windows 9 comes out there will be very very few reasons to keep the desktop. Why would ms want to enable people to create more reasons to stay on the desktop instead of creating more reasons to move away from the desktop ?
Desktop UI is superior to metro on desktop and laptop. Remove that and you're giving people reasons to not upgrade to W9.
Unless Metro gets completely changed, not just in terms of interface, but also how open it is, it stands no chance of replacing desktop. People won't allow their PCs to be turned into primitive iPad-like closed systems. When you loose all the advantages PCs have over iPad what's the point of picking PC over iPad?
 

markot

Banned
Phasing out desktop is just a silly statement I mean, desktop aint goin nowhere.

The idea that microsoft is leaving it behind is stupid. They are just trying to push hard into tablet.
 

eastmen

Banned
Desktop UI is superior to metro on desktop and laptop. Remove that and you're giving people reasons to not upgrade to W9.
Unless Metro gets completely changed, not just in terms of interface, but also how open it is, it stands no chance of replacing desktop. People won't allow their PCs to be turned into primitive iPad-like closed systems. When you loose all the advantages PCs have over iPad what's the point of picking PC over iPad?

That may be the case today , but in 3 years time ? Touch screens are getting cheaper and cheaper , kinet is getting more accurate.


With the launch of windows 9 desktop pcs , laptops and all devices will come with touch screens and motion + voice tracking. 3 years is alot of time and while keyboard and mouse may still be the most used input method on desktops and keyboards touch might become the main way of controling the ui in those devices.


Besides metro works fine with a keyboard and mouse , i haven't had a problem so far.
 

kagete

Member
-Dell has the rep and existing clout with large enterprises.
-Dell will certify their tablet lines for corporate and military applications
-It will have Windows on it, so it will have domain access, AD, etc. Basically a familiar upgrade path for companies already using Windows XP and barely transitioning to Windows 7.

That crappy tablet will sell buckets to companies even though we've been trying to get them to just buy the OG iPads for the past couple of years. I'm guessing MSRP of $550 due to the $99 OEM license with most being sold "on sale" for $499 and big companies getting them at $479 bulk pricing.
 
Computex 2012: Acer to showcase Windows 8 tablet PCs

Acer will exhibit Windows 8-based tablet PCs at Computex Taipei 2012 to take place during June 5-9, according to industry sources.

Positioning tablet PCs at US$299-499 in price, Acer launched the 10.1-inch Iconia A510 in May 2012 and will launch the 10.1-inch Iconia A700 in July, the sources indicated. Acer aims to ship two million tablet PCs in 2012 and shipped 400,000-450,000 units in January-April, the sources noted..

Windows 8 tablet PCs are expected to struggle to compete with Android tablet PCs and iPad because the number of available applications is much smaller and Windows 8 licensing fees will significantly increase production costs, the sources said.
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20120524PD211.html

June is going to be amazing for tech enthusiasts (and gamers).

E3: June 5–7
Computex: June 5–9
WWDC: June 15–19
WP Developer Conference: June 20
Google I/O: June 29
 

Mr_Zombie

Member
In windows 9 when Office and the rest of MS's programs are off the desktop it will just be metro. Think about it developers have had the preview for a solid 9 months I'm sure adobe and the other big companys have had acess even longer. So 4 years or so is more than enough time for all these companys to come out with full featured metro verisons of their software.

Can you really imagine Photoshop, Zbrush, Visual Studio and all the professional programs with lots of windows and full of menu trees translated to Metro UI? Because I don't. Metro UI is fine for simpler programs, with a minimalistic interface; not for powerhouse programs.

Desktop UI won't go away just because Microsoft wishes so. Just like AdrianWerner said, there are still people working on WinXP - a 11 years old OS. And the change to non-desktop OS would be much bigger than the changes in Vista and Win7.
 

jagowar

Member
Can you really imagine Photoshop, Zbrush, Visual Studio and all the professional programs with lots of windows and full of menu trees translated to Metro UI? Because I don't. Metro UI is fine for simpler programs, with a minimalistic interface; not for powerhouse programs.

