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[Vanillalite]

The only way to answer every single question is by releasing the beta, which is already announced to be February 29th. For the ARM questions, those devices simply aren't ready yet. But when they are, they'll go to the right people who report on this stuff, people like Paul and Mary Jo, and they can explore to their hearts' content and answer every single question they want answered..

I don't disagree with most of your stuff. They don't have to know, and it is sort of begging even from me in this thread. I'll fully admit that.

That being said at least on the ARM front, if that stuff isn't ready by MWC then MS has problems. Hate on us all for saying the obvious, but MS can't afford to wait till say April or May for all of the ARM stuff considering we all know Apple is about to own the mind share of people again her in early March with iPad 3 stuff. MS can't afford to let Apple just roll through another high profile product release cycle.

I think the same hold trues for Windows Phone is Apple comes again in say June with the iPhone 5 while MS is focusing on Tango hardware for the world. If we get an iPhone 5 this summer and MS is banking on the fall for Windows Phone 8 "Apollo" stuff I just don't see how this all plays out well for MS.

Microsoft needs to announce before the Apple event especially since they're the underdog in tablets.

Once the iPad 3 is announced there's going to be non-stop tech coverage on it for like two months straight and no other stories will be able to attract attention. At least if MS gets the jump on Apple, all the iPad 3 writeups will also be mentioning Microsoft's tablet strategy and comparing it with Windows 8 etc.

I like this theory. MS needs to say something big at MWC to get in the mindshare before so at least they are out there in the tech coverage.

 

[VanMardigan]

Microsoft needs to announce before the Apple event especially since they're the underdog in tablets.

Once the iPad 3 is announced there's going to be non-stop tech coverage on it for like two months straight and no other stories will be able to attract attention. At least if MS gets the jump on Apple, all the iPad 3 writeups will also be mentioning Microsoft's tablet strategy and comparing it with Windows 8 etc.

MS probably thinks that long blog post is enough. It isn't, no one other than the MS bloggers are talking about WOA right now. We need devices, hands on, and a killer prototype.

 

[Complex Shadow]

Microsoft needs to announce before the Apple event especially since they're the underdog in tablets.

Once the iPad 3 is announced there's going to be non-stop tech coverage on it for like two months straight and no other stories will be able to attract attention. At least if MS gets the jump on Apple, all the iPad 3 writeups will also be mentioning Microsoft's tablet strategy and comparing it with Windows 8 etc.

what MS needs to do and should do are two different things. apple will front page cover no matter what. the public doesn't give a shit when you compare apples to windows. MS needs to show off, they need to overshadow apple some how.

 

[dream]

I don't think there's a good time for Microsoft to announce WOA. Doing it before the iPad event will give them a few days of press before everyone forgets about it because of the ramped up iPad rumors. Doing it after the event will give them a few days of press before everyone forgets about it because of all the iPad launch hysteria.

I mean, I can sort of understand the argument about having people mention Microsoft's tablet strategy. I just don't think anyone cares because it's really just vapor.

 

[Vanillalite]

I don't think there's a good time for Microsoft to announce WOA. Doing it before the iPad event will give them a few days of press before everyone forgets about it because of the ramped up iPad rumors. Doing it after the event will give them a few days of press before everyone forgets about it because of all the iPad launch hysteria.

I mean, I can sort of understand the argument about having people mention Microsoft's tablet strategy. I just don't think anyone cares because it's really just vapor.

Going by this idea if nobody really cares then MS shouldn't even bother at all.

 

[dream]

I think they need a real product that is shipping somewhat soon if they're going to announce anything.

 

[hwalker84]

MS probably thinks that long blog post is enough. It isn't, no one other than the MS bloggers are talking about WOA right now. We need devices, hands on, and a killer prototype.

Pretty much. I know I'm not even considering a Win8 Tablet over my iPad 3. But if they through something incredibly gnarly may way before the iPad 3 gets announced i would seriously think about it.

 

[dLMN8R]

That being said at least on the ARM front, if that stuff isn't ready by MWC then MS has problems. Hate on us all for saying the obvious, but MS can't afford to wait till say April or May for all of the ARM stuff considering we all know Apple is about to own the mind share of people again her in early March with iPad 3 stuff. MS can't afford to let Apple just roll through another high profile product release cycle.

I don't know how it would be possible to avoid another cycle of iPad. Only the beta is ready at this point, the final release won't be for a long time from now. Getting an ARM prototype into people's hands won't matter if no one can buy it. The iPad 3 will sell huge no matter what happens between now and the release of Windows 8.

It wouldn't do any good to announce anything before the iPad 3 is announced, and it won't do any good to show anything right after the iPad 3 is announced. The only sensible thing to do is to show things when they're closer to being on sale.

MS probably thinks that long blog post is enough. It isn't, no one other than the MS bloggers are talking about WOA right now. We need devices, hands on, and a killer prototype.

Pretty much. I know I'm not even considering a Win8 Tablet over my iPad 3. But if they through something incredibly gnarly may way before the iPad 3 gets announced i would seriously think about it.

You guys are pretty misguided on guessing what Microsoft thinks here. Why would anyone consider a Windows 8 tablet over an iPad 3 at this point? One will be on the market probably 6 months before the other.


The purpose of the ARM blog post was to answer a lot of questions that people who already blog about Windows 8 wanted to know. I don't know how you could think that its purpose was a marketing tool to get people excited about Windows 8.

 

[Vanillalite]

I don't know how it would be possible to avoid another cycle of iPad. Only the beta is ready at this point, the final release won't be for a long time from now. Getting an ARM prototype into people's hands won't matter if no one can buy it. The iPad 3 will sell huge no matter what happens between now and the release of Windows 8.

It wouldn't do any good to announce anything before the iPad 3 is announced, and it won't do any good to show anything right after the iPad 3 is announced. The only sensible thing to do is to show things when they're closer to being on sale.

I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that with the current cycle that Windows 8 is in they can't avoid it.

Problem I'm having is to say to myself if they can really handle another cycle of Apple this year. I don't want to say it's too little too late. I just don't feel that way. At the same time it sure as hell seems like the Mountain they need to climb is just growing exponentially the longer it takes for them to get everything out.

You guys are pretty misguided on guessing what Microsoft thinks here. Why would anyone consider a Windows 8 tablet over an iPad 3 at this point? One will be on the market probably 6 months before the other.


The purpose of the ARM blog post was to answer a lot of questions that people who already blog about Windows 8 wanted to know. I don't know how you could think that its purpose was a marketing tool to get people excited about Windows 8.

My point is everything is so ecosystem driven these days that I agree with you why would anyone buy a Win 8 tablet over an iPad 3? The problem is in the scenario Apple is ALWAYS ahead. Why would iPad owners ever switch if the iPad keeps on delivering? Plus it will have the mind share so I just get this feeling that it'll get shafted no matter how well the product is once it's out. I really like my WP7 device, but even after it's out Apple just keep delivering. That's where people seem to keep going.

I'm just racking my brain on how MS ever breaks this current cycle they are struggling against. I don't have an answer, and I hate when I can't think of one.

 

[dLMN8R]

It's absolutely taken way too long, but to come from where Microsoft was, it had to take this long. 2-3 years ago when it was clear the iPad was a threat, rushing out something to compete just wouldn't have worked.

The marketing for Windows Phone has fucking sucked, and there was definitely a lot that could have been done to drive its adoption in the meantime, but at this point in time, it'll unfortunately have to be Windows 8 + Windows Phone 8 that truly enable Microsoft to compete.

 

[VanMardigan]

What problem does WP8 solve that will help it succeed where this version has not? I don't think dual cores and high res screens will drive adoption. Nobody I know has told me they aren't buying windows phone because it's missing those things.