Desktop UI won't go away just because Microsoft wishes so. Just like AdrianWerner said, there are still people working on WinXP - a 11 years old OS. And the change to non-desktop OS would be much bigger than the changes in Vista and Win7.

I do expect every program to get the metro treatment... it will probably take years for some of those programs to figure out how to create complex metro interfaces but it will happen. also remember those programs didn't exist when windows 3.1 or 95 first came out but they were able to figure out how to do them..... same will happen with metro.

I think office will be one of the first that shows people the light when it gets a metro version (probably for windows 9).
 

MrBig

Member
I do expect every program to get the metro treatment... it will probably take years for some of those programs to figure out how to create complex metro interfaces but it will happen. also remember those programs didn't exist when windows 3.1 or 95 first came out but they were able to figure out how to do them..... same will happen with metro.

I think office will be one of the first that shows people the light when it gets a metro version (probably for windows 9).

No, the Windows team will have to clean up their metro act. W8 should have taken another couple of years to come out to solve problems like multitasking and complex productivity UIs. You wont see billion dollar companies bending to MS's whim just to fit their programs into a certain visual style and environment at the cost of useability.
 
I have a quick question for you guys. I downloaded the Consumer Preview ISO and made a disk image of it. I am building a new computer and want to only use Win8 as my OS for a bit. Can I just install off the disk to a clean HD like that?

someone told me I needed windows 7 first.
 

Sage00

Once And Future Member
I have a quick question for you guys. I downloaded the Consumer Preview ISO and made a disk image of it. I am building a new computer and want to only use Win8 as my OS for a bit. Can I just install off the disk to a clean HD like that?

someone told me I needed windows 7 first.
You can do that, yes. No Windows 7 required.
 

Wiktor

Member
That may be the case today , but in 3 years time ? Touch screens are getting cheaper and cheaper , kinet is getting more accurate.


With the launch of windows 9 desktop pcs , laptops and all devices will come with touch screens and motion + voice tracking. 3 years is alot of time and while keyboard and mouse may still be the most used input method on desktops and keyboards touch might become the main way of controling the ui in those devices.


Besides metro works fine with a keyboard and mouse , i haven't had a problem so far.

touch screen, kinect, voice controls...all won't be as fast and efficent as KB +mouse. So business will continue to primarly rely on KB+Mouse, add gamers to that and majority of pc users will still use KB+mouse daily, only the most casual minority won't. Kinect , voice control and touch will just because stuff that enchances PC controls, not replace them
And metro works decently on mouse+KB, but it doesn't work as well as desktop UI does and it's also a far more limited and closed than desktop UI. There are simply no advantages of using metro on desktop over traditional UI, at least for users who already learned the old styled WIndows UI.
 

Complex Shadow

Cudi Lame™
I have a quick question for you guys. I downloaded the Consumer Preview ISO and made a disk image of it. I am building a new computer and want to only use Win8 as my OS for a bit. Can I just install off the disk to a clean HD like that?

someone told me I needed windows 7 first.

i wouldn't but i am pretty sure you can.
 

Wiktor

Member
I do expect every program to get the metro treatment...

That won't happen unless Microsoft drastically changes how Metro works. FOr example...it would be pretty much impossible to create metro version of Steam.
Also...I'm pretty sure that when Office gets metroized it will just be metro-friendly visual style, a reskinning mostly, with maybe additional control options for touch. And I expect that all software will follow it this way.
 

Complex Shadow

Cudi Lame™
No, the Windows team will have to clean up their metro act. W8 should have taken another couple of years to come out to solve problems like multitasking and complex productivity UIs. You wont see billion dollar companies bending to MS's whim just to fit their programs into a certain visual style and environment at the cost of useability.

honestly i completely agree with the fact that windows 8 shouldve taken longer. metro seems so half baked atm, but the hybrids are what have me hyped. At the moment, thats all i care about, and thats all that has had me going for windows 8 so far.
 