It needs more, better looking devices on all carriers, like Android has. Nokia will help, but not having a new phone on Sprint and Verizon for the last year is a major fail.

 

[Sean]

I don't think there's a good time for Microsoft to announce WOA. Doing it before the iPad event will give them a few days of press before everyone forgets about it because of the ramped up iPad rumors. Doing it after the event will give them a few days of press before everyone forgets about it because of all the iPad launch hysteria.

I mean, I can sort of understand the argument about having people mention Microsoft's tablet strategy. I just don't think anyone cares because it's really just vapor.

Realistically there's nothing Microsoft can do that would derail the iPad 3 hype train. But getting their name out there in advance surely couldn't hurt.

If they can convince even a tiny percentage of potential iPad customers to delay their purchase a few months, that's better than doing nothing.

 

[SeanR1221]

Good discussion in here.

I'm really not sure how MS can handle the iPad 3. I'm already hyped for it and nothing is announced. Also, Apple makes it very clear how buying into the ecosystem is beneficial. However, with windows, Xbox, WP7...sure they look similar but how is the ecosystem integrated.

 

[dream]

I'm just racking my brain on how MS ever breaks this current cycle they are struggling against. I don't have an answer, and I hate when I can't think of one.

I always thought Win32 compatibility would have helped. Not that anyone would actually want to use legacy apps on a tablet, but it would have given Microsoft an opportunity to say "look, we're preserving your investment in apps and there's nothing new to learn."

 

[AstroNut325]

So I got my wife and my mom a Nokia 710. They love it. Both were dead set on getting an iPhone. But they feel satisfied with the 710. Two major gripes:

1. Native pandora app. The WP streaming solutions lack sufficient foreign music.

2. Siri. That is the single biggest thing my wife and my mom want. I tried Ask Ziggy but doesn't even hold a candle to Siri.

 

[My Sedatives]

So I got my wife and my mom a Nokia 710. They love it. Both were dead set on getting an iPhone. But they feel satisfied with the 710. Two major gripes:

1. Native pandora app. The WP streaming solutions lack sufficient foreign music.

2. Siri. That is the single biggest thing my wife and my mom want. I tried Ask Ziggy but doesn't even hold a candle to Siri.

Hold down the windows key, and Microsoft Tell me pops up, you can open apps, dictate text messages, search... blah blah.

Then you have I heart radio, tune in radio, and you can always get a zune pass for your wife and mom and they can use it on their both phones. Lots of foriegn music on the market place. I think 1yr is $99 bucks up to 3 or 5 devices, I can't remember.

(TuneIn is actually really nice, lots of foreign stations)

 

[dLMN8R]

What problem does WP8 solve that will help it succeed where this version has not? I don't think dual cores and high res screens will drive adoption. Nobody I know has told me they aren't buying windows phone because it's missing those things.

It needs more, better looking devices on all carriers, like Android has. Nokia will help, but not having a new phone on Sprint and Verizon for the last year is a major fail.

I don't think it's the features on the phone, but rather that I think Windows 8 will eventually drive people to get Windows Phone.

 

[thirty]

So I got my wife and my mom a Nokia 710. They love it. Both were dead set on getting an iPhone. But they feel satisfied with the 710. Two major gripes:

1. Native pandora app. The WP streaming solutions lack sufficient foreign music.

2. Siri. That is the single biggest thing my wife and my mom want. I tried Ask Ziggy but doesn't even hold a candle to Siri.

metro radio app accesses your Pandora account.

 

[antiquegamer]

I think they need a real product that is shipping somewhat soon if they're going to announce anything.

For once I agree with you.

This has always been problem but the reason is because unlike Apple, Microsoft do not control the hardware side. There are more hands in Microsoft pie than Apple. Apple control all aspect of their hardware and software and to large extend even 3rd party stuff.

They can't announce stuff while their "partners" might not be ready to ship products. Until we have Microsoft branded computer / tablet then this will alway be problem with Microsoft. They don't have this problem with Xbox because they control all aspect of that eco-system.

 

[Rourkey]

My friend has just got the Lumia 800 and downloaded the official Twiiter app, she has just sent a text asking if she can change the picture upload service to twitpic from skydrive, is there?

Also is there any better twitter apps for her to try?

Thanks

 

[derFeef]

My friend has just got the Lumia 800 and downloaded the official Twiiter app, she has just sent a text asking if she can change the picture upload service to twitpic from skydrive, is there?

Also is there any better twitter apps for her to try?

Thanks

I use mehdoh as twitter client, I like it much more.

 

[Ghost]

mehdoh is good but no longer supported

Carbon is the new hot twitter app and does what you're looking for.

 

[derFeef]

mehdoh is good but no longer supported

Carbon is the new hot twitter app and does what you're looking for.

That is wrong, unless I missed something in the dev's blog. 2.0 of mehdoh is on it's way.

 

[Ghost]

Oh you're right sorry I didn't realise he changed his mind.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I don't think it's the features on the phone, but rather that I think Windows 8 will eventually drive people to get Windows Phone.

I don't know how this is possible. Windows 8 for phones/tablets won't run any classic desktop apps which are compiled for x86. It looks like Windows, smells like Windows, quacks like Windows, but doesn't actually run any apps for desktop Windows.

Also, the Windows brand doesn't exactly have the best public image, which is one reason people don't seem to be interested in WP7. If anything, the name Windows is holding MS back in the mobile space now and could even be abandoned if MS had any brand names they could replace it with. An Xbox Phone would have a better chance of succeeding than a Windows Phone at this point.

 

[Rourkey]

Thanks ghost and derfeef, i'll tell her to try them instead

 

[Pachimari]

If a pink Nokia Lumia 900 with Skype comes to Europe, then I'm on the WP7 bandwagon as well. I love the design!

 

[lastflowers]

I use Rowi, but I head mehdoh and Carbine are where its at.

 

[Vanillalite]

I was using the built in Twitter Feed in People + the Twitter App for a long time. After asking about this very question a few weeks ago I finally switched to Mehdoh. I'd recommend it because it's pretty full featured, a mango app, and it's totally free. I heard Rowi is good, but the free version is ad supported. So I just went with Mehdow instead.

PS: Only problem I have with Mehdoh is the notification system is slow as funk. Get a tweet, and then you get a notification about said tweet like an hour later. It sucks.

 

[Rourkey]

I was using the built in Twitter Feed in People + the Twitter App for a long time. After asking about this very question a few weeks ago I finally switched to Mehdoh. I'd recommend it because it's pretty full featured, a mango app, and it's totally free. I heard Rowi is good, but the free version is ad supported. So I just went with Mehdow instead.

PS: Only problem I have with Mehdoh is the notification system is slow as funk. Get a tweet, and then you get a notification about said tweet like an hour later. It sucks.

cheers, this girl is a seriously addicted twitterer I think an hour delayed notification will be a deal breaker!

 

[Vanillalite]

cheers, this girl is a seriously addicted twitterer I think an hour delayed notification will be a deal breaker!

Eh they all come up. If she just checks the app she'll see if she has new tweets or not. It's just the system notification thing that is slow to ME.

 

[derFeef]

I was using the built in Twitter Feed in People + the Twitter App for a long time. After asking about this very question a few weeks ago I finally switched to Mehdoh. I'd recommend it because it's pretty full featured, a mango app, and it's totally free. I heard Rowi is good, but the free version is ad supported. So I just went with Mehdow instead.

PS: Only problem I have with Mehdoh is the notification system is slow as funk. Get a tweet, and then you get a notification about said tweet like an hour later. It sucks.

I does not have push (which app does?), it only checks every 30 minutes for mentions and DM's and then put's it on the LiveTile.
The app itself refreshes new tweets fast if you open it. And it's very clean, fun to read.