Complex Shadow

Cudi Lame™
I know, I know.. I ran out of money on my last build and really don't have a choice. we will see how it goes. if things really bomb out I can always just reformat and install 7 when I get some extra cash.

oh its not that. its just that you might to reformat anyways when windows 8 comes out because the beta won't work anymore. are you a student?
 
Because Ballmer is mad like that.

"Steve Ballmer has an 80-inch Windows 8 tablet in his office. He's got rid of his phone, he's got rid of his note paper. It's touch-enabled and it's hung on his wall."

This description of the Microsoft CEO's workspace, given to Wired.co.uk in Redmond this morning, came from Microsoft VP Frank Shaw. But while it conjures an amusing image of Ballmer using his mighty palms to bat at a Windows Phone-like Metro interface, it's a scenario Shaw said is eventually going to be available to the public.

"It's his whiteboard, his email machine," Shaw said, "and it's a device we're going to sell."

This isn't the 80-inch Microsoft-powered Sharp Aquos Board touchscreen unveiled earlier this year at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, however. Shaw explained that the model Ballmer is using and that Microsoft will promote is made by "a different company, but it's running Windows 8".

Microsoft has sizable plans for Windows 8, quite literally -- the forthcoming operating system is designed to run on small tablets as well as PCs and laptops, and can be used with low-power ARM-based CPUs similar to those used in smartphones, as well as conventional processors made by Intel and AMD for desktop computers. The 80-inch wall-hung tablet is just another screen size supported by the OS.

Shaw stated that, perhaps like Microsoft's Surface, it isn't intended to be bought by consumers -- at least not at launch. "It's not a consumer thing now, but we know historically that that's how all things start," he said. "The idea that there should be a screen that's not a computer, we'll laugh at that in two years.

"Every screen should be touch, every screen should be a computer and should be able to see out as well as see in. That is the way the world is heading [and] those screens are going to be big, small, wall-sized and desk-sized."
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2012-05/24/ballmer-80-inch
 

jagowar

Member
That won't happen unless Microsoft drastically changes how Metro works. FOr example...it would be pretty much impossible to create metro version of Steam.
Also...I'm pretty sure that when Office gets metroized it will just be metro-friendly visual style, a reskinning mostly, with maybe additional control options for touch. And I expect that all software will follow it this way.

What would be hard about creating a metro steam? I think a metro version of steam would be very easy to do with metro now.
 

Complex Shadow

Cudi Lame™
I am not a student no. I have a few friends that are currently though.

students can purchase it pretty cheap right?
yea when windows 7 came out, a friend of mine bought it for 15$ and i got it for free. And if that doesn't work see if your friends know anyone that is doing anything in computer science since they are likely to be able to get it for free and/or for cheap. i say wait till windows 8 and get it for cheap. you have plenty of time, i remember when i had the windows 7 RC installed i waited for a long as time before switching to full windows 7 (i was just lazy)
 
yea when windows 7 came out, a friend of mine bought it for 15$ and i got it for free. And if that doesn't work see if your friends know anyone that is doing anything in computer science since they are likely to be able to get it for free and/or for cheap. i say wait till windows 8 and get it for cheap. you have plenty of time, i remember when i had the windows 7 RC installed i waited for a long as time before switching to full windows 7 (i was just lazy)

thanks for the info, appreciate it.
 
What would be hard about creating a metro steam? I think a metro version of steam would be very easy to do with metro now.

It would have to be offered on the Windows Store and I don't know if you can offer DD stores there. Also, Metro apps can't download in the background, iirc.
 