 

[Vanillalite]

I does not have push (which app does?), it only checks every 30 minutes for mentions and DM's and then put's it on the LiveTile.
The app itself refreshes new tweets fast if you open it. And it's very clean, fun to read.

I get a notification ala a text that appears in a blue bar at the top that says I have a new tweet mention or something. Whatever you want to call that, it's that thing that seems way behind to me.

 

[derFeef]

I get a notification ala a text that appears in a blue bar at the top that says I have a new tweet mention or something. Whatever you want to call that, it's that thing that seems way behind to me.

Yeah that's the toast notification, I have turned those off wherever I can - I don't like that personally. Live Tiles are where it's at

 

[Troll]

converted two more people to WP. Good stuff.

 

[Vanillalite]

Yeah that's the toast notification, I have turned those off wherever I can - I don't like that personally. Live Tiles are where it's at

Live tiles don't help when your phone is locked and in your pocket though. That's why I'd like toast notifications if they would be more well timely.

 

[venne]

If WOA can do SMS and Voice (skype is enough), I won't bother with WP8 at all. In fact I won't have a cell phone, period.

After using a smartphone for a while (HP Veer and Samsung Focus) and watching my wife use one (iPhone 3G and Samsung Focus) for years; I've come to the conclusion that they're fundamentally flawed devices.

I simply hate the form factor. Too bulky to be a good phone; too cramped to be a good computer. It seems that computer functionality is winning over voice. I think that's why we've seen a race to get bigger screens on these devices. Instead of a phone that can act as a computer, I'd rather have a computer that can act as a phone. Instead of WP7 office apps, I'd rather have Office 15 on WOA.

Give me a 7" WOA device with a digitizer stylus for One Note and perhaps a BT headset and I'll leave the cellular phone scene for good.

 

[brotkasten]

If WOA can do SMS and Voice (skype is enough), I won't bother with WP8 at all. In fact I won't have a cell phone, period.

After using a smartphone for a while (HP Veer and Samsung Focus) and watching my wife use one (iPhone 3G and Samsung Focus) for years; I've come to the conclusion that they're fundamentally flawed devices.

I simply hate the form factor. Too bulky to be a good phone; too cramped to be a good computer. It seems that computer functionality is winning over voice. I think that's why we've seen a race to get bigger screens on these devices. Instead of a phone that can act as a computer, I'd rather have a computer that can act as a phone. Instead of WP7 office apps, I'd rather have Office 15 on WOA.

Give me a 7" WOA device with a digitizer stylus for One Note and perhaps a BT headset and I'll leave the cellular phone scene for good.

Always reminds me of

 

[SCHUEY F1]

Always reminds me of

:lol

 

[jagowar]

If WOA can do SMS and Voice (skype is enough), I won't bother with WP8 at all. In fact I won't have a cell phone, period.

After using a smartphone for a while (HP Veer and Samsung Focus) and watching my wife use one (iPhone 3G and Samsung Focus) for years; I've come to the conclusion that they're fundamentally flawed devices.

I simply hate the form factor. Too bulky to be a good phone; too cramped to be a good computer. It seems that computer functionality is winning over voice. I think that's why we've seen a race to get bigger screens on these devices. Instead of a phone that can act as a computer, I'd rather have a computer that can act as a phone. Instead of WP7 office apps, I'd rather have Office 15 on WOA.

Give me a 7" WOA device with a digitizer stylus for One Note and perhaps a BT headset and I'll leave the cellular phone scene for good.

I agree with you but the it can't be bigger than the galaxy note size for me.... I am really hoping skype will be integrated into w8 and they will let nokia put out a 5 inch "tablet".