Complex Shadow

Cudi Lame™
What would be hard about creating a metro steam? I think a metro version of steam would be very easy to do with metro now.
it would also look amazing imo
Library-Game-v1a.jpg

Store-Mockup-v0a.jpg

Store-Product-mockup-v1a.jpg
source
 

Wiktor

Member
What would be hard about creating a metro steam? I think a metro version of steam would be very easy to do with metro now.

Metro restrictions put by MS make it impossible. The software can't download in the background, it would be impossible to buy and download games through it, as every metro app has to go through Marketplace. ALso...remove all desktop functionality and..well..look at your steam library, all of those games are desktop apps.
 

MrBig

Member
It would have to be offered on the Windows Store and I don't know if you can offer DD stores there. Also, Metro apps can't download in the background, iirc.

No, a metro steam is fully compatible with the metro store model, and MS takes no share of sales. iirc there are limitations that might not make it practical if they are limited to the standard metro sandbox though, so it would be like the android/ios app. You have the desktop version and the metro version installed (they could package the metro version in with the desktop version to make it compatible with metro links and not have users have to install it separately), and the metro would work as a front end telling thee desktop program what to do.
 

Complex Shadow

Cudi Lame™
Metro restrictions put by MS make it impossible. The software can't download in the background, it would be impossible to buy and download games through it, as every metro app has to go through Marketplace. ALso...remove all desktop functionality and..well..look at your steam library, all of those games are desktop apps.

which is why i expect windows tablets to fail. not because of the fact that it has no desktop feature, but because of all the restrictions on the apps store or w/e they're calling it.
 

Cheebo

Banned
which is why i expect windows tablets to fail. not because of the fact that it has no desktop feature, but because of all the restrictions on the apps store or w/e they're calling it.
App Store restrictions didn't stop iPad. No reason why the model will suddenly fail for MS. Users are conditioned to buying software via app stores.
 
It would have to be offered on the Windows Store and I don't know if you can offer DD stores there. Also, Metro apps can't download in the background, iirc.
You can, Ms doesn't force developers to use their paying schema, they can use their own (and doesn't have to pay anything if they use their own).

Also, i think metro apps are allowed to download in the background, but the user has to allow it for bigger downloads.

What i'm not sure that would work is installing apps (specially desktop ones) by itself...
 

Wiktor

Member
which is why i expect windows tablets to fail. not because of the fact that it has no desktop feature, but because of all the restrictions on the apps store or w/e they're calling it.
I think people will go for hybrids to be honest..convertibles, Transformer Prime-like multipart devices and home docks where tablets power the desktop/home theatre experience. I doubt many people will go for slate only W8.
I imagine the biggest goal of W8 isn't to make people switch to tablets, but to ensure existing pc users won't be switching to iPads. Bassicaly, it's about making devices like iPad look like the cheap cameras of PMP players. People love convergence afterall, so having one device that can act as tablet, laptop and desktop might seem like quite a glorious proposal over device that does only one thing - being a tablet, even if it's tablet experience is slightly better.
 

Complex Shadow

Cudi Lame™
App Store restrictions didn't stop iPad. No reason why the model will suddenly fail for MS. Users are conditioned to buying software via app stores.

thats true. but ipad has a ton if apps thanks to the iphone apps being ported over. windows 8 not so much. i think the app catalog alone makes the ipad a better choice than a windows 8 tablet. not to say windows 8 tablets won't get more apps, but its gonna take time and people are impatient
I think people will go for hybrids to be honest..convertibles, Transformer Prime-like multipart devices and home docks where tablets power the desktop/home theatre experience. I doubt many people will go for slate only W8.
I imagine the biggest goal of W8 isn't to make people switch to tablets, but to ensure existing pc users won't be switching to iPads. Bassicaly, it's about making devices like iPad look like the cheap cameras of PMP players. People love convergence afterall, so having one device that can act as tablet, laptop and desktop might seem like quite a glorious proposal over device that does only one thing - being a tablet, even if it's tablet experience is slightly better.
yea i am not worried about hybrids all that much. but i doubt its gonna stop pc users from switching to ipads. just because if people are gonna buy a tablet theyl prob buy and ipad especially if MS office comes to the ipad.
 

Wiktor

Member
App Store restrictions didn't stop iPad. No reason why the model will suddenly fail for MS. Users are conditioned to buying software via app stores.

PC users aren't conditioned to buy stuff from just one appstore though. If MS would try make markerplace the only source of software it would fail. But they won't even try it fortunatelly.
 

Wiktor

Member
thats true. but ipad has a ton if apps thanks to the iphone apps being ported over. windows 8 not so much. i think the app catalog alone makes the ipad a better choice than a windows 8 tablet. not to say windows 8 tablets won't get more apps, but its gonna take time and people are impatient

They are, but they also value what they already paid for. For a PC user buying a W8 tablet makes more sense than iPad, because switching to iPAd would mean loosing all your software. Even if that software isn't all that suited for touch controls. W8 is in diffferent situation than ANdroid, which had to start from scratch. Sure, you will be waiting for tablet-friendly software, but at least it will come (while it never really did on Android) and it's users will also get access to library of desktop software, which slaughters every other ecosystem when it comes to sheer number of programs.
 

Cheebo

Banned
They are, but they also value what they already paid for. For a PC user buying a W8 tablet makes more sense than iPad, because switching to iPAd would mean loosing all your software. Even if that software isn't all that suited for touch controls. W8 is in diffferent situation than ANdroid, which had to start from scratch. Sure, you will be waiting for tablet-friendly software, but at least it will come (while it never really did on Android) and it's users will also get access to library of desktop software, which slaughters every other ecosystem when it comes to sheer number of programs.

But none of the desktop software is compatible on the Windows RT tablets.
 

Complex Shadow

Cudi Lame™
They are, but they also value what they already paid for. For a PC user buying a W8 tablet makes more sense than iPad, because switching to iPAd would mean loosing all your software. Even if that software isn't all that suited for touch controls. W8 is in diffferent situation than ANdroid, which had to start from scratch. Sure, you will be waiting for tablet-friendly software, but at least it will come (while it never really did on Android) and it's users will also get access to library of desktop software, which slaughters every other ecosystem when it comes to sheer number of programs.

not saying it will not out sell droid. but it won't out sell the ipad. not until windows 9 at least. or losing everything in both cases. no one has windows 8 yet so no one has bought any apps, therefore no one is losing anything. and i really doubt many will upgrade to windows 8 unless they have to.
 

eastmen

Banned
touch screen, kinect, voice controls...all won't be as fast and efficent as KB +mouse. So business will continue to primarly rely on KB+Mouse, add gamers to that and majority of pc users will still use KB+mouse daily, only the most casual minority won't. Kinect , voice control and touch will just because stuff that enchances PC controls, not replace them
And metro works decently on mouse+KB, but it doesn't work as well as desktop UI does and it's also a far more limited and closed than desktop UI. There are simply no advantages of using metro on desktop over traditional UI, at least for users who already learned the old styled WIndows UI.

It will be much faster actually in some cases.


Computer run photoshop . Photoshop increase brush size 28% , Photoshop change color to blue. Or Photoshop blue etc . For many it can be alot faster than going through menus esp if you know what you want.
 
now all we need is hovercrafts, and i am good.

Yeah, I've heard about that before.

Microsoft is testing prototypes of Kinect-enabled notebooks using motion-sensing as an interface for Windows 8, it’s been revealed, ahead of what are believed to be plans to license the technology to laptop vendors. Specially modified ASUS netbooks are being used to demonstrate the system, which builds on Microsoft’s freshly-announced Kinect for Windows hardware, The Daily reports; the ultraportables replace the single webcam above the screen with a row of sensors that can track movement.
 

jagowar

Member
not saying it will not out sell droid. but it won't out sell the ipad. not until windows 9 at least. or losing everything in both cases. no one has windows 8 yet so no one has bought any apps, therefore no one is losing anything. and i really doubt many will upgrade to windows 8 unless they have to.