I have been testing skype as a stand alone phone (at home) and it has been excellent so far.... no real issues with it not taking calls or call quality compared to my cell phone. The question will be if the integration will be good enough in windows 8 (or even windows phone 8 if they will let me buy a data only package and a unlocked device)

 

[Pachimari]

I want a Nokia Lumia 800 with a front facing camera and Skype integrated like in Apollo. Lumia 900 sadly isn't the answer No pink and it's bigger both in size and screen. Hopefully Nokia have something awesome for Apollo.

 

[Complex Shadow]

Always reminds me of

http://i.imgur.com/6ivAK.jpg

we need to go bigger

 

[SCHUEY F1]

I want a Nokia Lumia 800 with a front facing camera and Skype integrated like in Apollo. Lumia 900 sadly isn't the answer No pink and it's bigger both in size and screen. Hopefully Nokia have something awesome for Apollo.

I would think there would be a pink 900 announced soon. I prefer the size of 800 as well.

 

[Milchjon]

converted two more people to WP. Good stuff.

Haha, yeah, when people actually get to see it, it's pretty well received.

I have one friend who's a hardcore Apple fanboy, and he's seriously jealous of my Lumia 800.

Another girl that I just showed some stuff was like "Huh, isn't that all a lot better than on my iPhone?!?" (Although I think she only has a 3GS or something)

 

[Complex Shadow]

I would think there would be a pink 900 announced soon. I prefer the size of 800 as well.

I like the size of the 900 more. I just wish itcame in white.

 

[Complex Shadow]

Haha, yeah, when people actually get to see it, it's pretty well received.

I have one friend who's a hardcore Apple fanboy, and he's seriously jealous of my Lumia 800.

Another girl that I just showed some stuff was like "Huh, isn't that all a lot better than on my iPhone?!?" (Although I think she only has a 3GS or something)

Yea both 3g and 3gs are bad by today's standard

 

[VanMardigan]

If WOA can do SMS and Voice (skype is enough), I won't bother with WP8 at all. In fact I won't have a cell phone, period.

I don't know if I'm ready to abandon a cell phone yet. I'd kinda see going feature phone/tablet combo, but cell phone free seems too far off for me. Even if skype works well on a 3G tablet, its not like everyone you want to call has access to skype 24/7.

 

[Steelyuhas]

I don't know if I'm ready to abandon a cell phone yet. I'd kinda see going feature phone/tablet combo, but cell phone free seems too far off for me. Even if skype works well on a 3G tablet, its not like everyone you want to call has access to skype 24/7.

I'm certainly not thinking about ditching a cell phone at this point, but the prospect of a messaging app on Windows 8 that I can hopefully sync with my WP is pretty fucking sweet.

 

[kehs]

If WOA can do SMS and Voice (skype is enough), I won't bother with WP8 at all. In fact I won't have a cell phone, period.

After using a smartphone for a while (HP Veer and Samsung Focus) and watching my wife use one (iPhone 3G and Samsung Focus) for years; I've come to the conclusion that they're fundamentally flawed devices.

I simply hate the form factor. Too bulky to be a good phone; too cramped to be a good computer. It seems that computer functionality is winning over voice. I think that's why we've seen a race to get bigger screens on these devices. Instead of a phone that can act as a computer, I'd rather have a computer that can act as a phone. Instead of WP7 office apps, I'd rather have Office 15 on WOA.

Give me a 7" WOA device with a digitizer stylus for One Note and perhaps a BT headset and I'll leave the cellular phone scene for good.

You need a padfone.

 

[brotkasten]

I'm certainly not thinking about ditching a cell phone at this point, but the prospect of a messaging app on Windows 8 that I can hopefully sync with my WP is pretty fucking sweet.

That "sync" part is really annoying right now. Even though I can be online at the phone and PC at the same time, the messages won't sync. When someone writes me on Facebook or WLM and the window isn't active, I get the message on both, PC and phone, but as soon as I start to write, it won't log on both devices anymore. I can see how it could drain the battery, but at least an option to sync chat logs would be really nice.

You need a padfone.

We all do.