It very easily can outsell the ipad.... with as much name share as the ipad has it still is only just now getting close to crossing the 100 million mark. windows vista was largely considered a failure and sold 250 million copies. I would bet 1 year from the win8 launch it will have "caught" the ipad in total sales but windows 8 will be spread out on the desktop and tablet hardware.
 

giga

Member
I'm sure adobe and the other big companys have had acess even longer. So 4 years or so is more than enough time for all these companys to come out with full featured metro verisons of their software.

So by the time windows 9 comes out there will be very very few reasons to keep the desktop. Why would ms want to enable people to create more reasons to stay on the desktop instead of creating more reasons to move away from the desktop ?
lol.

You'll get your Photoshop Touch and like it.
 

Complex Shadow

Cudi Lame™
It very easily can outsell the ipad.... with as much name share as the ipad has it still is only just now getting close to crossing the 100 million mark. windows vista was largely considered a failure and sold 250 million copies. I would bet 1 year from the win8 launch it will have "caught" the ipad in total sales but windows 8 will be spread out on the desktop and tablet hardware.

wait are you saying windows 8 tablet will beat the ipad in total sales in a year?

Yeah, I've heard about that before.

meh. i think itl be like mouse pads. vendors can pick and choose who they want. only difference is kinect will prob be default.
 

Wiktor

Member
It will be much faster actually in some cases.


Computer run photoshop . Photoshop increase brush size 28% , Photoshop change color to blue. Or Photoshop blue etc . For many it can be alot faster than going through menus esp if you know what you want.

nope, if you know what you're doing mouse and KB will still be faster. Blue? What blue? There hundreds of shades of blue. And the more complex things would take multiple sentences. Voice command just can't deliver the speed and accuracy of mouse. Now, I do think voice will be used to speed up certain things, such as executing the simpliest commands, but it will just be accessory, majority of work in photoshop will still be done by mouse and KB.
 

Wiktor

Member
not saying it will not out sell droid. but it won't out sell the ipad. .
Depends. Slatesonly? I indeed don't see them outselling iPads. All Windows 8 PCs? iPad doesn't stand a chance sales-wise.
Who will dominate touch? It depends how well the touch adoption will go with laptops. iPad won't be going anywhere near laptop numbers anytime soon. The question is- will laptops embrace touch?
 

eastmen

Banned
nope, if you know what you're doing mouse and KB will still be faster. Blue? What blue? There hundreds of shades of blue. And the more complex things would take multiple sentences. Voice command just can't deliver the speed and accuracy of mouse. Now, I do think voice will be used to speed up certain things, such as executing the simpliest commands, but it will just be accessory, majority of work in photoshop will still be done by mouse and KB.

I'm sure your once your adapted to voice it will work just as fast. Infact with a good pen input voice + pen would work much better than keyboard and mouse
 

Wiktor

Member
I'm sure your once your adapted to voice it will work just as fast. Infact with a good pen input voice + pen would work much better than keyboard and mouse

On desktop? Sure, if all you're doing is fixing your holiday photo. But working? Yeah...good luck spending 8 hours with your hand in the air and constantly talking.
 

StudioTan

Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
On desktop? Sure, if all you're doing is fixing your holiday photo. But working? Yeah...good luck spending 8 hours with your hand in the air and constantly talking.

Hand in the air all day I agree with. Talking? Not so much. Millions of people have jobs that require talking the entire day. Maybe not jobs that require Photoshop though. I wouldn't want to be working in the art dept at a game studio with all the artists talking to their computers. At home though? Sure. I actually looked into doing this with PS years ago but it ended up being a pain to get the software working and I don't want to wear a headset. Kinect for PC with native support would be interesting though.
 
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